Volvo XC90 SUV

volvomax

Value will depend on a couple of things.
First, a competent used car appraiser will be able to tell that its been hit and repaired, so that will lower your value.
Second, if it shows on Carfax as a severe or non severe accident that will lower your value also.
Third, most highline dealers wouldn't resell such a car so you would be left with whatever a wholesaler would be willing to give, regardless of whatever Kelly or Edmunds says the value is.

1sttimevolvo1

Depending on the age of the car you may want to donate it to Volunteers of America or Disabled American Vets and write it off on your taxes. Years ago I went through the trade-in process. We got nearly what we wanted ($2900) on the trade-in, and we got 2.5% over invoice on the new car. We got a good deal, but the process was drawn out (nearly 3 hours). The salesman was trying to play numbers games, trying to pitch a lease to me, etc. When that failed the finance manager tried the same thing. When we finally decided we were going to leave, only then did they agree to our terms. The finance guy was very irritated and short with us upon okaying the deal. It helped that we financed through our credit union. It's a process that I don't want to go through again. When we bought our XC90 we cut all the crap and paid with cash, saving as if we had car payments over the last 5 years to do so.

ohiosuv

I have been asking this question for the past 6 months and finally made a decision to buy the Murano. I saved $10K vs. my alternatives, which were the XC90 and the Touareg. Very happy thus far. Also, my wife has the MDX and we are very happy with that - I just could not have 2 in the same garage.

If you need the third row of seats, the MDX is the way to go. It looks better than the XC90 and is a more premium name, so value should hold up better and quality is clearly better.

If you do not need a third row of seats, the MDX is still a great choice. I passed on the VW because I could not get past the idea of paying $42K for a VW - if I am paying that kind of money, I should get a premium brand name. The XC90 is competent, but uninspiring. Not a bad choice, but just not worth $41K in my mind.

So my suggestion is to ask yourself if you think the Acura (at $40K) is worth the extra $8K vs. the Murano (at $32K). I think they are about equal in "value" - i.e., to the Murano add $4K for the premium brand name, $1,500 for the third row of seats, $2,500 for the more luxurious interior and you get the justification for the higher cost of the MDX. Simply, are you looking for the extra luxury that the MDX has over the Murano? If not, the Murano is a reasonable alternative with a surprising number of extras and more than sufficient "luxury".

bigeddy

I guess that's why there are so many choices. Looks are very subjective but, to me, the Murano looks like a prop in a sci-fi movie and is in a different class than the up-scale MDX and XC90. In roughly the same weight & size class for just a couple $k more than the Murano, the XC70 would have been an excellent choice.

The MDX, OTOH, is about as conservative as they come; the rear looks like a station wagon tacked on the end of a sedan. The XC90 is gorgeous compared to these two and more versatile as well. Many people prefer its interior design and quality.

As for value, we pay our money and make our choices. Families with multiple cars used primarily for commuting have many options to reduce their long-term transportaton budget.

anilpunjabi

see i cant see how people can say an mdx is a bteer value, just b/c its cheaper. Isnt a good value: u get what u pay for. Well in the xc90 i think its as good value as the mdx b/c the third row is actual leather. Has added safety features, like a boron roof, anti roll control, curtain airbags, and last time i checked every time an airbag goes offf the insurance must pay close to 1k per airbga for a new one, has an option for headphones in the back, option of bi-xenon, can tow more, has rain sensing wipers, pretensioners in all seats, and porbably a quieter more refined interior, so if u tok thee 40k mdx and added all those extr goodis they shoudl equal out, and sory but of 2k4 free maintanence and better service than teh acura. I do like the mdx, but its like the camry, u see one at every corner, and some people do pay for that exclusivity factor hence the success of prada gucci, and lious vuiton. Cheaper doesnt mean better value. And also people who are in a tight squeeze look for the "better value", so for people who buy the more expensive xc90 arent as worried abt the price b/c they can afford the extra cost of that added luxury.

cheapskate7

For those considering the MDX, study message #14 under the Discussion Title "what is the safest vehicle" in the XC90 board. The photo is worth a thousand words!

baza

i have a 2.5 xc90 diesel and have found that there is a 2-3 second delay when moving away from rest when the accelerator is applied fully. my dealer has said that volvo is aware of this problem and it is due to a small turbo/auto box/awd/heavy vehicle etc etc. has anyone else experienced this problem?
there is a software download that is available but has not been modified on my car yet.

rulester

I was considering buying a MDX and XC90 too. It took me over 7 months to decide because, at the time, I thought the MDX was a better value. But, the XC90 was a better car. So, I was in decision paralysis for a long time....

