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As far as sticking it to military families, I am sure it is just a supply and demand thing. I really doubt that they charge you more just because you are in the military. Dealers do tend to stick it to young and inexperienced people more the more established credit types. That being said the military has a serious problem with troops over extending their credit and getting into some real problems. It is actually worse among officers than enlisted.
a sedan with stability control in New Jersey. Opinion may be uninformed and may have personal bias. Doc fee is not included in calculation. Camry price includes VSC and floor mats.
Price for Camry SE-V6:~$23273(no tax),~$24902(w. 7% tax)
Price for Accord SE-V6:~$20650(no tax),~$22095(w. 7% tax)
Difference: ~$ 2800
Advantage/disadvantage:
1) Camry: a new model year design car with one more airbag(knee). Driving feel: handling is soft. A good family car. In some states, hard to get VSC except in XLE. Some owners reported transmission "spiking" problem and have to replace transmission. Best price, $100 over invoice.
2) Accord: End of its current model year design but engine is well proven-in. Legendary reliabilty (have heard of >300K miles with highway driving)and safety record. Only V6 has VSC. Wide Michelin tires. Disc brake on all 4 wheels. Driving feel: very sporty and peppy, merged easily into highway traffic. 120W radio with 6 disc CD changer. Fun and pleasure to drive. Best price, $900-1000 below invoice.
I am leery of buying because transmission problems people have posted. Are they still having problems at this time or have they been corrected? Any answers you may have can be sent to me at coupster@adelphia.net
Invoice $ 19605.00
like to know if that is a good quote also with the year coming to an end will i get a bit of break if i buy the car in 2007?
Thanks for your Help and information
coupster, I don't know if you had noticed, but there have been NO new complaints made here about new or late build transmissions in either the 5 speed or 6 speed. I've had my 5 speed (the same tranny you'd be getting) since early last summer and had never experienced the hesitation some complained about, however, with the new ECM calibration effective since early october.... No new owners here have complained. Also, with the TSB for the ECM recalibration... nearly all have reported resolution.
That said, I think you can buy with the confidence in which you are looking for. However, my advise is if you so choose to do so... make sure the car you buy is a late build... specifically built in late October or later. Thus all TSBs would have been integrated into the finished product.
1) Camry: a new model year design car with one more airbag(knee). Driving feel: handling is soft. A good family car. In some states, hard to get VSC except in XLE. Some owners reported transmission "spiking" problem and have to replace transmission. Best price, $100 over invoice.
2) Accord: End of its current model year design but engine is well proven-in. Legendary reliabilty (have heard of >300K miles with highway driving)and safety record. Only V6 has VSC. Wide Michelin tires. Disc brake on all 4 wheels. Driving feel: very sporty and peppy, merged easily into highway traffic. 120W radio with 6 disc CD changer. Fun and pleasure to drive. Best price, $900-1000 below invoice. "
Just to add/correct...
The Camry also has 4 wheel disc brakes, its' base stereo has 160 watts CD/MP3/WMA playback (optional 440 WATT CD changer/MP3/WMA stereo with bluetooth), Merges just as if not easier than the Accord, and has the highest possibly safety ratings for front and side impact collissions. Subjectively, the handling/ride of the SE is firm, but not jarring, decent steering wheel feedback, and a better highway cruiser (longer wheelbase).
the invoice price is 19605 and MSRP 21395. how do you know that if there is a possibility of any further breaks in the deal. thanks once again for your information
do you think that price will go down a bit if we purchase in 2007?
November 4 purchase
Lexus ES Transmission Problems
If you are that concerned about the price of the car you should not be buying a new car in the first place.
The wisest thing would be to buy a used car and hold it for a while.
Maintenance and gas will almost always be cheaper than the extra you pay to buy used.
No need to take out a $20,000 loan that already sounds like you can barely afford.
That is just unwise.
Guam is small and you should be able to get good advice--especially since there are families leaving all the time.
I hope other readers will benefit from your opinions as well.
