Subaru Baja

rsholland

I bet it has to do with the payload rating of the vehicle.

Since it's based on the Outback—meaning a car, with a relatively low payload rating—Subaru is concerned that people will "load" the bed with more weight than they would with a wagon. Therefore, in order to safely load the vehicle, they cut out the weight of a 5th passenger, to say within the GVW.

To me that makes the most sense in terms as to "why." If they added 5-passenger capability, they would have to beef up the rest of the vehicle in order to give it a higher GVW, and that may not have possible, given the time constraints of getting it to market quickly, and/or it may have cost too much to do so.

Bob

ateixeira

Guess so, but usually it's either hauling people or cargo, not both. At least that's how I use my Forester.

-juice

rsholland

People will load the bed of a pickup with much more weight than they would put in the back of an SUV. I guess they figure, if they're going to offer a 4-door pickup, you run the risk of loading "both" people and cargo at the same time.

This is the trade-off you get by basing a pickup off a lightly modified station wagon.

Bob

paisan

It's a niche "activity" vehicle 3 people in the back who are biking or what not won't be comfy, so why bother. My XT6 is the same way only 2 belts in the rear, SVX too.

-mike

squiredogs

Is that with the tailgate down w/the extender, or is that with the tailgate down, extender, AND the pass-through opened? Like 7.5 feet to the back of the front seats or or from the extender to the back of the back seats? Looking to the Baja as an easy way to transport my longboards without using a roof rack, hence my wish for a WRX with a Vibe/Matrix liftglass!

Does the 4 cy engine do OK from a stoplight, or highway merges? I currently have a 10 yr old pathfinder V6 which is heavier and I consider that OK.

ateixeira

You can fit two "paisan-sized" adults in the back of the XT6? ;-)

I didn't realize it didn't have 3 seatbelts. SVX too, eh? Interesting.

-juice

ateixeira

Dan: 7.5" with the extender and the pass-through. It's probably wide enough for a board to slide through, but try it first.

The 4 banger is torquey, especially in my light Forester. The Baja ought to be a little heavier, so my guess is "adequate" with the auto and "more than adequate" with the 5 speed.

Your V6 probably has 152hp/180lb-ft. That's less hp but more torque than the Baja, so it ought to be close. I bet the Nissan would still tow better, but the Baja is quicker off the line (unladen).

-juice

bluesubie

Just curious. Why would you oppose to using roof racks for a longboard? Ease of loading?

I use Rac Rolls on my OBS and I love them.
Then again I ride a 6'6", so what do I know? :-D

-Dennis

ateixeira

Man, I haven't been on a board since...1986? Used to have one when I lived in Brazil, then rented a long board a couple of times just to get a taste of the waves here in the US (cold, and they crash right on the sand, ouch!).

Guess I would have been in the demographic if I had been old enough to drive!

-juice

squiredogs

Hey Dennis -

I ride a 10' longboard. Really heavy to carry too far. My other board is 9'. I actually live 4 blocks from the beach, so I do carry them when it's warm, and I'm surfing after normal guard hours. But when it's really cold (Nov-April) I like to park right by the beach, so I don't have to walk home all wet. Plus the other two spots I surf are like 1 mile and 4 miles away. So I typically pop open the liftglass in the nissan, and slide the board in and up onto the center console with the rear seats down. I end up driving no faster than 20-35 (It's 25 MPH all around town). When I lived further away from the beach, I used the roof rack. I guess I'm just lazy, especially for a few minute ride! The Baja looks perfect - I could (I think) open the pass through, and either bungee the board down on the open tailgate, sticking out a couple of feet, or use the passthrough and the extender, bungeeing on the extender, and sticking out a little less. The other bonus would be taking off the wetsuit and tossing it in the pickup bed, rather than stinking up the interior.

The Baja (except for the 4 person seating) is right up my alley. I really don't need a real pickup's payload, just the long space for the boards, which aren't that heavy at all - unless you're old and tired from surfing!

After driving my A/C-less, no power window Pathfinder for 10 years/160,000 miles - I'm ready to pamper myself a bit too - Will there be an option for an in dash 6-CD like some Subaru's have? That's another must-have for me.

Dan

barresa62

I'm assuming the in-dash 6-disc CD changer will be std since the rest of the equipment mirrors the OB Ltd like I had in 2000. :-)

Stephen

paisan

Well I've shoved 3 paisanos in the back of the XT6 but it's really a 2-seater.

-mike

rsholland

I know Subaru is pushing the Baja at the surfer market out there, but I wonder what you do if you have a surfboard stuck through that switchback, and it rains? I guess it was meant only for sunny days...

Speaking of surfing, my daughter, a student at UNCW, was out surfing the last couple of days (in a wet suit). She's just learning to surf, and has borrowed a long board. Now she wants her own surf board for her birthday. Any recommendations? Size? costs? She's short, about 5'2".

