If you install a 3rd party hitch w/o the towing package you open yourself up to Warranty Denials due to not having your vehicle "properly" equipped. Honda *could* (I stress the *could* part) deny claims on axles, trannies, driveline stuff etc.
I agree 100%. If I ever do tow anything besides my bikes I plan on buying the coolers from hondaacuraworld.com and having them installed.
My salesman "claimed" that no issues would arise if there were tranny problems with an aftermarket hitch. I know that's a lot of crap, but I truly will not tow without the coolers. He agreed that it would not be a problem.
I have a very difficult time spending $700 for a tow package I have no intention (in the near future) of using when I can get the same needs met for $150.
i am new to the discussion, i will be getting my pilot in early july, i was wondering if there are any problems with getting fog lights installed (or any other accessory) after i have had the vehicle for awhile. thanks!
Was thinking about making a deal on a Pilot EX-L. After all the DIO's, the MSRP was $36,000. Lower Trim, fog lights (although not installed), bumper garnish, cargo tray, chrome mirrors, cargo cover, running boards. Really looked cool but man, do they gouge on DIO's. Anyway, the bumper has two huge holes where the fog lights should go. Apparently $35,595 was not enough in DIO's so the dealer added the lower trim. This meant removing the old fog lights. The fog lights for the lower trim (or at least the housing that fits in the lower trim area) are backordered nationally. Guess they should of checked that before adding the lower trim. They can not give a date on the availability. Could be weeks, could be months. Has anyone had any problems getting the fog lights for the lower trim?
Are other dealers nationwide adding > $5,000 in DIO's at inflated prices and expecting you to pay the full MSRP? I really like the pilot but here in Minneapolis all of the dealers are Option Happy.
We've had the car (truck, whatever) for a week and love it. Satisfies our needs for the extra kids' friends and inlaws on occasion, Honda reliability and pricetag in line w/ comparable (non-domestic) makes. It's quiet, doesn't feel or seem too big when you drive & park, has fine pick up, braking and turning (it's much heavier than our Accord, but feels as nimble). The kids have no complaints in the 2d or 3d row, including the middle seat (granted we weren't driving hours). The interior design, esp. the console, is terrific. AC is very strong & cold, and the stereo does ROCK, as reported here. It's excellent, and I've had no reception issues on mine; have picked up all my favorite public radio stations no prob.
We paid MSRP+ $449 quasi-forced options on our EX-Navi in PA. Our dealer started out requiring $2000 in add-ons but we walked out, only to be called back in by the salesman who "really went to bat for us" (LOL) to get it down to the options we would take (mudflaps, cargo tray, wheel locks)...and then we also added the ext. warranty reasoning that it's the 1st model year... Found one PA dealer in our area sticking to MSRP (thanks Beedee!), but others (in S. Jersey) at up to $4000 in add-ons. My husband will probably install running boards & crossrails thanks to reports here that it's not difficult.
Thanks to all for the great info here, esp. Wmquan & Varmint.
My impressions on 2 honda pilots one was red, the other green. The red one an ex L res I believed msrp at 33,000 and the dealer had not added any dio's. The other one green msrp at 30,500 and I believe it was ex l and they added a protection package at 1500 to bring it to 32,000 and this does not include t.t.l and around that figure you can figure another 1800. Peaking inside and gatherering some eye ball figure of the inside, with the 3rd row seat up you can just about fit maybe a set of gold clubs behid it. With the seats back you had little foot room for your 2nd row passengers.The 3rd row seats could not fit my 105# 5'1" 11 year old son for very long. I still think it looks like a larger version of the crv with the lights in different parts of the suv. My wife look in too and pretty much thought that it was not a suv that compared to our hl. It is more male looking of the two the pilot that is. But looks only impress so far. I did find the dash and the a/c vents to the 2nd set of seats nice. If people think that 3rd row will help in transporting more people, I hope it is not a trip over 30 mins. or so. If they want to spend the extra money to occasionaly use that 3rd row more power to you. I think you can spend your money better elsewhere. I am glad that I have the hl and did not wait for the pilot, I would be a very sad person now. The pilot is not the suv that I could use. The hl fits me to a T. The pilot might fit other posters needs and more power to you, but I would check other options before I plunked down 33000 for a car that I could only use the 3rd set of seats every so often. To pilot owners if it fits your needs good for you. Nothing against the pilot but it seems to me an overprice bigger crv. JUST my H.O.
