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Comments
Judging from some of the comments on the newer models, transmissions are still a problem in that vehicle for many and quality is inconsistent, sometimes good sometimes not.
I think there are better options out there and that a lot will depend on the dealers in your area. A good dealer (or independent mechanic is even better) can make all the difference.
My input:
2004 Town and Country. Bought 2/23/04. 25000 miles. Absolutely flawless operation. Just oil changes and tire rotations. Nothing else
They may not catch BY DESIGN.
As pointed out before, there are TWO types of locking mechanism for seatbelts:
The first type locks when the belt unreels too fast. This type CAN be tested by jerking the belt.
The second type locks when the vehicle rapidly decelerates. The lock is activated by a small pendulum in the mechanism which swings forward under rapid deceleration locking the seat belt. This type can NOT be tested by jerking the belt.
You are assuming that just because the front seats have the first type of locking mechanism, that the seats in the 2nd and 3rd row will also. THIS MAY NOT BE THE CASE.
What are the odds that EVERY seatbelt in the 2nd and 3rd rows is defective? Have you tested the belts on vans at the dealership? Has anyone else with DCX vans tested their belts in the 2nd and 3rd row by jerking on the belt?
You must be more careful buying a used DC minivan than an Odyssey or Sienna because most recent model used DC minivans were originally used as rental or fleet vehicles.
Honda and Toyota do NOT sell many Odyssey or Sienna to rental or fleet agencies.
Maybe. The best auto purchase I've ever done was to buy a year old Taurus that came from Hertz. Dirt cheap (for a 1 year old car), no problems, very satisfied. At least the rental/fleet vehicles have had some sort of periodic maintenance done to them.
I understand they give you the service records when you buy them also, which is nice.
That made me laugh out loud.
And Honda likes to keep everything hushed up until the next model year vans arrive at dealerships.
1) Mazda is doing great, no where close to belly up, unlike Ford and GM!!
2) Do you have a Kia dealer nearby? You can't blindly accept what JD Powers/CR/MT/C&D and all the other so call "experts" say. If you did, everyone would just buy a Toyota and be done with it! The new Sedona looks great (2006?) and has plenty of features, plus with a 100k mile warranty...I'd put that on the top of my list.
3) How long you going to keep Minivan? If it's going to be 10 years, buy what you want - over the long term you'll be happier.
4) If you have 15K to put down on a new vehicles, you wouldn't be financing that much? If you bought a new Dodge for $20k with 0% financing for 60 months, your payment should be approx $90/month?
You have plenty of options!! I always say "go with your gut instinct"...and you'll be fine!!!
Second, in regard to the quality and durability of the Hyundai/Kia's, my research over the last year shows that everybody, and I mean everybody, who writes about cars or car manufacturers, says that the current generation of Hyundai/Kias bears no resemblance to the cars of the 90's and early 2000's. They all say that Hyundai/Kia has made tremendous strides in quality and durability over the past three to five years. Many note that Toyota is looking over its shoulder at a very fast approaching Hyundai/Kia.
Third, the reason all your co-workers are telling you to buy the Odyssey is because that's all they know and they haven't spent the time and done the research to know what's out there.
Fourth, I also agree with dennisctc that if you put down $15,000 on a minivan and finance the rest, almost all manufacturers offer very low interest rates for relatively short term loans (two to three years)--some of them from 0% to .9% or 1.9%. At that rate you could get a brand new minivan, with a full new car warranty, and still have very, very low payments for a fairly short time.
I will be buying a minivan in about nine months. The Hyundai/Kia vans are virtually identical, except for some cosmetic differences. Based on the quality and features and warranty available for the price, those two vans (Entourage and Sedona) pretty much complete my short list.
They are? By who?
I think you're mistaken...
While your van obviously had a problem, every car that doesn't lock upon tugging DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM. I think you'd do yourself a favor to acknowledge that, and at least think about it a little before continuing to post EVERYWHERE about the fatal flaw in the vans.
Do you really think that if there was a flaw in a million vans, there would be noone reporting it? Probably not; yours is an isolated incident.
You are very fired-up about the issue, which I can COMPLETELY understand, but I think you need to take your thoughts to the dealer, or regional rep for Chrysler, if not try to bring some media into it. If not, then you need to try to start getting over the issue, because it isn't necessarily a faulty design, yours was just faulty in one particular instance (like a lemon in a sea of other good cars).
Trust me, my family has been through two Chryslers, and they were horrible cars for us, and experienced problems that were documented by many others, so I'm surprising myself that I'm not jumping on the bandwagon in bad-mouthing Chrysler.
Here is the strongest evidence for Chrysler's case...
The government wouldn't allow a car with faulty seatbelts to be driven on the road. It would be a deadly mistake that would cause all kinds of legal issues for the NTHSA if they did. For this reason, I believe that your case was isolated, and that ALL Chrysler vans (or cars with this type of seatbelt) aren't safety hazards.
I'm Canadian been reading a lot on this site, but first time posting message. Even so there is many posts regarding minivans, some of them few years old and I would really appreciate your feedback.