I realized one pivotal issue that helped me to decide and put a deposit on an XC90 last week... one thing to consider with the MDX is that it is still in the 2003 model year (I think the MDX's 2004 is coming out in November). If you consider retention value, and you want to buy NOW, you'll get better retention on the 2004 XC90 than the 2003 MDX, assuming mileage and condition are the same at time of trade in. [if you go to www.leasecompare.com, you can see what the leasing companies project for the residual value after 3 years]. Also, to look at a fair price comparison, you really should compare the XC90 (with premium, versatility, and climate) versus the MDX with the Touring package, since that gets you more similarity of features between the two.

When you put these factors together, the price is about the same. We picked the XC90 because we thought safety was more important to us. Generally speaking I agree with anilpunjabi's comment (thread #1994) - you get what you pay for.

max63

The XC90 I drove listed for $44,730, including $1,675 for the third seat (deduct this when comparing to SUVs without a third row), $595 for a “climate package” (heated front seats, automatic wipers, headlamp wipers), $500 for xenon headlamps, $1,300 for a package including the 18” wheels and uprated stereo, and $450 for metallic paint. The main option it lacked was the $1,895 nav system. Edmunds suggests virtually no discounting, even though the 2004s are already available. The 2004s are priced about $600 higher.

Befitting the small difference in performance, Volvo charges less for the uplevel engine than Infiniti or BMW. A T5 equipped like the 2003 T6 I drove (but without the 18-inch wheels or power retractable mirrors) lists for $42,830.

I won’t bother to compare the prices of the Infiniti FX35 or BMW X5. Those offer much sportier handling in return for less capacity. The choice between them and the Volvo should be based on these differences.

The vehicle most similar to the Volvo is the Acura MDX, which lists for $38,800 in a “touring” model equipped like the XC90 I drove. The Acura doesn’t look as good, and its stability control lacks the Volvo’s anti-rollover features, and feels a bit less luxurious inside, but is quicker, better handling, and feels roomier. For most people it is a better value.

Even less expensive is the 2004 Chrysler Pacifica, which lists for $36,890 equipped as close as possible to the Volvo. The typical dealer discount and a $1,000 rebate brings this down to about $35,100 according to Edmunds. The main feature it lacks is stability control, which a vehicle in this class should have. Like the Acura, it is available with a rear seat entertainment system. The Pacifica handles more like a car than the other two owing to a lower seating position, but also lacks their ground clearance. Through the steering and brakes the Pacifica manages to feel like a more massive vehicle than the Volvo, though they weight about the same. Accleration is about on par with the XC90 T5. If you plan to remain on the pavement, this won’t matter. Materials are notably better than past Chryslers, about equal to those in the Acura. Chrysler has been having trouble selling a vehicle over $30,000, so I would expect larger rebates in the future. Even at the current price, it is much less expensive than the Volvo. Definitely worth considering.

The Volvo’s price seems more reasonable compared to the slightly pricier SUVs from Mercedes and BMW, especially considering that those are smaller, less voluminous vehicles without a third row. If you want a European brand and a third row with your SUV, the Volvo is currently your only alternative.

Final Words

From its appearance and horsepower I thought the Volvo XC90 might serve as a larger, more versatile substitute for BMW’s X5. However, it is biased much more towards comfort and utility. This is not a problem for most people shopping for such a vehicle, as sporty handling likely isn’t high on their list of priorities. They’re interested in room, safety, comfort, and perhaps prestige, and in these areas the XC90 does well. Acura and Chrysler offer less expensive alternatives, but for people who desire a European SUV with three rows of seats, the Volvo is currently the only game in town.

Without considering price this is a four-star vehicle. But because the price is significantly higher than comparable vehicles, I've reduced my rating to three.

Recommended
Yes

tidester

It is customary to cite the author of copyrighted material. Copyright law permits "fair use" of limited excerpts from copyrighted material. Let's limit excerpts to VERY SHORT ones!

Also, feel free to use quotation marks when quoting somebody else's writing.

