Minivans - Domestic or Foreign

wendyc5

Thanks for the sage advice---you've helped tremendously!

jpf

Prior years Sedonas have not been very reliable. Plus the resale value is horrible. Go with the Toyota.

ateixeira

IIRC the 100k warranty is not transferable, so you only get a 5/60 warranty.

That could be one reason used ones depreciate so fast.

ateixeira

I'm going to offer a different perspective - I would definitely recommend the 8 seater.

We got one, and when there are 5 of us you don't need the 3rd row at all. That means you can carry 5 and still have 99 cubic feet for cargo, more than any other van, even with 5 comfortably accommodated.

For the small child, the middle seat can slide forward about 8 inches, so mom can reach the infant. It's short-term, sure, but you'll love it for the first 2 years or so.

Plus, that offsets the seats, so the 12 and 8 year old will have their shoulders behind the middle seat.

We have a nanny, plus 2 kids, so we drive around with 5 in the car quite often. At other times, we put the dog in a crate and he sits in the middle, between the kids.

That 8th seat is incredibly useful. In fact we use it much more than all seats in the 3rd row combined. Easily.

yatesjo

I have to agree with ateixeira on this one. The Sienna 8th seat is very useful. It is wide and comfortable enough that a large adult can sit comfortably even between two car seats for extended trips. The front and center position is excellent for taking care of infants. While the 8 passenger model doesn't have captain's chairs with arm rests, if no one is sitting in the center seat it can fold forward to make a good armrest and table.

For me the luxury of captains chairs was no where near the value of having an eighth seat. I can have all three children ride in the van with none banished to the wayback. I have a huge space available behind the second row most of the time. Other times we can take another family of three with us in the same vehicle- a real bonus when we have friends and family come to visit.

By contrast, the plus One seat in the Odyssey is a neat idea but I found it too small and uncomfortable to use on a regular basis and when it isn't in use it is in the way.

thegraduate

For me the luxury of captains chairs was no where near the value of having an eighth seat. I can have all three children ride in the van with none banished to the wayback.

Eh, when I was "children-sized" ( :shades: ) I know I enjoyed having some space from being crammed up against some of my cousins when we'd go in my Uncle's Suburban. I could have been beside them where they bothered me and had no window to escape to, or I could have the third row and not be banished to the middle.

Unlike the Suburban though, the Odyssey and Sienna can have the 3rd row split folded, so that you don't lose the whole cargo area. Just have the seats in place that you need. In my aunt's Odyssey last year, we had one 2nd row chair, and the one-seat portion of the third row up. We then had lots of room for our cat's big kennel (big enough that her litterbox and bed fits in it). Nice to have the versatility of a minivan these days isn't it?

ateixeira

Ody's plus-one seat is neat but indeed, very small, plus the 3-across width is a lot less.

In the 8 seat model, the Sienna's outboard seats are set farther apart. The middle seat is a full 20" wide, I actually measured.

I haven't measured the Ody's middle seat but I'll take a SWAG - it appears about 7" wide. So basically if you sit in the middle you crowd the outboard seats.

I don't even think a big infant seat would fit between an 8 and 12 year old. Just use the 3rd row if that's the case. The plus-one seat would be OK for quick trips, though.

Like I said, we love having 5 real, adult-sized seats (22", 20", and 22" wide) and 99 cubic feet of storage. Can't be beat.

yatesjo

Kids change as they get older and wouldn't be surprised if my sons later fight about who gets to sit in the third row. But for now we have a two y/o and a three y/o that want and need to be in easy reach, particularly to make sure they are properly buckled in to their seats. The infant in the center seat moved forward is not only in easy reach for parents, but also out of easy reach of bored and sometimes jealous older siblings to either side.

hansienna

Get the 7 passenger Odyssey because you will have MORE comfortable seats for ALL 7 people in the van when you have only 7 people but still have seating for an 8th person if necessary.

Very few people would be satisfied sitting in the 2nd row of the 8 passenger Sienna where there are NO armrests. Putting the arm rests down is the FIRST thing everyone does when they sit in a 2nd row seat in our Sienna...even before they put on the seat/shoulder belt.