Yeah, I guess Toyota makes the transmissions for Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Hino, Isuzo, Daihatsu, Yamaha, Nissan, Mazda, GM, DailmerChrysler, Ford, Volvo, Renault, Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Daewoo.... too, lol. Perhaps you should look up Aisin Warner. And btw, Toyota South is NOT a dealer either. To think Toyota or any Automotive company manufacters every single piece in their cars/engines/transmissions without the use of vendors and suppliers is hilarious. Keep up the great research though.
Would you care to enlighten us on just what Toyota South is?
Do you have a link to prove it?
"To think Toyota or any Automotive company manufacters every single piece in their cars/engines/transmissions without the use of vendors and suppliers is hilarious. Keep up the great research though."
Did I say that? I don't think so. You're skewing my words. I am well aware that COMPONENTS are supplied by vendors. The transmission design and assembly of THIS transmission is handled by TOYOTA, not Aisian Warner. Thank you for the compliment on my research, and here's your proof, just scroll down a few paragraphs for information on the TOYOTA built transmissions for the NA built CAMRY at TOYOTA'S West Virginia plant:
Toyota expanding plants in North America
Yeah, I guess Toyota makes the transmissions for Honda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Hino, Isuzo, Daihatsu, Yamaha, Nissan, Mazda, GM, DailmerChrysler, Ford, Volvo, Renault, Audi, BMW, Hyundai, Daewoo.... too, lol.
WoW, I don't know if this is a private debate but how do you take the comment that Toyota builds its own transmission to suggesting then that they make them for every other mgfr listed???
A lot of transmissions and engines are built here in West Virginia, using parts supplied by vendors I'm sure. Is it possible that they are using a different vendor for a part of the transmissions built by Toyota?
You two seem to be arguing along fine lines that don't intersect.
I went to Longo Toyota in El Monte, CA, on Christmas Eve and got an out-the-door price (TTL + $10 tire fee) under $21,000 for a 2007 Toyota Camry LE automatic. MSRP was $21,594 (that would have been out-the-door $23,630) - this included floor/cargo mats, but I didn't take the $500 alarm. FYI, dealer invoice shows $250 over the invoice you would get on the major car web sites (Longo adds $250 for advertising, detailing, etc., but they told me every Toyota does that). Make sure you test drive the exact same car you buy - I wanted to feel comfortable with how the car drove with all I'm hearing about hesitation and a finicky transmission even with the 4 cylinder (Toyota's only publicly admitted about the V6 problem as far as I know).
I feel like I'm driving a very fast tank - it bounces from side to side in an uneven freeway lane at high speeds (went from L.A. to San Diego last night), and you definitely hear road noise at these speeds with average pavement, but it feels very solid and well-protected (excellent safety ratings front and side impact). I get a cockpit feeling when I elevate the seat a bit, and at times, I feel like I'm on a very fast horse which wants to go faster than I want it to. I still want to learn the quickest way to go from a stop to 40mph without dropping lots of fuel, but I'm hoping the car will learn how to do it. Still learning how to corner and U-turn at a decent speed, since I can do it well with an earlier Camry. (Please don't drive into a pedestrian.)
Overall I'm pretty happy, although I think they can improve on the above issues with future models. I felt very well taken care of at Longo (I like the fact that these guys have some pride and you don't feel like you're keeping food out of the mouths of their babies, but at the same time don't automatically peg you as a rich Californian with money you can pull out of your house), but in my opinion, you shouldn't expect to see a really good price unless you did your research and have really shopped around and talked with friends who have also purchased Camry's recently in the area.
Good luck!
-a_rabbit
I have a Camry TCH. If I was in the market for a V6 I'g go with which one gave me the best deal as they are both great cars. In the world of used Honda's I don't think a model year change will affect the used prices much 4 years down the road (1 to 2 years maybe).
I've never been able to deal well on a Honda, thus I've never owned one. Recently I wanted a Civic for my son and there was none on the lot to look at and the next truck load was sold. That speaks well for them, but I bought a Scion Tc and don't regret it. They gave me a great deal and my son loves the car. There is something about an economy car being "limited" that I don't understand the corporate logic. I'd think Honda would want to make all they can sell rather tahn sell all they can make and gear up for that. Maybe GM and Ford could buy the Civic brand and then they could sell millions of them to up their corportate fuel averages enough to keep selling 13mpg F150's / Silverados forever.
