Making my Camry go 1,000,000 miles

beethoven07

interesting point... I actually do see quite a few old Camry's (80's models) on the streets of Portland though. They generally aren't spewing smoke and seem to have decent factory paint still. I can't even say the same about Honda Accords, I see a lot of older ones, but they tend to smoke more (of course that could have something to do with the HS kids that buy them up and try and modify them in their parents garages so they will drive like Porsches).

Keep in mind too, that the Camry has only been around since the 80's so there has not been enough time to compare them to the Impala, Crown Vics, etc.

You still may be right though... I think the way cars age is a very interesting topic and would be curious to hear others views on cars that they fell have aged well over the last 25 to 30 years.

beethoven07

Can anyone tell me the top few and bottom few waxes rated by waxtest.com? Their site appears to be down and I've never visited it before. I'm really curious

Guess I'll go for the night - got to watch the last Survivor (yeah, I know...)

I'll post more tomorrow.

210delray

The rest of your story on the Canadian taxicab was correct, at least as far as I remember. That Virgil Exner was quite the stylist! Actually today, those '62s are interesting looking, at least to this eye, better in some respects than the boxy styling of competing GM and Ford designs of the same era.

Beethoven, I think the Camry is an excellent car for attempting a million miles. You're clearly not going to abuse it, unlike those New York cabbies. For the latter, I can see why the Crown Vics and Caprices would be better choices -- simple body-on-frame construction, solid rear axles, and rear-wheel drive. Easier to fix if something breaks, and in general, more rugged to stand a pounding.

vwracer

I did some real quick math and am curious as to when you plan on getting started on your quest for 1,000,000 miles? To go 1 million miles you would have to drive 140 miles a day, every day, 365 day a year, for 20 years, that equales about 3 hours of driving. To go 1 million in 15 years it would be 186 miles a day, or about 4 hours a day.

How old are you today???

How long will it take you to drive 1,000,000 miles??

How many miles do you have today??

I have been reading what you want to do, and how you plan to do it, but could you please tell us how far you have driven today, or at least give us a weekly update.

armtdm

No problem. Almost any independent garage will mount and balance. Your delaer will too I will bet. Specialty shops that deal in alignment, brakes etc will do it, just extra cash to them

Well, problem with tire stores like the one you mention is that their prices are generally higher, carry only a few brands but the real problem is that tires today carry no warranty (so why bother with a dealer) , well, not worth the paper they are printed on. the wear warranty is worthless because when you go to replace it under warranty (like most battery warranties) they calculate the price PRORATED on MSRP and you can always buy the tire less expensive then the balance you need to pay under the waranty. Almost no manufacturer provides hazard warranty anymore

mrdetailer

Last time I looked Pinnacle was the best for a carnauba based. Zaino and Klasse did the best on the polymers.

I'll tell you though, my waxes last much longer than the 8 weeks they generally gave them.

thavalai

I bought a new 97 Camry V6 CE Manual in Dec. 96. Have 99,200 on the odo. Replaced front brakes and rotors at 90,000. Still have the originals on the rear. Changed timing belt at 67,000, kept water pump. New tires at 55,000. Replaced 3 bulbs (at least those were the ones my mechanic told me about). Oil changes every 5000. Have a few tiny rust spots on the hood, seems like flying debris damage. The Stick seems a bit stiff, especially in cold weather, not as smooth as it used to be.

So, what major maintenance/repair costs am I looking at over the next 5 yrs./100,000 miles?

:-)

armtdm

Same engine as yours
at 120,000 I did the belts and new water pump since they are in the same location, thrmostsst too. Also did new wires and plugs. fuel filter for me about every 30,000, air once a year.

rest is normal routine for coolant, oil tranny fluid etc. I haven't changed my tranny filter since 25,000 (drain and fill on fluid every 30,000 with synthetic) now at 140,000.
Still orginal exhaust, cv joints all original as are shocks. two boots replaced back at 50,000. Original alternator, starter, much work done on A/C at 110,000, o rings went bad. Power antennae goes though masts every 2-3 years. (plastic stip/coil breaks)
oh for the stick shift I highly recommend going with RedLine gear oil (if it uses gear oil) fantistic stuff if it uses ATF go with synthetic.
That's about it. For the 120,000 I purchased all parts from online dealer at wholesale, independent mechanic put them all on, total cost including parts & labor around $800 but all genuine Toyuota parts. My water pump required a new mount as they changed design of pump from the original so that added $40-$50. For $800 all belts, thermostat, pump and new mount, wires, plugs, new valve cover gasket, fuel filter.

