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Saturn ION

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Comments

  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    They should skip the hybrid thing too. It's all a big money looser anyway. They would be better off putting the new 2.4L Ecotec in the Vue with a nice 5 speed auto. More people could opt for the 4 instead of the 6 that way.
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Member Posts: 677
    My brothers' 2003 ION3 has been getting very good highway mileage - he claims 38 mph. I got around 32 mph with mine before it was recalled.

    Bob Lutz made a comment in a major car mag in that the Red Line was a "new direction" for Saturn.
  • len2len2 Member Posts: 2
    i have owned my saturn ion 3 for over a year and have been totally satisfied--for the money it offers a great deal. the one complaint i do have is the front seats--whereas the seats in my old sl2 were great(altho too low) the seats in the ion are too skimpy w/o enough side support(altho at right height). but all in all,i'd buy the ion again
  • bfsbfs Member Posts: 7
    Well, I took the plunge today and called a Lemon Law Lawyer about my Ion. After telling them what make and model I have their exact words were "we've been getting a lot of those lately". After being told that I feel a lot better about the whole thing and now know there is a strong possibility there is something wrong with the car like I've been saying.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Sorry to hear that. Mine has been running perfectly (knock on wood!).
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    Sorry to hear about your car.

    The old SL was not particularly well rated in terms of durability but my experience with the two I had and with the brand was more like uga91, vuefor2 and len2. Basically excellent small cars at a good price, with great service.
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Member Posts: 677
    My Ions were declared lemons as well. Sounds like Saturn had a serious glitch in production which produced a number of duds.

    Saturn is to get a new model from the Fairfax, KS plant in a year or so. Fingers x'ed that plant, which builds the Chevy Mailbu/Maxx, can build it well.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Well, the new Saturn is a version of the Malibu Maxx, so if the Malibu is fine, then the Saturn should be, also.
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    I saw in the paper today the 2005 Ion will be heavily revised and upgraded. 800 new parts was a number quoted. Anyone have any info? Sounds like we should have waited for an even better Ion!

    BTW, we have 28000 miles on our Ion now, still not one issue. Best car we have ever had. It's too bad to hear of a couple of duds.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    I'm not surprised. Enough people complaining and not enough people buying will do that every time. Our 2003 ION 2 still runs like it did the day we brought it home, though. No complaints here.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    IMHO, until they address the styling issues, inside and out, and the quality of the interior, no amount of revision will help this vehicle. The introduction of the Cobalt and its Canada-only Pontiac variant, the Pursuit, will be the death knell for the ION.

    Keep in mind the ION has to deal with established industry benchmarks like Civic/Corolla as well as new segment leaders like the Mazda3 which is light years ahead of the competition.

    If GM was smart, they would create a badged engineered version of the Cobalt for Saturn and return to the SL name, rather than trying to fix the ION. The latter's brand equity is non existent.

    The Echo sedan proves that weird does not sell. Up here in Canada we now get the Echo hatchback like the rest of the world (badged Yaris and Vitz elsewhere) which is much better looking than the sedan and is quite a hot selling item.

    ION styling would have been fine for a niche product but not for a volume vehicle. Saturn used to sell more S series vehicles than all the products they sell currently combined.
  • bfsbfs Member Posts: 7
    I'm wondering how your lemon experience went. The lawyer I spoke with told me the final step is to take it back in for service and tell them to keep the car as their own and drive it until they find and repair the problem. I don't see how I can possibly do that, I have nothing else to drive and don't want to pay huge rental bills. Did you have to do this to declare your Ion a lemon?
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    I respectfully disagree. The Ion looks great on the outside and compared to what's out there in the market, there is very little about the car that is niche or weird. GM should definitely not rebadge Cobalts as Saturns, it's bad enough they are bringing in that GM van as a Saturn.

    The car simply needs interior upgrades and some minor tweaks. It's a great car and reliable, just not quite where the Mazda 3 and Corolla are in terms of interior or handling in the case of the Mazda 3.