The problem is how do you prove to them that you didn't tow if you have a hitch? I feel that if they are out to get you and even mention that you don't have the coolers but have a hitch that they'll claim you towed something that was too heavy for it w/o coolers. I'm not saying you will but if you trust your dealer and he's straight up, he won't have any problem putting it in writing I would just think hard before putting it on and the potential problems w/warranty work. With that said, I use a 3rd party hitch on my Trooper from Hidden hitch. I've found that hidden hitch makes the best aftermarket ones for being hidden. Not sure if they have one for the pilot, but when they do, I'm sure it'll be nice and tucked under the bumper with only the 2"x2" box showing under the rear bumper.
On tuesday 6/4 I became the proud owner of a a black LX model. I purchased the car for MSRP with no dealer installed options.
Although I have barely more than 100 miles on the vehicle, I decided to check the tire pressure on a whim. I am glad I did - even with the tires cold all were grossly overinflated at 48 psi !! (the recommended inflation is 32 psi and the maximum is 44 psi). With the exception of this "problem" the pilot has been trouble-free. Radio reception is no different than our other vehicles (camry, integra) and in the LX model the absence of a second row "activity tray" makes the middle seat more comfortable than in the EX.
I am contemplating adding the Honda security system to the vehicle and would like to know if anyone else has an idea of how much this should cost. College Hills Honda is selling the alarm (not installed) for $265.00. According to the official Pilot web page (pilot.honda.com) the retail price of the system is $418.00. Do you think the dealers will honor the $418.00 price or add a further mark up??
90% of the vehicles that come out of dealers have high pressure. The factory over-inflates them so that they don't get out of round if they sit on the lot for a while. It should be fixed during dealer prep but most overlook it.
Try Buerkle Buick/Honda of Saint Paul. I, too, have had trouble with Honda dealers in Mpls. Went to St Paul and have been treated well. They are selling for MSRP and not adding any DIOs. They even have some June-delivery Pilots available...
Our local dealer had one EX-L on the lot unspoken for! We could only drive it about a mile though. I agree with almost everything that has been posted here before. The styling and ride is very nice. The 2nd row center seat is not too comfortable and 3rd row--kids only or adults for very short rides. The column mounted shifter is not a problem but does work a little weird. The 3rd row head rest storage won't take much more than a few small items. We compared it to an ODY on the lot. The ODY has more "cushy" seats and a lot more cargo space with the 3rd row up. The MDX does have some nice features which are missing from the Pilot unfortunately. But it seems that the MDX is more "over done" than the Pilot. Obviously the Pilot is aimed at a different market. The Pilot we saw had about $2500 of DIOs. Surprisingly the salesman said there was room to neg. on that final price. However, after we test drove it another couple (looking in their 60s)test drove it and started doing the paperwork to buy! Oh well. We will take one more look at the MDX and then decide but the Pilot is first choice so far.
The wife and I took a look at the Pilot. The engine and transmission were excellent, and the ride was decent. My wife (this would be her vehicle) was very unimpressed with the interior and exterior. She hated the hard plastic at the top of the doors and all the other cheap looking plastic on the center console area. She thinks the exterior is just plain boring. Oh well, on to other vehicles. We probably will look at the MDX, the 2003 Expedition, or maybe the Lincoln Aviator. She saw the exterior and interior of the MDX and thought there was no comparison to the Pilot. As I had stated during an earlier post, I believe the Pilot is a solid value under 30k. Much over 30k, there are much better looking, luxurious, and feature laden vehicles. Just one man's opinion (along with his wife's)
I got it, Tomsr :-) Paisan, I thought the tires were overinflated at the factory mainly for shipping purposes? Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
They ship em with extra PSI so the tires don't get flat spots from sitting @ port/ship/rail/distribution center/ yards before delivery to the customer the prep department takes off those white plastic sheets, installs the floor mats, etc and are also supposed to check the PSI of the tires. Over inflated is better than under inflated though, IMHO.