Coolant overflow tank cracked, replaced myself, windshield fluid tank is cracked also but silicon gasket sealer is holding it together fine. I replace PCV myself around 30,000 (cheap) air filters (OEM air filters only) and do my own oil changes at 7,500 with synthetic. Amsoil oil and filters.

So overall, maintenance has been excellent in 2001 I spent under $200 on maintenance with 130,000 + on car. Big one was the 120,000 deal.

Mr_Shiftright

That 1995 Chevy truck story sounds unlikely. In six years, driving every single day of the week, he would be behind the wheel 8.5 hours a day, not counting stops he'd make + bathroom+eating two meals. Also, he'd have to change his oil every six days and never put the truck up for service overnight. Given that the truck would be out of commission for service or whatever probably two weeks a year, in fact he'd be driving 500 miles a day every day for six years. Maybe the story explains how this is possible? Maybe it explains why someone would do this with his life?

leomort

I'd be happy if I can get my '94 Toyota Paseo 5spd to 225K-250K miles without major repairs. Currently at 178,750 miles. I'll hit the 200K mark this Nov 02. Average 25K/year. Wish you luck in your endeavor. Don't forget to give us updates from time to time.

Leo

sgrd0q

Mr_Shiftright HOST, I agree a million miles in 6 years for a truck seems unlikely. Mainly because a truck is normally operated by one driver.

Cabs, on the other hand can put up miles quicker. One would have though that with the short trips that the cabs normally do they would take forever to reach high mileage. But in reality, particularly here in NYC cab drivers accumulate miles very quickly. I think this is because they work three shifts and unless the car is in for maintenance it is constantly on the road. There are plenty of 1 to 2 year old Crown Victoria's out there with anywhere between 200K and 300K miles on the clock.

One cab driver once told me that years ago they would retire cars at about 100K miles. Now they seem to last much longer.

beethoven07

You're definitely right about Crown Vics and the like... They are much simpler and probably more durable in some respects.

I don't think their body integrity is near as good as that of Toyota's though. Little things, door handles falling off, the glove box not lining up, squeaks and rattles, etc. seem to plague these cars from my experience. What do you think?

beethoven07

check out my post #61... I figure roughly 25 years for me to accomplish 1,000,000 miles.

I will keep everyone posted often with my mileages.

beethoven07

regarding tires... I know I have been paying a little more for the tires by purchasing them at Les Schwab. I can say though that they do free flat repairs, tire rotations, and balancing. They also have replaced partially worn and damaged tires for friends of mine several times with brand new tires and didn't charge them.

Still know dispute though... Tirerack is vastly superior for selection, price, and feedback.

beethoven07

Thanks for the wax info... I look forward to thewaxtest.com to be back up and running.

Any personal expereince with Pinnacle wax out there - I'm getting ready to replace my Meguiar's Gold Class

beethoven07

Mr_shiftright - very interesting point on the Chevy truck... I never stopped to do the math. Sounds a bid unlikely...

leomort - Thanks for your post, I will definitely keep updating this board as long as it stays active. Good luck with your Paseo.

dhughes3

I assume you've been to the "longest lasting car" postings? Interesting reading!

beethoven07

I do indeed often check out the "longest lasting car" postings. They are interesting - it goes to show that there are a lot of cars and trucks that can go quite a few miles.

