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Comments
So, that being the case, one has to wonder about the Pilot (and MDX) as tow vehicles...
I would hope, that Honda would offer an AWD system similar to that found on the Subaru H-6 VDC. Unlike other Subarus, that car has a normal front-to-rear power split of 45/55, with more power (by default) going to the rear wheels. It can also shift power fore and aft, as well as left to right, as need be. Also, the Mercury Mountaineer with AWD, has a 35/65 power split. I would think either of these vehicles AWD systems, at least theoretically, would be better suited for towing.
Speaking of towing: Does anyone know what the tow package costs? The salesman whom I spoke to thought it was around $1000.00, which if true, is outrageous! That is MUCH higher than other SUV tow packages.
Frankly, I think the tow package should be standard on the Pilot. The new Ford Explorer comes standard with a Class II hitch, with a Class III hitch optional. I think(?) the new TrailBlazer also comes standard with a trailer hitch. So should the Pilot.
Bob
Like other vehicles with an armrest embedded in the center position, the MDX's middle/middle comfort isn't perfect, but I think it's quite acceptable. It isn't overly hard, just the usual fact that there's a lump. There's a good amount of padding in the "bottom" of the armrest (the part that faces your back if you sit in the middle/middle. So it's not a hard lump.
For folks with children under 80 lbs or even 100 lbs sitting in the middle/middle, I'd recommend a belt-positioning booster seat. E.g. Britax makes some that go up that high. Granted that some kids won't tolerate a booster at a more advanced age. But the roof-mounted middle/middle belt on both the Pilot and MDX can make, depending on the shape/size of the child, the belt go dangerously close to the child's neck. YMMV.
-mike
No more "Minivan Mom" for you. If you ever in NY
drive on by.
-Tom
-mike
Is this necessary and worthwhile? What are your thoughts? What are other people's experience with Honda Care?
I am cosidering not buying one, and save money.
Read the exclusions with a fine-tooth comb and I've read elsewhere that you buy this at any Honda dealership so it pays to shop around. Honda Care will send you periodic mailings offering their warranty to you as well but at the "MSRP" rate, which was around $1200.
---Long rant warning---
1) After an independent service shop [Steve's Independent in Northridge, CA] diagnosed a slipping transmission, they tried to get me a replacement tranny but Honda Care couldn't sell them one so the shop referred me to the local Honda dealer. Dealer's chief mechanic said it wasn't slipping "enough" to warrant a replacement yet he recommended 3-4 tranny fluid drain and refills [why he didn't recommend their power flush/drain which would do it one shot, I have no idea]. After reporting this back to my service shop, they actually called the dealer themselves: the service manager ended up calling me with an apology and I finally got my tranny replaced.
2) Power window was about to die [making loud, creaky noises and taking longer to work]: dealer ordered a replacement motor but I had to pay for the "window seal" since Honda Care did not cover this item: cost was $200 out of pocket I believe.
Like I said, my dealer experience soured me on Honda Care but your mileage may vary. Good luck!
regards,
Steve
"As we all know, the Pilot is essentially FWD... I've always been told that FWD vehicles are not good for towing."
"So, that being the case, one has to wonder about the Pilot (and MDX) as tow vehicles..."
You're comments amount to Pilot bashing and I second foodsalesguy - post #2695: "Enough of the Pilot bashing... If it's not for you move on!"
You combine misinformation (Pilot is not FWD, it is AWD - transferring as much as 50% of torque to rear wheels on demand), and traditional advice that FWD vehicles aren't best choice for towing and conclude, by implication, that you can't tow with a Pilot or MDX, or would suffer dark unspecified consequences.
I know little about towing, and have limited experience with towing, but I do know that the loads (vertical-tongue load and horizontal-trailer weight) should not exceed the manufacturers recommendations and that excessive tongue load will cause the steering problems you describe with any vehicle, front or rear or four wheel drive, because it will lift or reduce load on the front wheels.....can't stear, can't drive.
I usually avoid responding to inflammatory posts (and by the way I get along with gm-lito), but the lack of more experienced posters stepping in to correct your flawed propaganda requires me to comment.
I have read your posts from way back, possibly as far back as the original Ody forums, and have thought that your comments were reasonable....til this post.
"Enough of the Pilot bashing... If it's not for you move on!"
I won't try to sell you on the virtues of Warranty Gold and/or other extended warranty companies as there's another site in the Town Hall that discusses pros and cons. I've only had experience once with a claim and so far so good. I was thinking of doing the same thing (waiting until I got to 35K miles)with my Pilot if I continue to be satisfied with Warranty Gold.