Good point - I forgot about all that sitting around time at the ports, etc. I was thinking more in terms of protecting the suspension when they are getting manhandled on and off the trains, ships and semis. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Would actually not protect the suspension as it transfers more road/ramp/bumps to the suspension, whereas a lower psi tire will absorb that manhandling. Ford did this on the Exploders to provide a "soft" ride for customers, of course they under-inflated them giving a nice soft ride, but also built up heat and eventually led to the tires destroying themselves.
For those interested, this system costs $900 and is a Panasonic. Honda charges $1,500 for their system and I have yet to find out who makes it. But a $600 difference is a bit much and you know you're getting a Panasonic.
My wife and I really don't like leather, cold in the winter and hot in the summer. But we do want the nav system. What are our options to add a nav system which is as good as the honda's for under $2000? I saw someone was talking about OEM all-in-one DVD system. Does it also works as a nav system? If it does, that will be ideal.
Several folks have added the Garmin Street Pilot III to their non-NAV MDX's....It doesnt integrate into the dash like the built in unit, but you can neatly mount it and it has most of the same features...What it misses in integration, it makes up in portability (ie take to another vehicle etc...) and it's 1/3 the cost
The system you linked to just has the LCD monitor. No DVD player, no headphones etc. You can add at least $150 to that price for the DVD player and headphones.
I also consider $1500 for the Honda DVD entertainment system to be alot of money, however folks should be aware of just how well integrated the system is. You can listen to any source (radio/CD/tape/DVD) over the speakers, and it doesn't use FM transmission (its all wired in). You can listen to any source through the included wireless IR headphones, and it can be a different source from the source for the speakers. You can control any source from the wireless remote control unit (not just the DVD, but also radio/tape/CD). The roof-mounted screen unit includes an LCD panel that gives you information on the source you are listening to/viewing (same as the head unit). It is covered by the Honda 3-year/36,000 mile warranty. The head unit can control the source for the rear (overriding the remote and flipdown controls in the rear) as well as the front, or switch rear control to the rear. You get additional jacks in the rear for plugging in another audio/video source, such as a VCR or games box.
For some, this level of integration and flexibility of control is well worth the extra $500 or so over an aftermarket installation...
FYI - I own a 2002 Odyssey EX-L WITHOUT the RES...
You might be able to get a Honda NAV system from a salvage. I remember one fella who totalled his MDX by applying a douglass fir to the front end. He was offering the NAV to anyone who wanted to buy it. I'm sure that one has been sold, but, with a lot of patience and some searching, you might be able to find another.
pearsonrj It includes everything according to the description:
The best in DVD multi-media entertainment, all in one simple package from Panasonic. It's all in one box: a headliner-mounted console with a 6.8" flip-down LCD screen, plus a dash-mounted DVD player that also plays CDs. Tie the audio into your existing stereo system, or enjoy the convenience and privacy of the supplied wireless headphones. The kids will love it. With 269,568 pixels and an anti-glare coating, the images from the LCD panel are bright and detailed, both day and night.
TECH TALK:
TFT active matrix LCD Built-in reading lights Manually adjustable tilt angle and left/right swivel RM data terminal connects to DVD player.
BTW, the DVD player can also be mounted under the passenger seat, if preferred. Also, if you look at the picture carefully, the kids have the wireless headphones on and one kid has a remote control for the DVD player, also included.
You make a good point for the flexibility of the Honda system. I cannot say for sure that the Panasonic system would be as flexible, I would have to check that.
guy44 I can find out how much it would cost to install but, I can tell you that it will not be $600.
I found this. The CY-VMX6800U is the monitor for the PKGDVD2 system. It offers the same flexibility that the Honda system does:
BUILT-IN IR TRANSMITTER FOR WIRELESS HEADPHONES
The CY-VMX6800U offers an infrared transmitter that allows your passengers to listen to the sound signal through wireless headphones. This is ideal for use with Panasonic's Private Mode, where the passengers in the front and backseats can enjoy separate audio programs
TWO VTR INPUTS
The CY-VMX6800U also comes with two VTR inputs, making it easy to attach a video game console, DVD player, or other outside video source to your system.
What it does not have is an LCD information panel but Panasonic provides maplights instead It is also in 4:3 aspect ratio, not 16:9. Thus, movies viewed in 16:9 will probably be smaller on this screen.