I'm out for the evening... will post again tomorrow.

charlesb_la

Here's one link

http://houston.bcentral.com/houston/stories/2001/09/10/tidbits.html

and another

http://www.pennzoil-quakerstate.com/indx%5Fpqs/about/products/pr2001%2D08%2D29.htm

packman4

I'm not big on hyperbole, but MMO is the only additive that I would consider. It is an upper cyl lubricant that is added to the gas or oil as specified [4 oz per 10 ga/gas] and keeps injectors clean. A gallon on sale is $4-6 at Farm & Fleet. I've been using it on my Camry for awhile now, but it only has 130k, so inconclusive. But it does add a lubricity to the gas that definately doesn't hurt. No super-accurate MPG tests, but mileage does seem to be consistently higher [a tad], which makes it about free. The main reason diesels chug chug chug is the fuel's added lubrication over gas. Also a great penetrant. Once we bought a '64 Belvedaire with 70k and a hopelessly frozen [from sitting] slant six. They tried everything. Towed it from OK to WI, adding MMO to plug holes at every gas stop. Got home, threw a batt in, fan budged a little more at every keyturn, then broke free. Ran fine, used no oil.

mminerbi

Beethoven, among the cars you listed in your message #110 for your odessy was the VW Passat 4 cylinder. This was presumably the gasoline engine. Why didn't you consider the VW diesel?

Shiftright, how do you believe the VW diesel with automatic would compare with the Camry 4 on durability and operating expenses over the long run?

plumman

I'm using Amsoil 0-30 with cheap oil filters from Walmart. Dist went out only real failure. I change trans(auto)fluid every 30k with Amsoil.
Valves don't need adjusting. Still have original water pump installed. I will replace on next timing belt change. Good luck on your quest to a million miles.
Change plug wires every 60k and plugs every 30k.
I have a 4 cylinder with auto trans and original fuel filter. Couldn't get if off.

beethoven07

Thanks for the links on the truck. It is indeed very impressive that the engine went the distance. In response I have a 2 question and 2 comments:

Question...
1. Does anyone know if it made it to the 1,000,000 mark on the same automatic transmission - the article didn't say? Did it even have an automatic transmission?

2. Does anone know if he was loyal to one brand of gas like I am to Chevron?

Comments...
1. I think Mr_Shiftright made a good point about how much this man must have been on the road. 800 miles per day everyday means this man did nothing but drive and sleep for 6 years. 800 miles a day is more than many long haul tuck drivers drive in a given 12 hour span - and they take vacations now and then as well, etc. I hope he wasn't married. I suppose if he was to begin with and his wife didn't ride a long with him, he isn't married now...

2. It is interesting that Penzoil was the chosen oil. I admit a slight bias against this brand of oil, as I have heard enough (read: from several mechanics) that it tends to have a higher paraffin like content that, after time, sludges up an engine. If the man would have used a synthetic oil and changed it half as often, I bet he still would have made it. I'm sure Mobil 1, Amsoil, etc. would have still purchased him a new truck at the end. I'm counting on a new car for my retirement at the end of my endeavor as well.

beethoven07

Thanks for your post. I've actually done some research on Marvels Mystery Oil. I personally have never used it as I tend to stray from additives by nature. I have heard good things about it though. At this point I don't feel I will start using it, the verdict is still out for the future though.

I'm curious... Do you use it with a synthetic motor oil or a dyno?

Any other users of Marvels Mystery Oil?

beethoven07

Regarding the VW TDI (and VW's in general)...

I know that the Jetta TDI may seem a more logical contestant to reach the 1,000,000 mile mark than it's larger Passat brother. My research has indicated that, overall, the Passat is a more reliable car than the Jetta though. This may be an unfair statistic, as I'm sure the TDI Jetta is more reliable than it's gas engine counterpart holding the majority of the sales records. I chose to look at the Passat based on it's higher reliability rating than the Jetta and because it was bigger.

VW's definitely strike me - I think they are very nice looking cars with beautiful interiors (generally better looking than their competition, IMO, almost acccross the board). Had I been convinced of their relaibilty at the time I puchased the Camry, I probably would have chosen the Passat instead. From my experience (I've never owned a VW but know several folks who have them) VW's are famous for electrical gremlins throughout the ownership experience backed up by a poor warranty (2yr, 24,000k miles), and for body integrity issues. A couple of my friends late model VW's use about a quart of oil every couple thousand miles too.

A few examples...

