A couple thoughts on some recent comments: I'm not sure what the consequenses of adjusting headlights up a bit are but...The use of Fog Lights for everyday clear weather driving is just a BAD idea.
This is a real problem for alot of people with vision glare problems and there are TONS of us who will be your oncoming traffic.
Fog lights are intended for Poor Visibility weather ONLY. It wasn't that long ago that the use of them were regulated in some local traffic laws but that has gone away for the most part unfortunately.
Don't get me wrong.. I'm a big believer in them for poor weather. Study's have also proven that using those lights in clear weather actually reduces your distance vision a bit. They light up the road just in front of the vehicle.. not in the distance and this creates a visual focus too closed to you washing out your distance vision a bit. Think about that and test back and forth with them and you'll see what I'm saying.
Moonkat, You are in denial. Read this forum again, like you suggested Karl to do. It will show you Honda Pilot has some problems, more than Honda's reputation would warrant.
I bought my Pilot after six months of research, I knew then that Pilot is not perfect, its quality would be in the lower half of Honda's product lines. It was a compromise of all things considered, Pilot won out only after I lined up my priorities in order. I still believe in my decision, but I am not blind. My pilot has had some minor issues that needed visits to the dealership.
Also, stop blaming suppliers. Even it is a supplier issue, Honda is not off the hook. More than half of the Big Three quality problems are part/supplier related, but I don't see anybody (but themselves) say "It's a supplier problem." Once an automaker signs a supplier, signs off on their parts, it is the OEM's responsibility. You take the glory (and profit), you also take the fall. That's why they are called OEMs.
You post is absolutely correct. Being an engineer, I was very methodical about adjusting the lights up. I even had my father, in a Grand Prix, drive down the road and view the adjusted lights. They were absolutely fine. As a matter of fact, we switched places, and he thought the Grand Prix's lights were more distracting that the Pilot's. The pilot has a SHARP cutoff, while the GP's just produced a general glare. The fog lights also can be adjusted, and we went through the same setup. I even covered the headlights during the adjustments. I have no disillusions that anyone else will go to this effort, but with responsible adjustments, a Pilot driver's visiblity can be improved without affecting oncoming drivers.
Karl's denial is that he bears some responsibility for the problems that befell him and that ultimately he is the one responsible for placing his family at risk.
The larger issue is whether Karl's assertions are truthful and whether he should use his elevated soapbox to broadcast unsubstantiated conclusions.
Sure we've had some issues with our Pilot, but I would still buy it again....and I might so that I can drive one.
I didn't read the article before, but decided it was time to go back and do so based on the discussion that ensued.
I gotta say, that is article is FAR from being "automotive enthusiast website" worthy. The only time he even mentions the Pilot is to talk about it breaking down. Nothing else! We don't know if it still felt comfortable after 6 hours of driving. What kind of gas mileage did it get. He went through all these great lengths to tell us about every little raindrop and snowflake he drove through, but not a WORD on how the Pilot performed through all of this. This article belongs in a travel magazine, not here on Edmunds.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Glad you went to all the effort to insure your headlights are aimed okay. The real point to my post was to inform people that turning the Fog Lights on causes vision problems for many oncoming drivers and to only use them in Poor Weather. The angle of the those lights are not the problem. It's the brightness of them.
Perhapse I'm in a great minority of people who get an extreme Glare from them though. My biggest issue is probably more with drivers who don't pay attention to how their lights are adjusted or who snap on aftermarket junk and have to have the Fogs on because it "Looks Cool".
FWIW... I honestly have not noticed that the standard lights are not up to standard on my Pilot. Mine is only about 2 months old. Is it possible that this area has received some improvements late in the '03 model run? I will say that the headlights in my three previous vehicles were horrible.. so I do know the experience of poor headlights.
I find issue with the fact that an edmund's reviewer didn't know about the recall/TSB. Most of us who participate in these forum's are enthusiasts who follow specific issues with vehicles. I recognize that maybe we get the true less than informed consumer point of view from such a reviewer...however I would rather read such reviews from someone who is involved enough to really pour over a car soup to nuts. At a minimum a reviewer of a vehicle should be required to read through the discussion boards prior to taking a week/month behind the wheel...then they could take away some of the issues that seem to be most important to the consumer base. I understand a prior dealer visit didn't catch it...but I don't have much faith in dealers to do the right thing for the customer.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to think most reviewers are going to memorize the owner's manual much less research TSBs, especially when many TSBs are just stuff like correcting typos or how to use a scan tool.
