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Subaru Baja

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Comments

  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    the Baja is not yet widely known in mainstream pickup circles. It's a specialty niche waiting to be discovered, somewhere out at the edges of truckdom. The Subaru Crew has no doubt been the most active in finding out about the Baja before it's on sale. I am looking forward to seeing it at the NYC auto show in March.

    John
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    try to get some pics of the Baja at the Chicago show tomorrow. I'm hoping they don't have it roped off like the WRX's last year.

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There has been a lot of discussion here and elsewhere about the Baja's "excessive" cladding. Here's my perspective:

    • Cladding originated as a "protective" feature that has now also become a "styling" feature. It's the styling that people are reacting to, not the protective qualities.

    Front wheel well cladding:
    • Wheel well cladding, from a "styling standpoint," gives further visual emphasis to the wheels and tires—be that good or bad.

    • the "larger" the wheel well cladding—the "smaller" the wheels and tires look.

    • Conversely, the "smaller" the wheel well cladding, the "larger" the wheels and tires look.

    • IMO, the wheelwell cladding on the Baja is too large (too visually prominent) for the current wheels and tires. The wheel well cladding dominates the wheels and tires, and makes them look rather wimpy. I think, in order to use the current wheel well cladding, the wheels should be 17" or 18" wearing tires of around 245/60. Then the "wheel well cladding/ wheel and tire ratio" will be in much better visual balance. I'm not saying that the car would "function" better, just that it would "look" better.

    Rear wheel well and rear cladding:
    • Unlike others here, I like Subaru's idea of wrapping the rear cladding around the back of the vehicle. That's the good news. The bad news is they didn't do a very good job of it.

    • my comments about the front cladding/tire ratio holds true here too.

    • Other than that, my other major complaint is that the tail lights do not integrate well into this cladding design that Subaru chose. The shape of the tail lights look haphazard at best. It really looks like one person designed the car, and another person designed the tail lights—and that they never spoke to one another during the design process. The cladding and tail lights really look mismatched.

    Bob
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    Anybody know if the Baja and '03 Forester be hitting the dealerships at about the same time?
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Your flying the wrong flag for the Lone Star State. It's like a whole other country! (The blue part goes all the way to the bottom edge.)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Forester in late May, the Baja in the fall.

    Bob
  • squiredogssquiredogs Member Posts: 87
    It looks better than the pictures. But the cladding is a shame. I don't want a silver truck. I wish they would offer monotone on all colors. I can talk myself into liking it, but I know I'd be sorry later, since I don't really like two-tone. I really wish GM would make the Borrego off of this platform, using 2 doors and the real midgate. Why does GM take 10 years to get going?
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    If you get a chance, go to Subaru.com and click on the Baja site to play the Subaru Baja Quest game. Looks like it will have some decent prizes and I'd love it if an Edmunds regular won!

    Patti
  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    It is going to have to be an Edmund's regular or someone one with DSL or cable modem. I tried it. After 5 mins of waiting to start game I left and came back and tried it again with the same results. Most of us don't have the time or patience for that slow of a site.
  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    Okay, I tried it again and it worked right off.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I think it might be getting a lot of hits. I tried earlier and it took 4 minutes. I just went in again (through plain ole AOL) and got in right away.

    Good Luck and let us know how you do!

    Patti
  • squiredogssquiredogs Member Posts: 87
    I've read between $26,000 and over $30,000. Man I hope not! Is the Baja from the shows going to be exactly like the production model? I'm still holding out hope for monotone cladding...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Look at the back of the Forester - the cladding is done in a much cleaner fashion. In fact it has a crease above the fender that goes all the way back, but the cladding doesn't reach up that far, thankfully. And the rear tail light is nicely integrated, mirroring the kink in the bottom of the D-pillar.

    In silver you don't notice where the cladding ends, and it looks cleaner, more like the Forester. I actually like silver, so that's what I would pick. But I'd want an H6/manual combo.

    $26k, OK. $30k, no way. There is a huge psychological barrier at $30k. You hit near luxury terriroty, with a 4 banger? No way.

    -juice
  • subypowersubypower Member Posts: 50
    $30,000 and we will have nothing but ugly yellow pickups sitting on our lots for months. I have heard and read that the Baja will be priced in the same range as the All Weather Package Outback. This is the right range for this CAR. There are a lot of very nice real pickups out there for $25,000.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    For somebody to buy a Baja, they must "really" want a Baja. For about the same price (whatever that will be) you can get a legit pickup, capable of doing much more work. Still, I think the Baja will find its own niche.