I have a friend with a New Beetle 1.8T. He went out to his car one morning (the car was around 5k miles) and their was an inch of water on the floor. Turns out there was 2 major leaks - the sunroof, and the transmission tunnel (1.5 weeks in the shop).

I have a friend who had a '99 Jetta. In the first 20k miles she had three seperate encounters with an electrical gremlin that prevented the car from starting - dealer replaced the CPU.

The same friend as above dumped her Jetta, drove a Civic for a year and then bought an '02 Jetta Wagon. So far her wagon seems to be pretty well screwed together ( she did have to replace a power window motor though).

One thing though... despite major problems, all of my friends still love VW (strange?)

beethoven07

Thanks for your post and maintenance advice.

Just curious... why do you go the the expense of using arguably the best oil you can buy (Amsoil) and then mate it up with cheap filters. Why don't you spend another $5 and get an Amsoil or Mobil 1 filter?

Also, excuse my lack of understanding, what did you mean when you said the only problem you've had is with the "dist" (I'm guessing distributor)?

Wha type of air filter do you use? Thanks

beethoven07

I've been working on my 10k mile preventative maintenance this weekend.

One of the many things I did...
I replaced the air filter for the first time with the Amsoil Foam Filter (I'm hoping it will hold up better some of the other user's did out there). I had a hard time getting it to lie straight in the bed of the filter housing as it doesn't drop in like OEM filters. It is just compressed between both halves of the filter housing. Has anyone else had troubles like mine?

Got to go for now... will post again later today or tomorrow (I still need to post my maintenance plan that I said I'd post this weekend)

charlesb_la

"Does anyone know if it made it to the 1,000,000 mark on the same automatic transmission - the article didn't say? Did it even have an automatic transmission?

When the story first came out there was a detailed writeup from one of the local papers from that region. I remember reading it online at the time but don't remember where and can't find the detailed writeup. I believe that he had his automatic transmission replaced twice. I can't remember at what interval he was changing the trans fluid or anything about the gas he was using.

Good luck

gambiaman

I read in another board where someone said Amsoil oil did not meet ASME SJ rating required for present car engines. I would definitely read the label closely before I used something other than a major brand oil.

vetteryan

Amsoil DOES currently meet/exceed the SL rating which superceeds the SJ. I have a bottle righ in front of me.

plumman

I used Amsoil oil filters during the first 40k miles and after that cheap-o brand. Remember(Walmart) these filters are comparable to oem brand for warrenty purposes. I change filters at 5k and the oil every year or 25k.

Mr_Shiftright

Well, maybe the story is true and maybe not, but it has all the markings of being an "urban legend".

Theoretically, it is possible. A man could drive 800 miles in 13.5 hours (averaging 60 mph, which isn't easy to do). Then he would eat, go to sleep and do this again for 1,250 days. Given that it is a 6 year old truck, there are 2,190 days available to him, so he had to be driving about 60% of all days, or 4.2 days a week.

But to reach 1,000,000, he would really have to be driving 4.2 days a week for those 6 years more or less. No big breaks. I can't imagine keeping up a 13-14 hour grind like that.

plumman

I used Amsoil oil filters during the first 40k miles and after that cheap-o brand. Remember(Walmart) these filters are comparable to oem brand for warrenty purposes. I change filters at 5k and the oil every year or 25k.

vwracer

If you bought a "NEW" 1995 model car say on August 1,1994 and then drove it until Jan.1,2001 it would be considered a 6 years old car when it is actually 6 years and 5 months. On Dec. 31,2001 it would STILL be considered a 6 year old car when it is actually 7 years and 5 months old.

strange math, but true to life.

plumman

Beethoven,
You are correct. The distributor went out at 106k. No spark, the coil is inside on 95 model. Got a used one off a 94 to work. Napa has rebuilt ones for 100-200 bucks. Also am using the stock air filter. I tried the Amsoil one but you have to make sure it stayed oiled or it will rot.

andre1969

My roommate used to deliver papers, and from the few times I've gone on his route with him, I can tell you it's pretty gruelling work. This guy with the million mile Chevy...did he actually deliver the papers to each individual customer, or just truck the entire load from the pickup point to a distribution point?

Here's the routine my roommate used to go through. I had him clock his route on the odometer, for tax purposes. From the time he left home to the time he returned, it was about 53 miles. Almost half of that was just driving out to Annapolis to pick up the papers and then coming back to Crofton to do his route. Then it would take him around 2 hours to actually deliver all those papers. Letting your car idle for 2 hours or more, while hardly ever getting out of first gear, can't be good for your car! Not to mention how much weight that must be! I remember he'd usually fill up the entire back of his Tracker, and have to throw a few in the front seat too. He used my Gran Fury a few times, and he'd fill up the entire back seat and a good portion of the front. Of course, a Chevy 3/4 ton truck is going to be more durable than a Tracker (not sure about a Gran Fury police pursuit, though ;-)

Sometimes though, I used to wonder who was harder on their cars...my roommate delivering papers, or me delivering pizzas! I'd imagine I put more wear on the brakes and starter (over the years I lost 3 starters in the line of "duty"), but I wonder what all that loafing along in first gear does to an engine. I do know his tranny needed work every 20-25K miles or so!

Also, as for that 3/4 ton truck, does anybody know what engine it had? My first guess would be a Chevy 350, which used to have a bad reputation for having a weak bottom-end. Although with a 3/4 ton job, maybe it was a 454?

armtdm

Only the Amsoil XL series of oil designated to be changed every 7,500 miles is API certified. Like the oither specialty synthetic manufacturers the Amsoil regular synthetic and series 3000 are not API certified. For that matter neither is RedLine or Schaeffers (full synthetics) and probably the other non national brand names.

After 10 years of non API certified oil usage I can't complain, no engine failures with changes from 7,500-12,000 miles. Yea, potentail warrantry issues, all of life is a gamble, just read the sludge board on Toyotas.

vetteryan

Amsoil regular (25,000 oil) synthetic DOES currently meet/exceed the SL rating (it has a starburst symbol) which superceeds the SJ. I have a bottle right in front of me.

armtdm

Must have just changed it, my 10W30 containers at home do not have this donut.

Do you know if it is on all weights? I also have some 0W30 series 3000 with no donut either purchased about 2-3 months ago.

beethoven07

I'm still intrigued by this story. I've had a hard time finding a lot of information on it beyond what has been posted in this board. Excellent point vwracer, the date the truck was purchased definitely throws different numbers at the equation.

Has anyone ever seen a write up on this story in any Penzoil or Chevy literature? How about at Jiffy Lube's (I don't dare step foot in one)? I'd think that Penzoil would advertise this story at Lube Shops if they went to the trouble of buying the guy a new truck. Just curious...

beethoven07

From what I can see, armtdm is right. The 7500 mile synthetic is the only oil produced by Amsoil that is API Certified. The other oils do show the starburst on them indicating that they meet and exceed SJ ratings. Don't confuse this with being API Certified though as they are not.

I'm not to worried about it though. Amsoil was the first true synthetic oil and is very widely used.

beethoven07

Thanks again for your post.

I'm glad I only eat pizza and don't deliver it. It sounds like delivery is just murder on cars.

I wonder who the toughest is on their cars: newspaper carriers, mail carriers, pizza delivery folks, or cab drivers? I think it would be interesting to present the same type of new car to an individual of each of these vocations at the same time. Who do you think would make it to 100k miles with the least amount of maintenance costs assuming they all drove roughly the same length of time (not distance) each day?

armtdm

Checked with a large Amsoil jobber, the only API certified oil is the XL7500 series.

Must be reading that it meets/exceeds the SL standard and misinterpreting that for an API certification somewhere.

Anyway

alcan

The toughest car use is probably in police service and the most abuse in rental fleets.

vwracer

I work at Post office, No way any city mail truck ever make it to 100k. I am authorized only 10 miles a day on the route I deliver. The truck assigned to my route is 10 years old and has 26k. I have seen mail trucks with only 40k that were totally worn out junk. rual/country routes and over the road long haul trucks are a different story. Tires on right side don't last a few thousand miles because of brushing against the curb when your mailbox is by the street. You'll wear out sidewalls long before tread. Brakes are replaced at 5000 miles because you drive to the next box and stop, drive to the next box and stop, drive to the next box and stop, drive to the next box and stop, drive to the next box and stop(sorry about that).

andre1969

Last week, I had to have my Gran Fury in the shop because it was refusing to start. Turned out it was the distributor. But while I was there at the garage, another customer was talking about his old late '80s Caravan. It had about 285,000 miles on it, so we started talking, since I've owned a few high-mileage Mopars myself. Turns out it had a Mistubishi 2.6 that had been replaced around 160,000 miles. Like me, this guy had been dealing with the same mechanics for years. I think these guys have had their own business since the mid 60's.

Well, it turns out this guy actually had three Chrysler minivans, all bought as the same Pontiac-Dodge dealership a few miles up the road. The sales manager wanted to get all 3 minivans together to take a picture, for publicity I guess. Well, this guy said he'd only do it, but he was going to put a sign on the oldest one that said "Seabrook Garage made this car run!" Evidently, the dealership didn't find it as amusing as I did, because they then changed their mind ;-)

beethoven07

I've always figured the abuse on mail fleet vehicles is enormous. I'm surprised they don't install curb feelers on the right side of the trucks. I'd think they could put short ones on that would still give the carrier close distance to the mailboxes yet drastically cut down on tire scraping.

beethoven07

Thanks for the story. I'm not to surprised to hear that the Caravan went that type of distance on only two motors. I would be very curious how many transmissions he went through though. I've always heard that late 80's mopar transmissions weren't the most durable.

beethoven07

Well I took the Camry to a good local mechanic to have the ATF and differential fluid drained and refilled yesterday. I normally do all my own maintenance, but didn't feel like jacking the car up, sliding under it, and trying to pump fluid into the differential.

The shop I went to is truly very good, but of course they sent my car to the lube center side given the nature of what I had done. It never seems to fail me that the lube techs I deal with need "extra" help. My particular tech was very nice, but seemed young (maybe a year or two out of HS) and fairly inexperienced.

Here is the run down on the service he performed: He hoisted the car up to waist level on the lift, fired up the pneumatic wrench, and started to take off my wheels - stopping after a couple nuts to ask me for my wheel lock key. I asked him why he needed to take off my wheels for an ATF drain and refill to which he responded, "...oops, I read someone elses work order..." After putting the lug nuts back on without torquing them he raised the car up to the point he could get under it. He removed the drain bolt on the transmission pan, drained the fluid, replaced the bolt, and then started lowering the car. As he was lowering the car I asked him why he didn't drain the differential to which he responded, "...your car doesn't have a differential...". I explained to him that my particular year of Camry did, so he raised the vehicle again, found the bolt, drained the fluid, and replaced the bolt. After this, he searched around for a pump to get new fluid into the differential. Once he procured the pump and set it up, he preceded to blow the hose off it and squirt fluid in his eye. After a 5 minute eye bath he returned and finished filling the differential with a new pump. The rest of the procedure went pretty much as normal, though he seemed to blindly refill new ATF into the transmission without regard to it's appropriate capacity. Good thing I brought my own Amsoil in roughly the necessary quantity.

I guess the moral of my story is that no matter how good the shop is, you should still try and watch the mechanics as much as possible. Had I not watched the tech, I would have had my tires rotated back to the same position they were in the day prior before I had them rotated by the local tire shop, and my differential never would have been touched.

This isn't nearly as bad though as what occured to a friend of mine a couple years back. She took her new Corolla into the dealership for it's first 5k mile oil change and tire rotation service. Just for kicks, I marked the tires and oil filter for her to make sure they actually did the work. Sure enough, they handed her and invoice for the work showing both a tire rotation and oil change, but neither rotated the tires nor changed the oil filter. The only thing they did was drain and refil the engine oil. I was with her at the time of the service and promptly talked to several managers at the dealership. Long story short, she ended up with a free cargo net and in dash cd player as "shut up" gifts. I guess you can't even trust all dealers. To bad as there are a lot of customers out there who "trust".

beethoven07

guess I'll go for tonight... I will check in tomorrow. I'm planning a big road trip this weekend so I will rack up a couple miles!