    Personally I am happy with the materials inside but I guess some people want more and that's what Saturn appears to be doing for 2005. Car market is changing fast and you have to go with the flow. Can't wait to see what they do.
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Member Posts: 677
    For CA Lemon law, I took all my service records (half an inch thick or so) to a specialist lawyer who said I had a case. He then filed a brief with Saturn, we waited a month, and Saturn decided to refund the money. Some car manufacturers have to be sued to get redress under lemon law...this was not necessarry in my case.

    The core of the ION is a nice car...solid chassis, good handling, decent ride. So if Saturn gets serious and REALLY upgrades the car with a smoother shifting auto, tight fitting trim that stays QUIET over bumps, and retrains their service techs (the ones I had were hopeless), I will definitely look ION over again once my Malibu wears out. Then again, Chevy's Cobalt version may prove much better...we shall see.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,540
    bigdaddycoats, could you summarize that article for us? Unless you're a subscriber, you can't access it.

    Thanks.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2024 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (offspring)
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    Replace the five-speed automatic transmission with a four-speed to counter complaints of "shift busy-ness," according to spokesman Michael Morrissey.

    Replace the small steering wheel with a full-sized one.

    Recalibrate the electric steering to improve responsiveness.

    Add interior materials to improve appearance and tactile feel at "touch points."

    Add laminated steel and insulation to cut interior noise.

    Replace seats with better bolstered ones.

    Redesign the sedan's fascia
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    bigdaddycoats - thanks for posting the changes. I look forward to seeing them up close. Hopefully this helps sales a bit.

    vuefor2 - I know you and other ION owners like the styling of the car. But my opinion is personal preference. I think most people prefer something with more conservative lines. With some subtle styling tweaks, the ION could look like a scaled down Maxima, so the basic shape is pretty good. Just some details like the C pillar (more backwards slant to the rear door window) and a proper grill would help. The back of the car looks great as does the basic profile.

    And do not get me wrong I think it is a decent car for the money. The basic car is quite good and I think an incredible value at the cheaper trim levels.

    Some people on the board have also pointed to fit and finish issue on the ION as a reason for poor sales but the Cavalier/Sunfire are a lot worse and sell by the boat load. Up here GM also has all those new Daewoo vehicles which are more modern looking despite not being in the same league as the ION/Cobalt in terms of platform or powertrain. Driving a Daewoo anything is pretty depressing after you have driven an Ecotec powered car.
  • bfsbfs Member Posts: 7
    I'm in California too. So your lawyer didn't have you give the car in for service and tell them to keep it as long as needed. See that's the part that doesn't sit well with me. I have about nine service attempts on my car. Not all for that awful shift or whatever it is, other stuff has been wrong too.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Thanks for the information! So, they will re calibrate the steering AGAIN and change interior materials and the seats AGAIN? Sounds like they need to not try to make a fix and go for a big change so they don't have to keep updating every year.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    The one change I don't read about here is that of the engine. My '99 Accord 5-speed gets the same mpg as the Ion automatic. I'd expect that the Ion to get closer to that of the Civic or Corolla. Is there any technological barrier to the Ion getting better gas mileage?

    Personally, I like the current styling. What I don't like is that there doesn't seem to be a practical reason to buy the Ion instead of the Civic. It's not like the Ion has some clever storage areas inside, or a fuel miser engine, etc. It's a car I'd like to see one-up the top imports, but instead it flounders in the mid-pack of the Hyundais, Suzukis, and others.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    Actually, the Hyundai Elantra is selling slightly better than the ION (as did the mighty S series in its final year) and is actually a nicer car overall despite the what people think of the nameplate.

    IMHO, the relatively poor fuel econ is a major issue with the ION. There is a huge difference especially compared with a Civic, Corolla or even the old S series, all of which in Canada are capable of 50 mpg (Imperial gallon) or 42 mpg (US). I have owned all of these cars (and the Elantra) and the fuel savings adds up if you drive long distances like I do. Gas in Toronto is over C$ 90 cents per litre here which is about US$2.55 per gallon, although prices have come down this past week.