IF maximum cargo space is required when 7 people are in the vehicle, get the Sienna 7 passenger because the Sienna has THE MOST cargo space behind the 3rd row seat of any minivan.

ateixeira

You really ought to put "in my opinion" before what you say because a lot of us disagree with you.

That's all I'm going to say.

hansienna

The phrase "in my opinion" applies to almost EVERY post in CarSpace. :shades:

ateixeira

It should be a default Sig file.

kbella3

We're planning on buying a minivan within the next couple months. Not worried about resale value as we keep our vehicles a long time. Our price range is 20-22K max. We've been looking at Kia Sedonas, we like the warranty and the price. Can't really buy a NEW equally equipped van in T&C or Sienna (and not really crazy about what I've read regarding the new T&C anyway). Though we could buy a used loaded Sienna for the price of a new mid-range Sedona. But we keep going back to that 10 year warranty.

This is going to be our first car payment in a while, so want to make the right decision. Posting here to see if I could get some other opinions. All are welcome. :-)

hause7

I would go with a Sienna. We owned an 04 that was very good to us and now own an 07 and it is awesome. Drove both and see what you like. The Sedona was rated low reliability wise and the Sienna was rated number one(according to Consumer Reports).

Right now in my area you can get an LE model Sienna equipped nicely brand new for $22-23K.

thegraduate

If you are limiting your list to these two (Sedona or Sienna) I'd go with the Sienna, even if you get a low-miles used one. The Hyundai/Kia minivans aren't doing so hot in the reliability ratings. Honda's Odyssey drives the most like a sedan (firmer/sportier) if you are used to a car, you might test-out one of those, as their reliability is notably better than the Hyundai/Kia, and slightly behind the smoother Sienna.

ateixeira

I test drove a Kia and liked it as a $19k alternative, but I don't regret spending more on a Sienna. Having said that, for under $20k Kia owes no apologies, they are a good value. I just wanted the best van, not the best price.

Find the Car & Driver article where they were compared - the Sienna is quicker and got significantly better gas mileage. In the long-term, even if you don't care about resale, you will save $$$ on gas, to offset the initial expense.

A CE is about $21k but I'd spring for an LE at just over $22k.

Here, I found part of the article that I scanned in. 14 mpg for the Entourage (a clone), vs. 19 mpg for the Sienna.

At that mileage, over 100,000 miles, a lifetime of ownership, you would use 5263 gallons of gas on the Toyota, vs. 7143 gallons for the Hyundai (or its clone, the Kia). Even if gas stays at a cheap $1.50 per gallon, you would spend $2820 more on gas for the Korean van.

That more than makes up for it. Go more than 100k miles and the advantage keeps stretching.

Keep in mind this was the mileage at the hands of C&D editors, but you get the idea of the relative efficiency of these engines.

Toyota's 2GR V6 is a gem. It made Wards' 10 best list for a reason.

See chart below - quickest and most efficient. Sound good? To me it did.

stush

I have the Hyundai Entourage. Bought it June of 06. It's listed as an 07. I almost have 40,000 miles on it. I did have 1 of the common problems that came with the new model, but the dealer quickly fixed the problem. I've just put on 4 new tires, about 36,000 out of the factory set. It's driving fine. Average about 17.5 around town and got between 23 - 25 on the last road trip. I also have an 02 Santa Fe. I have 70,000 on it now. It's been bullet proof. 1 driver side power window motor ( fixed under warranty) Front wheel bearing replaced and 1 of the power steering hoses broke. Just tires, brakes and rotors. So, I guess what I'm saying is, don't be afraid of the Kia. Sure you may have some little problems, as with any brand, but if the dealer takes care of the problem quickly and with no hassle. Thats all you can ask.

kbella3

Thanks everyone. I sorta figured the Sienna might be the way to go, you all kind of just solidified that. I do like the looks of the Sienna better than the Sedona also. However, I will still test drive both of course. Also didn't realize Sienna's gas mileage was better (and sadly gas by me is already approaching $2 again). My only real requirements are the power sliding doors and DVD system. I could get that in an LE? Will start researching now....

ateixeira

Let's see, I believe the LE model EVP #2 has power sliding doors.

I would go aftermarket for the DVD player. I got a 12" Jensen (installed) at Circuit City for $900. The factory one is only 9" and costs a lot more, but one is available if you really want that.