Thanks!

tidester, host

mopsmom

I read the specs and realize the T6 can tow up to 5000lbs. but has anyone actually towed a large boat or camper? If so, please let me know what your thoughts are...
We are looking to tow a 3600lb. boat and trailer with a car filled to the max in passengers.

thank you! <><

triceratops5

I am trying to decide between the AWD and FWD versions of the XC90 2.5T. I really don't need the AWD for snow, ice, etc., but am wondering if it provides superior control on wet roadways...or does the DSTC and ROPS and all the other stuff work just fine independently of the AWD system. Just seems like if I don't need to lug the extra weight and complexity around, might as well avoid it. Any thoughts?

triceratops5

2nd question on the XC90: The NHTSA currently shows the XC90's front crash test results as "under review" -- my understanding is that the car was originally given 4 stars but that Volvo has appealed the result (hence the "under review" designation). Does anyone know any more about this? The car has outstanding results from IIHS and NCAP (which seem like more demanding tests), so this result was surprising.

wmquan

NHTSA's full-frontal test is very unusual and no one else (as far as I know) runs it. It simulates a vehicle slamming into a hard barrier head-on. NHTSA claims that this is a good test of the vehicle's restraint systems and how they may prevent injury. Whereas the offset frontal test is a better simulation of vehicle structure as it relates to injuries.

Many safety "experts" consider the offset-test much more real-world. After all, how many vehicles crash head-on into walls? A vehicle rear-ending another vehicle is not the same because the NHTSA test doesn't even use a deformable barrier.

In fact, NHTSA wants to adopt the offset crash test in addition to its current full-frontal test, but thus far budget restrictions have prevented it.

If the XC90 doesn't get the 5-star rating, it's a small disappointment but I don't think it invalidates the vehicle's position as one of the safest (and quite possibly THE safest) SUV out there. A lot of recent vehicles seem to be having trouble with the NHTSA front test, and many of them are no slouches in the safety department. E.g. the new Mercedes-Benz E-class also got four stars, and so did the C-class. NHTSA just re-tested the Acura MDX, whose 2002 version to 5 stars. The 2003 MDX dropped to 4-stars, probably because of a slightly higher vehicle rate and its new dual-stage, dual-threshold airbags.

rob35cts

Thankyou for replying. What is actually done (just give an ex of your expierence of a interval service)? I do all of my own servicing as I have time as I am a school teacher. I would never pay that much.

bigeddy

AWD will have better grip on rain-slick roads independent of the other systems, and the AWD model has a higher weight rating and towing capacity. OTOH, a FWD model will be cheaper to buy, maintain and operate, and you may notice a slight improvement in performance because it's lighter. Because the Volvo AWD system acts like FWD in normal driving, I'd say just get the FWD unless you frequently drive in nasty weather or on poor roads.

jb_shin

Euro NCAP test frontal, side, and pedestrian safeyl. For frontal, a deformable barrier is used at 40 mph, and XC90 received 5 stars.\\http://www.euroncap.com/details.php3?id=car_160_2003

wmquan

EuroNCAP has the best testing program going, more or less. They perform the offset frontal test (IIHS test is modeled on it) and a side-impact test complete with a pole test.

The only quibbles I have with their testing:

1) They do not test side-impact with a large barrier like IIHS has just started to do. Then again, such larger vehicles are less common in Europe.

2) They've damaged the credibility of their "5-star rating" by altering the scoring system. It used to be extremely difficult to get 5 stars in their testing. Now quite a few vehicles have one. Unfortunately, most of this is due to a change in their scoring. A vehicle now gets 1 or 2 points for having a seatbelt reminder system.

EuroNCAP claims that this is valid given how important seatbelt use is in crashes. I find that highly questionable, as it artificially influences the full crash test result. If they're going to give points to belt reminder systems, they may as well award points for stability control, a boron roof, etc.

Thus I no longer look just at the star rating from EuroNCAP but the numerical scores awarded for front and side impact tests.

What is sobering is that the XC90 would NOT have received five stars from EuroNCAP using the older scoring system (without adding points for a seatbelt reminder). It would have come out one point short. It still has an outstanding performance, but it's not really five stars.

seatbelt

I was wondering where those of you who have had luck with the dealer responding to the seatbelt issue bought your car. I purchased my xc90 at volvo of Lisle in Lisle Ill. They fixed the seats and door once and now will not even take complaints regarding this issue. (not to mention the leather repair is horrible! The repair has an orange color to it and they told me they they can't match the taupe exactly!!!) I would appreciate any info with this as I am ready to try to return the car under the lemon law or go to a consumer advocate agency with this issue.

rollie

I can't tell you exactly what would be on the schedule as I don't have a XC90 yet (we have S80 T5, and V70 T5). The schedule varies by model but in general they are checking / changing fluids, checking operation of lights and brakes and other basic safety items. The minor service often has a lot of things you can do yourself if you are talking about the dealer schedule. Again the factory schedule is smaller and more reasonable. You should be able to call any dealership and ask them to fax over the dealer schedule and you can compare to factory schedule in your warranty booklet.

