Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

c_hunter

Agree with the others -- there is a leak in the intake plumbing. Check the whole path and see if one of the joints or seals is loose.

CRaig

mrk610

I have a 02 obw with 45 k miles on it . Within the last 1k mies the tires have gotten progressivly noiser and I noticed some hydroplanning at highway speeds . The tires look to have a lot of tread left on them . I have noticed that they are also starting to dry rot around the outer tread . I know the tire question has been asked many times . I'm undecided but I'm looking at the conti extreme contact, new goodyear triple tread ,and the turanzo L-H . Tire rack also has a new bridgestone tire that looks promising (potenza G009).
Any comments . On a other note I got the expansion valve replaced on my A/C and what a difference 50% better cooling. My a/c was making a fog horn like noise upon accelerating .

Mike k in Humid South Jersey .

mikenk

My wife's 2001 VDC Outback is nearing 30k miles. I noticed my dealer schedule says to change the transmission fluid but my manual says just to inspect it. I had switched to Redline synthetic early (<5k)and have had no hint of problems and see no logic to change it.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mike

c_hunter

Dealers like to pad the service to make more money. I would stick to excactly what's in the owner's manual.

Craig

litespeed4

I will check that. Please excuse my ignorance, but what is "CEL HTH"?

Thanks

vetmats

Thanks for the responses to my bird etching problem.
I rubbed over the area with some scratch-out and then applied two coats of Meguair's (sp?) polish and wax.
That seems to have helped a lot, the etching is only visible in certain lighting conditions and angles now.
I also bought some detailing mist and a microfiber cloth to keep in my car!

ozman62

CEL = Check Engine Light
HTH = Hope This Helps
Owen

justin

still looking at Subies. looked at an Impreza wagon, a Forester, and I am now also considering a 2004 Legacy Wagon 35th Anniv edition. i like that it has more backseat room than the Impreza, but isn't "jacked up" looking like the Forester. with those sporty wheels, it looks quite nice.

anyway, same question as always:

2004 Legacy automatic a good idea? known problems? MSN says that 02 models had CEL and charcoal cannister problems - are those squared away for 2004? are the AWD units on the automatic models hearty and fairly maintenance free?

thanks!

oh, how is the brake rotor quality? do they warp easily like my current Accord? (HATE IT)

ladywclass

someone else can reply to your questions .. just commenting that I also began looking at the smaller Subarus (Forester) but grew to like the Outback wagon ... I particularly liked what I consider the more usable cargo area, and the comfort of a 'car' .... good luck with your shopping!

rdeschene

I was wondering how accurate the intellichoice.com ownership cost figures are in the experience of actual Legacy owners here ?

Over the first 5 years of ownership they estimate the maintenance cost to average $478/year and repairs $98/year.

I ask because their figures for my Oldsmobile Alero are pretty far off my own experience, so I wonder if this inaccuracy is endemic or just model or case specific.

stever

Check out our True Cost to Own tool too. Can't have too many reference points :-)

Steve, Host

rdeschene

I didn't realize Edmunds also has this type of info.

It would seem that there's a fair bit of variability in these estimates as well, as Edmunds' 5 year average works out to $693/year for maintenance and $152/year for repairs.

As you said, it's good to have multiple source of information.

michaelpsu

Hello all....

My '02 GT Limited just hit 48k, and I decided to do some minor maintenance on my own. Sort of a thank you to the Subee for two great years of driving! Last weekend I replaced the air filter...very easy job. I also decided to tackle the spark plugs myself. I was still running the originals. Actually was an easy $8 job...only took about 40 minutes. Now I would like to put on all new brake pads...the dealer told me at the 45K oil change that they were getting close to replacement time.

Can anyone make any suggestions on QUALITY pads that I should use? I am currenly on the second set of OEM's on this car...they were so noisy and seemed to wear out quickly. I was also thinking of upgrading to cross drilled rotors too. Any suggestions there? Or should I just stick to OEM? Any help would be appreciated.

The next trip to the dealer I think I will break down and get the trans and coolant systems flushed...just in case. I am debating if I want to keep this car another two years until it is paid off...or trade it on a '05 2.5i Limited! Ugh...I should never drive onto a dealer's lot. LOL

ateixeira

I've had my Forester for 6 years, and I've spent very little on maintenance because I did it all myself (even the 60k service), and repairs? $0.

AWD is sealed and maintenance-free. The only thing you have to do beyond your boring generic FWD car is the rear diffy, and that's cheap and very, very easy to do. 2 bolts, easier than changing your oil.