My mileage is excellent. Full disclosure - I do take it easy, and drive in the most efficient way possible, but I get 21-24 even around town. I've broken 30 on some trips, though I kept speeds below 60mph to do that. I still usually get 27-28 mpg on trips, even at 65-70 mph.

rewjlw

I am planning on buying a new minivan. I amlookoing for some advice about the best/most economic minivan.

thegraduate

Could you be more specific about your needs, preferences? There's not really a bad one out there!

swampfox28

Truthfully we suffered when trying to choose between a Sienna and an Odyssey in late '04, but we chose the Odyssey because we felt we got more "bang for the buck". I love Toyotas, but I love Honda, too, and I just want to feel like I got a fair deal (or, as fair as possible, considering how expensive vehicles are/can be!!)

We decided on the Odyssey and the ONLY bad thing I could say is that they're not as quiet as Toyotas generally are. I wish Honda would spend whatever trivial amount it would take to make them a bit quieter; but it's in no way a "deal breaker" for us. We LOVE our '05 Ody and actually were drooling over an '08 just the other day; now that we've gotten an Odyssey, I don't think we'll ever get another kind of van. It just suits us - we LOVE it!!

-Sarah

kbella3

Just wondering Is there a particular year Sienna that has less issues, etc. I'm looking at used 2005+. Although just found a used 2004 that has everything we want. Has about 44k miles.

jpf

You'll probably want to check out the oil sludge problem that affected Toyotas of a few years ago. They may have an extended warranty on these vehicles.

hause7

It only affected the 3.0L V6 on the 1998-2003 Sienna's plus it only occured to a few owners not everyone. The 2004-2006 use the 3.3L V6 and the 2007-present use a 3.5L V6.

We had a trouble free 04 Sienna Limited AWD that we traded in with 90,000 miles for our now 07 Sienna XLE FWD because we didn't need the AWD here in California.

If you are gonna buy a Sienna an 05-newer are rated excellent in consumer reports. Try and find an 07 in your budget. It uses a Timing chain instead of a belt, has a lot more power, and gets the same if not better gas mileage then the 3.3L.

Just my .02 Cents

ateixeira

hause7 beat me to it, but I was going to suggest a 2007 for the same reason - no belt to change, more HP on the 2007 and later.

Just took ours to Florida and back (I'm in the DC area) and it was a great utility vehicle, carrying people and luggage all over the place. Our group had 17 people!

The funny thing is all the kids wanted to come with me in the van because I had the 12" movie playing all the time. :shades:

kiams

I have posted this question elsewhere, but now that I found this thread, I might as well re-post it here.

I'm on the verge of becoming a "van-Dad", albeit unwillingly, and I have been fielding different views on which van to get. My initial purchase is $10K, with no desire to do financing...I want outright owneship of the vehile...and with this 10K burning a hole in my pocket, I need to locate a van before too long.

What I'm looking for is dual power sliding doors, and possibly power lift gate. I have a toddler who will need a wheelchair, so the less we have to fumble with the doors the better.

In another forum (not edmunds), someone recommended Mazda MPV since apparently, their reliability had improved dramatically since 2000 MY redesign. I took a test drive in one this afternoon, and I liked it. A quick survey in Autotrader (within 100 miles of Boston) revealed 2 choices

1.) 2004 Mazda MPV LX with 12K miles --> asking $12,500. Has clean carfax, 1-owner and is at a mazda dealership

2.) 2004 Mazda MPV LX with 63K miles --> asking $6,900. Has clean carfax, 3-owners and is at a GMC-Pontiac-Buick dealership

What to do now??...buy high miles half price and save the moolah, or buy low miles and add 3K to the budget....aaarrgh! I am getting a headache

Drum roll now is on 2004 Sienna (high miles) v.s. 2004 MPV (high miles for $7K) v.s. 2004 MPV (low miles for $12.5K)

jchan2

Get the low miles MPV LX, try to negotiate it down to $11,000 flat.

