Last night. by invitation of my dealer I attended a session sponsored by the Mazda factory with Mazda factory employees doing the session to familiarize the attendees to the RX8.
I wish I could pronounce either of the Mazda representatives, but I can't. Both were Japanese, but both spoke fluent english.
There were about 25 attendees. The event was supposed to be for dealerhsip sales people, but was then opened up to those who either owned an RX8 or had one on order. They had two RX8s that were used to test drive. It started out at the dealership where the Mazda reps explained the features and engineering of the cars in-depth (I never thought the engineering and construction of the hood of a car would be so interesting). Then, it was on to a closed course being transported by several Mazda mini-vans to an old private airstrip and the twisty roads leading to it.
First up were timed straight line acceleration tests. Best I could muster was 0-60 in 5.8 sec (only two runs, first run was done in a flat 6.0 sec). No high RPM clutch dump, no drivetrain abuse. Just a rev to about 3K RPM (at the suggestion of the Mazda rep), let out the clutch and then pedal to the metal. The most timid of the group got a 6.6 sec 0-60.
A couple of us wanted to do top speed runs, but they wouldn't let us (dang).
While I waited for the other participants to complete their run, I asked the Mazda rep about the C&D numbers. As I had heard, C&D and R&T had pre-production versions. Mazda rep said they really weren't planning on getting into a "shoot out" comparison before they had done final production configurations. He also said the engine management settings had not been finalized with the cars the trade rags had, as well as final engine "port" configurations (whatever that means). He said Mazda was pleased that even with pre-production cars, they still showed well in the comparisons. He said to expect all the major trade rags to do another test report in the coming months.
I thought it was strange that I got better numbers than the pros did at C&D. Now I know.
It was then onto the handling tests. Got to say, that was the most fun of the entire seminar. I thought the RX8 was well balanced on the road. You don't realize how well balanced the car is until you get on a closed autox course. The car is smooth and stable in transitions and firmly planted through the turns. At the end of the handling course, there was a long straight away (actually a runway) that you could come blasting out of the last turn. Hearing the 9k revs and the scenery "blur by" was the highlight of the evening at the end of the road course.
I also asked the Mazda rep about why there was mention in the trade rags of the mid-range torque deficiency. I certianly had not felt it. He didn't mention the 350Z by name, but did mention that the test RX8 C&D used in its comparison was tuned for "high speed manuevers" and not the linear torque application that the production versions have. He also mentioned the "heavier" vehicle in the C&D test (again, no mention of the name, but clearly he was talking about the 350Z) was penalized by it's 500lb heavier weight, which more than made up for its torque advantage.
The Mazda reps were a wealth of knowledge of the RX8 as well as its competition.
It sounds like these events are going on now throughout the country as there are more than 50 Mazda reps conducting them.
If you can snag a place at one of these, I highly suggest you do so.
dinu....I have heard of other car companies sponsoring similar events, but this was the first one I participated in. I'd do another one, regardless of the manufaturer.
Other things that I keep remembering from the Mazda rep....
-using Ford engineering or parts....rep said Ford admitted to Mazda they knew ablolutely nothing about rotaries so they left teh RX8 development and manufacturing team to have total control. Although Ford opened the doors for the RX8 team to use any of the parts Ford makes, they didn't find any they could use. So, the RX8 had no help from Ford for development, engineering, assembly or parts sharing. This was a total Mazda effort. I asked about marketing and the Mazda rep said they were disappointed that the vast majority of the money the RX8 team had went into developing and making the car. Very little was left over for marketing. That's why he said you haven't seen much in the way of advertising for the car. He also said that Mazda is so pleased with the car, they were hoping for word-of-mouth to be enough to launch the car (which is why they opened up this event to those outside of the Mazda dealers.
-RX8 carpeting....the rep looked at me a bit quizically when I asked about the quality of the carpet, but said it was chosen from an outside source for its duarbility and wear characteristics. He did admit that it does look different than other cars carpet, but was more durable.
-assembly....rep said that manufacturing/assembly goals were set using the tolerances from the Lexus LS430. He said the plant ran at half speed for the first 700 cars made to make sure they got manufacutring right, which is why the cars were still just trickling into the U.S. now. Mazda expects the U.S. to be its biggest biggest volume buyer followed by the U.K. and then Japan. That was kind of interesting.
-reliability and safety...Mazda expects the RX8 to rank near the top of relibility heap after 24 months of ownership (which he said is the only way to guage how well any car will hold up). He said that Mazda crashed over 100 RX8s and expected it to rank among the best vehicle, either sports car or sedan regarding safety.
-future rotary models....depends on how sales go of the RX8. If they go well, then there could be (no commitment) more variants. No turbos in the foreseeable future.
...Good job. Sounds as if Mazda put more effort into staffing (using engineers conversant - big time - with product) than DC. At a recent event in Sacramento, product knowledge wasn't but a fraction of what you indicate. Again, good job!