As you've stated my posts that you've read have been reasonable. That post is no different than any of the others. Anybody who knows me, and has been following my posts here and elsewhere knows that I don't "bash," and am not a troll. That's not to say if I don't like something, I won't comment, because I will.
This is an open discussion of the Pilot—where both positive and negative opinions are shared. It's not just a "Pilot Fan Club."
BTW, the Pilot IS FWD, with an On-Demand 4WD system. It is NOT AWD, as you stated. At best, it can be described as a part-time AWD, not a full-time AWD.
Bob
I've asked on a few posts for some feedback on the CD changer costs and/or cost for after market seat heaters. Have any of you other Pilot owners that have taken delivery added the in dash CD changer or inquired about the cost of Seat Heaters. I've provided my findings on CD changers on other posts but was hoping for some additional input.
Thanks
If you're looking for general feedback on aftermarket equipment, you may get better responses from the folks over in the Audio and Electronics forums.
As for seat heaters, I had a set installed in my CR-V for about $300. I'd be careful doing the same with the passenger seat in the Pilot. The seats have sensors linked to the function of the side airbags.
So, buyer beware, read the fine print, it will pay off. I know I'll read it on my next long term warranty contract.
I'm a mere 6'1" and I've had similar issues with seeing out the top of the windshield; particularly at stop lights. I haven't driven the same vehicles on your list, but I didn't notice a problem in either the HL or the Pilot. Don't quote me on this, but I think that the HL has a lower cowl (something that is typically a Honda trait). That's another aspect of visibility that I like.
Was the $300 for both front seats or just the driver's seat? I too had heard about the sensor issue and will steer clear of it on the passenger seat.
I should start charging admission. <<<duck>>>
Here's the skinny on the seat heater. I had them installed on my '99 CR-V at the same time that I had aftermarket leather done. Since the seats were already taken apart for the change of fabric, I may have gotten a deal on the installation. The job was done by Auto Leather Interiors in Baltimore. I dunno if they'll sell the heaters alone, but I've gotten good follow up service from them.
The unit I got has been approved by GM for use in their vehilces. This just means that they passed some kind of independent testing and I have some assurance (other than the manufacturers) that they aren't likely to set fire to the vehicle.
The heaters have dual settings (hi and lo) and include both the cushion and seat back. The price I quoted includes both the driver and passenger's seat.
I'm not saying the pilot is good or bad for towing, but was more commenting on FWD v. RWD for towing.
Bob is correct about the Pilot being FWD, even if you lock it in, you can only go 18mph...
-mike
However, my Integra has some of the best halogens I've ever seen on a stock vehicle.
How well do the low/high beams light up the world?
Introduction to All Wheel Drive systems
By Eliot Lim
Third major revision: March 2 1997
Last update: February 26 1999 (all other versions obsolete)
"Definitions:
It is important to get the definitions down first, since for any four wheeled vehicle, all wheel drive and four wheel drive literally mean the same thing. Generally speaking "all wheel drive" implies permanently engaged or automatically engaging four wheel drive and "four wheel drive" implies manually engaging, part time four wheel drive."
Article goes on to recommend (section. 11)the type of AWD in Pilot:(on-demand AWD):
"Full time or automatically engaging part time systems are superior from an engineering point of view and gets my vote."
I guess, what I'm trying to say is, if the Pilot headlights are not up to your preference, the bulbs can always be replaced?
Not really, because the Pilot normally operates in FWD. As Paisan mentioned, hooking up a trailer puts a lot of weight over the rear wheels, which are not the drive wheels. The front end (the drive end) therefore becomes lighter.
I think this is reflected in Honda's and Acura's tow ratings, which are lower than most (if not all) conventional RWD-based mid-sized SUVs.
Bob
Did sit in the 3rd row seat and it was very tight, had to spread my legs to fit. (I'm 6'2") Honda claims 30.2" leg room. The seat is adjustable, so is this with the seat all the way back or moved forward? Didn't have a tape measure, but I sat in the back of a Sequioa, and there seemed to be much more room even though they state 29.8" of leg room.
Anyone who tows on a regular basis knows that you really can only tow about 25% less than the suggested weight on tow ratings. You *can* tow to the limit, but not suggested.
-mike
But in introducing the Pilot, Honda is walking into another badge-engineering minefield: The vehicle shares many components with another American Honda Motor Co. Inc. vehicle, the upscale Acura MDX. And both have many parts in common with the Honda Odyssey minivan.