...is $400.00 (WOW!), which makes the difference around $200.00 between aftermarket Panasonic system and OEM.
So, for $200.00, it might be better getting the OEM system for warranty coverage as stated by pearsonrj (If I could only find out what manufacturer Honda went with...).
I guess Honda priced it about right.
For the do-it-yourselfer, this might be a good, but rather, involved project. At least, there are options.
Oh, and BTW, the VTR connections for the video game systems are on the flip-down monitor, not something installed on the middle console like the OEM. So, you'll have wires from the video game system hanging down from the monitor.
I hope the Hidden Hitch only shows the box. I'm amazed at the amount of Hidden Hitches I see out there with the huge "HIDDEN HITCH" white sticker on the black frame. Not really hidden!
Bengalking - I've seen those hitches, too. There's a write-up on them at another site which shows a pic of the big, white "HIDDEN HITCH" sticker. It all depends on the shape and height of the bumper. Some vehilces hide it better than others. I expect it would stick out a bit on the Pilot.
I haven't heard of the Hidden Hitch before. I want to carry bikes on the Pilot and the salesman didn't know much (as usual). Does anyone know if the Hidden Hitch will work on the Pilot with hitch style bike racks?
The bottom line from an article in the Wall Street Journal.
According to the Automotive Lease Guide:
Pilot LX model will hold 58% of its original sales-price value after three years
38% for an Explorer XLT
42% for a TrailBlazer LT
42% for a Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo model.
Therefore: "the Pilot buyer would have to pay off $6,000 less over three years than someone who leased an Explorer, assuming the lender follows ALG's residual guides"
In fear of a repeat of the damage the Odyssey inflicted, GM has boosted rebates on its new Trailblazer by another $500 to a total of $1,500.
for more information. It has a search for a dealer button. I didn't search for the Pilot, but there is a great deal of information regarding their hitches. Good luck.
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Tell your dealer to not look too hard (or read up on their literature from Honda)...From the beginning Honda has said that Sandstone (and Sagebrush) Pilots will not be available until August...so you won't see them at dealers until August (or maybe september)
They make one for the MDX, so it would be a good bet it would fit on the Honda. I believe there are PDF instructions so you can check the mounting points, etc.
I have purchased a Silver EX at MSRP and no forced options. I have not taken delivery yet (although it has arrived). I got lucky and happened to be stalking the dealership shortly after they arrived. Wasn't sure about that center middle back seat, but decided it wasn't enough not to buy the Pilot. I couldn't find much else wrong with it although I would love the NAV w/o leather.
My question is about the options and the costs. I was considering the running boards ($699) wheel locks ($ 69),the mud flaps ($69) and the fog lights ($ 599). All prices are dealer installed as I am not handy enough to figure out anything but the wheel locks and the mud flaps. Does anyone have any feel for these prices and/or actual dealer costs?
The price for the fog lights I think is rediculous, but not sure about the rest.
Also, has anyone had experience with Warranty Gold. Was considering since it is a new model and all.
This board has been invaluable in sorting out all the Pilot info. Thanks to everyone esp. Varmint and Super Spy!
Get the prices off the inter net, then order the,running boards, the mud flaps and fog lights. Go to a local auto body shop for installation. The hourly rate is half the rate charged at Honda Dealers. $35-$40.00 an hour compared to $70-$80.00 @ Honda.
Fog lights are really an accessory to personalize your vehicle. Unless you get the really bright ones, they are for looks. Although I do see some value to them - the more lights on your vehicle the better you are seen.
Besides collegehillshonda there is hondaacuraworld.com. They have great prices and free shipping (with instructions from Honda). Their running boards/side steps are around $375 and look really easy to install. Same as the mud flaps.
Fog lights are 20 pages of instructions and involve lots of wiring and cutting holes in the bumper. My dealer quoted $300 installed so I'm having them do the fog lights and I'll do everything else.
I have a Yakima bike rack that fits into a 2" receiver - hence the need for an aftermarket hitch. Hitch and rack will be obtained and installed for under $300. Rack will hold four bikes and can convert to a ski rack.