Bob

bluesubie

Yep, Dan is definitely in the Baja demographic according to their ads. Actually, I would probably be considering it if the WRX wasn't available, and it had more of the concept ST-X's features (especially 230 h.p. and more clearance). My wife would love to get one in maybe a year or two.

juice - yeah the water in the East is pretty cold. It's rough for me after learning to surf in Hawaii while in the Navy. You can find excellent waves here though. Cape Hatteras has some of the most consistent waves on the east coast. Jersey gets good waves in the fall/winter and the jetty's help them peel a little. Rhode Island gets excellent waves as well. Believe it or not, people all the way up in Nova Scotia surf. In the winter!

Bob - she must've been surfing in Wrightsville Beach or up in the OBX. It all depends on what kind of board she wants (short, long, hybrid, etc.) A longboard will definitely be the easiest to learn on. Hybrids (a.k.a. funboards) are also good because they combine features of long and shortboards. A new board could cost anywhere from $350-$550. A good surf shop usually loves to give new people advice. Sometimes they have classes and there are also surf camps/schools. Maybe check www.surfermag.com to start.

Oh, back to the Baja. Bob brings up a good point about rain. I guess you should plan on getting a tonneau cover. Or if you're just have a board and wetsuit in the back, rain doesn't matter. :-)
I'll shut up now.

-Dennis

ateixeira

Your paisanos would make good stunt men. :-)

Bob: I'd have to account for inflation! LOL

-juice

PS I would get a used board to learn on. Maybe even a good boogie board and some flippers for her feet so she can quickly catch a wave

bluesubie

Yeah, definitely go for a used one to learn on. They even make spongey stand-up boards now. Even though she may think it's not cool. :-)

Dennis

rsholland

Yep, Wrightsville Beach (aka Hurricane Central). It's 15 minutes from her dorm. Her boy friend, also a student at UNCW, is an excellent surfer. In fact, his older brother is a professional surfer, and travels all over the world to surf. He's sponsored by some surfer-related company.

So, I'm sure she is getting some good advice. It's her dad (me) who needs the advice.

Bob

bat1161

Dennis,

I was surprised when my wife and I saw a couple of guys surfing up in Newport, RI 3 weeks ago. It sure looked strange. The Baja looks like it would fit right in to that type of environment.

Mark

ateixeira

Buy her a used board, quick, before they talk her into one in the $400-600 price range.

Reminds me of that killer wave I caught once, I looked up and couldn't see the top it was so big. I crashed on the beach later and as I regained consciousness, asked, "anyone seen my board?" ;-)

-juice

rsholland

I seem to remember reading that Subaru will offer a soft tonneau cover for the Baja's bed. They also should offer a lockable hard tonneau cover too.

Bob

squiredogs

That would be cheaper and easier to deal with than a full cap.

Baja is way more practical for me, but I really am digging that WRX blue color. I may have to drive one at the end of the summer, but I'd probably be sorry if I did, from what I've read. It'll make me jones for that Borrego again.

It would be easier if they made the Baja in that cool blue. Might even make that nasty silver cladding look good!

You guys are right, I must be their desired demographic. I hate when marketing works so well on me... makes it hard to be cool when I negotiate!

Dan

paisan

I think the cover was something we wanted but didn't see. I'm sure that companies that make tops for PUs will have stuff for the Baja as well.

-mike

bluesubie

If you are thinking about the Baja, do NOT drive the WRX. You will forget about the Baja very quickly. Even if you have a 14 ft. Koa board shaped by Duke Kahanamoku, you will figure out a way to get it to the beach on a WRX Wagon. :-)

-Dennis

ateixeira

Dan: try fitzmall.com for a no-haggle price. Or at least start there to find out what your target price ought to be.

WRX wagon has a low-mounted, easy-access roof rack. That's what I would own now if the wife though it was roomy enough inside for 2 kids and our nanny.

-juice

squiredogs

squiredogs

I really do believe that test driving the WRX could hook me bad. Some mountain bikers have concerns with the rack spacing, but I don't think that would matter for me. Fun vs. practical. I need the WRX based mini Baja now!Maybe I sould lease one or the other, since I bet one will come along (Subie or Chevy) within a year or two. I know I can't wait beyond September or so to do something.

ateixeira

The Baja arrives that month, we think. So it'll have to be a quick decision.

-juice

squiredogs

I hope there's no dealer markup or anything shady. I stopped by the local dealer last week. He wanted me to leave a $50 deposit just to have dibs, with the right of refusal when it comes. I didn't do it because I didn't want to seem like a dude that would pay above MSRP. And seeing that WRX sitting in the showroom put the bug in ny brain too. They say I can get the $50 back if I don't buy. Is that a normal sales thing?

At least until the end of the summer, there's this very cool/friendly board (much easier-going than some of the others, especially helping out with questions) to pass the time.