My current car is now too small for our kids, and yep, my wife almost convince me that we need a minivan. I am looking for a 7 passenger minivan with next essential options for me: ABS, second row separate chairs, third row split..
A few details:
* we do about 20 000K a year
* looking to buy 2005/2006 minivan within next 1-2 months
* been looking in a rowe at Chevy Uplander/Venture, Dodge Caravan, Kia Sedona, Mazda MPV; Toyota Sienna or Honda Odyssey are cool but still big price even for 1-2 yr old (at least in Canada).
So now we are in first round- test driving, we found Uplander drive not very impressive , Dodge is normal, Kia Sedona was the best what we drove, but her fuel consumption (almost 15/100 km in city and 10/100 km hwy) when gas price today in Ottawa 95 cents made us little bit scary. The -MPV, Sienna, Odyssey are in our list for test drive.
Honestly I am not really sold on any of them (I personally like sedan - impala, sonata,...), but practically I agree with my wife the one car should be small for her daily driving, and other one should be family one which will be driven by me. I also knew different story about Caravan's quality, GM problems, etc.
I found a lot of material for US customers, especially how quickly you guys can find information about incentives, holdbacks, consumer rebates, etc.,
If anyone can point me where I can find same information - incentives, holdbacks, consumer rebates for Canadian dealerships in Ottawa area would be GREAT!
Any help/feedback would be highly appreciated,
Thanks
OH, I thought that you were shopping for a new van. 2006 DC models have very good safety ratings
I am sorry that your daughter got hurt, and I understand your frustration in this incident, but it's been explained that this pull test doesn't necessarily prove anything. Do you really think that there are millions of vans out there that have rear shoulder belts that don't catch? You don't think this was a problem with just your car?
I am not against the MPV. We actually looked seriously at them a year ago, but they didn't have several of the amenities we have gotten used to with our current vehicles. Also, the power was just adequate (Mazda seems to have that tendency with their larger vehicles, despite the "zoom-zoom" slogan).
Personally, I think Toyota is just way too proud of their cars. The Odysseys have been very good in the past. I have some issues with the current ones, though.
But amongst the 3, I would probably lean towards the Freestar because the reliability isn't terribly bad (CR gives it an average) depreciation seems steep, and you can get it easily serviced, with parts readily available. (It IS an American car afterall)
It would be a tossup between the MPV and Freestar for me. I'd rule the Sedona out because it doesn't have the fold flat third row seat, (and because the Kia Long Haul Warranty is partly non transferable) but a friend of mine has a Sedona and it was pretty smooth around town.
I find it strange how nobody has mentioned the Freestar. While lameduck, I find it to be one of the better used minivan bargains.
(Ignore posts by people who do NOT own the brand you are reading about).
I did that, and now I don't want to buy any of 'em. :confuse:
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Mechanics around town are probably "treating" very old patients. Anything relatively new is under warranty and wouldn't be going to them anyway. Both companies have greatly improved reliability. My T&C has been flawless in 2+ years and 25000 miles
Same here. I've got two girls myself (ages 4 and 6) and if I were in an accident in which it seemed as though there were a mechanical failure leading to the injury of my children I would be looking for the cause.
But I would want to know the REAL CAUSE. It has been pointed out, repeatedly, that you CAN'T TEST if the belts are working correctly or not by jerking on them. You are ASSUMING that the rear belts can be tested that way.
Do you REALLY want to find out the REAL cause of your daughter's injuries, or is it fine with you to make that kind of assumption and just go on down the road? If the 2nd and 3rd row belts in ALL '01 Dodge vans 'fail' the jerk-test, wouldn't it lead you to believe that these belts have a DIFFERENT type of locking mechanism and that there may well be another reason why your daughter was injured?
Or is it simply more convenient to look for the simple explanation, even if it may be wrong?
This is indeed the case in some vehicles, especially since 1996 when a lockability requirement was added to the federal motor vehicles standards. This required rear seats in almost all passenger vehicles to have some method to securely lock a child restraint. It is possible to find various seatbelt systems in different seating positions of the same vehcile. We see this all the time at child seat events.
Excellent suggestion. If enough similar complaints are made, an investigation will occur. This is often how recalls are initiated- if a defect was actually to blame. There are many different seatbelt systems in use today. It's not always easy to determine a working retractor from a defective one. Beyond a report to the NHTSA, consulting with a lawyer experienced in these issues would be another step if you believe a defect was involved.
Sadly, misuse and non-use of restraint systems are far, far more likely to be the cause of serious injury and death than defects in restraint systems. If a defect is involved in the case you mentioned, I hope it has already been reported and that it will quickly be identified and made public.
Apologies that I missed some previous comments on this thread. It does happen that vehicles have different retractor systems, even from one seating position to the next in the same vehicle. I assure you that all modern vehicles have retractor systems that do restrain the shoulder belt securely in a crash. It is possible that yours may have had a defect or was broken. If that is the case, you should definitely report this to the NHTSA and consult a lawyer experienced in these matters. I hope the best for your daughter and anyone that was injured in your crash.
I was hoping you would weigh in on this issue.