    I must admit my strong pro-GM bias here having grown up with their cars. I think they are still king of pushrods and getting fuel econ out of low-tech cars. My 12 year old 8 valve S series Saturn got better gas mileage than my current Civic or Corolla which both have variable valve timing and other high tech tricks. GM gets 4 cylinder fuel econ out of its new 3.5 litre V6 pushrod in the Malibu and its old 3.8 litre in the Impala(42 mpg imperial gallon on either!).
    Truly impressive. The old 3.8 litre is still my favourite V6.

    I know there are more fuel efficient versions of the Ecotec engine family but GM decided not to offer them for the ION.

    I like what GM offered in the old S series, a lower horsepower/high fuel econ version for the cheaper cars and more power and marginally less fuel econ for more money. BTW those Daewoo products have pretty awful engines, offering neither smoothness of operation nor fuel economy. The little Aveo gets about the same fuel economy as the ION and the larger Optra (Canada only) is actually thirstier than any of GMs V6 pushrods.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    The ION is a larger, heavier car with a more powerful engine than the Civic. Those are big reasons why the Civic gets better fuel mileage. Also, Honda is primarily an engine company, so I expect more out of them. Honda power got the job done at Indy on Sunday, that's for sure. I also think it should be pointed out that the 140 hp ION is rated 24 mpg city/32 mpg hwy versus 29 mpg city/38 mpg hwy for the 115 hp Civic. So, it's not like the Civic gets twice as many miles per gallon or anything. In 15,000 miles of annual driving at $2 a gallon for regular unleaded, the Civic will use about 88 fewer gallons of fuel and save you about $175.50 over the course of the year on fuel expense. Not really enough to let fuel mileage sway my decision, IMO.

    As far as real reasons go, I would have to say that with the exception of incentives and maybe the desire to purchase from an American company, there really may not be any. When we bought our ION 2 in March 2003, it was down to the ION and the Civic LX. Our ION 2 with auto, power package, floor mats and alloy wheels was priced really close to the price of a Civic LX. But, we got 0% financing and a $1000 GM owner loyalty bonus, so we went with the ION. The ION has a larger trunk and a couple of minor things the Civic does not have, but it's basically a matter of choice. I think Saturn has a $2500 rebate on the 2 and 3 models now. That would make an ION 2 with auto, power package and floor mats $14,055 after rebate. A Civic LX with auto goes for about $15,194. The ION offers roadside assistance, the Civic does not. The ION offers ABS and traction control, you have to buy a Civic EX to get ABS. Either way, you'll get a fine car. My ION has performed perfectly since it was new.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    Yeah good point about the roadside assistance. My Honda does not have it. Both of my Saturns did but I never needed it so I always forget. For some people new to the brand it is a deal breaker (in favour of the ION).
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Member Posts: 677
    I'm surprised Saturn is giving up on the 5 speed. There's nothing wrong with having the transmission shift a lot (for optimum power match)so long as the shifts are seamless and smooth. The 2003 Ion 5-speed did neither.
    A full size steering wheel will make it harder to get in and out of the car as well.
    Ah well...we'll see next year just what actually shows up.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    Not knowing a thing about what Saturn offers, wouldn't one be just as well covered using AAA? Besides, you get all of those maps...probably a benefit that Saturn doesn't offer.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    Good points about the fuel savings not being significant between a Civic and an Ion. Personally, I'd like to know that my car is getting superior mileage (if not class-leading, then close to it). To me, it means I'm driving an automobile that's technologically modern enough to be engineered to be efficient with its energy source. Just something to admire about it--and about my choice.

    Otherwise, you can enjoy the more powerful engine and how it gets you moving when you want it to. (That's not as important to my driving style, and not required by the traffic I typically drive in.)
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    "To me, it means I'm driving an automobile that's technologically modern enough to be engineered to be efficient with its energy source. Just something to admire about it--and about my choice."

    I somehow doubt any ION owner will say to themselves "I really admire that person for making such a wise choice" every time they see someone driving a Civic. As I said before, I doubt you can go wrong with either choice. Everyone knows the Civic is a good car. I don't happen to like the fact that there are so many of them on the road. For me, I like having a car that is a little less seen.