Dan

ateixeira

I would not leave a deposit. It doesn't really guarantee anything for you. I bet if he only had one and someone offered $1000 over MSRP, he'd sell it to the other guy.

On the other hand, it guarantees (to them) that you are interested.

I don't think it's a model that will fly off the shelves, so I'd play it cool. Within a month they'll be selling near invoice. I'd buy then.

-juice

bluesubie

When the WRX came out, some dealerships sold it for $400-800 over invoice with no hassles of a deposit. Others in the same area, sold it at MSRP or even higher. It pays to do your homework.

juice -
I thought the "street" date was moved up from November to July or August.

edit: The owner of my dealership thinks interest will die off as well. You guys keep saying that, but I don't know if I buy it. He said if they drop the H6 in there, it would probably spur more interest.

-Dennis

ateixeira

I read Forester in May, Legacy in August, Baja in September. Truth is I'm sure those are really just estimate and I'm sure there could be delays.

An H6 Baja had better come soon. Reaction from the car mags was only luke warm.

-juice

nygreg

a look at the sales pace of the Avalanche would give an indication of the Baja's success, although I would think the Baja would be more appealing to the "surf" crowd. I think it will create a niche market (a niche within a niche?) for Subaru - especially if they reduce the cladding.

Greg

ateixeira

Avalanche is selling well. Escalade EXT is going OK, but Lincoln Blackwood sold so poorly that they killed it already (I have not even seen one on the road yet, and it's already cancelled).

The Blackwood had 2WD, just 4 seats, and the "trunk" offered little real utility compared to the fully working midgates on the GMs.

Baja has AWD, 4 seats, and in-between utility. So 1.5 out of 3 key items are covered. That makes price and value big factors.

-juice

paisan

In NYS they are always refundable 100%. Dealers like to have some kind of deposit before they go out to search for a car for you so they know that you are genuinely interested in purchasing the vehicle. I'll take your deposit $ on any subaru you think will come out and refund it 100% if you don't want one.

-mike

ateixeira

I guess if you're not buying from their lot, fine. I'd just agree on a price first.

-juice

rsholland

about surfboards and Subies, but I'm going to move the discussion over to the "Cafe" forum...

Bob

squiredogs

The local dealer called me about 5 times, asking me to put the $50 down to "reserve" the Baja. I told him that I would like some definite pricing before I plunked down. He asked another guy while I was on the line. They say "between $27,000 and $29,000" is all they have been told, ballpark. That seems steep for a 4 cylinder, even on a vehichle as cool as the Baja. Then again, they seemed to know less than I have found out online, so hopefully they're way off. So for now, no $50 "hold".

Dan

ateixeira

$27k MSRP would be OK, because the street price would be around $24k, with freight (using fitzmall.com on current cars with those price levels).

I remember a Crew Cab comparo where most of them were $28k, and one exceeded $30k MSRP. So $29k would be high since it's a 4 cylinder, and all of those were V6 4x4s.

Also, at $29k the press will be all over it saying how it's too much for a 4 cylinder.

-juice

storyteller

"Preview" review of Baja: http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/preview/articles/53161/article.html

nygreg

Considering the Baja is an H4 OB with the rear made into a bed, I can't see the price being much higher than you can get an OB for. Maybe 25K?

Greg

PF_Flyer

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ateixeira

Street price will be around $25k at first, is my guess, and maybe even a little less later once the newness wears off.

-juice

nygreg

can make a ton off of the accessories if they play it right. Rear fog lights, bars, racks, etc.

Greg

paisan

http://www.ecb-usa.com already has front bars for the Baja!

-mike

ateixeira

I like those understated nudge bars.

-juice

subypower

The Baja will be the same price as the all weather package Outback. Low to mid 20K range.

ateixeira

That would be a deal. I'm geussing $26k retail, $23-24k street price.

-juice

squiredogs

How much does Subaru add on for an automatic? Or did you figure that into the $26K... How soon can one get "street price" with a dealer. Is there a good way to get it right away, or is it a 6 month wait kinda thing? I'm hoping for 23-25,000 with auto myself, since its a 4 cyl.

Dan

ateixeira

About $800 more for auto.

I predict prices will be MSRP for the first week (up to a month), then drop steadily to near invoice after about 6 months.

-juice

bsvoller

Maybe I'm still smarting from the chop job they did on the show car ("half a baja is just ba", best quote I've ever seen on these boards, juice, lol), but I doubt see them holding above invoice for 6 months. 6 weeks maybe...

Underpowered for it's weight, switchback that's not, class I towing, no low gearing, you know the drill. They neutered this thing.

They took all the cool stuff off that would've attracted the younger crowd, but left it a 4 seater that turns off the "wiser" crowd. This isn't a niche product, it's a product without a niche, IMHO.