The recall notice should have found its way to someone, but there's a large fleet of owned and borrowed cars in the garage, so maybe it wound up in a cubicle farm somewhere.
But I like your idea of requiring them to read Town Hall :-)
Then you shouldnt have much faith in Honda either, assuming Karl was telling the truth that Honda did not send edmunds a recall letter. For whatever reason, simply missed it or thought edmunds car was not in the recalled batch (which would explain dealer lookup coming back blank), Honda DID NOT INFORM a customer about a recall.
Karls fault is he blindly trusted a car company to do the right thing all the time. No comany will, not even Honda. He did pick the Pilot over a nicer pacifica, not saying the chrysler would have fared better. His trust was broken, he is mad. Anyone who have bought a problematic big three against other people's advice will attest to that anger. Notice Karl is also mad at Nextel, even more than Honda?
Interesting comment about Reviewer and how they should prepare and research.
On a related note: Our local paper here in Cincinnati had one of the BEST reviewers who wrote the main article in our Saturday "Wheels" section. His name was Alan Vaanderhal (not sure of the spelling of his last name). He wrote some of the most thorough reviews I've ever read and to your points... He often would site information he came across from forums such as this one here at Edmunds. He seemed to like to look for trends at owners forums like the Town Hall at Edmunds.
Then.. mysteriously one Saturday.. I got my copy of the Cincinnati Enquirer and HE WAS GONE! Replaced by various different people every week from the Corporate staff I'm guessing.. Same company as USA Today. I'm REALLY bent over it. This past week we were treated to some woman writing about the new Nissan Z in a "Dear Diary" format. It was painful to read.
I'm guessing it's a money saving issue. Losing my business won't make a difference unfortunately.
Alan Vonderhaar's columns were processed through Gannett News Service, although I don't remember seeing him at my local Gannett owned paper. He wrote for ~30 years; maybe he decided to do something different.
Gannett stills brings us James Healey (that should enliven the peanut gallery, lol).
Always wondered if he was the person cited by Edmond's as munching on free steak at Honda's press review while blasting the shortcomings of the column-mounted shifter?
I'm interested in purchasing a Pilot and this message board is very valuable. Thanks. I do have a question about towing capacity. I'll be pulling a camper trailer (2800lbs) and I know the Pilot is rated at 3500 with towing package. Any experience that I can tap from to help me decide.
First thing that jumped out at me was the 0-60 time on the Honda. I've seen a full second quicker posted elsewhere. Not to mention, going by my unscientific approach, I would attest to it being quite a bit quicker than 8.5 secs.
I also think having a 3rd row gives it a huge advantage over the others, but I do see the problem with finding others to compete against it. And, talking about the 3rd row, I found it strange to mention the tester was a "top-of-the-line EX model ... and a fold-flat 60/40-split third-row seat." That fold-flat seat comes standard in even the base LX model. That comment makes it sound like you only get the 3rd row in a loaded-up EX. Sorry to be picky, but details like this bug the hell out of me.
I don't have a problem with 2nd place, but I do have a problem with a Mitsu being first. (shuddering as I think back on my wife's Gallant)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mitsu's goofy TV ads are enough to turn me off. I know they are supposed to portray young people having a good time; but to me they show and promote irresponsible behavior, behind the wheel. If I had a car full of people jumping around like that, I'd stop the car, and put them all out! Never mind that the vehicle in question, has scored very poorly, in other comparisons that I've read. Cheers Pat
Looking at the specs page of that comparison, the Pilot sure is a lot bigger. I guess I've been spoiled by the Pilot, I can't imagine dropping down to the little Toyota
We may have only got second place, but it still sounded like a good review of the Pilot.
Edmunds is entitled to their opinion like everybody else, but I've driven both the Pilot and Endeavor, and I just don't get it. You really have to prioritize a FEW things the Endeavor does better, to counterweigh the MANY things the Honda does better.