    Bob
  • squiredogssquiredogs Member Posts: 87
    I would really rather have the Borrego. It doesn't have to be Chevy though. I'd take the same concept as a Subaru. I like the rally-car look with the two doors. Maybe there will be another baja-type vehicle down the road that's a two-door. At 25,000, the Baja is on my short list for this coming year.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's the only car-based crew cab, so it has a niche all to itself. Question is, is that what people want? Maybe. Car-like SUVs are selling well, like the Highlander and CR-V.

    But people buy pickups for hauling, and will it meet their heavier duty needs? The small SUVs just offer roomy accomodations, and do little towing/hauling.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the Baja will do especially well with "empty-nesters" who love gardening. It's perfect for hauling plants, bushes, or a few bags of mulch. I can think of three neighbors of mine, for whom the Baja would be absolutely perfect.

    Bob
  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    People who drive in bad weather regularly and want AWD without a huge mileage penalty - and with CAR handling & ride. And who want to be able to put bulky, light garden stuff in an open bed, avoiding purchase of a utility trailer. My criteria would be: Will my mid-sized snow blower fit in the bed with the gate closed? Can I lash a few 10 foot 2x4s or an 8 foot step ladder on the roof rack, like the Forester? The Baja looks like a unique (so far) compromise vehicle that does a lot fairly well, perfect for suburban use.

    Think we'll see a wide cross section of people buying the Baja, but in not huge numbers. Ya never know. I'm looking forward to seeing it at the NYC Auto Show. If we were to move to the country, I'll probably buy a full-size Toyota or Chevy if we needed a pickup.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it will haul snow blowers, lawn mowers, any homeowner-oriented type of equipment. If you put the switchback down, and with the tail gate down, you'll be able to handle some lumber too. I think it will be perfect for people who like to putter around the house and yard.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that could really benefit by having Subaru's "self-leveling" rear suspension as standard equipment. This is a feature offered overseas on many Subies. It's standard on all UK-spec Foresters, but as of yet, not available here in North America on any Subaru. I have not read anywhere as to whether it will be available on the Baja, but I suspect not.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Since there is an "LL Bean Edition" of the Outback, maybe there should be a "Home Depot Edition" of the Baja? ;)

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    drop me a line I don't have your cell, and the one you have is my old one.

    -mike
    mike@iace.com
  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    Brookstone ?
    Hammacher Schlemmer?
    Lowe's
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Menards Edition Baja
    Handy-Andy Baja

    -Brian
  • 99gs99gs Member Posts: 109
    The loud color combos, clading, and roof lights make me think Subaru wants to get some X ers, but I agree with comments above that its the gardeners and putter arounders that seem to be the best market. It looks like something that's supposed to be more rugged than it is. That's why I think people start thinking about what regular pickup truck they could get for $25K. I think most buyers are going to buy it as dressed down as possible. They will like the 4 wheel drive, the ride and handling, and the utility, but not the loud looks. Maybe there are are some Subie buyers out there that want loud.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Baja would work for my needs, but not my wife's. I've been doing tons of gardening, landscaping, and spring cleaning and it could really have come in handy. The Forester does the job but gets filthy inside.

    For what I do, I don't need a water proof cargo area, but my wife would. Thing is, she's next in line for a trade-in. Maybe if there was an optional removable cap?

    A Home Depot tie-in would be very smart. Or maybe a more niche-oriented gardening company, maybe Toro or Scotts, something along those lines.

    The Burpee Baja! LOL

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it was shown at the Philly Home & Garden Show a month or so ago... Subaru knows what they're doing.

    It still needs a 3.0 engine option...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    And the new Forester (manual) will have beefier towing capacity, which doesn't really make sense. Pickups are used for towing all the time. They should beef up the Baja's towing, too.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    new manual tow rating makes me wonder if they'll do the same for Outbacks and the Baja too?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I thought about that, but it's a different platform. Who knows. I don't get the thinking behind their numbers, not one bit.

    -juice
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    I agree, the 3.0 H6 needs to be an option. I would add toning down the height of the cladding along the rear corner area where it currently freakishly kicks up, an apparent designers unchecked whim. :-) I would also have the leather as an option and have cloth std.