"Mazda RX-8 is deal of the decade. If you've ever dreamed of owning a sports coupe but have been put off by the lack of space and the frightening price tag, the Mazda RX-8 could be the answer to your prayers. With world-class build quality, a unique engine, rear-hinged "barn" doors for the backseat passengers and a price of less than £20,000 when it goes on sale in Britain this summer, it's almost too good to be true. It may not be the prettiest, cheapest, fastest or lowest-deprecating car on the market this year but it's difficult to imagine any other matching the overall Mazda RX-8 package which, at this stage of the game, is simply unbeatable.
Many parents steer clear of buying sports cars because they need seats in the back for the kids plus four doors for safety and convenience - and that's exactly what the Mazda RX-8 offers. But what puts most people off is the price. The entry-level Mazda RX-8, however, will cost less than some versions of the humble Ford Mondeo and Vauxhall Vectra repmobiles And any motorists, young or old, who's daunted by the prospect of owning a proper sports car with a hi-tech rotary engine needn't worry - the Mazda RX-8 will be a doddle to drive. The £19,995 version produces just 189bhp, but for £21,995 there's a 238bhp model. And as rotary engines aren't particularly fuel-efficient, expect about 25mpg in average. Another downside is that its predecessor, the Mazda RX-7, depreciated heavily. But the Mazda RX-8 is priced so attractively that demand is bound to out strip supply which should mean the car will hold its value well.
Rivals are now deciding if they can reduce the price of models such as the Audi TT, Alfa GTV and imminent Chrysler Cross-fire and Nissan 350Z which all look grossly overpriced against the Mazda. In fact, they all need to plummet by thousands rather than hundreds if they're to be competitively priced against the little car from Japan. The Mazda RX-8 honestly represents the new car deal of the decade. Frankly, I don't know how the firm from Hiroshima does it for the money."
Dropped my Miata off for the check engine light and faulty fog light recalls this a.m.. The porter escorted me to my courtesy car.
We were heading straight toward three RX-8s and I'm thinking this is just to good to be true. (It was, I missed the little Protege parked behind the 3 RX-8s.)
The RX-8 looks much better than I thought it would. I am a huge fan of the last RX-7. Though I may not buy the yellow one, I think I could get used to this car awfully quick.
If only I could say as much for my Mazda dealer. Such is life.
"The £19,995 version produces just 189bhp, but for £21,995 there's a 238bhp model. And as rotary engines aren't particularly fuel-efficient, expect about 25mpg in average."
Question. Is that crank horsepower? Or rear wheel horsepower?
I wondered about that, too. If it's the same engine configuration as in the U.S., I'll have to assume the 238 number is rear wheel H.P. and the 250 H.P. figure quoted here in the U.S. is crank H.P.
Anyone else receive the R&T special RX-8 edition? Has some great pics and a nice explanation of the rotary along with diagrams. Plus interviews. Nice little book.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Well, what started out as a "car hunt" about 2 months ago finally came to fruition last night.
My dealer called me last night to tell me that the mica red RX8 I ordered was scheduled to hit their store over Labor Day weekend. We started talking about colors because they only had the Red Mica and the Titanium to see when I ordered mine. While "small talking" with the Sales Manager, he said that they just got their August orders in and that the Red, Titanium and "Winning Blue" were his favorite colors. I told him that it was hard to tell from the brochure how the blue would look. Manager said if I wanted to look, to stop by "in the next couple of hours because it's being delivered tonight".
Since the dealer is within 20 minutes from where I live, I decided to check it out.
Got to the dealership and it was sitting right in front, polished, prepped, gleaming, waiting to be delivered. Started talking to the guy standing next to it as I pulled up. He ended up being the guy who ordered it and was just waiting for his financing paperwork to be completed. I told him that I had ordered the red, but liked to blue more since I had seen it in person. After a bit more "chit chat", the Sales Manager came out to get the guy. About 5 minutes later, I see the same guy rushing out of the dealership to his (old) car and drive away. Right behind him was his sales person saying "well, that sucked". Curiosity got the best of me and I asked the sales guy what happened. He said the guy coudln't get financed through the dealership and stormed out. Sales manager comes out, looks at me oggling the car and tells me "this one's available if you want it".
The color is stunning and since I now prefer the blue over the red, I tell him I like the car but I didn't want the NAV system. Sales Manager says "if you really want this color, let me see what I can do". He goes back in the dealership, comes back a couple of minutes later and says "I'll split the dealer cost of the Nav system with you if you take it tonite" (about $1,800). That means I spend about $900 more for the car than the one I originally ordered, but also received about a $900 discount from MSRP.
I don't think I could find a car more fun to drive for $32K (all loaded up).
If I could ever figure out how to post pictures here, I'd show it.
Congrats - I assume you got it. Blue is a very sharp color. Post it here and over on the other forum when you get a chance.
You are going to love the NAV. I got it on my, and although I personally haven't used it yet, since I'm away, my wife has. Everybody that got it has reported nothing but good things about it.
Since theorically you got the Nav for $900, it is quite a deal. And since it is a deal, you are going to love it more.
himiler....thanks! While it doesn't happen often, sometimes I am in the right place at the right time. I also think it helped that the Sales Manager and I struck up a loose friendship while I was shopping for a car. We hit it off. I had seen him around town several times and we've bought each other a beer when we ran into each other at local restaurants. He lives about 2 miles from me.