It almost reads like they were evaluating the SUVs like sports sedans. I like good handling in any vehicle, but the primary reason most of us buy SUVs is to haul stuff, carry the family around, go in the snow, tow an occasional load, and generally enjoy a larger, more comfortable vehicle. In these uses, the Pilot is simply a vastly superior vehicle.
Or maybe I just don't understand why people buy SUVs to use them like sedans. I see more and more people buying these things, rather than sedans or wagons, simply because they like the "substantial feel" and "rugged style" of a SUV-type vehicle and have no intention of hauling, towing, snow driving, off-roading, or carrying more than a few passengers. I guess that's why the H2 is selling so well. This comparison may be just reflecting what SUV buyers are buying SUVs for these days. I just don't get it.
I tow a 1700lb trailer with a Suzuki Samauri set up for show for a total of 3900lbs, I do position the Zuk for only 350lb tounge weight, but it pulls it with no problem what so ever. As for gas mileage, Its got 3400 miles on it and we got 19.8 to about 22 on a trip to Florida. Vehicle was packed to the roof in back, two kids and a playstation in back seat and averaged about 82mph. We aren't complaining.
I also took mine to the dealer who said the same thing-a light would come on if there was a problem. Getting crappy gas mileage is not a problem in their world.
I drive in Chicago. No suburbs, lots of stop and go. It still seems outrageous that I would only get 12-14 mpg a gallon but the highway mpg for me is the same as everyone else. I wonder if when people say city driving they mean city suburbs and not real city driving with a light every 50 yards.
City mileage can be a wide ranging thing for alot of people. A lot depends on the way you drive. You know if you drive conservatively or not in stop and go I'm sure but I'm surprised by the habits of some people. I've been in a car with someone who literally floored it when leaving a parking spot and he didn't think it was odd at all. They way he drove around town was literally insane! I never got back in a car with him.
I also see people driving at speed or leaving a stop and their Brake Lights NEVER go out meaing of course, that they drive with a foot resting on the brake. They are getting horrible mileage and wearing brakes out.
Even the EPA says that the MPG achieved by drivers will be within a few MPG of the figure they publish. The number is really a guide to help you decide on purchase. It isn't a goal or minimum threshold.
I know the Pilot comes with a temp spare. My mom wants a full size spare. Will a 235/70/16 tire fit under the vehicle in the spare location? Also, will a 235/70/16 tire fit on the existing spare rim or would a new rim have to be purchased. Thanks for the info.
a 235/70/16 will not fit on the spare rim because the spare rim is not 16".
i have heard folks have swapped to a full-size spare (usually by purchasing an wheel being sold by someone else who went with aftermarket wheels), and have heard nothing about it fitting underneath. So I assume it does, but have yet to get a definite "yes" answer.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I crawled under the Pilot last night and the temp spare has 155/90D16 on the sidewall. Is that not a 16 inch tire? Is there some other naming configuration to temp tires? I guess my question should have been is the spare rim wide enough to support a 235 tire? I don't think so but was wondering if anyone here had done this? Thanks,
I could have sworn I've read the spare rim is not full-size. Well, I don't know what that "D" means for starters. But, in any case, is the width really a concern to you? My concern lies with the height. You would think, with AWD, Honda would give it a full-height spare to prevent straining the powertrain. But they didn't.
So let's assume that spare rim is a 16". I do doubt a full 235/70 would fit. That's about 1 1/2 times the width of what is on there now. Just doing some quick math, it looks like something along the lines of a 185/90 or 180/90 would come close in height, but then you are still left with 3 questions: does such a size exist? would that fit on the spare rim? and would such a wheel fit under the Pilot? I would have no idea where to go to answer those questions. Well, ok, actually, I have an idea where to go ask it and possibly get an answer, but I can't tell you.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
went and read somewhere else that the full-size fits underneath. BUT, nobody has put one on the spare rim. they buy a rim that matches the other 4 on their Pilot.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Thanks for the input, it sounds like we are thinking the same thing. I'll check the Dealer and see what the cost is of a full size spare, someone here said you could get one ordered from them. I agree, you would think Honda would have put on a full size spare.