3 owners for any car with only 70K miles is trouble; try to get as few owners as possible on a used car.

thegraduate

I'd stick with my budget and go from there.

yatesjo

I'm with jchan. Avoid the one that's been through 3 owners already.
If the MPV is enough vehicle for your needs, don't bother with the Sienna.
Go for the MPV with low miles and knock the price down a bit. If they're smart they'll give up on the ridiculous $12.5k asking price and let you have it at your $10k budget. If not, keep looking.

ateixeira

I like the MPV and considered it my favorite van for a long time before I bought my Sienna. My friends kept telling me it might not be big enough for my needs.

I'm glad they told me that because at times I've used every bit of space in our Sienna, and today the MPV seems small to me. With a wheelchair you may want to consider how much cargo room you'll have since the chair itself already takes up some space.

I think the side-by-slide seats in the 2nd row are an industry-best, though.

hause7

I don't want to sound Bias. I only say stay away from the MPV because of a close family friend's personal experience. I mean they are cool looking minivans, our friend drives an 04 LX with the sport package in that Dark Green color. BUT they are on there 3rd transmission at 72,000 miles! 2 of them replaced under warranty. I don't know if it's reliability dropped because it's basically a Ford drivetrain or what, but they are looking to get rid of theirs.

Go with a used Sienna or Odyssey. You can find them for that price, probably more Sienna's because the Odyssey's tend to be more pricey used.

good luck.

kiams

I had a chance to drive an 2005 Oddy EX-L and I have to admit,...me likey likey...

I just layed 10 separate Bank of America envelopes with ten $100 bills inside on the table at a Toyota dealership after the test drive and the used car manager threw a hissy fit...

He goes, "I got that car for more 11K, I have put $1000 work into it, here's the invoices...I'm not gonna let that car go for less than $12,900"

I just picked up my envelopes, smiled and asked him to call me when the van is there on day 59....BTW the van was at their sister Honda dealership for more than 75 days...and it's been at the Toyota dealeship for 25 days so far...

Oh and by the way, I got introduced to a friend who has a dealer license and says he can get me a 2005 Honda Odyssey EX-L with less than 60K from the auction for 10K plus $350 service fee and $350 auction fees and $750 warranty (5yrs/100K) coverage...total $11,500...does this sound feasible?

eandlcubed

for hause7. your email is marked 'private' so i can't send you mail. if you are the same hause on sienna club, i want to ask if you knew the site is down? i tried and it directed me to the same url but more like a search engine. thanks -ecandlcubed

hause7

Hey Yeah I been trying to get on since Thursday. It has been pissing me off :mad: . This blonde girl pops up and shows RELATED SEARCHES. I hope it's not down for good.
Man I hope they fix it.

jchan2

I don't know about the '05 Odyssey; it still a somewhat flimsy transmission design that fails at a higher rate than the newer ones; it could be a roll of the dice. Odysseys have had some serious transmission issues in the 1999-2004 design, and some of those bugs could have rolled over into the '05s. The transmission was strengthened in 2007 with a newer design.

Although at $11,500 it seems like a decent price. With the 5 years, 100K warranty, I'd probably give it a shot.

sebring95

I don't know about the '05 Odyssey; it still a somewhat flimsy transmission design that fails at a higher rate than the newer ones;

What data are you basing this on? Having been sociable on all the Ody forums around the net since buying our '05, I've seen one instance of an '05 tranny grenading and a couple replaced due to seal leaks....all at very low mileage. In recent months, I've seen two different posts of '07 trannys being replaced. It's certainly nothing like the Ody trannys from years past where it's more surprising that the tranny DIDN'T crash. I know they switched to the 4-shaft transmission in '07 although I have my doubts that was done for any reliability reasons...I'm wagering it was to simplify the supply chain. In speaking with my dealer, they've not replaced a single transmission yet from the '05+ models and said they service several with over 100k. They get complaints about the downshifting while braking....but that seems to be the norm on most newer transmissions these days. As a precaution, I'm doing a fluid swap (just drain/fill) on the tranny every 30k miles. Cheap insurance if nothing else.