Hummm, I think I have been rambling
That's an interesting (wierd) comparison feeling like a tank and a fast horse?
I still want to learn the quickest way to go from a stop to 40mph without dropping lots of fuel, but I'm hoping the car will learn how to do it.
I wouldn't count on the car learning this. I believe that's your job
Still learning how to corner and U-turn at a decent speed, since I can do it well with an earlier Camry.
Wow, where do you live that you need to learn to do U-Turns at decent "speeds"? Oh never mind, I see you're a rich Californian. That's probably a typical traffic manuver in your area.
As for U-turns, I live somewhere where I can't make a left turn out of the apartment complex. I need to make a right, then pull up to the left-turn lane, and make a U-turn to go the other way. The other Camry I've driven can do it really well, but for this one, I still have to learn.
As for going from a stop to 40mph, I'm hoping the car will break-in to a certain extent AND I learn it well enough to do it without dropping lots of fuel. C'mon, give me some credit.
There is definitely a "dead zone" for the gas pedal. I have a really light foot because I like to save gas and baby the engine. If you press down on the gas for a bit (like 1 or 2 millimeters?), nothing will happen. Once you get past the magic distance, the car will respond. I test drove three 2007 Camry LE automatics, and they're all like this.
I've driven an earlier Camry and Civic, and neither of these have this issue - they all do something with the same touch on the gas pedal. I'm hoping it's a new-car issue, but I'll get used to it even if it isn't.
It's quite possible that forthpoliceman and I have taken each other out of context, and the bottom line is that the subject 6 speed transmission is designed, specified, and assembled by Toyota in a Toyota factory. Aisin Warner might be a component supplier for this transmission, but Aisin Warner did not design and build this 6 speed transmission. If Aisian Warner had designed and built this Camry V6 6 speed transmission, it would not be having any problems. Check the Ford Fusion 6 speed transmission, designed and built by Aisin Warner, it is not having shift flare problems. Aisin Warner designs and build very good tranmissions.
I have emailed 10 dealers and have received various quotes on the same model. (LE with floor mats). None have been as close as fitzmall but I live on the Michigan/Indiana state line, thus using their prices as a baseline.
Do I forward emails from other dealers with quotes to those who are asking for them?
I see there is no response yet. I'm not into Internet shopping for my cars so I've been watching several threads on this. This is a whole new set of ethics (as if car salesman had ethics;)).
I can see where they want you to "prove" you have a real offer, especially once you get down to the price range they normally would not go beyond. Most only want to compete with local dealers. They can't (or won't) compete with say Fitzmall, when that's 1000 miles away. They give you that deal and you tell friends then everyone will show up with emails from Fitzmall. Many local small dealers can't afford that.
Fitzmall can give you those prices because they are a volume dealer. You buy, drive away and they never see you again. The local dealer and his staff of salesperson has to make a living selling significantly less cars. They have overheads, usually a mechanic shop and auto body shop. (I'll have to say at this point anyone who does this type of shopping should never complain about Walmart moving into their neighborhood and putting small business's out of business.)
I've always bought with the "total" dealership offerings taken into consideration. The service after the sale is as important to me as the deal. Internet purchases, assuming you simply go with the lowest price, take that consideration out of the deal.
Humm, after looking at what I've wrote, my NEW opinion on this is that any dealer that participates in Internet pricing deserves what they get, so share the emails and work for the cheapest price.
I believe these dealerships do a disservice to their sales staff and ultimately they will put the small dealerships out of business, much like a Walmart. Perhaps that's OK.
So.... I sent out four e-mails this morning, each of which was personally adressed to the Internet Managers of the respective dealers, requesting their lowest OTD quote.