Call 800-SUBARU3 about that re-paint. At this stage, it'll be a stretch for them to cover it. There is no way to prove it was repainted before you bought it, and of course noone noticed for several years. That might fall outside of their statute of limitations, if you follow.

Etching? Maybe wet sanding would help? Might need a new paint job though.

Intake noise - check if the snorkus, or intake silencer, is loose. That'll create a lot of intake noise.

-juice

dop50

Just purchased a trailer hitch for my '02 Subaru Legacy GT wagon. I ordered the hitch from a dealer about 100 miles away (the nearest one). In the instructions it talks about a 6 pin connector (on the car) which I am having a little trouble finding.

Does anywone know if I need to remove the inner side panel to get to it? If so, what's the easiest way to go about that?

(This is in the Legacy/Outback instructions for the wiring harness.) How can I tell if this car is an "Outback" model?

Thanks in advance,

Ken

ateixeira

The Outback is pre-wired, but the Legacy doesn't come with that, so the harness you are looking for does not exist.

I'm sure you can splice into the wiring for the taillights to accomplish that, just be very careful when you do.

-juice

senturi1

I took my wife's '02 OBW in for routine oil change. I noticed that the A/C wasn't as cold as it should be. I had Subaru check the A/C temperature. Subaru measured the A/C coming out of the vents at 45 degrees. They reported the A/C as GOOD. I was told that if the A/C temp was around 52 degrees, then they would test the unit. What is the A/C temp range on this car?

thanks.
senturi

ateixeira

Dunno about you but I'm comfortable at about 70 degrees. ;o)

-juice

dop50

Juice, I called the dealer after your reply, they assured me there is a plug. I still cannot find it, short of trearing the whole side out of the car. At this point I don't care if there is one or not. I asked for a price to install it, they said $80. So, I'm on the road tomorrow. Thanks anyway for your input, maybe I'll watch them, and see if they plug in the harness or splice it. BTW, I found lots of plugs, but they all have stuff plugged into them.

Ken

ateixeira

On my Forester it was in the spare tire well, if you want to look there.

You plug in the harness and run it down out of the bottom of the spare tire well. I removed the OE grommet and they supply a new one with the hitch wiring harness that replaces it.

It's sealed nicely because 6 years later not a drop of water is inside.

-juice

dop50

Well, low and behold, there apparently is no wire plug on a 2002 or 2003 Legacy GT wagon. All the wiring schematics show one, the instructions for the hitch show one, guess it's one of those cases where somebody forgot something. Hehe! We had as many as 4 mechanics looking for it, they even called technical support who said it was there somewhere. After 4 hrs, they finally got it spliced into the system. I don't have my trailer here to try it, so all I can do is hope it's right. They couldn't find one on a 2003 thay had on the lot either. Hehe.

Juice, put another feather in your cap for this one!

Ken

krzyss

removing one from Subaru and putting it on Juice's.

Krzys

dop50

Maybe take 5 away from Subaru, that's at least how many actually said it was there.

Ken

stownson

I recently bought a new 2005 Outback 2.5i and am pleased overall with the car but am very upset about the poor (marginal) rating of the just released side impact crash test. It seems that there is a problem with the side airbags not performing well. I am aware that Subaru frequently monitors this site and hope that a response is forthcoming. I have talked to their customer service center and they are well aware of the controversy but have no corrective action planned at this time. My desire is for a recall to correct the poorly performing side airbags. Both the dealer and the Subaru literature highly touted the new Legacy's safety design but it has much worse results than my 2003 Forester which doesn't even have curtain bags. I probably would not have bought this car if these test results had been available to me before the purchase and am sure that they will lose some future sales.

c_hunter

Well, a different side impact test performed in Australia gave the Legacy top scores. My take is that the Legacy may not perform great in an accident situation that mirrors the IIHS test, but it clearly performs great in another side impact accident situation. Since there are a near infinite range of accident scenarios, it's hard to say if any one test is relevant to real life, but I am not worried about the Legacy. Now if 4-5 different side impact tests all showed it to be a bad performer, I might get skeptical, but so far we have one "excellent" and one "marginal".

Also, your Outback may perform better in the IIHS test because of the extra ground clearance. SInce IIHS uses an impact ram equivalent to a large SUV, I would expect the Outback to do better than the Legacy because the floor is higher and more in the line of impact (to absorb energy).

Anyway, don't give up hope yet. While I am not thrilled by the IIHS results, I still love my new Outback XT and would not want to give it up at this point.

Craig

dop50

I too, am looking at a new 2005 Outback. I currently have an '02 Legacy GT wagon and a '02 WRX sedan. I understand your concern, especially if you have little ones.
But judging by some of the recalls we have had on the two we have, I can't believe Subaru wouldn't do whatever they can to fix the problem. It may take a little time as does anything of this nature, but I'm sure they will do a lot of testing and correct anything that would be a safety issue. I am positive you will have a better result than you would get from the BIG 3.