By standard calculations (depending on what the "D" means), the spare is about 20mm shorter than the standard tire? Perhaps the spare is a higher pressure/more rigid which would then have less flex in the sidewall to make up for the difference in radius (i.e. if the regular tire flexes 3/4" and the spare not at all it would then have the same turns/distance?)
In the purchase of her Pilot my mom also exercised the option of having the dealership have a sunroof installed. Since you cannot get one from the factory yet they will have to send it out and have it done. It will not be a pop up type. The dealership says it will be just like one installed on the line and be covered under the vehicle warranty and even her extended warranty. Has anyone else had a sunroof installed? Pros or Cons?
I had posted about this before, but there is a chance it was one of the messages that was deleted by the hosts for referring to another message board where there are all kinds of pics and lengthy discussions on this matter.
anyway, yes I got one installed. Looks and works great. My only complaint would be the new headliner. Its cloth instead of the factory foam, so I'm a bit worried about sagging in the distant future. If you've ever seen a 70s vehicle with a sagging headliner, you know what I mean. otherwise, most people would not know it didn't come from the factory this way.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It slides into the roof. That's why they need to replace the headliner. The stock headliner is solid foam to the metal and leaves no room for a big piece of glass to slide in there. I gotta say, the moonroof itself (got a Webasto 749) is even better than my stock Volvo unit because it has memory settings and it closes itself when you take the key out of the ignition.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
As far as an aftermarket sun/moonroof for a Pilot it will not be covered under the factory warranty-only installed Honda accessories by the dealership are covered. As far as the extended warranty covering it, it would depend on the warranty company. Normally with aftermarket items they are covered under warranty by the people that installed them and it can either be a lifetime warranty or a limited time (3 years/4 years).
I just picked up my new Pilot from the dealership I work for and was told by another salesperson that our dealership will not install aftermarket sunroofs because of the possible liability and that we do not have a good company in our area to do the work.
Plenty of Honda Dealers do have them installed by an aftermarket shop. My dealer had a couple new Pilots on the lot with them already installed.
Ask your dealer if he offers it as an option and what the warranty will be. If your dealer offers the option, it's probably a good bet that it will be from a shop they have experience with and trust in.
If its a webasto unit, a good installer warrantys it. Webasto actually gives the warranty, but I don't know what good they would do if it started leaking. Anyway, my installer told me if there is every a problem, bring it back and he'll take care of it. Others have said this is the case and they have done it and he's fixed it completely free of charge. So I have no reason not to believe it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So I have had my Pilot for about a month now and close to 2000 miles.
Much like a '95 Accord EX we once had the Pilot is totally competent, totally acceptable and very ....well.....boring.
FWIW, it *IS* my wifes ride and she loves it. So much so that she has not said "MDX" since we bought it.
I however find alot to like about but little to be passionate about. The exterior styling is pretty good, I am getting used to the interior, the radio/DVD controls are too complicated, it is quiet, air is cold, third row is well designed, 5 speed auto trans is fantastic and smooth, ride is mini van like silky smooth but kind of wallows down the road like a fat pig...
My ole' '96 Isuzu Trooper (that we traded in with 127k on it) had more soul. I had a relationship with that truck for whatever reason, Pilot is just more of an appliance. I do not wake up early Saturday morning to wash the can opener.....
Same as the Accord mentioned earlier. On paper and for Joe Sixpack it had everything my current '95 BMW 318i has (except it was an automatic) and I never felt any joy or exceitement in driving it. The BMW I love and don't even get me started on my darling Miata.
So in conclusion, Pilot is very adequate but fails to stir any emotion in an automotive enthusiast.
I've shattered my pilot driver side quarter window and would like to know if anybody can point me to a place or site to get a cheap replacement. I live in the LA area. I've called all the dealerships around me and they are charging me $300 fot it. and i'm not going through insurance(personal reason).
