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Lack of same might be the underlying problem - but I'm sure a few months in therapy will bring it all out in the open...lol!
Steve, Host
Happy New Year everyone!
KB
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Steve, Host
Test drove it a liked what I saw.
Since Plan participation is voluntary,as long as dealers are getting full MSRP they won't entertain A or X plan deals
Anyway, yes, it is an AWD model (not sure if they are selling the 2-wheel version yet). As I mentioned, there were two other SUV's up there with me, and both had significantly less trouble than the XC90 in very heavy snow.
That being said, once out on the slippery roads it handled very well- as good or better than my old QX4, and is a much nicer ride.
I have had it for two weeks and love it so far. The 2.5T has plenty of power for around town and has been more then ample on the highway. Passing power is there when needed and it cruises comfortably at and above posted speed limits.
The car has a real 'fun' factor when driving. The 5 speed makes a big difference from a standstill although I feel first gear is too 'short'. I am much more confident in the rain and cornering with it versus my experiences in the RX300.
Inside, it is very comfortable and user friendly for the driver. There is good, but not great space between the first and second row. I have had 6' passengers in the back who were very comfortable, but little legs in car seats can kick the seat infront of them. The rear headset adapters that come with the versatility package are awesome. They would have prevented many fights on trips when I was young. The climate package rain sensing wipers are a nice feature and the heated seats work great.
I had very high expectations for the car and it hasn't disappointed during my short tenure with it. The only concerns so far would be 1.) the gas mileage - sub 18mpg in heavy city driving. I attribute this largely to the engine not being broken in yet. 2.) Engine noise. The noise is not overbearing but it is notably higher then the T6 1st through 3rd gear.
Overall, very pleased.
I had originally ordered the T6, but changed the order after driving both of the cars (which is why I didn't get the car earlier). The 2.5 is replacing a 2000 ML320 (lease was up). I love this car so far. I drove it for a few hours in driving rain on New Year's and the car performed beautifully (the rain sensor was great!). It is really a pleasure to drive--very smooth and quiet. We haven't had any snow to test the car in yet. I'm hoping that the car is as sure-footed as my ML was in snow.
My ML was a good car and I enjoyed it while I had it. My main complaints were road noise (it always sounded like a window was open) and my boys were starting to outgrow the car. The oldest is only 11, but when you figure 3 children and backpacks, the space got tight quickly.
I'm still waiting for my navigation dvd to arrive, which is very annoying. I wish it came with the car. I love the stereo and the in-dash cd changer. I never used the changer in the ML since it was so ackwardly located. Having the changer in the dash is great!
Sharon
They couldn't explain why this car had 'em when Volvo said no Xenons 'till Feburary at the earliest - but I saw them with my own two eyes.
I don't want to get everyone started on the whole Xenon discussion again, but thought it might be hopeful news to those waiting for same.
Buying in West Michigan, paying MSRP, 3-yr lease, $732/mo, $26,190 residual, 15K mi/yr. $790 due at signing - don't ask me money factor stuff.
First week's 'road test' feedback to follow if the wife let's me drive it.
We're glad you're no longer a lurker.
tidester, host
I have two small kids, ages 5 and 2.
It's a pleasure to drive. Acceleration is fine. I was worried that I'd have trouble getting on to the highway since I chose the smaller engine but since 90% of my driving is around town, it seemed like the smaller engine was the way to go. Had not truly tested acceleration till today. Today had to do a "double merge" (you know, when about four people are stuck behind some doofus and you see the entire highway is clear so you just go for it). No problem getting up to speed without a lot of car angst.
Car seats fit fine, despite a comment by an earlier recipient that he'd had trouble.
So here's my question. Is it better to go for a dealer installed NAV system or a GARMIN or Magellan? I kind of shy away from built-in's as you can't upgrade to newer technology easily. But some reviews of the top of the line GARMIN seem to imply that OEM's from Mercedes at least are better. So how is Volvo?
Thanks for any and all input.