Does anyone think that the consumers may be able to get the Pilot for a little bit less in Aug/Sep. when the new 4-runner comes out? It will have a 3rd row seat, totally remodeled, $ always been popular. This could possibly take some of the demand off of the Pilot. I am set on getting a Pilot but am wondering if timing may make a difference. On the other hand, take the 4-runner factor out of the equation, will the waiting list be even longer for the Pilot if I were to wait two or three months to purchase instead of now?
I agree that fog lights look cool, but unless you're cruising around the Outback at night, their utility is questionable. In fact, in CA, I was told by a dealer that turning on foglights when they are not needed (i.e., when it isn;t foggy) was actually illegal. I guess the premise it that they impair the vision of oncoming traffic.
Comments
-mike
My salesman "claimed" that no issues would arise if there were tranny problems with an aftermarket hitch. I know that's a lot of crap, but I truly will not tow without the coolers. He agreed that it would not be a problem.
I have a very difficult time spending $700 for a tow package I have no intention (in the near future) of using when I can get the same needs met for $150.
crikey - Thanks for the link!
Are other dealers nationwide adding > $5,000 in DIO's at inflated prices and expecting you to pay the full MSRP? I really like the pilot but here in Minneapolis all of the dealers are Option Happy.
We paid MSRP+ $449 quasi-forced options on our EX-Navi in PA. Our dealer started out requiring $2000 in add-ons but we walked out, only to be called back in by the salesman who "really went to bat for us" (LOL) to get it down to the options we would take (mudflaps, cargo tray, wheel locks)...and then we also added the ext. warranty reasoning that it's the 1st model year... Found one PA dealer in our area sticking to MSRP (thanks Beedee!), but others (in S. Jersey) at up to $4000 in add-ons. My husband will probably install running boards & crossrails thanks to reports here that it's not difficult.
Thanks to all for the great info here, esp. Wmquan & Varmint.
-mike
Although I have barely more than 100 miles on the vehicle, I decided to check the tire pressure on a whim. I am glad I did - even with the tires cold all were grossly overinflated at 48 psi !! (the recommended inflation is 32 psi and the maximum is 44 psi). With the exception of this "problem" the pilot has been trouble-free. Radio reception is no different than our other vehicles (camry, integra) and in the LX model the absence of a second row "activity tray" makes the middle seat more comfortable than in the EX.
I am contemplating adding the Honda security system to the vehicle and would like to know if anyone else has an idea of how much this should cost. College Hills Honda is selling the alarm (not installed) for $265.00. According to the official Pilot web page (pilot.honda.com) the retail price of the system is $418.00. Do you think the dealers will honor the $418.00 price or add a further mark up??
Congratulations to all of you new Pilot owners.
-mike
department because they are use to using high pressure?
Good luck!
The column mounted shifter is not a problem but does work a little weird. The 3rd row head rest storage won't take much more than a few small items.
We compared it to an ODY on the lot. The ODY has more "cushy" seats and a lot more cargo space with the 3rd row up.
The MDX does have some nice features which are missing from the Pilot unfortunately. But it seems that the MDX is more "over done" than the Pilot. Obviously the Pilot is aimed at a different market.
The Pilot we saw had about $2500 of DIOs. Surprisingly the salesman said there was room to neg. on that final price. However, after we test drove it another couple (looking in their 60s)test drove it and started doing the paperwork to buy! Oh well.
We will take one more look at the MDX and then decide but the Pilot is first choice so far.
-mike
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
-mike
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
-mike
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
-mike
Thanks,
KC
http://www.gpscity.com/products/garmin/streetpilotiii.html
I also consider $1500 for the Honda DVD entertainment system to be alot of money, however folks should be aware of just how well integrated the system is. You can listen to any source (radio/CD/tape/DVD) over the speakers, and it doesn't use FM transmission (its all wired in). You can listen to any source through the included wireless IR headphones, and it can be a different source from the source for the speakers. You can control any source from the wireless remote control unit (not just the DVD, but also radio/tape/CD). The roof-mounted screen unit includes an LCD panel that gives you information on the source you are listening to/viewing (same as the head unit). It is covered by the Honda 3-year/36,000 mile warranty. The head unit can control the source for the rear (overriding the remote and flipdown controls in the rear) as well as the front, or switch rear control to the rear. You get additional jacks in the rear for plugging in another audio/video source, such as a VCR or games box.