I had to run home last night from the dealership and grab my checkbook since I wasn't planning on buying a car right then. Sales Manager said they had already "booked" the unit as sold. I don't know how they get paid, but I got the distinct impression that it would not have been a good thing if they had to now subtract a "booked unit". They still made a good profit on the deal and I got the car I wanted at a decent price given the current sales climate for RX8s, although not equipped the exact way I wanted.
Zoomster....it's sitting in my garage right now. Part of the deal was buying it and taking delivery of it last night. I had planned on putting $10k down when my original order came in. So, I gave the sales manager a check for the $10K with the understanding the dealership wouldn't deposit it until Monday afternoon. That'll give me a chance to move some funds into my checking account to cover it. I keep just enough in my checking account to cover monthly expenses and withdrawals. The rest was paid using the "bank draft" from my bank from doing the "pre-approval" through them. It's a local bank so the dealership had no problem accepting it.
Fortunately, I had financing done already through my bank when they told me they expected my original unit would arrive in a couple of weeks. So, that part went smoothly.
"Customer Delivery" dept went through the typical stuff regarding extended warranty, but no pressure.
All in all, a great dealership experience and made some friends along the way.
Since it has been raining here, I thought the car would be slipping and sliding all over the place. If anything, it feels much more stable than my previous sedan with all season tires. I've been looking for excuses all day to run errands....some for no reason at all.
I played with the DVD nav a little. It's neat. I'm not sure how often I will use it, but I've heard that once you have it, you love it. All NAV systems in other cars have had mixed reviews, so we'll see about Mazda's iteration. To me, $900 is a lot to pay for the privilege of not getting lost.
I wish I had some time to do a proper detail job, but it rained all last night and is raining again today. Tomorrow, I may give it a shot.
If anyone knows how to post pics here, please let me know and I'll post some.
I've tried. I've followed the instructions as per Town Hall Help, but to no avail. That's why I just host my pics on my roadrunner alloted space and just link to it. Like this: http://web.tampabay.rr.com/mbarto/images/My_RX-8/
edit...clearly, there's something that doesn't seem to work when I try to post a pic (trying to post a pic from my pictures on my computer....no URL.....
After two days of driving (and 150 miles), I can't see what people are talking about that this car lacks torque. It's torquier than anything I've driven short of a high output V8....tons of pull. Below 3K RPM in 4th gear it can be a bit sow, but it revs so quick above that, there's no noticeable lack of torque. This thing is comfy for a sports car....rides firm but controlled and not at all uncomfortable.
BTW...90% of available torque is available at 3K RPM. I'm having tooo much fun driving this. I spent the day Zainoing my ride. Of course, it started to rain as soon as I got it back in the garage.
Got lost on purpose....NAV is real accurate. I can't upset this car no matter what I do in the twisties.
I'm going to have to take some time off work, just to get the break-in period done with.
Graphic, some of us are used to the tire spinning torque of an old fashioned pushrod American V-8. And the Rx-8, while an awesome car and handler, just isn't built that way. I think that's all it is. OTOH, nothing can beat it on the high end and in the canyon turns.
Truth told, I've owned some V8 muscle from the '60s (wish I still had it....it was a '68 "GOAT"). I've driven recent vintages Mustang GT and Z28, and they trully are head snapping. While I appreciate those who enjoy American V8 muscle, I'm at a loss when people say the RX8 doesn't have enough torque. I was expecting something a bit more "peaky" in its power delivery (ala S2000). That's not the case here.
On aonther note, I've been stopped by two yunguns, both with modded civics to extol the virtues of the car (it certainly wasn't because of me). Also stopped by a middle aged man and his young lady friend while getting gas (and desperately/quickly trying to get home before it rained on the car).
I also had our neighborhood "man in blue" follow me home (no light, no sirens...just "tailing me), all the way into my driveway to inspect the car. Kind of scary at first but untimately complimentary. I told him "I'll stick out like a sore thumb to you guys". He replied, "you never know, you may get warnings for a while".....
I just received the (complimentary) Mazda RX8 book from Mazda. What a nice touch. It's a "coffee table" type book...hardbound with fancy slick paper and full color photos.
Skimming through it, I got about 1/4 of the way through the RX8's development story. Talk about dedicated car people and a dedicated car company, these people are passionate about the car...rejecting some of the "naysayers" from different ranks within Ford to the Mazda R&D people who brought it to market.
Gotta love a car that was developed by car enthusiasts as opposed to bean counters and development by committee.
just goes to show with the all the background work we Edmunds people do, sometimes what really matters is being at the right place at the right time.
I was really floored with the looks of the RX8 when I saw one in person the other day.
If the mechanicals and ride dynamics are what I hear, I think the RX8 has to be included in my short list of possible Miata replacements (my Mazda dealer problems notwithstanding).