That's just my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth.
I know it doesn't fix the problem, but maybe you can sleep a little better hearing from someone who thinks Subaru has a pretty good product and believes they will stand behind it.

Even with my trailer hitch issue, I still think they do a pretty good job! I've seen a LOT worse!

Ken

grahampeters

G'day

You might like to have a look at the results from the Australian testing that put the Liberty/Outback as the highest rated tested vehicle ever.

http://motoring.racv.com.au/racvm/whichcar/bestbuysarticle.cfm?ID- =E338BD55-8265-42B4-8C6C0F440967D981

Cheers

Graham

stownson

Thanks for the info on the Australian test. Hopefully the US version has the same airbag design.

rickter

I have a '96 Outback wagon which recently has had intermittent hard starts. It happens when the engine is COLD. The engine turns over fine, with no 'hiccups' like it is trying to start. I did notice a prelude of 2-3 extended cranking starts before it just quit... It was dark, so I could't do much with the car until the next morning, when it started PERFECTLY. Since then it started fine for about 5 days and I'm seeing the same hard start symtoms...

Also: THERE ARE NO ENGINE CODES. The light never came on, but I checked it anyway... nothing.

I just had my 60k service about 6 months ago (new plugs, wires, fuel filter, etc), and about 3 months ago I replaced the crankshaft sensor to fix a different starting problem.

Any ideas?

-Thanks!

ateixeira

Glad my advice was accurate, Ken.

stownsom: yours is an Outback, so I would go with the Aussies test scores as a reference for you. The IIHS tested a Legacy.

Maybe that's why the results were so different? Even then I'd expect similar results.

-juice

ateixeira

You could try an ECU reset. Disconnec the negative battery terminal, then wait 20 minutes, reconnect. Start her up and let her idle until warm.

After the reset the engine will run rich, but that extra fuel may help cold starts.

Just a thought, and it won't cost you anything to try it.

-juice

stever

Wait 3 or 4 seconds after turning the ignition on before cranking it to "prime" the fuel injection system.

Steve, Host

ateixeira

Good point, you should let the fuel system build-up the pressure. It operates at a very high psi.

-juice

bat1161

Question for everyone here. A friend of mine has a 03 base OBW. He only has 5000 miles on it, since he drives 99% within NYC. He has consistently been getting approx. 13 MPG. He had the car at Flemington, but they can find nothing mechanically wrong.

Is anyone getting that bad mileage? Any suggesions, besides mine of driving the car more?

Thanks,
Mark

ateixeira

He managed a whole 13 mpg in NYC? ;-)

But seriously, if you sit still, you're getting 0 mpg. If he idles enough that explains it.

I'd suggest trying to work off-hours, either early or late, to avoid the rush.

I used to do that and it was great, traffic was a breeze. Unfortunately I can't now.

-juice

bat1161

I think it is mostly that he does stop and go in the city, only going a few blocks at a time. He says he has gotten as much as 18 - 20 with mixed driving, mostly highway. The true test will be next week when he drives up to Buffalo. If he is still getting low mileage, I think he should sell the OB and go for the Toyota Prius:-). That would probably suit him better.

Mark

ateixeira

The engine isn't efficient until it's fully warm. Unfortunately it sounds like on most of his trips the engine can't even warm up!

Suggest that he combine errands, maybe.

-juice

ponytrekker

Plus it seems like these cars get BRUTAL mileage on the local errand runs.

ateixeira

I dunno, my worst ever, outside of towing and off road trails, was 20.7 mpg, and I live in DC, with notoriously bad traffic.

My commute is 13 miles each way, though, so at least it's fully warm.

To be honest, gas costs would not be my concern, the exhaust system would. You'll have a lot of unburned liquids in the exhaust if all your drives are that short and the exhaust cannot fully warm up.

-juice

bat1161

Actually the worst mileage I ever had was 16.65, and that was mostly city driving. I can see getting low mileage, it's just 13 seems too low, even for just staying local.

Mark

ateixeira

I really can't complain. My Forester is a 2.5l and averages 25 mpg, the Escort I owned before it was a tiny 1.8l and only averaged 27mpg.

And the Forester is a lot bigger. Both have had basically the same commute.

My Miata manages about 28mpg, but it has an even smaller engine, 1.6l.

So in terms of efficiency for the given displacement, the Forester actualy wins, despite the extra weight and AWD. I can't complain.