I was friendly; I included my full name and phone numbers; I provided the date I'll be ready to buy (Dec. 29th); I provided a clear, detailed list of the car/options I'm looking for (Camry XLE V6 with HD; SK; NV; P2; VS; FE; WL; CF; and MG); I let them know that I'm willing to wait if it needs to be preferenced or ordered; I informed them that I wouldn't be trading in anything; and I asked that they contact me via e-mail at this point, even though I provided them with my phone numbers.
I concluded with a request for their lowest OTD quote, and let them know I looked forward to hearing from them.
I'd like to be able to say that I've heard back from each of them, but ....
.... that's not the case.
I recieved one e-mail back informing me that he wouldn't have the car until late January, and to contact him for an appointment (translation: Come in to the dealership). Uh, no. Sorry. That defeats the entire point of the Internet Department!
I wrote back thanking him for his rapid response, and reiterated that I'm willing to wait for the car to be ordered; I realized going into this that he may not have the car on the lot. I said that though I may not DRIVE the car off the lot on Dec. 29th, I can make an AGREEMENT by the 29th, and since he's the Internet Manager I'd prefer to make my "appointment" right here, via our respective computers.
This is what just arrived (his CAPS, not mine):
WOULD NEED TO ADD THE ITEMS YOU ARE REQUESTING,IN THE HOPES THE FACTORY WILL ACCEPT THEM.iT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO GIVE YOU A PRICE ,SINCE I WOULD NOT HAVE MY COST AVAILABLE TO ME UNTIL THE CAR SHIPS IN LATE JANUARY.BASE PRICE WITHOUT VS,WL, MG AND P2 WOULD BE IN THE $30,000.00 RANGE BEFORE FEES.i CANT ADD ITEMS TO CARS UNTIL I HAVE A FIRM COMMITMENT TO BUY THE CAR.HOPE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THEE PREDICIMENT I AM PUT IN.
It seems like a Catch 22 to me, but I'm not familiar enough with the logistics of the business to know if it's accurate or not. AND ... his "base" price is a lot less base than mine! According to my research the invoice price, with options (not including TTL) is under $28,500. Am I that far off in my calculations??? What's the next step with an e-mail like this? Is this where the "back and forth" part I've heard so much about begins - and if so, what do I say - or is it the end of the discussion?
I've not heard from any of the other three dealers I e-mailed.
Perhaps my expectations were/are unrealistic; maybe it takes DAYS, not hours, to hear back from these guys (or gals).
What if NONE of the other dealers respond!?!? Truthfully, I'd not even considered that possibility. Ugh.
The only vehicular card I've left in my pocket is with my local AAA and their Car Purchasing Program. I spoke with the gentleman several weeks ago (he's the fleet manager with a local Toyota Dealership). I was hoping to at least have an idea of what other dealers are offering if/when I spoke with him next.
This is my only day off until Friday, and I was hoping to get at least a good start on my diologues - heck, I was even thinking I may have made a concrete deal today! - but at this rate ... not much is happening. At all. Bleh.
Anyways ... I was just checking in with those of you who have experience in matters such as this. Feel free to let me know if my exectations are a bit out of allignment (bad pun, I know) and I'll adjust accordingly. Or if there are options I have of which I am unaware.
I thank you in advance, as always.
A bit disappointedly,
Catherine
From my experience, Fitmall of Chambersberg is no different then the local dealership. It is not a big "Mall" as one would think... It as a "normal" service department that serves it's patrons in Chambersberg area. Their agents work on "salary" not commission... so the dealership works similar to the Saturn dealership.
Through Edmunds and KBB on the Internet, we all know how much the dealers are making on each car... and they make even more on holdbacks and bonuses.
Fitzgerald has cut out all the B.S. and has posted the minimum what they want to make on the car. This way... We both win.
You as a Buyer have to determine how far you want to go in order to save a buck.
I have been told that people have flown in from Alaska to buy at Fitzgerald of Chambersberg... then drove back!... wow that's over 4000 miles!
It all comes down to how much effort you want to put in to getting a great deal.
Handing a local dealer a copy of a Fitzmall print out, when you are 500 mile away, only fools yourself when they know you will not drive the distance to buy the car.
..... but if there is a difference of $1000 to $2000 ... It might be worth your time.