Well, I can tell ya, the ride and handling dynamics are phenomenal. I don't think you could roll it if you tried, assuming you don't broadside a curb or something....... Corners like it's on rails.
dinu....the title of the book is simply "RX8". It goes in depth about the development of the engine, chasis, style, suspension, etc.
It also addresses how some at Ford wanted Mazda to be a "volume" vanilla car producer like Toyota and Honda. Then it talks about how the folks at Mazda in Hiroshima and a couple of people at Ford thought that taking away the Rotary would be taking away Mazda's identity then the challenges of bringing a viable rotary sports car to market that people would buy.
I'm only about 1/4 of the way through the book, but glancing at the rest of it, there are also sections describing the rotary development from Dr. Wankel's original design and the cars that used the wankel.
Lots of stuff on the RX7's evolution, too.
Neat book.
logic...no matter what car you're buying, sometimes just being in the right place at the right time conspires to get the car you want at a decent price. No matter how much research we do here at Edmunds and elsewhere, there's no accounting to what motivates a dealer to make a deal one day and not make the same deal the next. For all intents and purposes, buying a car is still a "people" business....finding what motivates the seller as well as the buyer.
Truth be told, my dealership experience in buying the RX8 was the best I've ever had buying any car....that includes a couple of BMWs, too. Although, when I was cross shopping the G35, I must say that the Infiniti dealership was as accomodating as the Mazda dealership. It probably says more about setting the tone by ownership. Both the Infiniti and the Mazda dealership are owned by the same person(s). I had just the opposite experience when looking at a Thuderbird and the 350Z. I got the "sleazy" sales pitches at those places..."this is one hot car....we're selling them over MSRP because they are in demand....you need to buy this car today because they'll be gone by tomorrow" (BTW....both the Thuderburd and the 350Z I was looking at are still sitting on the lots at their respective dealerships).
nvbanker....couldn't agree with you more. The RX8s driving dynamics are phenomenal, whether you talk about acceleration or handling or just "bumper-to-bumper" everyday driving.
All true....if the dealership strives to make buying a car a pleasant experience and understands that the purchase is the 2nd most expensive one you'll make (if you own a house), then it's likely that there won't be any unpleasantness during the entire purchase process.
My dealer was "no pressure". Let me drive the demo for extended periods at multiple times. They were up front on price being MSRP, until I stumbled onto the "winning blue" deal (although, they did mention that they'd sell me anything else on the lot near invoice). Told me how they ordered the units if I was interested. There was none of the "if we do xxxxx, will you buy today" type selling. It as all product knowledge sharing. Their sales people knew their products, too.
Of course, the consumer sometimes asks for confrontational types of experiences. Case in point, when I went in during my 2nd test drive, there was an older gentleman there trying to buy a Tribute. I don't know the specifics of his deal, but I overheard the salesperson acknowledging the invoice figures from the customer and said they would sell the Tribute for a $xxx over that amount and the buyer could keep whatever rebates Mazda offered. The buyer said he knew that there was $xxxxx in holdback that he wanted to negotiate the Mazda holdback.
Instead of playing "cat and mouse", the salesperson politely said that they didn't do business that way. Once the buyer persisted, the salesperson said that while he wanted the buyer's business, he suggested the buyer couldn't get the deal he proposed from the dealership. Buyer was incensed until the sales manager came over and said they probably were not going to be able to do business. The sales manager then nicely thanked the buyer for coming in and offered the guy a "free oil change" coupon and said if he ended up buying the Tribute somewhere else, the dealership would still welcome his service business. Both the Sales Manager and the Salesperson then just walked away. The buyer stood there speechless.
I left seeing the buyer wandering the lot, alone, looking at every sticker on every Tribute they had on the lot. I don't know if they sold the guy a Tribute or not, but I thought to myself "that's a novel way to win a customer's business, even if they don't sell him a car".
quote, "the book can be found on ebay. there is also a silver covered version sent to the dealers on ebay too."
The only reason it is on Ebay is because an owner has decided to part with his one and only copy, or received a duplicate and is now selling it. This book can not be picked up at some book wholeseller to be resold later.
Just finished reading it. It really is a fascinating read, not only for RX8 lovers, but car lovers in general, who want to get insight on how a car gets proposed, then tested, then made.
Book goes into details of how the car was engineered, too.
The most fascinating parts were the struggles the few rotary believers at Mazda convincing the money people at Ford that a clean sheet design (which the RX8 is) was the only way the car was viable. They kept pointing towards the Le Mans win (only Japanese manufacturer that has won Le Mans) with a rotary engine. They had some lofty goals for assembly quality (Lexus was used as the example), vehicle suspension dynamics (BMW was used as the example) and even what the engine should sound like (a turbine).
I spoke to the dealership to see if they had extra books. They said they come straight from Mazda and are not for sale. They are supposed to be for only those people who "order" vehicles. Since I had an order in (although, eventually bought another RX8) I got the book.
Some pretty interesting early design skethes in there, too.
i'm aware of that. i just did a search on ebay for the fun of it to see how many people were selling their copy and sure enough there were.