-juice

jay_24

We get better with our Chevy Tahoe with a 5.3 V8. It gets about 14 in pure city driving and about 18-19 on the highway. A little worse in the winter. We even got 21mpg on three tanks in a row out in Yellowstone. It must like crusing at 40mph.

My 2001 outback gets 26 to 28 on average. mostly highway miles. I agree it gets BRUTAL mpg when the engine isn't warm. In the winter my average drops to 23-24 for the same driving.

--jay

krzyss

that you have no clue about his commute. How many red lights, left turns etc. One would have to follow this person path to get comparable results.

Krzys

dop50

Tomorrow we will be the proud owners of a new 2005 Outback LL Bean edition. It has the 3.0 L 250 HP engine. Just wondering about what real world gas mileage might be. Sticker says 19/25, does anyone have any experience with these? Not that it matters, really, just curious. Also, I was checking out replacement tires at tire rack for it, seems I'm gonna be stuck with the Bridgestones for a while. I'm kinda disapointed in the number of mfgrs. that make all season tires for this vehicle (225/55/17 V rated), and none of the tires (3) are very well rated in my opinion. Especially on snow. Is there any chance there may be more to choose from later?

Ken

gord7

I had never been particularly happy with the gas mileage from my 2003 Legacy Wagon but have found it varies enormously with different types of driving.

Around the city usually get 11.6 to 12.3 litres per 100Km (20.39 to 18.77 mpg), commute about 23 km each way.

Recently been doing some regular longer runs from Vancouver to Pullman WA, 950 miles over 2 days with air-con on all the time. Also cruise control for much of the time to keep a couple of mph over the limit whilst limiting trooper interest! Result was 8.6 litres per 100km (27.5mpg). The engine was definitely warm on these trips as temps were often in the high 30's Centigrade (high 90's).

No complaints with the car after these trips even after 8 hours plus driving with only the odd comfort stop no aches and pains from the seats, either driver or passenger.

Gordon

ateixeira

And remember, if you're sitting idle, you get 0 mpg! ;-)

Do that enough and it'll kill your average. Unless you have a hybrid that shuts the engine off completely.

I track my mileage on a chart to keep a close eye on it. My peak mileage occurs in fall and spring. In summer, I lose about 1 mpg due to the use of A/C. In winter, I lose 2 mpg, probably due to the winter blend fuels (less energy content) and the cold starts.

-juice

ateixeira

FWIW, what I generally see reported here on Edmunds shows that the automatics do not match the manuals. Manuals tend to get about 1-2mpg better. 23-25 mpg on average, vs. 22-24 or so for the autos.

Funny thing is the EPA has some automatics rated higher.

For the H6 I'd expect to average about 22mpg.

The turbos vary more, if you drive hard you'll get high teens mpg and if you don't you could get mid 20s.

-juice

bkaiser1

There's quite a difference in what constitutes "city" driving. For most people, their city driving takes place in the suburbs, where things are further apart and speed limits are higher. This is a far more efficient scenario than downtown city driving, where trips are much, much shorter and speeds are generally less than 35mph between stops.

Our 04 Accord, which is rated for 26mpg in the city, has seen as low as 17mpg on a tank composed entirely of downtown city driving. Low 20's was common when we lived downtown. Having since moved to the suburbs, the mileage on the Honda averages over 30mpg now, and even my WRX is up to mid-20's.

13mpg is really, really low for an Outback (the lowest my 01 outback ever got was about 17 in pure downtown city driving) but I don't think it's impossible. Ever see the Consumer Reports mpg estimates? They are always WAY lower than the EPA estimates, and quite likely more accurate.

Brian

lfdal

To Brian's point - for the first mile after I leave my house its all 25 mph zones with lots of stop signs. Then maybe a mile or so of 40-35 with several traffic lights. Then 3 miles of all stop and go, occasional spurts of acceleration up to 40, but not for long.

So - its long enough that my car gets warmed up, but also keeps my around town mileage in my Forester XT (automatic) planted at between 14 and 16.5. Supposedly the 05 turbos in the Legacy / Outbacks will do better on mileage. For the owners' sakes I hope so :<)

I prefer a standard myself, but not with the amount of traffic I drive through. I've seen a lot of converts to automatics after their first couple of 2-3 hr traffic jams.

Larry

philliesfan2

I own an 03 Legacy SE Wagon which I purchased in December, 2002. I currently have 46K miles on the original tires. They seem to be holding up better than any other original equipped tires I've ever had. I have them rotated every 6-7K miles (every other oil change).

I'm curious as to how many more miles I can expect to get on these before replacing them. What have been other Legacy owners experience?

The tires on my car are Bridgestone Potenza RE92.

Thanks to all who post in response.

David