Once we got through a few of the common problems on the '05 Odys....we've been smooth sailing. Now crossing 50k miles recently and haven't had a complaint in a good year. I wouldn't hesitate to buy an '05 as long as the updates had been applied.

kiams

Once we got through a few of the common problems on the '05 Odys....we've been smooth sailing. Now crossing 50k miles recently and haven't had a complaint in a good year. I wouldn't hesitate to buy an '05 as long as the updates had been applied

Thanks, btw, care to list them for me please? I want to be as knowledgeable and well armed as possible on this decision. :shades:

sebring95

The three "big" problems from the '05 models seem to be the brake groaning, windshield whistle, and power steering pump whining. I was aware of all three TSB's before we complained to the dealer about any of the issues. The brake groaning was very erratic, started after the first year and would do it maybe once a month. The windshield whistle started very early but it only seemed to occur at certain speeds with certain winds and usually only when raining. The power steering started to whine around 20k miles and that's when I took it in and complained about all three issues. They installed new updated pads, turned the rotors, new updated power-steering pump, and new windshield trim.

Other issues we've had include the six-disc CD changer acting goofy and the DVD system freezing up about 30 minutes into a movie. They replaced both six-disc changer and the DVD player without question. The last "repair" I've had was last winter when I was in for service (around 35k miles) I complained that the rear hatch was very slow to open when it was cold. They put new struts on the rear hatch under warranty.

So in terms of shear problems, we've had quite a few issues although none really amounted to much. The fact that the three major ones were known issues that were supposedly corrected by updated parts....I'm hoping those issues won't reoccur. I've owned quite a few first-year vehicles and I've had far worse. We really like the Odyssey though and have kept it much longer than we normally keep our travel vehicle. I might just be getting cheaper in my old age though, but I honestly haven't found anything worth upgrading to yet.

jchan2

I seem to recall reading on the Ody transmission board somewhere that a few '05 transmissions had failed, or maybe I was getting those mixed up in the massive amounts of '99-'04 models that had failed transmissions.

In this case, yeah, just buy the '05 Odyssey and call it a day.

ateixeira

I forget what year they changed it, but when the MPV went to a 5 speed auto trans they changed suppliers and went with JATCO.

Japanese Auto Transmission COmpany, I think is what is stands for. Definitely not Ford at that point.

Mazda had plenty of bad Ford transmissions, CD4E namely, but later MPVs were not among those.

hause7

Does anyone know what's wrong with it? It's been down since Thursday. I really wanted to go on there with some questions. Just wondering if anyone on here uses it or knows any of the people that run the site. Thanks

eandlcubed

I pulled up my paypal account and searched through all my transactions. i donated to the site 5 years ago. the founder name is jack bowell (email is Jack@bowellville.com) ... don't know if email is still good though. i will email him to see what had happened.

hause7

Thanks eandlcubed, I just emailed him, just hope it's not down for good. It was a very informative website for us Sienna owners.

eandlcubed

my email to him got kicked back with a message 'mailbox full,' i found him on facebook but need an id to get in. don't want to create one though. maybe you or someone can contact him thru that route. he lives near biloxy.

komondor4

It looks like he may have missed the renewal and he Chinese picked it up?


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slowforthecone

siennachat.com is the new siennaclub website. sad to see it all go down but there is a new domain replacing the old site.

lavrishevo

My 06 Sedona was in the shop for a new bumper and the insurance company gave me an 08 Grand Caravan as a rental for a week. I was sorely disappointed.

What I did not like

1: The van was fairly underpowered and the tranny shifted rather poorly but I am not sure hot badly it was abused being a rental. Still, the engine was loud and unrefined as well as underpowered as I mentioned before.

2: The interior layout was very poor. Everything was super cheap inside and the sight lines are terrible for reverse parking.

3: Seats were another fail. Quite uncomfortable and material was cheap.

4: The van was virtually new, an 08 with 12 K on it and already the fender panels were raised from the corresponding body section. If i pressed hard it would go into place for a few hours before popping back out of place. Something weird from the factory.

5: The standard features lacked big time compared to my Sedona.

6: The only good think was the MPG was decent in the city due to the undersized engine.

Overall I was not impressed at all and I could not wait to get my Sedona back. For those who are thinking about the Grand Caravan or any of its cousins I would suggest test driving the Sedona or Entourage as an alternative.

dave594

What the insurance gave you was a rental vehicle with the cheapest minimal options which doesn't really represent what most people purchase. It's sorta comparing apples to oranges.

stush

That may be true about the Caravan just being a base model, but, with a base Sedona or Entourage you still get about 75 more horses under the hood and traction & stability control, standard.