Frankly, no SUV stirs up any emotion in me. I would never expect one to. That's really not the purpose of an SUV. It is a utility vehicle. I could at least toss our Forester around a bit, but that still didn't give me anywhere near the feeling a competent car does.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
This past weekend an idiot T-boned my family and myself in our 2000 Tahoe, due to the fact that it is is now totaled I'm looking at many different SUV's, mostly GM, however i like the afforability and looks of the Pilot. I was wondering how does the 3.5L V6 perform, seats comfortable, etc... I've been looking at the Ex w/ leather and DVD. Please give me all your input good or bad. Thanks
I've had mine for almost 3 months now and have racked up over 11,000 miles. This is my Third SUV (Durango, 2001 Redesigned Montero, Pilot).
True... the Pilot styling is not as exciting as my others but it is much more practical and comfortable. The ride and power is far superior to my other SUV's.
This past week we drove nearly 1000 miles to Florida without stopping for more than 20 minute stretches and returned the 1000 miles with the same stops. The Pilot was AMAZING for this trip. We have the Leather seats and we never really tired after 14-15 hours of non-stop driving. Until this trip, I would not have thought these seats would travel so well.
My advice is to test drive 2 vehicles that I feel directly compete in this segment, the Trailblazer EXT and the Pilot. This is what we did. As a matter of fact, we drove the trailblazer first because I didn't even think about the Pilot, and we tried to buy the trailblazer. Couldn't see eye to eye with the dealer. This was cloth interior and sunroof with a sticker of about $34K. Anyway, left and just happened to end up at a Honda dealer. We didn't even get to test drive it, but got to sit in it for about 10 seconds while a salesperson drove it up front to deliver it to someone. That was enough. My wife fell in love with it and HAD to have it. The difference between these 2 vehicles is THAT noticeable. The Pilot was just so much tighter, more comfortable, quicker, better handling, better gas mileage, etc.,etc.,etc. And considering we got it for about $200 less than the Trailblazer and WITH LEATHER, it seems like an incredible bargain in comparison.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I am in the market for a new vehicle and my wife loves the Pilot. I see that they do not have either front head airbags or side curtain airbags. Does anyone know when they might be offered?
A very good friend of mine was in the same position that you are in about a year ago. Like qbrozen, they had it down to the Trailblazer EXT and the Pilot. He told me that the reasons they went with the Pilot were laughably clear once you compared them side by side. The ride quality, fit and finish, reliability and price made the decision easy. The Trailblazer is a nice looking vehicle, but in my opinion the EXT looks like a Weinerdog. If you are looking at another Tahoe vs the Pilot you won't get the towing capacity, however I don't think you'll notice much of a change in performance. Good luck and let us know what you choose.
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
The pilot doesn't have head airbags, but it does have side curtain airbags for the first row. There has been some debate as to whether or not the 2004 will offer the side airbags for the second and third row.
Porknbeans
Grand High Poobah The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Comments
This is a real problem for alot of people with vision glare problems and there are TONS of us who will be your oncoming traffic.
Fog lights are intended for Poor Visibility weather ONLY. It wasn't that long ago that the use of them were regulated in some local traffic laws but that has gone away for the most part unfortunately.
Don't get me wrong.. I'm a big believer in them for poor weather. Study's have also proven that using those lights in clear weather actually reduces your distance vision a bit. They light up the road just in front of the vehicle.. not in the distance and this creates a visual focus too closed to you washing out your distance vision a bit. Think about that and test back and forth with them and you'll see what I'm saying.
Happy motoring.
Drew
I bought my Pilot after six months of research, I knew then that Pilot is not perfect, its quality would be in the lower half of Honda's product lines. It was a compromise of all things considered, Pilot won out only after I lined up my priorities in order. I still believe in my decision, but I am not blind. My pilot has had some minor issues that needed visits to the dealership.
Also, stop blaming suppliers. Even it is a supplier issue, Honda is not off the hook. More than half of the Big Three quality problems are part/supplier related, but I don't see anybody (but themselves) say "It's a supplier problem." Once an automaker signs a supplier, signs off on their parts, it is the OEM's responsibility. You take the glory (and profit), you also take the fall. That's why they are called OEMs.
The larger issue is whether Karl's assertions are truthful and whether he should use his elevated soapbox to broadcast unsubstantiated conclusions.