Honda executives argue that the Pilot is more than a rebadged MDX, but the powertrain, chassis and hard-points of the two vehicles are nearly identical. They also are built on the same assembly line in Alliston, Ontario.
Paluch said the Pilot has been re-engineered sufficiently so that there will be few cross-shoppers between it and the MDX.
"We designed the Pilot from the interior out, for a family, while the MDX was designed from the exterior in, for an individual," Paluch said.
The interiors give little away as to their common origins. Honda upped the cupholder stakes by giving the Pilot a dipping sauce holder for the middle-row seats.
Drive went great. Accelerator was a bit sluggish (like varmit's description), but overall I was really impressed. You really don't feel like you're in that big of a vehicle.
I'm still debating the MDX touring versus the Pilot and I think my sensible side is winning. I can think of a lot of things to do with $7,000 besides putting it in a hole (yes, cars are not investments!).
Besides, we're pretty active (biking, camping, dogs, hunting, etc.) and I'm having a hard time picturing my shiny MDX in the woods getting all muddy. The Pilot on the other hand looks ready to go!
One more test drive tomorrow and I'll see for sure. Although I have to agree with Woodard1 - If the Acura dealer where I have my deposit down called and said "your car is ready" I would have a much harder time choosing. Since the MDX is not due until August and the Pilot is ready next week, I think I'll be tucking that $7,000 somewhere else.
Looked at a Highlander as well. Nice vehicle but really a jacked up Camry with a big trunk!
Pilotman - Value is a tricky thing. Here's my answer... yes and no.
It really depends on what you value. $30K is no small chunk of change. At that price, the Pilot lacks a number of things that other vehicles offer (heated seats, moonroof, larger alloys, etc.). So the content to value ratio is only moderate. It's not like the vehicle is stripped, but it certainly isn't luxurious either. If you value the basics, then the Pilot is a great deal. It offers tons of space, three rows of seats, a good engine, standard AWD, and solid construction.
IM not so HO, the Pilot gives you a modest amount of gizmos in a whole lotta vehicle.
As for the market, I suspect that the Pilot will stay at MSRP for at least a year. I doubt it will fall much below that, even when it drops. They are only making 70-80K units per year. I expect Honda dealers could sell 100K without too much difficulty. Unless they up production capacity, there will be waiting lists for a while.
Also, if you know what you want, try Eau Claire, WI or Souix Falls, SD - you might be able to get one shipped.
Good luck.
I guess I feel that there isn't as much competition in the Minivan and Luxury SUV space as there is in the Mid Size SUV space especially with all the other brands in the pipline that will be out in the next year or so. There will be just too many competitors for the Pilot to maintain MSRP too long. I predict within a year they'll start getting discounted.
Pilotman - I figure the center seat is only going to be used for child seats or short trips. Anyone who hates it, can always sit in the third row and stretch their legs out to the side. (depending on total # of passengers). I agree that the seat is uncomfortable, but it's not a big deal for me. YMMV.
On the side steps/running boards issue - I like the looks of them but won't pay the dealer to install them. There are several sites (hondaacuraworld.com is one) that offer Honda/Acura accessories at a significant discount to what the dealers charge. Free shipping, but you have to install yourself. I've seen the instructions for the MDX side steps and they look really easy to install. Don't be scared by the "it has 72 bolts" arguement. Half of them are just to put the brackets together and bolt the brackets to the frame. After that it's just 12 bolts per step. They have not posted the accessories on their site yet, but they do have them.
My thinking is, I requested a Sagebrush green, a late delivery color. I am hoping the excitement of the Pilot subsides a little while the marketing machines of Nissan, KIA, Toyota, and Lexus all get going later this year with their new product in the same segment as Pilot.
On my drive back to N. VA I drove through heavy rain, hail, and high winds that were plaguing VA, DC, and MD. The Pilot drove beautifully. In comparison to the Jeep that I traded, the Pilot was much quieter, smoother, and more refined. The winds did not bother the Pilot and it felt as sure footed as my old Jeep.
The one question I have for other owner's is about radio reception. The Pilot is supposed to have an antenna integrated into one of the side windows. On the drive back to N. VA, I couldn't seem to pull-in many of the stations that I could get in my Jeep with a mast antenna. This morning on my commute I also had trouble getting some of the local DC stations until I got quite close to DC. Has any one else noticed weak radio reception?