HTH
It handles well through rain and snow. I took it out on an open field with compact, somewhat icy snow, and "played around" a bit. I also went through some 6-8" of snow over somewhat bumpy terrain. Considering it didn't have "snow" tires on, I think it handled as I expected. You could feel it working the tires as slippage occured, but it never failed to continue its steady progress. I did purchase cable chains for it (not through the dealer) and was able to stow them away between the two recessed 3rd row seats below the back cargo panel.
I also tested its high speed cruising. It cruises quite comfortably up to at least 100 mph. I didn't go faster than that, so can't comment on anything above 100.
I have been happy with the climate control as well. I found myself not having to fuss with it nearly as much as in previous vehicles.
The two issues (warnings) I feel everyone should be aware of are:
1) The front cup holder cover breaks if anyone tries to "lift" it instead of pushing it down to release it. It is not something that is easy to fix. I saw this in a dealer's demo XC90 and when my mother entered the car, it was the first thing she did. Be sure to tell anyone who enters you car for the first time. Volvo fixed it, but I didn't tell them how it happened.
2) Ever wonder what the little plastic sheet is over the paint in front of the rear wheel well? It is meant to protect your paint (& clearcoat) from getting chips. Because the wheel well flares out, road dirt hits the flared portion causing damage. Unfortunately, the plastic sheet doesn't cover completely to the edge of the flare and you will get chips, particularly if you drive over roads that have excessive road dirt due to snow or rain. I have asked my Volvo service representative to find out about getting new plastic sheets. I plan on removing the old ones and putting new ones on, better positioned to protect the paint. Also, the old (1 week) protective coverings are pock marked and don't look very good. I am considering the possiblity of putting two overlapping sheets on to slightly increase the width and amount of protection. I have also added mudflaps.
I will provide more info as I learn more about the vehicle.
Steve, Host
Depending on the specifics (geometry, size, speed, etc.) of the vehicle and aperture the air rushing outward can "overshoot" resulting in the interior air pressure being even lower than the streaming air. At that point, the outside pressure is greater than the inside pressure and the airflow reverses with a rush of air into the vehicle.
The process repeats itself and you get the characteristic thumping sound.
tidester, host
I have several friends who test drove about 4-6 weeks ago and really did not like the T6, my test drives were too short to really know for certain which I preferred. In fact, the salesman had me get right on the highway with the T6 and had me use the 2.5T only on city streets for about 5 minutes. Seems like I just got to drive each car where they are best suited, perhaps not a great test. The 2.5T was definitely noisier (engine) but seemed better from a stop, the T6 had that sloppy steering that I did not care for but kicked some butt once on the highway.
If everyone with a T6 keeps saying that everything is peachy it will make me wonder whether volvo tweaked the shifting etc... after the early cars went out for the press/public to play with. Is this possible?
Motor Trend rated the T6 - SUV of the year, but they also commented on the handling, which Volvo indicated would be tweaked prior to general availability.
Does anyone have any more official information on what changes were made and/or are in the works for 2004?
Also - would the person that posted that s/he was going to anchor a Britax in the third row please fill me in on how that went?
Thanks for your help.
hope that helps
Gear Hunting: The only time I noticed gear hunting was while going up long ascents at specific speeds. It didn't happen very often. When it does, you can either speed up, slow down, or easily use the manual mode to temporarily prevent hunting. I understand that in the 5 speed, this can also happen. By the way, the transmission shifts into manual quite smoothly.
Handling: This is very subjective since I've never driven another SUV except for test drives. I've driven trucks and sedans. As for high speed cornering, for the speeds I am comfortable going, it felt secure ( and I am not a slow driver ). As I've grown more accustomed to it, I have been more aggresive even in city driving. High speed traction to the road is good. Braking is very good.
Steering: I adapted to the graduated power assisted steering quickly. It is nice at low speeds such as entering and traversing a parking lot. As you speed up, you definitely feel it firm up. You don't have to worry about sloppy steering.