    Stephen
  • squiredogssquiredogs Member Posts: 87
    I haven't been in an Outback. Are Subie interiors nice? Cheap? While we're talking changes, any chance that the rear headrest area could be removed if a cap were put on, to really open it up if needed? I couldn't get a good enough look at the Philly show.
  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    Yeah, I fantasized about a matching, removable rear cap - along with a full sized "switchback" a la Avalanche. The Ultimate Convertible Outback. Probablably way too expensive & heavy. Agree about toning down cladding, standard cloth seats and the H6 option.

    Maybe next generation if this one succeeds.

    - John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    this (generation) Baja will be short-lived. The next-generation Legacy and Outback is due I believe, for MY 05, which is not too far off. My guess is this Baja will also switch to that platform, if not then, then the following year. That would give this-generation Baja a 3-4 year lifespan, which is very short these days as far as model lifespan is concerned. Most, if not all Subarus are now on a 5-year platform lifespan.

    Let's hope that by then, Subaru will have had enough time to address all the current model shortcomings (looks, function & power).

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    May be a limite run "get em in the showroom" type vehicle. My guess is that cap makers will start making caps for em. I know I can get ECB nudge bars for em :)

    -mike
  • squiredogssquiredogs Member Posts: 87
    Or the Outback sport would be sweet too. I wonder if that would be hard for them to engineer?
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Now THAT would look more BRAT-like than the Legacy-based Baja.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that a Forester-based (4-door) Baja (with a stretched wheelbase) made more sense than a Outback-based Baja. Still do...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dan: Subie interiors are about on par with Honda and Toyota. Not fancy as a Passat, but better than the econoboxes.

    If you want a preview of a Baja Shorty, look at the Chevy Borrego. 250hp 2.0l turbo based on the WRX. By the way, I really liked it when I saw it up close. Now THAT is an active lifestyle vehicle.

    Intersting note about the short life cycle for this model, Bob. It has to sell reasonably well to continue to exist, though.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The current Baja isn't too much of a gamble on Subaru's part; they got maximum impact, for minimal investment. By the time the next-generation Legacy debuts, Subaru will know as to whether the Baja has any staying power, and as to whether they should invest in a second-generation model. If they do (and I hope they do!), I hope they address all the shortcomings most everyone has commented on.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Minimal investment - I agree. They didn't change much of anything besides the body. Same wheelbase, same engine, same tranny, etc.

    I hope they build the next gen even if this one doesn't sell that well. I really think an H6 with a true switchback and maybe a longer wheelbase would sell strongly, even if this one doesn't. I'll throw in beefier towing and payload while I'm at it.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Eventually if it cuts into GM sales it will be neutered! *

    -mike

    *This negative comment brought to you by the disgruntled Isuzu owners of the world! ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It would only potentially overlap with GM's compact pickup, which is doing poorly right now. Isuzu (ironically) will design the replacement, and it might even get diesel power from Isuzu.

    That leaves a rather huge gap for the next Baja. I think they could make lots of improvements without it overlapping with the GM/Isuzu crew cab. Subaru could go sport/luxury while I'm sure GM's will be a major workhorse.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The new Gmuzu is going to be larger than the current S10, just wondering if they will sell a smaller one that it might overlap with.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    really competing with any current GM pickups. People looking at truck-based pickups likely won't be interested in the Baja.

    Then again, how many foresaw all the car-based SUVs cutting so much into the truck-based SUV market?

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, GM's will compete with the Ranger and the Dakota. To some extent, the Baja will have to compete with the Explorer Sport Trac (because it's marketed as car-like) and the Tacoma and Frontier (because they are imports).

    But I'm sure Isuzu will make is heavy duty enough that it won't overlap much with the Baja.

    -juice
  • squiredogssquiredogs Member Posts: 87
    I can't keep my 10 year old truck much longer. I'm giving up on the Chevy Borrego or Jeep Compass coming out before freakin' 2005, so I'm looking at the Baja, or maybe that Nissan Monaro. The Nissan is out in November, how about the Baja? It might come down to whatever comes first.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    and that's all it is, is September or October.

    Bob
  • twrxtwrx Member Posts: 647
    Local dealer says intro moved up from Oct. to Sept.
    TWRX
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