Lucky fo me, I was only a few hours away... but for the seven hours of driving time it was worth the money I saved over the dealers in my area.
If you do not or can not put in the time... then you might have to settle for a local dealer quote... and live with it!
Gampa
That said, I'm not familier with the option codes offered in the US, but it's an XLE, and I assume loaded> If so, let me know, and I'll ask around in other forums for prices paid for a loaded XLE in California.
Anyways, hope you begin to get the results you hoped for.
James.
Congratulations on such a speedy, smooth and sweet sale! I'm glad it went so well for you. Very cool. It was situations such as yours which set my expectation to the rather high side ... perhaps I'll have a similar story to share soon. :-)
James, you're right ... I'm a bit disappointed/disillusioned (though being that it's my first day in the proverbial ring, I can't really complain. Yet). The Internet way appeals to me, though I'm certainly open to other options - I just wanted to avoid driving all over when I had all the information and resources I need right here, and they've got an Internet Department right there. Guess it's possible I may have to get my keys out and start drivin', eh?
You are correct, I want an XLE, and I want it loaded.
The following are the codes for the options I'm looking for:
NV: Navigation w/ Bluetooth
P2: Satellite Radio (I'm presently a Sirius subscriber)
HD: Heated Seats
SK: Smart Key
VS: Vehicle Stability Control
FE: 50 State Emission (there's no charge for this)
WL: Wheel Locks
CF: Carpet/Trunk Mat Set
MG: Mud Guards
I appreciate your offer to look into the other forums in which you participate. Thank you! I'm just a bit disappointed that with all of the research, reading, and reviewing I've done - I really was/am excited at this process! - I'm suddenly feeling like such a novice.
Sincerely,
Catherine
Ask the one that replied to have some one show him how to work the "Model Cost simulater" and if he can't figure out how to use it ask him if there is some one there that can.
Might follow up the emaisl with a phone call as well.
I am a female, work in health care (surgery) and work long hours. I do not want to haggle with a salesperson who tries to sell me unwanted/unneeded warranties, options, etc. I am sure we can all add to this paragraph.
I also have a very close friend who owns a Mitsubishi dealership (out of state) and last I checked, his salary far exceeds mine. I do not think that automobile salespeople have gotten a reputation for being the honest, trustworthy people they have gotten by being just that. Honest and trustworthy!! If this were true, this forum would not exist.
I personally do not feel guilty for shopping around to get the best deal for my money. I will research and purchase my next car from the comfort of my home. Why shouldn't this be just as positive of an experience? It cannot be any worse than my last experience, (salesperson wasn't employed there two weeks after purchasing my current Toyota.)
I emailed a few dealers yesterday and have received scanned business cards, salespeople calling me at work when I specifically asked them to contact me via email, inquiring who is offering me what prices, etc. I have personally never received these types of tactics at Walmart, nor do I expect them there. I most often get a decent product for a fair price. When I get an incredible buy I am overly satisfied. And yes, I have even used another competetitor's ad to receive their pricing as they do price match.
Now that I have felt compelled to defend my reason to shop via internet, I guess I will share pricing with the dealers.
2007 Camry LE w/PV5 & XY7
MSRP 22369
Paid 20866
+ TTL
+ 399 ADM (Mandatory)
+ 6.50 Tire/Battery Fee
You've read me wrong. I've had probably 30 good and 5 to 7 great experiences dealing with car salesman. I don't work as a saleperson but if I did I would be upset with the way the business was heading. Personally it has no impact on me.
As for internet car shoppers we're not trying to do anything other than trying to get the best deal possible
I have no problem with that either. I was simply making a point that many people that are upset at the Walmarts of the world for putting local businesses out of business still think nothing of participating in that process. Me, I shop at walmart. Mom and Pop need to be in a different business if they can't compete. That's the American way. However there are hundreds of thousands of Union members that are upset with Walmart. Last I heard there was no Union for car salesmen. Oh well, they probably won't be around much longer.
It goes on in all businesses. Take the Insurance business. Used to be rich insurance men owning their business, not you've got trained telemarketers for AIG and the like selling insurance for "the man". Cheaper insurance for the masses is a good thing.