    Also, AAA will offer a good alternative to roadside assistance. You have to get AAA Plus, though as standard service is only good for bare bones service. It will run about $76 a year. If you have internet access (which I have to assume you do since you are here) you don't need the AAA maps. Mapquest and Yahoo Maps will do the exact same job.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    Sure, the internet mapping services are good, and convenient. But changing your route in the middle of a trip without internet access makes AAA superior in my book. Besides, there's a lot more than route in trip-planning, especially when the planning happens in the middle of a trip.

    I'm sure other owners don't admire cars they see driving by as being technological marvels of efficiency. I just happen to. I love the ECHO for it's well-designed interior and its fuel efficiency. Same with the Civic (my old Civic hit 41 mpg on a road trip). For me it's efficiency and design over color and sporty appearance packages.

    Which is why finding a fuel-efficient, relatively safe and durable hatchback or small wagon is a tough hunt. I'm looking for a working wagon, not a sported-up wagon like a Matrix. Just a humble automobile that goes about its business efficiently and durably.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    "fuel-efficient, relatively safe and durable hatchback or small wagon"

    Not much to choose from here, that's for sure.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    A Jetta GL TDI wagon may fit the bill pretty well.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    I looked at the most recent sales figures for the ION (April 2004) and I fear for the ION. In April, they sold 6651 units, against 7825 units last April. For the year, Saturn has sold 26,603 units against sales of 33,608 through April of 2003. That's down almost 21%. Through April, Toyota has sold 102,000 Corollas and Honda has sold 100,000 Civics. ION outsells cars like Sentra, Lancer and Spectra; but, down 21% is pretty bad for a GM volume brand, IMO.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    The diesels have caught my attention. A guy I met has a new Ford F250 diesel and gets 23 mpg around town. The Jetta would be the perfect car for me--maybe price and reliability would be the main concerns.

    If GM could squeeze out another 3 to 5 mpg while retaining adequate power, I think the Ion would look competitive against the Civic and Corolla.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    Mitsu now offers a Lancer Wagon which looks vaguely Volvo-esque. Ford offers the excellent and fuel efficient wagons and 5-door versions of its Focus (a really good car despite its recall reputation). The Matrix and its Vibe variant are funky but practical and of course the 4-door Echo hatch is cheap and cheerful. The Subaru Impreza comes standard as a wagon but drinks gas like V8.

    The old Saturn S series had a great economical wagon and the 4-cylinder of the L series is kind of a bargain.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    "The Jetta would be the perfect car for me--maybe price and reliability would be the main concerns."

    While not cheap, the diesel Jetta should offer no reliability concerns. The problems many Jetta owners are having revolve around the Audi-Sourced 1.8T engine. Diesels are famous for only changing the oil about twice a year and that's it.
  • stevengordonstevengordon Member Posts: 130
    Thanks for the suggestions. I'm looking at the Focus wagon.

    I'm sure we won't see one any time soon, but a hatchback Ion would be a great car. The back end of the sedan already looks as if it should pop upward as a hatch rather than as a trunk.

    I can't imagine what a wagon would look like designed from the current Ion. Anybody think it would look good? It certainly would be functional.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    Actually that is a good point. An ION hatch would probably look pretty good (as you say the back already looks like it should be on a hatch). It would make sense especially since they did not replace the S series wagon with an ION variant.