<The only reason it is on Ebay is because an <owner has decided to part with his one and only <copy, or received a duplicate and is now selling <it. This book can not be picked up at some book <wholeseller to be resold later.
the $65 book is the silver dealer version. i think the book the customer gets has a picture of a red rx-8 on the cover. there is one of them on ebay with a bid of $25. and if you look under completed items several have sold already. regardless i'll be holding onto mine. if my car ever comes in. haha
This talk about displacement brings up a question I've long had about rotaries: How is the displacement measured?
In a typical piston engine, it is fairly straight forward: piston area x length of stroke x # of cylinders. But to measure a rotary the same way, you would have to measure the MAXIMUM volume attained within each of the 3 rotor lobes (maximum volume between rotor and rotor housing) x 3 lobes/rotor x # of rotors. Is this how the displacement is measured? Or do the SAE engineers simply take the total volume within the rotor housing and subtract the volume of the rotor?
This is a sticky question. My quick guess is that the volume is a net result of housing volume minus rotor volume.
BUT...
If the volume in which a piston moves in its power stroke is the displacement (multiplied by however many pistons you have), then a rotary could be considered to displace three times its actual volume, since there is an instance of compression every 1/3 of a revolution.
Suddenly, 1.3 liters becomes 3.9.
It makes sense from a mathematical standpoint, and when you consider that a 4,5,6,8 etc.-cylinder engine has 4,5,6,8 etc. instances of compression per revolution...it holds some water in the technical sense, too.
Then again, displacement is completely unrelated to engine revolutions, so my thinking is probably all wet on this one. Oh, well. I had a late night.
Comments
I wish I could pronounce either of the Mazda representatives, but I can't. Both were Japanese, but both spoke fluent english.
There were about 25 attendees. The event was supposed to be for dealerhsip sales people, but was then opened up to those who either owned an RX8 or had one on order. They had two RX8s that were used to test drive. It started out at the dealership where the Mazda reps explained the features and engineering of the cars in-depth (I never thought the engineering and construction of the hood of a car would be so interesting). Then, it was on to a closed course being transported by several Mazda mini-vans to an old private airstrip and the twisty roads leading to it.
First up were timed straight line acceleration tests. Best I could muster was 0-60 in 5.8 sec (only two runs, first run was done in a flat 6.0 sec). No high RPM clutch dump, no drivetrain abuse. Just a rev to about 3K RPM (at the suggestion of the Mazda rep), let out the clutch and then pedal to the metal. The most timid of the group got a 6.6 sec 0-60.
A couple of us wanted to do top speed runs, but they wouldn't let us (dang).
While I waited for the other participants to complete their run, I asked the Mazda rep about the C&D numbers. As I had heard, C&D and R&T had pre-production versions. Mazda rep said they really weren't planning on getting into a "shoot out" comparison before they had done final production configurations. He also said the engine management settings had not been finalized with the cars the trade rags had, as well as final engine "port" configurations (whatever that means). He said Mazda was pleased that even with pre-production cars, they still showed well in the comparisons. He said to expect all the major trade rags to do another test report in the coming months.
I thought it was strange that I got better numbers than the pros did at C&D. Now I know.
It was then onto the handling tests. Got to say, that was the most fun of the entire seminar. I thought the RX8 was well balanced on the road. You don't realize how well balanced the car is until you get on a closed autox course. The car is smooth and stable in transitions and firmly planted through the turns. At the end of the handling course, there was a long straight away (actually a runway) that you could come blasting out of the last turn. Hearing the 9k revs and the scenery "blur by" was the highlight of the evening at the end of the road course.
I also asked the Mazda rep about why there was mention in the trade rags of the mid-range torque deficiency. I certianly had not felt it. He didn't mention the 350Z by name, but did mention that the test RX8 C&D used in its comparison was tuned for "high speed manuevers" and not the linear torque application that the production versions have. He also mentioned the "heavier" vehicle in the C&D test (again, no mention of the name, but clearly he was talking about the 350Z) was penalized by it's 500lb heavier weight, which more than made up for its torque advantage.
The Mazda reps were a wealth of knowledge of the RX8 as well as its competition.
It sounds like these events are going on now throughout the country as there are more than 50 Mazda reps conducting them.
If you can snag a place at one of these, I highly suggest you do so.
Must have been fun!!!
Dinu
Other things that I keep remembering from the Mazda rep....
-using Ford engineering or parts....rep said Ford admitted to Mazda they knew ablolutely nothing about rotaries so they left teh RX8 development and manufacturing team to have total control. Although Ford opened the doors for the RX8 team to use any of the parts Ford makes, they didn't find any they could use. So, the RX8 had no help from Ford for development, engineering, assembly or parts sharing. This was a total Mazda effort. I asked about marketing and the Mazda rep said they were disappointed that the vast majority of the money the RX8 team had went into developing and making the car. Very little was left over for marketing. That's why he said you haven't seen much in the way of advertising for the car. He also said that Mazda is so pleased with the car, they were hoping for word-of-mouth to be enough to launch the car (which is why they opened up this event to those outside of the Mazda dealers.
