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1962 Cadillac - any driving experiences out there?
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Click to enlarge the photos and hone in on the 1962 and the 63/64 (the '64 is the white convertible in the foreground). Is it just me, or does the '62 look kind of dorky compared to the newer models? Keep in mind this is "me" talking (Mr. 1962 Cadillac convertible).
By itself, I think the 1962 looks very elegant and sleek - especially in convertible form. But, in a side-by-side comparison, I'm starting to think the 1963/64 (the last good Cadillac styling years IMHO) looks more graceful and refined while the 1962 appears rather hokey and just plain out of style - though the latter comment is admittedly moot considering we're talking about a 40 year old car. Forget about the 1960 which, like me, looks tired and frumpy.
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but was wondering if anyone else got the same "vibe" from this comparison photo which I've seen (or similar one's like it) several times before.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2116232022
How? If I knew the tricks I'd be a commercial photographer but I imagine it has to do with picking less flattering angles for the previous years. Every car has them, they're just usually minimized or eliminated in ad photos. The photographers may have also played with the lighting.
Remember, these guys are good--very good--at subtle manipulation.
Keep the faith Parm. I think the '63-up Cads are cleaner but more generic. The only point in buying and living with an old car like that is the styling statement it makes. A '62 Cad isn't styled in quiet good taste but it makes a heck of a statement. That statement may be good or bad but it's never indifferent.
I wonder if the '61-62 was a response to the smaller-for-61 Lincoln. Even though they both came out the same year, I'm sure the folks at Cadillac knew what Lincoln was doing, and vice versa. Then maybe Cadillac felt they were losing some of their traditional customers, so they went back to their more formal, massive style for '63.
As for overall length, the '60's were 225" long and rode a 130" wheebase. The '61's only had a marginally shorter 129.5" wb, but overall lengths were down to 222", or 215" for the short-deck Deville Town Sedan model. For '63, they were still on a 129.5" wb, and length was still 215" for the short-deck, and 223 for the regular models. I guess it just shows what you can do with styling tricks. Even though the '61-62's really aren't much smaller, they're just styled to look sleeker and less excessive.
I think the 61-62s were more the work of Bill Mitchell, who had taken over some of the styling from Harley Earl at GM. Lots of interesting stories about the styling wars that went on between those two. Since Bill Mitchell had a big hand in the 63 Corvette, it's no wonder the 61-62 Cads were a little more sulptured and sleek looking than the usual overlong boat look.
That's a good thing if you own a '62, but a bad thing if you're looking to buy one. At least, this has been my experience thus far. I've been considering a 63/64 as a fall-back position in that it appears you can get a nicer car for the money. A #2-#3 quality 1963 would probably be about the same money as a #3-#4 1962 (assumes both are the same model - an Eldorado convertible as an example).
Between the 1963 & the 1964, I think a better price can be negotiated for the '63 as I view it as kind of an odd duck. The '62 had the great styling and the '64 had the new Turbo Hydro transmission in combination with the new for '64 smaller/lighter 429. Plus, the '64 had the smaller rear tail fins which in my opinion was a more desirable, understated look. The '63 was stuck in the middle with the older Hydromatic and a revamped 390 (that wasn't quite the 429) and still had the larger rear fins.
Anyone else feel the 1963 Cadillac is kind of in no-man's land?
A 1959 of course and the 50s cars in general stick out as quite unique from a 60s car and are priced considerably higher than a '60.
I told him that those years were about the worst that America ever produced. Primative fuel injection systems and relatively strict smog laws that made for undriveable cars. And what could be more complicated than a 70's Eldorado.
Don't you have the worst of all possible worlds. Black boxes without the reliability of more recent black boxes. And where do you get parts. Can a Cadillac dealer service the thing?
Personally I separate Cadillacs into four groups: '59-60, '61-62, '63-64 and '65-up.
The '59-60s are the most desirable because they're the most over the top. This is wretched excess at its best.
The '61-62s still have those great spaceship/jet fighter styling cues but in a trimmer package.
The '63-64s are much cleaner and more elegant but compared to the earlier ones they're boring.
The '65-up are even cleaner, more boring and getting way too big.
Or put it another way, do you know of people who use a 76 Eldorado as daily transportation?
I don't think there's really a whole heckuva a lot in an Eldorado of that era that would make it impossible to get back on its feet and running, unless the car was simply allowed to deteriorate too quickly. Even though they're FWD, they share a lot mechanically with the RWD B- and C-bodies of the time. They had a lot of wiring and electrical junk, I'm sure, but probably not too much in the way of mysterious "little black boxes", like what cars today have.
The independants don't want them either. They fear the car will tie up a stall for weeks while they wait for parts or try to figure out how to repair a forty year old electrical system.
Sadly, the old timers are retiring or dying. when they leave the business, their knowledge and skills leave with them.
Unless a repair is pretty straightforward, this can be a real problem and certainly something to think about before jumping into an old car purchase.
Far cry from a '76 Eldo, which has very scary 70s "bad tech" (clunky bend to fit technology installed in desperation by GM).
It's not hard to understand, just a royal pain in the butt to deal with.
Still, if Shifty's 76 Eldo developed a problem with that primitive fuel injection system or the dash harness decided to fry, it would be no fun.