Sure we've had some issues with our Pilot, but I would still buy it again....and I might so that I can drive one.
I gotta say, that is article is FAR from being "automotive enthusiast website" worthy. The only time he even mentions the Pilot is to talk about it breaking down. Nothing else! We don't know if it still felt comfortable after 6 hours of driving. What kind of gas mileage did it get. He went through all these great lengths to tell us about every little raindrop and snowflake he drove through, but not a WORD on how the Pilot performed through all of this. This article belongs in a travel magazine, not here on Edmunds.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Perhapse I'm in a great minority of people who get an extreme Glare from them though. My biggest issue is probably more with drivers who don't pay attention to how their lights are adjusted or who snap on aftermarket junk and have to have the Fogs on because it "Looks Cool".
FWIW... I honestly have not noticed that the standard lights are not up to standard on my Pilot. Mine is only about 2 months old. Is it possible that this area has received some improvements late in the '03 model run? I will say that the headlights in my three previous vehicles were horrible.. so I do know the experience of poor headlights.
Drew
The recall notice should have found its way to someone, but there's a large fleet of owned and borrowed cars in the garage, so maybe it wound up in a cubicle farm somewhere.
But I like your idea of requiring them to read Town Hall :-)
Steve, Host
Karls fault is he blindly trusted a car company to do the right thing all the time. No comany will, not even Honda. He did pick the Pilot over a nicer pacifica, not saying the chrysler would have fared better. His trust was broken, he is mad. Anyone who have bought a problematic big three against other people's advice will attest to that anger. Notice Karl is also mad at Nextel, even more than Honda?
On a related note: Our local paper here in Cincinnati had one of the BEST reviewers who wrote the main article in our Saturday "Wheels" section. His name was Alan Vaanderhal (not sure of the spelling of his last name). He wrote some of the most thorough reviews I've ever read and to your points... He often would site information he came across from forums such as this one here at Edmunds. He seemed to like to look for trends at owners forums like the Town Hall at Edmunds.
Then.. mysteriously one Saturday.. I got my copy of the Cincinnati Enquirer and HE WAS GONE! Replaced by various different people every week from the Corporate staff I'm guessing.. Same company as USA Today. I'm REALLY bent over it. This past week we were treated to some woman writing about the new Nissan Z in a "Dear Diary" format. It was painful to read.
I'm guessing it's a money saving issue. Losing my business won't make a difference unfortunately.
Drew
Gannett stills brings us James Healey (that should enliven the peanut gallery, lol).
Steve, Host
Long-Term Test: 2003 Honda Pilot EX, May 2003
Steve, Host
http://www.enquirer.com/columns/wheels/columns/072702_pilot.html
Always wondered if he was the person cited by Edmond's as munching on free steak at Honda's press review while blasting the shortcomings of the column-mounted shifter?
2003 Midsize Crossover SUVs Comparison
Steve, Host
I also think having a 3rd row gives it a huge advantage over the others, but I do see the problem with finding others to compete against it. And, talking about the 3rd row, I found it strange to mention the tester was a "top-of-the-line EX model ... and a fold-flat 60/40-split third-row seat." That fold-flat seat comes standard in even the base LX model. That comment makes it sound like you only get the 3rd row in a loaded-up EX. Sorry to be picky, but details like this bug the hell out of me.
I don't have a problem with 2nd place, but I do have a problem with a Mitsu being first. (shuddering as I think back on my wife's Gallant)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Cheers
Pat
We may have only got second place, but it still sounded like a good review of the Pilot.
It almost reads like they were evaluating the SUVs like sports sedans. I like good handling in any vehicle, but the primary reason most of us buy SUVs is to haul stuff, carry the family around, go in the snow, tow an occasional load, and generally enjoy a larger, more comfortable vehicle. In these uses, the Pilot is simply a vastly superior vehicle.
Or maybe I just don't understand why people buy SUVs to use them like sedans. I see more and more people buying these things, rather than sedans or wagons, simply because they like the "substantial feel" and "rugged style" of a SUV-type vehicle and have no intention of hauling, towing, snow driving, off-roading, or carrying more than a few passengers. I guess that's why the H2 is selling so well. This comparison may be just reflecting what SUV buyers are buying SUVs for these days. I just don't get it.