-RX8 carpeting....the rep looked at me a bit quizically when I asked about the quality of the carpet, but said it was chosen from an outside source for its duarbility and wear characteristics. He did admit that it does look different than other cars carpet, but was more durable.
-assembly....rep said that manufacturing/assembly goals were set using the tolerances from the Lexus LS430. He said the plant ran at half speed for the first 700 cars made to make sure they got manufacutring right, which is why the cars were still just trickling into the U.S. now. Mazda expects the U.S. to be its biggest biggest volume buyer followed by the U.K. and then Japan. That was kind of interesting.
-reliability and safety...Mazda expects the RX8 to rank near the top of relibility heap after 24 months of ownership (which he said is the only way to guage how well any car will hold up). He said that Mazda crashed over 100 RX8s and expected it to rank among the best vehicle, either sports car or sedan regarding safety.
-future rotary models....depends on how sales go of the RX8. If they go well, then there could be (no commitment) more variants. No turbos in the foreseeable future.
That's about all I can remember.
If you've ever dreamed of owning a sports coupe but have been put off by the lack of space and the frightening price tag, the Mazda RX-8 could be the answer to your prayers. With world-class build quality, a unique engine, rear-hinged "barn" doors for the backseat passengers and a price of less than £20,000 when it goes on sale in Britain this summer, it's almost too good to be true. It may not be the prettiest, cheapest, fastest or lowest-deprecating car on the market this year but it's difficult to imagine any other matching the overall Mazda RX-8 package which, at this stage of the game, is simply unbeatable.
Many parents steer clear of buying sports cars because they need seats in the back for the kids plus four doors for safety and convenience - and that's exactly what the Mazda RX-8 offers. But what puts most people off is the price. The entry-level Mazda RX-8, however, will cost less than some versions of the humble Ford Mondeo and Vauxhall Vectra repmobiles And any motorists, young or old, who's daunted by the prospect of owning a proper sports car with a hi-tech rotary engine needn't worry - the Mazda RX-8 will be a doddle to drive. The £19,995 version produces just 189bhp, but for £21,995 there's a 238bhp model. And as rotary engines aren't particularly fuel-efficient, expect about 25mpg in average. Another downside is that its predecessor, the Mazda RX-7, depreciated heavily. But the Mazda RX-8 is priced so attractively that demand is bound to out strip supply which should mean the car will hold its value well.
Rivals are now deciding if they can reduce the price of models such as the Audi TT, Alfa GTV and imminent Chrysler Cross-fire and Nissan 350Z which all look grossly overpriced against the Mazda. In fact, they all need to plummet by thousands rather than hundreds if they're to be competitively priced against the little car from Japan. The Mazda RX-8 honestly represents the new car deal of the decade. Frankly, I don't know how the firm from Hiroshima does it for the money."
We were heading straight toward three RX-8s and I'm thinking this is just to good to be true. (It was, I missed the little Protege parked behind the 3 RX-8s.)
The RX-8 looks much better than I thought it would. I am a huge fan of the last RX-7. Though I may not buy the yellow one, I think I could get used to this car awfully quick.
If only I could say as much for my Mazda dealer. Such is life.
Question. Is that crank horsepower? Or rear wheel horsepower?
If mine gets 25 MPG I'll be happy.
yes, Euro RX-8s (both engines) will put out less power than the US/Japan ones.
blame emissions for the missing power
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My dealer called me last night to tell me that the mica red RX8 I ordered was scheduled to hit their store over Labor Day weekend. We started talking about colors because they only had the Red Mica and the Titanium to see when I ordered mine. While "small talking" with the Sales Manager, he said that they just got their August orders in and that the Red, Titanium and "Winning Blue" were his favorite colors. I told him that it was hard to tell from the brochure how the blue would look. Manager said if I wanted to look, to stop by "in the next couple of hours because it's being delivered tonight".
Since the dealer is within 20 minutes from where I live, I decided to check it out.
Got to the dealership and it was sitting right in front, polished, prepped, gleaming, waiting to be delivered. Started talking to the guy standing next to it as I pulled up. He ended up being the guy who ordered it and was just waiting for his financing paperwork to be completed. I told him that I had ordered the red, but liked to blue more since I had seen it in person. After a bit more "chit chat", the Sales Manager came out to get the guy. About 5 minutes later, I see the same guy rushing out of the dealership to his (old) car and drive away. Right behind him was his sales person saying "well, that sucked". Curiosity got the best of me and I asked the sales guy what happened. He said the guy coudln't get financed through the dealership and stormed out. Sales manager comes out, looks at me oggling the car and tells me "this one's available if you want it".
The color is stunning and since I now prefer the blue over the red, I tell him I like the car but I didn't want the NAV system. Sales Manager says "if you really want this color, let me see what I can do". He goes back in the dealership, comes back a couple of minutes later and says "I'll split the dealer cost of the Nav system with you if you take it tonite" (about $1,800). That means I spend about $900 more for the car than the one I originally ordered, but also received about a $900 discount from MSRP.
I don't think I could find a car more fun to drive for $32K (all loaded up).
If I could ever figure out how to post pictures here, I'd show it.
