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The Misunderstood Renault LeCar
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who ever heard of having to retorque head bolts on a brand new car?
The Renault was fun, especially with the sunroof open on a pleasant day and the Peugeot was simply the most sturdy car I have ever owned.
Having good luck with a LeCar is by far the exception to the rule.
It is fair to say that both Renault and Peugeot sold vehicles in the USA that had only a small following (the Alliance an exception). The Peugeot's for the most part were not inexpensive and by europe's standards of the time (the models we got) were executive class vehicles. The 304 sold only 2 years here, 1971-1972?, was an attempt by Peugeot to move down market (slightly) but was caught with poor assembly, a odd shift linkage and no parts support. The 504-505-604 and others were better built, but also suffered from people who did not understand how to market the vehicles, service and parts support that was poor and vehicles that could not possibly sell in Peoria! Renault suffered the same faults, but by the time the end came in 1987, they only had the Alliance to sell, so as the Alliance went, so did American Motors/Renault. But, to get back to the issue of the Le Car, yes, they did blow headgaskets, but those of us like myself, understood the vehicle and I installed a backup thermal switch using a old add on smog device with a thermal switch in the radiator hose. This way, hopefully, if the main thermal switch for radiator fan quit, the secondary one would take over. And, I might point out, that some of the overheating that took place in the Renaults and Peugeot are a result of coolant changes. If the cooling system was not properly bleed, it could develop a air block and the engince at some point would probably overheat. So, if either of the companies return to the USA market, I welcome them, but I hope that both the owners of these vehicles and the companies understand the type of care and maintenance that these vehicles require.
Any car imported into the US had better be free of complicated maintenance practices.
The camshafts last about 40,000 miles as I recall.
You're correct in stating that Americans can't or won't adhere to unusual repair/maintenance practices by and large. However, these days with the information highway making information easily available, the market today is different than when Renault/Peugot were selling vehicles here. If the target market of the vehicles is done correctly and aimed at the right audience, both Renault and Peugot should be able to sell 15-35k vehicles a year without too much difficulty.
The key is to have the right support in parts and service to deal with the vehicles. If KIA can do this from ground zero start, then anyone can!! By the way, both Renault and Peugot sell some pretty darn good vehicles in Europe these days...I driven a few of them over the last several years on vacations there...
Now about the PRV V-6 motor: The PRV v-6 motor at first was a camshaft eater; I worked in a Volvo dealer when they were new. We cut holes in the firewall to replace the camshafts and installed rubber plugs, so that we didn't have remove the motor to replace them. This proceedure was only done when the vehicle was under warranty!!! The problem stemed from the camshafts being made of a low grade cast iron and higher forces required to open the valves than originally designed. The fix didn't come till a few years later when a flame hardened camshaft was used. By that time, the engine had a well deserved reputation for camshaft and headgasket concerns. However, development on the motor continued and last of the PRV motors used on vehicles here in the USA models ( Eagles) made it a pretty good motor. The cylinder head, block and gasket design were changed, and this coupled with the newer flame hardened camshafts made them a pretty good motor by and large...too bad the electronic automatic transmission was such a dog....But that's another story.
My main source of skepticism for Renault/Peugeot ever being successful here is twofold:
1. They have to live down an awful reputation in the US.
2. If they use a French management team instead of American, (service, sales, etc), like they insisted upon last time, they will fail again.
Afla Romeo and Maserati, on the other hand, did not burn hundreds of thousands of buyers, like Renault, Peugeot, Fiat and Lotus did collectively. So Alfa and Maserati have a chance. Also they enjoy more prestige in American eyes.
I think that the days of the old Renault and Peugeot are over.
First of all, both companies have enjoyed several years of gaining market share and profits in Europe. Second, Renault has been handily repsonsible for Nissan's turnaround, and Nissan can teach Renault all it needs to know about marketing in the US. Peugeot has some of the most reliable non-premium cars according to long-term JD Power reports in Europe. Their cars regularly win COTY awards, and their partnership with Toyota leads me to believe that the products they will bring here are going to be reliable, somewhere below Toyota but above Mazda in terms of reliability.
The next 406, the 407, is reportedly going to be Passat-sized and looks to be a promising entry-lux kind of midsized car for the US market, if they choose to market it.
Besides, it's an already overcrowded marketplace.
If a small market like the UK can sell everything from Toyota to Tata to Rover to Renault, why can't the US? The UK has far more brands than the US and these companies manage to stay there.
My advice...if you aren't already here, don't come! Try Asia and Africa.
Let's get rid of Daewoo and Suzuki!
A long time ago, in another forum, I wondered (out loud) how Daewoo ever expected to be able to survive in this marketplace.
Another "me too" entry into a marketplace already leary of anything from Korea.
I guess they are barely hanging on at this point?
You are obviously a Renaissance man in your neighborhood!
http://carview.msn.co.uk/mvip/trims/RENLAG0223.asp
I thought I said "truly beautiful" not "frog-cute". C'mon you can do better than a Dauphine as an example of French styling. Remember, this is going into the next Voyager satellite. You want aliens to think the Dauphine is the best of France?
In 2000 the Laguna II was introduced and became larger. The Vel Satis will be introduced late 2002, so this will effectively be the next Safrane.
The Vel Satis is
http://www.clubdelahaye.com/accueilclubUK.html
I guess the French didn't get seriously weird until the '50s, just in time to crack the American market. Was this more of De Gaulle's mischief?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Does anyone remember another Renault that was sold in the US the same time as the Dauphine?
I know there was a cheaper (and even uglier) Renault sold at the same time. A four door sedan that was cheap beyond belief. What was it called?
I sure don't remember.
Actually the 4CV is a minor collectible and the convertible version is worth a lot more than a Dauphine. But I agree, the Dauphine is cuter. The 4CV was actually a fairly competent car by 1960s Renault standards (which aren't very high).
I'm pretty sure most French perceive Renault as the cheap car and Citroen as a step up and Peugeot a step up from that. Chevy-Buick-Cadillac. I drove some new Renaults in the mid 1990s, which was my last experience with the cars. They drove very well but I was very unimpressed with the quality of the car. I thought the Japanese would kill them in a free market.
I always thought Citroens were kind of exotic and upscale, mainly because when I think of Citroen I think of those "French Pastry" style cars they used to have. Like the one Chevy Chase wedged in a tunnel in "National Lampoon's European Vacation" ;-) I just figured something like that would be upscale from a boxy Peugeot.
Yes, the little boxy Renault was the R4, you are right! And it was a sturdy little car I am told, a fairly conventional, old-fashioned design.
In America, too the Peugeot was considered nicer. The 505 was definitely executive class, whereas Renault had nothing but econoboxes until the Medallion, which was a quirky nightmare and a half. At least the 505 had a sort of mainstream feel to it.
In Europe, the cars "hierarchy" is something like:
1. Mercedes, Jaguar
2. BMW, Audi, Saab, Volvo
3. VW, Renault, Peugeot, Alfa
4. Opel, Ford, Fiat, Seat, Citroen, Toyota, Honda, Nissan
5. Skoda, Daewoo, Hyundai, Daihatsu
The warranty of all the european makes is only of one year in france (except alfa, 2 years. They had such a reputation of poor reliability that they had to extend their warranty)
Japanese, Korean and east European brands offer 2 or 3 years.