I'm not saying these cars can be impossible to fix, it's just finding someone willing to work on it.
He feels that factory A/C isn't worth the maintenance hassles and doesn't really do a worthwhile job.
Anyone care to comment?
"Just more stuff to break"
Still, if it's 90 degrees outside, the car will be much more comfortable with A/C.
I'd dearly love to bid on this, but A) I know the bidding will top out way beyond my budget, and
This car was on Ebay several months ago by the same seller I believe. I suspect the reserve is in the stratosphere and the seller may not be particularly motivated to get rid of it.
I just hope he's more realistic than the guy in Arizona with a low-mileage '64 Cadillac convertible (it's not even an Eldorado) who's asking the preposterous sum of $59,000!! His ad is routinely in Old Cars Weekly and the Cadillac LaSalle Club monthly magazine.
I suspect the number of bidders on this '63 Eldorado will dwindle down quickly now that the price is $15K+. Given that Fall is not too far way (sad, but true) my guess is the bidding will top out around $20-$22K and won't meet the seller's reserve.
The wood veneer on the dash is the nicest I've seen (though it's not the correct type of wood for a '63). Nice car though. If only I could leap frog into a higher income bracket. Gee, if I could figure out a way for my wife and kids to exist on bread and water and live in a hut . . . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1848987112&r=0&t=0
And given some of the bids I've seen, I'm sure there is shill bidding going on. So what if Ebay catches you? They just kick you off and you get another Ebay name. It's not like the Ebay police come to track down the perpetrator and bring you your money back. You don't even know who took your money.
Think there were enough photos of that Caddy?
Mighty nice except I didn't care for the Kelsey wires either. Same with the ugly Vogues.
Parm...it'll be interesting to see what you finally end up with!
The car would be too nice for me, I'd would not enjoy driving it, as I'd constantly have to worry about the paint, interior, etc. Maybe for shows, but not if I wanted to drive it every weekend.
But if you have the money to have that many nice classic cars, maybe you pay someone to clean it every week.
From reading the ad and from communications I've had, the guy sponsoring this auction is not the owner/seller. So, he's acting as an agent/broker. Consequently, it's impossible to tell just who's cars are in the background of the photos.
I'll not bore you folks with the details, but as nice as this car looks, it suffers from several glaring in accuracies. The wood dash inserts are the wrong type/grain of wood. The side dash A/C vents should have wood surrounds. The side dash A/C vents on this car has black surrounds. The rear bumper grill should have black paint in the indentations instead of being 100% chrome as it appears in the photos. Obviously, the wheels and tires are not correct (but I think they're pretty neat). I could go on, but you get the picture.
With regard to these restoration flaws, for a weekend cruiser or for a local car show entry, one could say "so what!" and I wouldn't argue. But, when you're in excess of $20K (which I'm sure the bidding will get to shortly), then I'd expect a car that is more faithful to being dead stock and thus able to enter Cadillac shows without the judges raking it over the coals.
Furthemore, Mr. Sylvester is right. The price is approaching (if it's not already there) a value where you'd have to really think "should I be driving this car?" and that would be a shame.
On the whole, this car is very pretty and should be taken out and driven for others to see. Problem is, the seller is probably way upside down in terms of his cost versus what the car can actually sell for in the market (assuming the buyer is not a dope). Thus, as Mr. Shiftright has so eloquently pointed out in this and other discussion threads, the car is probably not really for sale - at it's market value. Instead, I'll wager the seller is merely trolling hoping to hook someone with more money than brains.
As support, I was told by someone familiar with this car that it was on Ebay several months ago (using the same photos in the ad - so it's probably the same seller) with a ridiculous reserve of around $34,000. That price deserves an audio sound clip with the stereo-typical valley girl uttering, in slow motion, the immortal phrase "Oh, my, god".
To ghulet: So, are you saying the owner of the '64 Eldorado in your area probably thinks his car is worth more than $19,000? Don't suppose you happen to know if he's ever considered selling it? :-)
Also keep in mind that one or two sales of a fairly common car like this do not determine the market. You will see one sell at $25K in "auction fever" and you will see one go too cheap at $15K, but over all the averages for very sharp cars should sit around $19K. I just saw some very nice ones described in Hemmings for this amount.
Just because a person won't "let the car go" for $19K doesn't mean it's worth more, LOL! All that means is that the person doesn't want to sell it!!
Not that the car in question is that good, but I sure see that premium in real estate. There's an immaculate six-unit apartment building in a great part of town, what's called a "pride of ownership" property, that has a serious offer well above what the recent sales would indicate. The buyer is offering a 17.5 multiplier ($17.50 for every dollar of current gross annual rent) for a building that should be selling at maybe 16 times. And he's an experienced investor. The building has no deferred maintenance and would be relatively easy to lease and manage because of its premium location, and it has strong appreciation potential.
I'm not saying the Cad on e-Bay is a good deal (the consensus is that it's not) but sometimes "good deal" is a relative term based on what the buyer is looking for.
Now if there are only 1 or 2 of these cars in the world, and 1 of them is no excuses, well, the sky might be the limit, yes.
If you get into a bidding war, it's good to keep in mind what happend in 1990-91. Some folks took a horrible beating on collector cars.