Dinu
Congrats and enjoy!
You are going to love the NAV. I got it on my, and although I personally haven't used it yet, since I'm away, my wife has. Everybody that got it has reported nothing but good things about it.
Since theorically you got the Nav for $900, it is quite a deal. And since it is a deal, you are going to love it more.
I had to run home last night from the dealership and grab my checkbook since I wasn't planning on buying a car right then. Sales Manager said they had already "booked" the unit as sold. I don't know how they get paid, but I got the distinct impression that it would not have been a good thing if they had to now subtract a "booked unit". They still made a good profit on the deal and I got the car I wanted at a decent price given the current sales climate for RX8s, although not equipped the exact way I wanted.
Zoomster....it's sitting in my garage right now. Part of the deal was buying it and taking delivery of it last night. I had planned on putting $10k down when my original order came in. So, I gave the sales manager a check for the $10K with the understanding the dealership wouldn't deposit it until Monday afternoon. That'll give me a chance to move some funds into my checking account to cover it. I keep just enough in my checking account to cover monthly expenses and withdrawals. The rest was paid using the "bank draft" from my bank from doing the "pre-approval" through them. It's a local bank so the dealership had no problem accepting it.
Fortunately, I had financing done already through my bank when they told me they expected my original unit would arrive in a couple of weeks. So, that part went smoothly.
"Customer Delivery" dept went through the typical stuff regarding extended warranty, but no pressure.
All in all, a great dealership experience and made some friends along the way.
Since it has been raining here, I thought the car would be slipping and sliding all over the place. If anything, it feels much more stable than my previous sedan with all season tires. I've been looking for excuses all day to run errands....some for no reason at all.
I played with the DVD nav a little. It's neat. I'm not sure how often I will use it, but I've heard that once you have it, you love it. All NAV systems in other cars have had mixed reviews, so we'll see about Mazda's iteration. To me, $900 is a lot to pay for the privilege of not getting lost.
I wish I had some time to do a proper detail job, but it rained all last night and is raining again today. Tomorrow, I may give it a shot.
If anyone knows how to post pics here, please let me know and I'll post some.
To post an image, just add type:
left-angle-bracket img src="image-url" right-angle-bracket
where left-angle-bracket is "<" and right-angle-bracket is ">".
Like this:
Edit: Don't work. The image is there though. You can cut and paste and go to the URL and the image is there. ???
Make sure there are no spaces (except between "img" and "src"), and that you quote the full URL:
"http://web.tampabay.rr.com/mbarto/images/My_RX-8/Ext/Front.JPG"
Nice pics, by the way...
edit...clearly, there's something that doesn't seem to work when I try to post a pic (trying to post a pic from my pictures on my computer....no URL.....
After two days of driving (and 150 miles), I can't see what people are talking about that this car lacks torque. It's torquier than anything I've driven short of a high output V8....tons of pull. Below 3K RPM in 4th gear it can be a bit sow, but it revs so quick above that, there's no noticeable lack of torque. This thing is comfy for a sports car....rides firm but controlled and not at all uncomfortable.
BTW...90% of available torque is available at 3K RPM. I'm having tooo much fun driving this. I spent the day Zainoing my ride. Of course, it started to rain as soon as I got it back in the garage.
Got lost on purpose....NAV is real accurate. I can't upset this car no matter what I do in the twisties.
I'm going to have to take some time off work, just to get the break-in period done with.
On aonther note, I've been stopped by two yunguns, both with modded civics to extol the virtues of the car (it certainly wasn't because of me). Also stopped by a middle aged man and his young lady friend while getting gas (and desperately/quickly trying to get home before it rained on the car).
I also had our neighborhood "man in blue" follow me home (no light, no sirens...just "tailing me), all the way into my driveway to inspect the car. Kind of scary at first but untimately complimentary. I told him "I'll stick out like a sore thumb to you guys". He replied, "you never know, you may get warnings for a while".....
Good to know, but don't want to test it.
Skimming through it, I got about 1/4 of the way through the RX8's development story. Talk about dedicated car people and a dedicated car company, these people are passionate about the car...rejecting some of the "naysayers" from different ranks within Ford to the Mazda R&D people who brought it to market.
Gotta love a car that was developed by car enthusiasts as opposed to bean counters and development by committee.
Neat book. Get it if you can.
I was really floored with the looks of the RX8 when I saw one in person the other day.
If the mechanicals and ride dynamics are what I hear, I think the RX8 has to be included in my short list of possible Miata replacements (my Mazda dealer problems notwithstanding).
It also addresses how some at Ford wanted Mazda to be a "volume" vanilla car producer like Toyota and Honda. Then it talks about how the folks at Mazda in Hiroshima and a couple of people at Ford thought that taking away the Rotary would be taking away Mazda's identity then the challenges of bringing a viable rotary sports car to market that people would buy.
I'm only about 1/4 of the way through the book, but glancing at the rest of it, there are also sections describing the rotary development from Dr. Wankel's original design and the cars that used the wankel.
Lots of stuff on the RX7's evolution, too.