My point is more and more Americans are getting less of the American Dream. Am I bitter. Nope, I got my piece of the pie and am doing quite well. However I do sadly look at the passing of the American Dream for many less fortunate.
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Unfortunately the "working poor" will be the biggest contributor to their demise.
Sorry about the "ethical joke, just a poor sterotype comment on car salesmen. I have two really good friends that I have bought my last 8 cars from and they are ethical and honest. But I know in that business they will take advantage of the unknowlegable, and there are indeed stupid people buying cars every day.
Maybe it will be a good thing when all cars are like Saturn and the price is what it is and the trade is all you negotiate.
As for dealerships that have a good internet department they know that sometimes people don't want to be passed around and spend several hours wrapping up a deal, they want to know what the price is and get the deal done quickly.
The only reason my deals have taken a while has been to get the trade in settled and then to do the paperwork. The "deal" never takes me more than a half hour. The paperwork should be the same for you or I reguardless of how we got our price.
I'm sorry but this comment simply tells me you are now blindly going into your dealership. I guess if you don't talk to them they can't promise you anything to be disappointed with down the road???? Purchasing online will not help you avoid a bad dealership.
I do not want to haggle with a salesperson who tries to sell me unwanted/unneeded warranties, options, etc. I am sure we can all add to this paragraph.
I'm probably not nearly as busy as you. However in the dealings I've had it never took me more than say 2 seconds to say "No".
I personally do not feel guilty for shopping around to get the best deal for my money.
And you shouldn't. This is America and it's your right to spend your money in any way you see fit. I think it's your responsibility to yourself and your family to not needlessly waste your money.
I have personally never received these types of tactics at Walmart, nor do I expect them there.
Walmart uses no tactics on Consumers. They simply pressure the vendors for lower prices to pass along the savings to the consumer. They are big enough to get by with it and they are big enough to survive while their competition goes out of business. Toyota really does not care if there is a Mom and Pop dealership as long as their cars and trucks are being sold. Actually if Toyota cared about how the cars were sold they would never put up with the things I've read on this forum from buyers in the SouthEast Region and some of the other areas. I don't feel sorry for Toyota and if I lived in one of those areas where dealers gouged consumers I would not own a Toyota.
Now that I have felt compelled to defend my reason to shop via internet, I guess I will share pricing with the dealers.
As I said, I agree with that! These dealers deserve no better than what they participate in themselves so I see no reason that their offers should not be shared in the pursuit of a better price. However I would try to consider where I buy from, so that ultimately you do get a good dealership even if it costs you a few dollars extra.
When my Infiniti needed service the dealer came and picked the car up at my house (120 miles away). If I was as busy as you are then I would not want to drive to another town for my service unless it saved me a lot of money.
Toyota's seem to be a little different than a GM or Ford car as when you order one of those they will place your order exactly as you want it. From what I've read on these postings Toyota can indeed build your car if you wait, but most dealers are taking orders and then finding a vehicle from the regional allotment. Works as well and is quicker but they may not get exactly what you want.
I would assume that you need to put in your email that you want the exact car described and that you want to order it and have a FIRM offer (you'll need to go into the dealership to sign for that). If they find exactly what you want that's OK, but that's all you'll accept. If they have to trade with a dealer and have additional charges for delivery let them know you'll simply wait for the one you ordered.
I will have to say I'm glad my car deals have been fairly easy. If I had to put up with the #$$@ that many of the posters have gone through just attempting to purchase a Toyota I would never have bought one (I've bought 8).
My dealings with Ford, GM, Nissan, Audi, BMW and Infiniti have ALL been painless.
For some reason, I'm not seeing a lot of price discussions on this particular car. Does anybody else want to share a price paid? Not surprisingly, since we're comparing it to the Lexus, we're looking at the Hybrid with the leather, nav, etc.
What can I expect on this car? Is it going for close to MSRP? Edmunds seems to suggest (TMV thingie) that it goes for over MSRP. Are there deals to be had? What is a reasonable expectation?