For some, this level of integration and flexibility of control is well worth the extra $500 or so over an aftermarket installation...
FYI - I own a 2002 Odyssey EX-L WITHOUT the RES...
It includes everything according to the description:
The best in DVD multi-media entertainment, all in one simple package from Panasonic. It's all in one box: a headliner-mounted console with a 6.8" flip-down LCD screen, plus a dash-mounted DVD player that also plays CDs. Tie the audio into your existing stereo system, or enjoy the convenience and privacy of the supplied wireless headphones. The kids will love it. With 269,568 pixels and an anti-glare coating, the images from the LCD panel are bright and detailed, both day and night.
TECH TALK:
TFT active matrix LCD
Built-in reading lights
Manually adjustable tilt angle and left/right swivel
RM data terminal connects to DVD player.
BTW, the DVD player can also be mounted under the passenger seat, if preferred. Also, if you look at the picture carefully, the kids have the wireless headphones on and one kid has a remote control for the DVD player, also included.
You make a good point for the flexibility of the Honda system. I cannot say for sure that the Panasonic system would be as flexible, I would have to check that.
guy44
I can find out how much it would cost to install but, I can tell you that it will not be $600.
BUILT-IN IR TRANSMITTER FOR WIRELESS HEADPHONES
The CY-VMX6800U offers an infrared transmitter that allows your passengers to listen to the sound signal through wireless headphones. This is ideal for use with Panasonic's Private Mode, where the passengers in the front and backseats can enjoy separate audio programs
TWO VTR INPUTS
The CY-VMX6800U also comes with two VTR inputs, making it easy to attach a video game console, DVD player, or other outside video source to your system.
What it does not have is an LCD information panel but Panasonic provides maplights instead
So, for $200.00, it might be better getting the OEM system for warranty coverage as stated by pearsonrj (If I could only find out what manufacturer Honda went with...).
I guess Honda priced it about right.
For the do-it-yourselfer, this might be a good, but rather, involved project. At least, there are options.
Oh, and BTW, the VTR connections for the video game systems are on the flip-down monitor, not something installed on the middle console like the OEM. So, you'll have wires from the video game system hanging down from the monitor.
-mike
According to the Automotive Lease Guide:
Pilot LX model will hold 58% of its original sales-price value after three years
38% for an Explorer XLT
42% for a TrailBlazer LT
42% for a Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo model.
Therefore: "the Pilot buyer would have to pay off $6,000 less over three years than someone who leased an Explorer, assuming the lender follows ALG's residual guides"
In fear of a repeat of the damage the Odyssey inflicted, GM has boosted rebates on its new Trailblazer by another $500 to a total of $1,500.
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1023471938271314280,00.html?mod=home_inside_today_us
None of the dealerships I've been to have even seen it. LA County or Orange County in California.
www.hiddenhitch.com
for more information. It has a search for a dealer button. I didn't search for the Pilot, but there is a great deal of information regarding their hitches. Good luck.
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
My question is about the options and the costs. I was considering the running boards ($699) wheel locks ($ 69),the mud flaps ($69) and the fog lights ($ 599). All prices are dealer installed as I am not handy enough to figure out anything but the wheel locks and the mud flaps. Does anyone have any feel for these prices and/or actual dealer costs?
The price for the fog lights I think is rediculous, but not sure about the rest.
Also, has anyone had experience with Warranty Gold. Was considering since it is a new model and all.
This board has been invaluable in sorting out all the Pilot info. Thanks to everyone esp. Varmint and Super Spy!
Besides collegehillshonda there is hondaacuraworld.com. They have great prices and free shipping (with instructions from Honda). Their running boards/side steps are around $375 and look really easy to install. Same as the mud flaps.
Fog lights are 20 pages of instructions and involve lots of wiring and cutting holes in the bumper. My dealer quoted $300 installed so I'm having them do the fog lights and I'll do everything else.
I have a Yakima bike rack that fits into a 2" receiver - hence the need for an aftermarket hitch. Hitch and rack will be obtained and installed for under $300. Rack will hold four bikes and can convert to a ski rack.
-mike
I have seen all the other colors but not white.
THANKS
JOE