Neat book.
logic...no matter what car you're buying, sometimes just being in the right place at the right time conspires to get the car you want at a decent price. No matter how much research we do here at Edmunds and elsewhere, there's no accounting to what motivates a dealer to make a deal one day and not make the same deal the next. For all intents and purposes, buying a car is still a "people" business....finding what motivates the seller as well as the buyer.
Truth be told, my dealership experience in buying the RX8 was the best I've ever had buying any car....that includes a couple of BMWs, too. Although, when I was cross shopping the G35, I must say that the Infiniti dealership was as accomodating as the Mazda dealership. It probably says more about setting the tone by ownership. Both the Infiniti and the Mazda dealership are owned by the same person(s). I had just the opposite experience when looking at a Thuderbird and the 350Z. I got the "sleazy" sales pitches at those places..."this is one hot car....we're selling them over MSRP because they are in demand....you need to buy this car today because they'll be gone by tomorrow" (BTW....both the Thuderburd and the 350Z I was looking at are still sitting on the lots at their respective dealerships).
nvbanker....couldn't agree with you more. The RX8s driving dynamics are phenomenal, whether you talk about acceleration or handling or just "bumper-to-bumper" everyday driving.
Dinu
Gee whiz, those 'flying off the lot' people haven't seen their product fly off the lot yet. I wonder why.
My dealer was "no pressure". Let me drive the demo for extended periods at multiple times. They were up front on price being MSRP, until I stumbled onto the "winning blue" deal (although, they did mention that they'd sell me anything else on the lot near invoice). Told me how they ordered the units if I was interested. There was none of the "if we do xxxxx, will you buy today" type selling. It as all product knowledge sharing. Their sales people knew their products, too.
Of course, the consumer sometimes asks for confrontational types of experiences. Case in point, when I went in during my 2nd test drive, there was an older gentleman there trying to buy a Tribute. I don't know the specifics of his deal, but I overheard the salesperson acknowledging the invoice figures from the customer and said they would sell the Tribute for a $xxx over that amount and the buyer could keep whatever rebates Mazda offered. The buyer said he knew that there was $xxxxx in holdback that he wanted to negotiate the Mazda holdback.
Instead of playing "cat and mouse", the salesperson politely said that they didn't do business that way. Once the buyer persisted, the salesperson said that while he wanted the buyer's business, he suggested the buyer couldn't get the deal he proposed from the dealership. Buyer was incensed until the sales manager came over and said they probably were not going to be able to do business. The sales manager then nicely thanked the buyer for coming in and offered the guy a "free oil change" coupon and said if he ended up buying the Tribute somewhere else, the dealership would still welcome his service business. Both the Sales Manager and the Salesperson then just walked away. The buyer stood there speechless.
I left seeing the buyer wandering the lot, alone, looking at every sticker on every Tribute they had on the lot. I don't know if they sold the guy a Tribute or not, but I thought to myself "that's a novel way to win a customer's business, even if they don't sell him a car".
not found in any stores!
The only reason it is on Ebay is because an owner has decided to part with his one and only copy, or received a duplicate and is now selling it. This book can not be picked up at some book wholeseller to be resold later.
Book goes into details of how the car was engineered, too.
The most fascinating parts were the struggles the few rotary believers at Mazda convincing the money people at Ford that a clean sheet design (which the RX8 is) was the only way the car was viable. They kept pointing towards the Le Mans win (only Japanese manufacturer that has won Le Mans) with a rotary engine. They had some lofty goals for assembly quality (Lexus was used as the example), vehicle suspension dynamics (BMW was used as the example) and even what the engine should sound like (a turbine).
I spoke to the dealership to see if they had extra books. They said they come straight from Mazda and are not for sale. They are supposed to be for only those people who "order" vehicles. Since I had an order in (although, eventually bought another RX8) I got the book.
Some pretty interesting early design skethes in there, too.
<The only reason it is on Ebay is because an <owner has decided to part with his one and only <copy, or received a duplicate and is now selling <it. This book can not be picked up at some book <wholeseller to be resold later.
bid starts at $65!!!
In a typical piston engine, it is fairly straight forward: piston area x length of stroke x # of cylinders. But to measure a rotary the same way, you would have to measure the MAXIMUM volume attained within each of the 3 rotor lobes (maximum volume between rotor and rotor housing) x 3 lobes/rotor x # of rotors. Is this how the displacement is measured? Or do the SAE engineers simply take the total volume within the rotor housing and subtract the volume of the rotor?
BUT...
If the volume in which a piston moves in its power stroke is the displacement (multiplied by however many pistons you have), then a rotary could be considered to displace three times its actual volume, since there is an instance of compression every 1/3 of a revolution.
Suddenly, 1.3 liters becomes 3.9.
It makes sense from a mathematical standpoint, and when you consider that a 4,5,6,8 etc.-cylinder engine has 4,5,6,8 etc. instances of compression per revolution...it holds some water in the technical sense, too.
Then again, displacement is completely unrelated to engine revolutions, so my thinking is probably all wet on this one. Oh, well. I had a late night.