Thanks.

-rollie
rdollie@att.net

stever

The Edmunds Maintenance Guide has the schedule for the '03's. The '04 info hasn't been plugged in yet, but it likely won't be much different, eh?

Steve, Host

jb_shin

I heard the same. Renault Laguna was one of the last one to have received 5 stars with the older scoring system. Still, Top Gear showed cars that scored 4, 3, and 2. One with 4 stars barely had any damage to the passenger compartment and the door opened as if there were no damage. One with 3 stars had pedals pushed back and the A pillar slightly deformed. The last one with 2 stars could barely open the door and the passenger would have suffered serious injury, possibly death.

Oh, BTW, it was Land Rover Free Lander that was shown with 2 stars.

itsaford

Several people on this discussion board are having issues with the seat belts damaging the car doors. I just got off the phone with Volvo Customer Service, and they insist that the seat belts are meant to be GUIDED BACK into their appropriate slots prior to leaving the vehicle. I am told that it even says this in the owners manual. Any damaage is due to our not manually guiding them back. I explained that most children will not be guiding them back upon leaving the vehicle, and that perhaps the salespeople should inform potential customers that their kids better follow the seat belt rules, or else the car will get damaged. Swedish children must be very disciplined.

volvotex

Some of you might be interested in watching a segment of the "Modern Marvels" show on the History Channel that was all about Crash Tests. I watched it last Wednesday night, but I'm sure they will run it again at some point....you can probably check their website. It featured the XC90 extensively, even showing the "moose test" near the end of the show in reference to the anti-roll technology. They also referenced Volvo inventing the 3-point seat belt. I had already had my XC90 for 5 days, but still thought it was pretty cool to see it on TV. The only problem I've had so far is that now I am seeing more XC90's on the road and I sure wish everyone else would quit buying them..if I wanted to blend in I would have bought an MDX, X5 or Suburban.

rob35cts

I went to the interval service posted by Steve and I foulnd out that they charge $9 for reseting the computer after changing the oil. Can someone tell me if this must be done by a tech or can the owner do it?

stever

"Even after months on the market, the Volvo XC90, an SUV made by the Ford unit, is still being marked up about $1,500 on average."

More cars selling above sticker price (sunspot.net)

Steve, Host

bigeddy

"Even after months on the market, the Volvo XC90, an SUV made by the Ford unit, is still being marked up about $1,500 on average." ... "according to Edmunds.com." (www.sunspot.net)
 
I wonder how Edmunds.com figures the average. I checked their TMV (true market value or actual selling price) for the XC90 T6 and 2.5T in several west coast zip codes and it was below MSRP in each case. The article mentioned L.A. but that may have been a particular dealer; one L.A. dealer I visited last year was charging straight MSRP.

To me, the more telling item mentioned in the article is the unwanted options that you may pay for because that is what the dealer ordered. My local dealer even has the habit of adding Volvo accessories onto the car and charging full MSRP for them. Argues for overseas delivery if you can wait.

itsme7g

I think it's big. Both of mine are broken. The little keyring pops out of the remote. Anyone else with broken key / big key complaints? Photos at the link below.

http://www.sector7-g.com/volvo/key.html

glxwagon4mo

I don't have a XC90...yet. Its on order is due in the middle of this month

I've heard other XC90 owners complain of the new key and the "D" ring. I had a similar problem with our '00 Passat switchblade type key and its "O" ring. The darn thing kept on popping of the remote. I solved it by using the small ring from a Maglite keychain flashlight - its smaller than the ring that is around the Nissan remote that attaches to the pocket knife in your picture.

I'm not sure if something wll work for the Volvo, but you can bet I'll be checking it out when I take delivery!

George

bigeddy

The key fob is not designed to support the weight of many keys, pocket knives, etc. Best to keep it separate. If you must store it on a keyring, use one of those removable key links.