Acceleration: It isn't a sports car, but I still gives me enough get go off the line to race ahead to cross lanes or simply get somewhere fast. Passing at high speeds is no problem. I easily passed 2 vehicles at a time wihhout worry. Of course, this again is subjective since you may be used to a real fast sports car and having 4 seconds of visibility. But for the rest of the crowd, the power is there. However, when I was at about 6 thousand feet, 30 deg Farenheit, going about 80 mph up a relatively steep mountain pass, there wasn't a lot of quick acceleration for passing. Though it didn't provide the typically noticable thrust, it did accelerate.
If anybody is interested in specifics, please ask.
I spoke to a dealer this week, and he indicated they didn't expect to even start taking orders for 2004 models until this summer, with delivery probably in the October timeframe. Is is possible that different dealers have different capabilities for ordering the car?
Anyone else have any thoughts?
I personally prefer SUVs over minivans. I do not like how minivans handle, but minivans are great for holding people. You have to think about how you will use the car. It certainly is much easier to load a bunch of little kids into a minivan--door slides open; kids hop in.
That said, I love this car (2.5T). It handles beautifully and is fun to drive. There is plenty of room for my children and their backpacks and stuff.
I haven't heard about any discounts, even with cash; but you can always ask. The waiting lists are so long though, I can't see what the dealers incentive is to discount. They could easily charge over list, but they don't seem to be.
I do feel as though this is a safe car. Have you driven it? Do you feel comfortable with it? My dad had it in his head that he wanted to buy my mother an Expedition, so that she would be safe--totally oblivious to that fact that she was not all all comfortable with the car (way to big for her). I had to sit him down and explain that no matter how safe the car seemed, if she wasn't comfortable driving it, she was going to increase her chances of getting into an accident.
So, drive the car--a lot. Make sure you like how it handles. If you are getting the third row, load kids in and out of it to make sure it won't drive you crazy (I have friends that won't buy an SUV because they don't like the extra steps for getting kids into the back).
As to waiting for the next model year--If you can wait, that might be wise. I think there is always some risk in buying the first model year of any car--there are a lot of unknowns. My lease was up last month, so I had no choice--I really wanted this car.
So far, I love it.
Sharon
We test drove the GX470 and the 2.5T. Our first mistake was driving the GX470 first. Our opinions of the 2.5T are as follows:
A gear-like whining noise coming from the rear of the car. When sitting in the 2nd row of seats it was louder. The steering seemed twitchy and the brakes were "different". Very nice looking car and comfortable seats, however the dash was kind of ho-hum. And then we drove another one at a different dealership because we were so concerned about the noise and the noise was there, however not as loud. Our price from the dealer was $43,500 (premium, climate,versatility packages and the exterior styling kit) plus at least another $800 price increase for the 2004 model = $44,300. He indicated that at this point they are ordering the 2004's. With a 3-6 month wait. No free dealer services offered.
GX470 Wow! NO engine noise, so quiet, beautiful interior, nice brakes and so smooth. Our dealer price $47,600. Base price plus the third row seat package. Could have one like we want in 1 month. And you get a better warranty and our dealership offers some free service and discounts.
We drove both cars with our children (ages 2 & 5). No noticeable differences in the interior space. Both third row seats are not comfortable, however the 5 year old didn't seem to mind. GX470 came with standard running boards. Yet with the XC90 we have to add on the exterior styling kit to achieve this. It makes it alot easier for the kids to climb in and out of the car.
We didn't test drive the T6. At that point I was sold on the GX470. I am more concerned with the ride and handling of the car. At least test drive the GX470. For practically the same amount of money you should consider it.
It's all in what you're looking for. If this is to be the car that you will be taking on long trips and is your main vehicle then we would say hands down, the Lexus. If it is the commute, gad about town, take the kids to soccer car and all around day to day car then the Volvo will fit the bill nicely with better mileage.
Since the 2.5 is only a 5 cyl and the GX is an 8 then think it would only be fair for you to drive and try the T6 for a better comparison. The engine would have to be quieter the the 2.5 and the mileage would be similar on to the Lexus.