- Mark
Honda Pilot Mileage
Please state your mileage on your odometer too. Thanks!
Steve, Host
I drive in Chicago. No suburbs, lots of stop and go. It still seems outrageous that I would only get 12-14 mpg a gallon but the highway mpg for me is the same as everyone else. I wonder if when people say city driving they mean city suburbs and not real city driving with a light every 50 yards.
I also see people driving at speed or leaving a stop and their Brake Lights NEVER go out meaing of course, that they drive with a foot resting on the brake. They are getting horrible mileage and wearing brakes out.
Just some random thoughts here.
Drew
That is true. But what does it mean to the EPA guys? The folks that rated the Pilot at 17 mpg.
Lot's of people getting below that number. Me - I'm averaging about 19 - 20mpg in rural driving.
Even the EPA says that the MPG achieved by drivers will be within a few MPG of the figure they publish. The number is really a guide to help you decide on purchase. It isn't a goal or minimum threshold.
Thanks for the info.
i have heard folks have swapped to a full-size spare (usually by purchasing an wheel being sold by someone else who went with aftermarket wheels), and have heard nothing about it fitting underneath. So I assume it does, but have yet to get a definite "yes" answer.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Thanks,
So let's assume that spare rim is a 16". I do doubt a full 235/70 would fit. That's about 1 1/2 times the width of what is on there now. Just doing some quick math, it looks like something along the lines of a 185/90 or 180/90 would come close in height, but then you are still left with 3 questions: does such a size exist? would that fit on the spare rim? and would such a wheel fit under the Pilot? I would have no idea where to go to answer those questions. Well, ok, actually, I have an idea where to go ask it and possibly get an answer, but I can't tell you.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
anyway, yes I got one installed. Looks and works great. My only complaint would be the new headliner. Its cloth instead of the factory foam, so I'm a bit worried about sagging in the distant future. If you've ever seen a 70s vehicle with a sagging headliner, you know what I mean. otherwise, most people would not know it didn't come from the factory this way.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I just picked up my new Pilot from the dealership I work for and was told by another salesperson that our dealership will not install aftermarket sunroofs because of the possible liability and that we do not have a good company in our area to do the work.
Ask your dealer if he offers it as an option and what the warranty will be. If your dealer offers the option, it's probably a good bet that it will be from a shop they have experience with and trust in.
Drew
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
close to 2000 miles.
Much like a '95 Accord EX we once had the Pilot is totally competent, totally acceptable and very ....well.....boring.
FWIW, it *IS* my wifes ride and she loves it. So much so that she has not said "MDX" since we bought it.
I however find alot to like about but little to be passionate about. The exterior styling is pretty good, I am getting used to the interior, the radio/DVD controls are too complicated, it is quiet, air is cold, third row is well designed, 5 speed auto trans is fantastic and smooth, ride is mini van like silky smooth but kind of wallows down the road like a fat pig...
My ole' '96 Isuzu Trooper (that we traded in with 127k on it) had more soul. I had a relationship with that truck for whatever reason, Pilot is just more of an appliance. I do not wake up early Saturday morning to wash the can opener.....
Same as the Accord mentioned earlier. On paper and for Joe Sixpack it had everything my current '95 BMW 318i has (except it was an automatic) and I never felt any joy or exceitement in driving it. The BMW I love and don't even get me started on my darling Miata.
So in conclusion, Pilot is very adequate but fails to stir any emotion in an automotive enthusiast.
Gets decent mileage though for a wallowing pig
Lets hope they hold together well.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Steve, Host
Thanks
True... the Pilot styling is not as exciting as my others but it is much more practical and comfortable. The ride and power is far superior to my other SUV's.
This past week we drove nearly 1000 miles to Florida without stopping for more than 20 minute stretches and returned the 1000 miles with the same stops. The Pilot was AMAZING for this trip. We have the Leather seats and we never really tired after 14-15 hours of non-stop driving. Until this trip, I would not have thought these seats would travel so well.
Good Luck
Drew
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Thanks.
Mark
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
Grand High Poobah
The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators