Subaru Baja

Sylvia

If you used Edmunds.com to research a vehicle you bought from a
Denver-area dealership and would like to talk about your experience on
camera Saturday, January 31, 2004, please contact jfallon@edmunds.com
with your daytime contact information and the name of the dealership.
Responses must be in by Friday, January 30, 2004 for consideration.

dcm61

Subaru H-4 engines are VERY loud when cold. I'm hearing impaired and even I hear the engine until it warms up. The lawn mower analogy is dead on.

What has the temperature been in your area lately?

DaveM

jay_24

I'm just north of you in Minneapolis area. I've had a OB wagon for 3 years. Its very noisy this past month. (-26 this morning) Like yours it takes a good 15 minutes to quiet down, which is well after the water/coolant temp has warmed up.

Other than the noise. car runs great. 48k miles without problems. Should you be concerned about the noise? well I don't know. I have an appointment for mine next week and will ask as well.

--Jay

paisan

15 min is about how long it takes to warm up the oil, especially after sitting all night in very cold weather. Coolant temp rises significantly faster.

-mike

dcm61

Looks like Tony changed his mind. His post is gone.

DaveM

PF_Flyer

We're going to do a little trivia at the Mazda chat this week. Stop by and see if you like it. If you do, then maybe I'll think about coming up with a set of Subaru questions for Thursdays!



Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!

This coming week's chat on Feb 10 is also going to include a set of trivia questions about the 2004 Mazda models, gleaned from the pages of Edmunds.com! So study up and join us on Tuesday evening!!

/direct/view/.ef1b553

PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards

ateixeira

Hmm, Edmunds is deleting your posts, you've never brought it in but you claim it's a lemon...

I dunno, good luck, you're gonna need it.

-juice

jay_24

Tony,

Since your not too far from Minneapolis maybe call WhiteBear Subaru? They were the ones that fixed mine. They also have free loaners. Took them about 1 day to do mine.

--jay

jay_24

Juice, I can see Tony's frustration... why fix one but not another? This was the third time I asked them to listen for the noise on mine...boom fixed. (at least 2 out of 4)

Tony, I'm not sure you have a Lemon. The service guys told me its just a noise and doesnt affect performance. Still why did they fix mine? I don't know. Maybe they have some threshold? cetain amount of noise? not sure....Stick with Subaru. They seem to ussually come through for customers.

--jay

ateixeira

Big difference - you took it in and gave them a chance (more than one actually) to fix it.

I imagine if Tony settles down and lets them hear it up close and in person then maybe they can help him also.

-juice

dcm61

Tony did take it to the dealer, although just once. "I have only had it to the dealer once so far, they stated that the noise that I hear is normal for an engine of this size."

And I can understand his frustration. "I attempted to make another appointment with a different dealership. While explaining noise, I was cut off, and was told that Subaru just issued a memo on this noise and that due to a re-design of the engine, the noise I was hearing was normal and that they could take a look, but that there would be nothing that they could do for me. ... This conversation indicated to me that if a memo was just issued, I must not be the only one complaining."

And he has tried to duplicate the problem in other Bajas. "Prior to my first / original post I did not have the time to test drive another Baja. Since that time however I have had the opportunity to test drive 4 new models. I did not go back to the dealer that I purchased the Baja from. I drove to visit my brother in Madison WI. My brother and I drove two different Bajas and there was no noise. I also drove to the Minnapolis / St. Paul area and drove two more Bajas, no noise. All four Bajas sounded just like mine when I first purchased it. No clacking noise coming from the engine."

At this point, I think he needs Patti to get involved.

DaveM

ateixeira

He also said:

I did not make the appointment

So they've only had one look at it. Get SoA and/or Patti involved, but a little persistence is required.

-juice

dcm61

He needs to schedule another appointment and demonstrate the issue and also demonstrate that other Bajas on the lot don't make the same noise.

DaveM

ateixeira

I'll guess it's piston slap, not lifters. Check the problems threads on other boards, folks here have had that fixed successfully, even very recently.

-juice

mcbubba1

The only company making a truck cap for the Baja is A.R.E. Inc. You can find them at www.4are.com. I drive the one pictured on the site everyday. After 3 months and 6k miles I have to say I like the Baja for all the reasons that make Subaru a great vehicle. It rides great and handles better than any 4WD made and gets a steady 25+ mph.

Baja vs SportTrac:
I drove a Ford SportTrac 70k miles in one year before getting this Baja. Neither will satisfy the person with 'BIG truck syndrome', but for the suburbanite homeowner and dog lovers both qualify.

The Baja is a car that wants to be a truck... soft ride, low payload, great comfort and fuel economy.

The SportTrac is truck that wants to be a car....
Stiff ride, higher payload, spacious for 5 and if 20 mpg is good then it is good.

I like them both, but for driving lots of miles in the High Desert of Nevada and the mountains, the Baja is the best because of the AWD.

ateixeira

Just to open up the rumor mill, we're hearing that the Baja will continue on the new Legacy platform, but it'll skip a year and return in 2006.

Supposedly there still won't be a midgate, but it should get the same improvements the Legacy got (longer wheelbase, wider track, more aluminum for less curb weight), and we should see less cladding also.

Plus, there will be a factory bed lid option, standard on the turbo.

Should be interesting. I wonder if that's enough to revitalize sales.

-juice

once_for_all

yes! keep the rumors flying. I will be wanting to use my Subaru Bucks by 2007, and it will be timely if Subaru puts the Baja on a bigger platform. The cab is the weak spot in the current package (too small and too low front and back)but the concept is just right.

The Honda SUT will bear a close look when it comes out too. I see the Baja and the SUT dominating the small car/pickup crossover. The Nissans, Toyotas, SportTracs, etc, won't have the chassis, AWD, and mileage to compete.

John

bsvoller

a mistake. A huge mistake. If they go to the new platform, they have to address this. The bed in today's model offers less room (2 feet less !) than there is behind the first row in my Forester, much less the Outback. Going to the new platform won't help that enough. The breakthrough innovation on the original concept car was and remains the mid-gate.

-brianV

once_for_all

Honda SUT flier yesterday. There were no details in it--aluminum V6, nav, "sophisticated" 4 WD, room for 5, were as specific as it got. That part sounds ok, but the appearance of this "concept model" was a bit overdone IMO. There were lots of sharp angles, 4 see through panels in the roof, wild coloration in the interior/dash, etc. Also, Honda seems to be continuing the "retro" gauge style with the AMC Pacer look found in the Element. No tach, no temp, etc. Also, I see the nav as a "gimmic", I personally don't want it in a vehicle as a mandatory item.

John

ateixeira

I'll be interested to see how Honda prices this, more or less than the Pilot? I'll guess slightly more.

If so I think it'll be a low-volume model.

-juice

once_for_all

I think it will compete with Element and Pilot. My hope is that it will inspire Subaru to rework the Baja.

BTW, the Baja was the only Subaru that made the "green" list on greenercars.com. It is an efficient vehicle in comparison to many.

John

ateixeira

That just shows the slack they give to trucks, though. The Baja is the least fuel efficient Subaru in the entire lineup, basically.

It's absurd to give trucks such a break, no wonder Subaru is calling the new Outback a truck.

The Outback is sold in a PZEV version in Cali yet it fails to make the list? Ridiculous.

-juice

tooth2

Haven't visited this site for a while. I have the same clacking engine as Tony's, but may not as worse as Tony's for now. I got my Baja in Oct. I notice the Clacking sound in Dec. One morning when I started the car and backed out of my garage. I heard it, but it was gone when I drove forward. Since Jan, there has been the clacking engine sound even when I drive forward, But only last no more than 2 minutes. So, now every day in the morning I have to let the car run for a minute to warm up to avoid the clacking. I am in California, maybe the temperature is not as cold as MN, but now after reading Tony's Post, I am worrying. Will my Baja getting worse? So, Please, if anyone has a solution, let me know.

By the way, Tony, if you go to 'Baja problem and Solution' board, you'll see my Post for my Baja gas tank sloshing gas problem. Patti told me to call 800 number and also opened a case number. I have been to the dealer's many many times (they all know me now) and had district engineer checked it. They could not do anything about it, but suggested me turn on the radio or CD loud to cover the sloshing gas/waving sound. See, Tony, maybe you should also turn on the radio loud to cover the Lawn Mower. Isn't that rediculous?!

ellenst2

I also haven't been here for awhile. I've had my Baja 5sp since Feb 03 and still love it. It only has about 11k miles but I haven't had any problems with it. We've definitely had some cold weather in Mass. this year but haven't heard any of the clacking others are describing.
I really hope Subaru continues to make the Baja. I really love the flexibility of the back area and it really gets alot of use especially in the summer. I have no issue with the payload because if I need to get something really big, I use my husbands truck. Overall, I still think its a great car.

Kirstie_H

A journalist is hoping to interview consumers who recently bought pre-owned crossover vehicles (such as the Acura MDX, Audi quattro, Ford Escape, Hyundai Santa Fe, Subaru Baja, Toyota RAV4, Volvo XC70, etc). Why did you go for a cross-over? Which one? How does it suit your tastes, lifestyle and budget?
Please respond to newswiz@earthlink.net and/or jfallon@edmunds.com by Friday, March 5 with your name, daytime contact information and some information about your vehicle.
Thanks!
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

jchagtdi

Last October, I test drove a brand new Forester XT 5 speed. I agree with the Forum member who said "don't drive one unless you plan on buying it....everything else jut seems slow now"

Anyway, I prefer the looks, utility, and price of the Baja Turbo over the Forester XT, and I plan on buying one. My only issue with the XT was the short gearing of the 5 speed, and my perceived ill-mated combination of the engine and tranny. The only time I could smoothly shift the XT, was when it was not in boost. When I would wind it up to redline, the shifts were very herky-jerky. The short throw shifter and the copious torque made the XT very difficult to shift smoothly and drive aggressively simultaneously. Has anyone driven both the Forester XT and Baja Turbo 5 speed? I have always owned stick shift cars, but my idea of a smooth shift, and the XT's idea are two polar expectations. I love the diabolical thrust of the 2.5T, but I'm thinking the automatic may be the better choice for me.

The salesguy drove the car off the lot and for the first few miles, and he too could not shift the car smoothly while the turbo was on boil. I'd love to hear from any 2.5T 5 speed owners. Do the gear changes get smoother as either the clutch is broken in or you get more familiar with the right RPM/clutch action? Thanks!

ateixeira

That was me. )

I think the Baja has taller gearing, so the issue will be less pronounced.

-juice

once_for_all

uses the robust XT 5 speed (same gear ratios) but the axle ratio is the 3.9 of the Outback vs the 4.4 of the XT.

In my mind, this is a good thing, since the low first gives a good start for towing, but the tall 5th gear gives reduced RPM and mpg improvements. Note, the BT gets 1 mpg better than the XT, despite its 500 lb weight handicap and much less efficent body size and shape.

John

yooper

I was taken by surprise when I saw that Consumer Reports rating the Baja as a "Used car to Avoid" on p. 81 of the April magazine. Just last summer it was "Recommended" which encouraged me to purchase a 2003 Baja.

I went to the "Reliablity Histories" for the Baja found on p. 92 and found that it scored in the middle for Body Integrity. Everything else had a full red bubble or half full red bubble indicating it had few trouble spots. At the bottom it received a black X indicating "Worse than average reliability". After some looking for a detailed description of Body Integrity I found this, "Seals, weather striping, air and water leaks, wind noise, rattles and squeaks".

I have had my Baja for 3 months and 3700 miles with only one small complaint which the dealer fixed no questions asked. I have been very pleased with the car/truck/whatever it is. I have no evidence of any problems that the above description describes, even with -20 F temperatures and roads that are very rough due to frozen slush.

My guess is that Consumer Reports had an extremely small sample size for their data collection which skewed results.

 Any one have problems of this nature with their Baja or have further insight into Consumer Reports flip flop on the rating for the Baja?

ateixeira

I agree, most likely a very small sample. People here have not been complaining much about wind noise and NVH problems, in fact I don't think anyone has.

-juice

miller

Looking for some help on a purchase. First a little background:

I live in MN a little ways north of Minneapolis. I currently drive a '96 Chevy 1/2 ton V8. I am single and mid-20s (no kids or family). I am considering an '04 Baja Turbo 5-speed for the much (!!) increased mileage, comfortable ride, reliability, and versatility. I am looking to current Suby/Baja owners for their experiences and advice.

Trailering: I have a 14 ft aluminum fishing boat (about 1200 lbs fully loaded), usually pull it short distances, occasionally up to 2-3 hours. Will the Baja Turbo 5-spd handle this? This boat or a small utility trailer will be the max of my towing.

I love my current truck for its hauling capacity, but the most I ever really haul is a small ice fishing shelter, a canoe, a portable tree stand and bow, or a dozen duck decoys. All of my duck hunting is from a canoe, which I presume will fit on top of the Subaru (again, 99% short distances).

I would like to change to a Suby (will be my first) as my driving mileage is greatly increasing. Along with the fishing and hunting, it will be a daily driver and for mtn biking/backpacking/camping/skiing trips. With high miles almost anywhere I drive, the 13-14 mpg of my pickup isn't cutting it anymore.

I can count on one hand the number of times I have really needed the 4X4 in two years. I don't think switching to AWD/lower ride will get in the way. Even with the 4X4, I still usually choose to hike it rather than risk anything that would probably out-do the AWD Subaru. If it can take 3-4" of muddy road/two-track, I'm set.

I considered a Forester/Outback, but for the muddy/dirty stuff would really prefer even the small pickup bed.

I would love to hear from people esp in cold climes and their experiences/thoughts on this use of the Baja Turbo. Also, any drawbacks/negatives/alternatives. I'm new to Subaru!!

once_for_all

subies in general are a great vehicle. I purchased an '03 Forester 5 speed, and had been looking closely at the Baja Turbo. The Forester followed an F-150. I have been very pleased with the non-turbo Forester, especially the great gas mileage (27 or 28 usually).

The Baja did not suit me because I am 6'3", and my head was in the roof both front and back. The Forester is quite spacious, head and leg room in the drivers seat are adequate. I think for towing, the Baja would handle your boat very well.

John

anthonypaul1

First and Foremost. A Big Thank You! to Patti. The engine noise that I was hearing was piston slap. You were truly the only person that offered any kind of assistance in correcting my Baja's engine noise, and wanted to say a sincere Thank You! This noise has been corrected. I will and am planning on posting a notice of what was replaced along with an over all review of the Baja as a vehicle and my experiences with Customer Service from Subaru and it's representatives. Just have not have the time as of late.

And now to a comment for Yooper.
Yooper, I can attest to the Seal Problems. All four window seals and the sun / moon roof on my 2003 Baja have air leaks. The noise is not very noticeable when driving in town under 35 mph, but on the highway at 55 - 70 mph the leaky seals around the windows is very noticeable in normal weather conditions. If the day is a breezy or windy day, watch out, they actually squeal, and I swear that I can see the glass moving in and out. I was rolling down the windows and then rolling them back up to have a better seal, but this does not even work now.

I have not contacted the dealer on this as of yet. I have not had the time, just got the Baja back after having the pistons replaced, and am not sure if I am ready to do battle with their service department again. As long as they don't leak with water, I'll have to ignore the noise for now, until I have more time.

Comment for Tooth2.
I too hear the sloshing of the gas on the in side the Baja. It's nice to know that I have gas, but isn't that what the gas gauge is for? It is un-nerving hearing the slosh of the gas as I turn corners, stop etc. The noise kind of creeps me out.

ateixeira

I've towed about 1500 lbs with my normally aspirated Forester. I'm sure the Baja can handle 1200 lbs given the turbo power, longer wheelbase, extra curb weight, and bigger brakes. I have no question about that.

Subaru does recommend you get trailer brakes for a load over 1000 lbs, but so does everyone else, including Chevy trucks I believe.

I think you're on the right track. Demand is slow to deal hard, you should be able to get a deal.

My worst mileage ever was 17.3mpg during a towing trip, but I was towing the entire time. I normally average 25mpg. My (educated) guess is the turbo will average 20-22 mpg and get about 17mpg towing that kind of load.

-juice

jay_24

The Baja might be a little tricky with the canoe, unless you had a special rack built. I'm guessing you put the canoe on the Baja? or do you have a trailer?
I enjoy my base OB Wagon for lots of hunting and fishing. The AWD is great for wet dirt roads and grass fields. Navigates well on the lakes with and without snow.
Both the Forester and OB Wagons have a big heavy floor mat for wet and muddy items in the back. Hauls my ice shack (38"x 54") without problem. Baja might be to short unless you have the gate extention?
I average 23mpg in winter and 27-28 in the summer.
For towing it should be OK. Chevy trucks will pull 2000lbs without brakes. That is what our Tahoe is rated for. We use the Tahoe for the camper and 3 kids. (15 to 18mpg)
Fun factor...Baja turbo, Forest XT or 2005 Outbacks... lots of choices.
Lower cost: plain Baja, Forester or base OB.
All good choices.
I bought mine at Rudy Luther Subaru/Isuzu/Accura in White Bear Lake MN.

--jay

note: Yes I said drives on the lake. For the rest of you, it is a common practive in MN and WI during the winter months. Lake Millacs even plows and puts up road signs.

paisan

Must be an older one, I believe most of the new Chevy trucks are restricted to 1000 or 1500lbs.

-mike

rsholland

Full-size Chevy trucks (pickups and SUVs) are rated at 2000 lb for unbraked towing. Mid-size Chevy TrailBlazer is rated at 1500 lbs., and the old style small Blazer is rated at 1000 lbs unbraked towing. I have the brochures to prove it.

BTW, Chevy is one of the few vehicle makers to list unbraked towing in their brochures.

Bob

paisan

I though YOU had posted they were 1000 or 1500 bob. My Isuzu is also rated at like 1500 or 2000 un-braked and NYS only requires them on 3000 or over trailers.

-mike

rsholland

Not me.

Bob

miller

Any problems/history with towing on the 5-spd manual? I usually hear to go with an auto for towing, but have heard only good things/higher rating for towing with the 5-spd. I'm sure there is enough power, but can the clutch/trans take it?

ateixeira

My clutch is fine. Original with 61k miles and definitely *not* light use, including towing and off road trips.

The turbo's hardware is beefier and should be fine.

-juice

ellenst2

I've had my Baja now for 14 months and haven't experienced any problems with "Seals, weather striping, air and water leaks, wind noise, rattles and squeaks" or anything else.
Hopefully, more people will answer their survey next year giving the Baja a more deserving rating.

jchagtdi

I almost bought a new Baja Sport today. It was the Mystic Blue pearl mono paint scheme. The Subaru websit makes it look purple, but it is actually a very handsome, deep blue. The dark pearl paint with the deep tinted side and rear glass gave the car a very rich look.

It was a non turbo 2.5 automatic, and my only complaint with the vehicle itself was the lousy stero.

The only reason I didn't buy it was because of a nasty case of being upside down in my current loan.

The dealer asked for $9000 over the MSRP of $23,595 to cover my negative equity. For $9000 I decided to keep my 2003 Accord LX and enjoy it (and maybe start making double payments on it :-{

Oh yeah, there was no price break on the Legacy 35th, either. I was approved for the 1.9 financing, but we were too far apart in price, I guess. I may consider trying to do this transaction online, but it's tough when a trade is involved.

ateixeira

Wait until the 2005 Legacys are on the lot, then you have more negotiating power.

But really, you're better off waiting until you're not upside down.

-juice

jchagtdi

I'll be upside down for a while, I'm sure. I drive about 35K miles per year, and the Honda is NOT a terrible car. I just think the Subies are better :-D. My first car in high school was an '84 GL 4- door (gold). That Subaru has left quite an impression on me,even after 10 years after getting rid of it. The harder I treated it, the better it ran. I know quite a few Subaru "lifers" that will not buy any other make of car. Are they any official numbers on Subaru owner loyalty? I'd think the loyalty numbers are probably higher than those of Toyota or Honda.

Anyway, Saturday night I was at the Volvo/Virgin All Access Drive event in Foxboro, MA, and I got to drive a manual and automatic version of both the T5 and 2.4i Volvo S40. The non turbo 5 cyl is actually very pleasant with the manual, and for $24,200, will have my serious consideration along with the new Legacy/Outback/Baja. What's funny is that there is always quite a bit of talk about Subaru in the Volvo forums. These two car companys seem to design and build cars that appeal to similar sensibilities, yet, are very different.

ateixeira

Forester is best in class for owner loyalty, last time I saw RL Polk's numbers. That says a lot for a tiny niche manufacturer with 1% market share.

CR surveys owners and asks them if they'd buy the same car again, once again Forester came out on top in its class.

So yeah, we tend to like 'em.

I'm actually registered for the Volvo event in DC, that's funny. I like to sample as many cars as possible, to see what's out there. I've sat in an S40 and found it sorta small, about WRX sized, though. The V50 looks bigger.

Then again the Baja is kinda tight inside.

-juice

samadam

Has the 04 Baja had the same issues as the 03? Such as the seals/leaks, engine noise, and gas sloshing sound?

twrx

Guess that answers that question. All of you Forester owners will need to buy a new one or Consumer Reports might make the "Aztek" the numer one loyalty vehicle!

atlgaxt

Juice - I know this is a little off topic (and old), but knowing the loyalty of Subaru owners, why does the Forester score so low on J.D. Powers surveys? Forester is ranked below the CRV, Sante Fe, and I think even the Escape. It does not make sense.

ateixeira

Saw an update, coincidentally, and yes, Forester won the owner loyalty award again for 2003. They had won it in 2000 and 2001 as well.

Forester was tied for 3rd in the JD Power Initial Quality study, CR-V was 1st, then RAV4, then Forester and Santa Fe (tied). That's not bad.

Besides, though, that's only looking at 90 days when everthing is under warranty and fixed for free. I say "who cares?". IQ is just a forecast, really.

JDP's own Durability Study is much more significant. It looks at 5 year old models that are out of warranty.

CR also looks at longer term numbers. Subaru tends to score better on longer term studies.

Unless you lease a new car every 2 years...

Back to Baja, AN says Subaru might discontinue it, but only after the 2006 model year. Wonder if it'll continue on the current chassis until then?

-juice