Be happy to answer any other questions or give you our opinion on any other items you may have on these two. They are both in their own ways excellent vehicles obviously or we would not have chosen to own them both.
In the end, for us, we decided that the T6 was better suited for a day-to-day family car (we have two small kids). The thought of constantly installing and uninstalling the third row seats of the GX 470 did not appeal to me. And, personally speaking, I did not like the swaying sensation that I felt when I made a turn in the GX 470 as opposed to the T6. Another significant factor was price. Comparably equipped, the GX470 was about $ 7,000 more than the T6. Of course, in my opinion, the fully-loaded version of the GX 470 is certainly better equipped than the fully-loaded version of the T6 -- better stereo, nav system, etc. But, we thought that we would prefer to have a fully loaded T6 v. a base GX 470, at the same price point.
We took delivery of T6 yesterday. Our delivery experience went well, except for a 5" scratch in the paint of the driver side quarter panel. It looked like someone walked by the car and scratched it with a zipper or the like. The dealer, of course, is going to take care of this in their body shop (repaint a portion of the panel). While the scratch bugged me to no end, my wife didn't really care all that much and wanted to take delivery. (The dealer showed us an example of their paint work, and it was exellent.)
We drove the car to dinner (and then some) last night. The more my wife drove it, the wider her smile got. That was all I really needed to know to affirm our decision.
Also the info on the Lexus GX470 is very interesting. We may have to go out to the Lexus dealer and check them out, especially if the wait on the XC90 gets any longer.
Our in-seat time on the Volvos was fairly limited as yours was and although the T6 has a softer feel to the steering than the 2.5T it is a better comparison to the Lexus drive. I'm not sure if I can help on the choice of XC versus GX only because our dilemma was the same and we are lucky enough to own them both to resolve it!
What we can say is this, we can hardily endorse the Lexus product without hesitation. After thirteen years as Lexus owners we think this is as fine an auto as you can own. But we have not had an accident in one to test the safety factor either. Volvo has a wonderful reputation for safety but a lesser reputation in terms of quality. We are chancing that Volvo wants this SUV to be so successful that they have done what they need to do to put the quality there in addition to the safety...only time will tell.
You are getting a true truck based SUV with the GX but the ride is superb. As you are aware the Volvo is based on a car frame. Maybe that makes the GX more capable off-road, maybe not (if you do end up in that ditch). While Volvo has the environmental issues firmly in hand, the Lexus is less so. Mileage is rated about the same but if HP is important then with the twin turbos on the Volvo you have more HP on a 6 cyl engine than Lexus has on it's 8 cyl. Note: that does not mean that the Lexus lacks for power. Like the LS this Lexus finds you easily going 80 and above on highways without even realizing it. Without hesitation, for smoothness and comfort on long trips there is NOTHING LIKE A LEXUS.
You'll turn heads and get comments with either one (we have found). Lexus is pricier but more luxurious too. You sit higher in the Lexus than the Volvo and so that running board on the GX is almost mandatory (to get in and out) versus adding it on the Volvo as an option. The feature to raise and lower the car height on the Lexus is handy. Only you can do the comparisons to determine what works best for your situation. We are aging boomers without the kids and so if my choice had been to own just one, it would have been the Lexus just because of our prior experience and that fact that I like the elegance of the Lexus interiors and all those bells and whistles. Guess you can tell which one I'm driving...just that kind of gal!
Good luck on the choice. It's a difficult one.
The cars are shipped in covered semis, look like regular tractor trailers.
Only 3 XC90's can fit in a standard trailer.
The shipping company bought some special oversize trailers for this, but they only have a few.
Also, they have contracts with BMW, Audi,and Land Rover.
I had an XC90 in the port ready to ship on the 23rd of DEc and we didn't get it till the 31st!
Volvo has alot of cars in the port that they were trying to get out before the end of the year, some XC's didn't make it.
My advice is to lean on your dealer, they can call the shipping company and get you a better idea of when the car would arrive.
Its not like Fed-X however,the delivery process can be very inexact!