Yes, it's big but it also has many features. Not your standard remote. Volvo is working on an even more elaborate "personal communicator" that has fingerprint recognition and keyless vehicle operation.

rollie

I saw the personal communicator in the VCC. Looks and sounds cool but just wait until you have to replace one of these babies...people complain about a couple hundred to replace keys/fobs now. I bet this thing will set you back a lot more (and maybe by the time they are ready for one of these things they'll figure out a Pocket PC program that would be compatible with a PDA instead?) Who knows...

-rollie
rdollie@att.net

jcat707

What does the yellow button do? I have a Passat so I have a switchblade key as well. I think it's kind of cool but takes a minute to get used to.

bigeddy

It lights up the car and the surrounding area at night. Helps locate the car and hazards. Lights stay on for about 30 seconds: interior, parking, license plate, and sideview mirrors. If you don't like what you see, press the red button to turn on the alarm!

1sttimevolvo1

Maybe I'm missing something, but I never considered the service interval and the associated costs when buying our XC90. The 60,000 mile service for this car will run upwards of $500 - $600 dollars or so, but that's for maintaining a $42,000 vehicle. My '96 Mercury Sable had a cost for 60,000 mile service interval of approx. $400. That was for a car that stickered at $20,000. The way I look at it, it's a necessary (and proportionally acceptable)maintenance cost for upkeep of a vehicle I plan on keeping for 8-10 years anyway. At an average mileage of 15,000 per year, normal service maintenance works out to about $15 per month.
I agree that oil changes and light maintenance one could do themselves and save a few bucks and time. But while it's under warranty I prefer to have the dealer do everything.
One side note regarding the maintenance. The timing belt change is recommended at 120,000 miles. With this particular engine, if the belt fails, the engine suffers serious damage, driving the piston into valves that are open. Some engines are manufactured to prevent this from happening by designing a recess well for the valves so they are not damaged by the piston when the belt breaks. Something to consider if your worried about service interval costs.

khanhvn

I agree. My 97 Mits Galant costed me $800 for the 60K miles service, which included scheduled timing belt replacement. It's good that XC90 only needs timing belt change every 120K.

1sttimevolvo1

I misquoted the maintenance schedule. I double checked and the timing belt change is recommended at 105,000 miles.
WOW! $800 dollars for 60,000 mile service. Which may not be high IF they do a whole lot in return.

carpoolmom1

I've never had an SUV...never thought I was an SUV gal. Previously drove audi and subaru wagons to transport my 5 and 3 year olds. Ready to move on to the volvo, but should I stick with cross country wagaon or give the xc90 a whirl?. Test drove both. Liked the xc90, was intrigued, not too high up or truck-like. But STILL IT'S AN SUV! Little concerned about roll over factor. Do I need a compelling reason to switch to an SUV? Should I stick with wagon? Any thoughts?I

volvomax

The XC90 is several times stronger than the XC70.
The RSC system makes it extremely hard to roll.
Also, residual for the XC90 are fabulous so leasing is a good way to go.
The XC70(Cross Country) gets a little better gas mileage than the XC90 2.5T, lot beter than the T6, is easier to drive and park.
The XC90 has alot more space, and 3rd row seats.
Do you need the space?
If not stick w/ the Cross Country.

bigeddy

I wouldn't say the XC90 is "several times stronger than the XC70" but it is heavier and higher which can help in some types of crashes. The heft also makes it a better tow vehicle, and it handles off-pavement jaunts more easily. The height gives better visibility but makes loading things on the roof more difficult. Its size is a benefit with pavement ruts and potholes, but those big tires are more expensive and heavy and come in fewer flavors. The XC90's main benefit for most people is its passenger & cargo capacity, especially children. Exclusiveness matters to some.

850owner

Anyone have info on when the executive or elite version of the xc is hitting the US? I like the dual headrest tvs, and it seems that is the only way to get them due to the reinforcing bar in the current headrests (aftermarket guys say it can't be done w/o cutting said bar). I have heard fall '03. BTW, I hear that the dealer installed ent. system will not be available until spring '04 due to problems. Thanks.