    BTW, I like the Elantra GT hatch as well - very Saab-like.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    I agree. The back end looks like it could accomodate a hatch easily. Elantra GT is a nice looking car.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    This wasn't even suppossed to be out for 2 months. I printed a copy and will check it out.
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Member Posts: 677
    Whatever it was, it's not there now. but I did read the ION may be inheriting some of the Delta improvements currently slated for the Chevy Cobalt.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    to get the information to scan and paste here, but I could not. Basically, the changes are as they were stated a few days ago. New front fascia/grille on sedans, new alloy wheels, chrome beltline molding on ION3, new front and rear seats (wider and deeper with enhanced bolstering and lateral support), a larger 4 spoke steering wheel and re calibrated steering, 4 speed auto replaces 5 speed auto on sedan and CVT on coupe, 2 changed exterior colors (different green and blue colors) on the sedan, new shift lever, new interior color accents, new acoustic engine cover to keep engine noise down, and use of "Quiet Steel" on the ION's plenum and dash to lower powertrain and road noises. The center instrument pod remains. We'll see what it looks like!
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    Saturn is fixing things that should of never left the factory-the first year. I can't answer for the seats, it's hard to know how bad they are until you spend some substantial time on them. As for the small steering wheel, I can't believe someone thought that was a good idea. Yeah, let's make a steering wheel that looks like it belongs on a bumper car in an amusement park! Give me a break!!!
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    Well, I have a 2003 ION, and I (obviously) don't think it was that bad. Yeah, the seats are not the greatest--but that's not an issue for me. The car is almost 15 months old and we have not hit 12,000 miles yet. The steering wheel--in all seriousness--is the one criticism I have never understood. Who cares if it looks like it belongs in a "bumper car" or if it looks like a "pot pie?" The small wheel was functional. It served a purpose. Saturn put the instrument panel in the center of the dash and they gave it a small steering wheel for a reason. The reason is to improve the ingress/egress of the vehicle. That is exactly what it does. I can enter and exit the vehicle very easily. Obviously, people worked up over looks won out over functionality and in 2005, the ION will have the wheel used in the Red Line now. Hopefully it will all work out well.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    This past weekend, there some were great write-ups in all of our local Toronto papers about the ION Redline coupe. Nearly all the review were the same, great driving car but none really loved it because of the appearance issues.

    Unlike earlier reviews, many commented that the interior fit and finish was not half bad. Everyone disliked the seats front and back though.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    With as long as you have had the car,and as few miles as it has on it, you don't drive alot of miles. It is my understanding the seats just get worse when you spend additional time on them such as a long trip. This is one thing I don't understand with ALL THE AUTO MANUFACTURERS, they have been building cars for over 100 years, you would think they know how to build a comfortable seat for a car! As far as the steering wheel is concerned, you are right, it IS FUNCTIONAL. However, car history is littered with functional, but ugly ideas. This steering wheel is one of them. You want another functional car? The Pontiac Aztec, you can make a comfortable camping spot in it's back with an optional "Tent Package." BUT WHAT AN UGLY CAR. AND we know what happened to this!!
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    The small Saturns have always had oddly shaped seats. I put a lot of miles on my first SL, a 1992, but I was in my mid 20s and only drove about 90 minutes at a time, though I racked up 215,000 km before I traded it. In 2000, I bought a 2001 SL for my job which requires me to travel all over the province and northern US. Most of these trips are between 2-5 hours each way and those seats became an issue. The IONs seats are much better than my SL and has a higher seating position, but they are not as good as most other cars in their class.

    At the time I was in the market, nothing compared to the excellent seats in my Civic which are close to my old 1980s vintage Volvo (best seats ever). Our Corolla also has nice seats but not ideally suited to larger people (I am small in stature).

    Chuck1 brings up a good point about seat design. Even the Hyundais of old had nicely designed seats. It is therefore a surprise that Saturn has not incorporated best practises used by Asian car makers, who they were originally designed to compete with.

    Fortunately it sounds like the ION is slowly getting upgraded to meet the competition.
  • uga91uga91 Member Posts: 1,065
    That is correct--the car is not driven much. Mostly back and forth to work (4 miles each way) and light errands. Our mini van is the family hauler, so it gets most of the work. As I said, the seats are not great--but I thought they were better than the seats of the 1999 SL2 I traded in on the ION. The seating position is certainly better. The seats for 2005 are going to be completely different, so I would expect no more seats issues. We'll find out.
  • dunworthdunworth Member Posts: 338
    It also ran in the local papers this past weekend.

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/redline.htm
  • vuefor2vuefor2 Member Posts: 490
    The steering wheel on the Red Line is nicer, the current one is fine but I admit it's not a part of our Ion I love.

    Nice to see Saturn upgrade the car though. When we bought there was no Mazda 3 but I suspect we would have bought one if they were around. Hopefully the 2005 model will be much more like the Red Line. Sounds like it's quite the little hot rod.
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