1sttimevolvo1

I concur with volvomax and bigeddy, but I might add that although the XC90 is more difficult to roll, like any higher profile vehicles (minivans included) it will roll if `tripped', i.e. on wet or icy pavement you slide into a curb, or off the pavement onto an uneven/unstable grade. The benefit the XC90 has is the boron steel roof, which will likely maintain it's shape in the still unlikely event it would roll. In that sense, it is much stronger than the XC70 (unless the XC70 has a boron steel roof and pillars as well). I would go with whatever you're comfortable / familiar with, but if you want safety in an SUV, the XC90 should be at the top of your list.

mirage00

I just installed 5x8 headrest monitors into all four seats without cutting the the bar. They are flush mounted and look as if they came from the factory. It can be done, it just takes some time. I can post pictures if you would like to view.

smhoer

Mirage00, I'd love to see pics of your set-up along with info of what monitors and equipment you used. I plan on adding a system as soon as my XC-90 arrives (next week)

volvomax

The XC90's crush limit is much higher than the XC70's. Also the XC90 is 1000 lbs heavier, most of the weight is in the body.
The XC70 is theoretically harder to roll, but RSC evens out the odds.
If you haven't had a chance to experience RSC in the hands of a professional I heartily recommend it.

As for the Exec, it will not be out until the end of the year.

bigeddy

volvomax: "The XC90's crush limit is much higher than the XC70's."

Meaning, I assume, that the XC90 will redirect more energy before it reaches the limit when crash energy is transferred directly to the passengers. Are there test results available that measure the difference between the two vehicles?

volvomax

According to Volvo the XC90's limit is 78,000 lbs on the roof.
The XC70's is around 30,000 lbs to the roof.

volvobuster

Has anyone seen the September Consumer Reports SUV test? XC90 scored 10th out of 11. They note a problem that has been discussed here. "The four-speed automatic has a noticeable delay between first and second gears." To the good, they considered it "...forgiving and secure in our avoidance maneuver, thanks to the stability control system." They also commented favorably on pre-tensioners at all seating positions, and other safety devices.

For we owners, it's a sturdy, flexible, safe vehicle. For what it's worth, they said my '03 Suburban and '99 Beetle are bags of bolts, yet I've had no major problems with either. The Suburban hasn't had the even the slightest problem.

So we pays our money and takes our pick.

ohiosuv

Just confirms my thoughts; the XC90 is overpriced, plain and simple. Pay the extra money for the "safety" if that makes you feel better (and if you believe it).

Also, just a note. Many of the posters here have complaints about the XC90. Someone pointed out previously that this is just standard for these types of message boards. After about 6 months of reading numerous boards here my response is BULL. Go to the Murano site, for example, and the amount of complaints are significantly less. That's hard to quantify, more just a sense. Nevertheless, my take is that XC90 owners may be trying to sugarcoat the flaws with this vehicle. Not that there are that many, just that for $43K there should be much less complaining.

shadowchaser

The consumer reports report was quite superficial. It emphasized many performance but not safety. If safety was the focus, it would have rated high and the others lower presumably. Having said that, they were right on with the performance. I have the 2.5 AWD and it is very sluggish. It is anything but nimble. I get into my honda odyssey and I feel like I am in a BMW! You get used to the lumbering starts but when you get in another car, it reminds you how sluggish the XC90 is.

As for the key fob. Not only does the little ring come off, but the key always opens in my pocket. To say that it "isn't designed" to be with other keys is ridiculous. It is like saying a radiator that overheats isn't designed to work without overheating. Nobody has just one key and a key that isn't designed to be on a ring with other keys or designed not to have other keys attached isn't well designed. At 45K, I have high expectations.

The headlight switch design...well it sucks. It is "automatic" but you have to remember to have it in one position during the day and another at night to be able to use the high beams. In the horizontal position the regular lights come on at night...great-it is automatic...except you can't lock the high beams!!! What is the purpose of this???? Who remembers to turn the knob? It is just silly.

Fog lights should have an on switch that stays on. It resets every time the car is restarted. I can't be bothered to remember every time.

Dash design. The rubber spaces for pens on either end of the shift area are magnets for dirt and dust. It looks and feels unattractive. There is no good place for coins.

Navigation. There should be a mute. In order to mute the system you have to go through long menus. Whatever it was on the radio you wanted to hear is long over.

Heating/Air conditioning. It really isn't clear how to work this....when to put it on auto or when it is on manual. Since it doesn't read out the internal temperature, knowing where to set the temp dial is hard....When I want it a bit colder, I don't know where to set it cause I don't know what temperature it already thinks it is.

It is a good car but it is very expensive so it is too bad that many features are very disappointing.

jb_shin

Fog lights should have an on switch that stays on. It resets every time the car is restarted. I can't be bothered to remember every time.

Fog light is meant to be used only when there is "fog", isn't it? It is quite annoying to be have a car follow or from opposite direction with fog light when there is no need for it. I believe the switch was designed to "help" the driver just in case he/she has forgotten to do so.