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CR-V vs Escape

scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
edited January 2015 in General
I had to add this topic. Edmunds states the CRV bests the Escape V6 in 0-60 times. I happen to have a friend who works for a Honda dealer. I took an Escape V6 and a new Honda CRV and we did our own 0-60 tests. The Escape bested the CRV everytime! I am beginning to question Edmunds testing. Please explain how you did your 0-60 tests.
We did ours by first marking off 1 mile on a flat, straight abandoned road. We started each vehicle from a stopped position. We did this at least 6x and everytime the Escape would prevail??


  • swampdriverswampdriver Member Posts: 2
    It is clear they tested the V6 with automatic.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    You are correct. They listed the 4-cylinder 5M under the "Vehicle Tested" in bold blue while the V-6 engine was stated as an "option." I will delete my post.

    However, where does Edmunds get the 9.3 seconds 0-60 time for the Escape in the CR-V article?
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Edmunds data is wrong. Another point is the numbers just don't add up. The Escape weighs just 139lbs more than a CRV! This 139lbs isn't going to matter because of the Escapes 40HP and 35-40 ft/lbs of torque advantage. Another thing, Edmunds lists the Torque at 196, other sites list it as 200ft/lbs? Why?
    This makes no sense.. The review is wrong about the CRV being quicker 0-60.
    By the way, the CRV my friend (the Honda manager) and I tested was a 5spd.
    I am not in any way slamming the CRV by the way. I am however questioning Edmunds and its testing...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Here's another thread about those numbers. Tidester alerted the editorial guys to review the review.

    bess "Ford Escape" Jan 10, 2002 2:10pm

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  • swampdriverswampdriver Member Posts: 2
    You can not assume that the manual will be faster than the auto.
    The CR-V auto actually has equal or better gas mileage ratings compared to the manual, implying that it is close in efficiency to the manual.

    It is interesting that continuously variable transmissions like that in the VUE will probably be faster than manuals. With a few more years of development, the CVT may make manual transmissions obsolete.

    So what would be really interesting is to see the accelleration test for the automatic CR-V. I would be good to see 0-30 numbers for all 3 vehicles as well.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Well? Any answers yet?
  • artdechoartdecho Member Posts: 337
    Also.......seems like you guys(scape2 & friend) did a 1/4 mile test as opposed to a 0-60 test.....a vehicle that might be quicker 0-60 could still lose out over the 1/4 mile.......also depends on your shifting proficiency, as the auto-Escape driver just has to mash the throttle & not worry about clutch engagment, up-shifts etc. I would expect an Auto/CR-V vs. and Auto/Escape to be virtually neck & neck with neither vehicle blowing the doors off the other except in the area of fuel economy, where the CR-V has a definite advantage.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    No, everyone went to the LA auto show (lol, hosts weren't invited....).

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  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    a V6 Escape and automatic CRV will be neck and neck? The weight advantage of the CRV is a measly 140lbs? 200 HP/200ft/lbs of torque vs 160HP and 162ft/lbs of torque, the numbers don't add up right. The Escape is has the clear advantage. We need a retest here Edmunds..
    Granted 0-60 does not make a vehicle. I am not saying the Escape is the "better" vehicle. I want to get this out on the floor before I am accused of being bias. CRV doesn't suit my needs. I needed towing power. Power to tow and haul 4 people and a gear. Other wise the CRV is a nice vehicle... I just question the testing methods..
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    If you are looking for towing and hauling 4 people, then the perfet SUV for you is the Jeep Liberty. Not only is it roomier but it has the best tow rating at 5000 pounds. It is also a much safer and better built vehicle. Plus it doesn't have recalls to fix steering columns falling out at highway speed.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    It just flips over more easily.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    You state that the because the automatic tranny in the CRV 'almost' gets the same MPG as the manual, that it is as efficient and would keep up in the 0-60 race..

    On the highway when running at constant speeds, the torque coverter is 'locked' in the automatic and is almost as good as the manual.. Also, there could be a difference in the OD ratio on the auto vs manual, which could boost the highway mpg's of the automatic..

    But, during acceleration this torque converter lockout is usually not enguaged and there is a decent amount of power thats wasted in the slipping of the tranny.
    If you watch the RPM guage carefully when on the highway, you can see where the torque converter locks because there is a slight drop in RPMs that not associated with a gear shift..

    With equal everything else, the manual tranny should always beat the automatic tranny. The CRV has a good engine, and it just barely beats the Escape in the Edmunds test.. Putting the automatic in the CRV will put it well behind the Escape in acceleration..

    If you prefer manual trannies (like I do), then this is an advantage for the CRV as Ford doesn't offer the V6 Escape with a manual tranny.

    Also, what happens if you put a load or tow with each vehicle? You'd probably like the extra torque of the V6.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I just wanna know where they pull that 9.3 second figure from. Especially since all the other motor mags and sites tested the V-6 Escape's 0-60 as being consistently in the lower 8 seconds range.
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    You are right, though a shortened slalom at a higher speed they do. Not in everyday or off road driving. At least it's attractive, non-generic, roomy, capable of towing, equipped with both full time and part time 4wd and doesn't have 11 safety recall like the ford "escape-with-your-life."
  • canadatwocanadatwo Member Posts: 198
    The Liberty has only been tested in the offset crash tests.

    It failed the first time around (faulty airbag design)

    When that was fixed, the Liberty scored "Marginal" which is exaclty the same what the Escape got.

    We have yet to see the frontal & side impact tests for the Liberty and any of the tests for the CRV.

    Also, as mentioned, the Liberty rolled over or tended to roll over in two seperate slalom tests.

    I think it is a bit premature to say that the Liberty is "safer" than the Escape and the CRV.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    First, I did test drive this vehicle. Its MPG was terrible, Size, all dimensions are so close to each other, Escape wins some, Liberty wins some. My wife and I could not get over the round headlight front styling.. the power window switches and the cramped back seats. It was very hard to get in and out of the back seats. More standard equipment also on the Escape Premium vs a Liberty Limited for your $$.. V6 was rough in the Liberty also.. What about the Liberty transmission problems I am reading about around the net. Liberty has its advantages offroad. Since only 10% of my driving is offroad (I don't take the Rubicon to work) I wanted a nice ride.
    Escape recalls are old news...
    BAck to Escape vs CRV..
    I sure hope readers pick-up that the CRV was a manual and the Escape an automatic. I also question where Edmunds get the 9.3 second 0-60 times? Times on other reviews from Motor Trend to Car and Driver to whomever rate the Escape in the mid 8's or so.... The V6 was a smart move by Ford in this segment to gain market share.
    Youch! Ford to close plants and layoff thousands though!??
  • chevycamchevycam Member Posts: 54
    FYI: I test drove the Liberty and Escape. The escape is much roomier inside. It was faster.It didn't feel like it would turn over around a corner (the liberty did). The back seat of the liberty was cramped. My money is on the escape or the gmc envoy. I just can't decide if the envoy is worth an extra $9000.00.

    Also, I don't know what the people at edmunds have been smoking but the Escape v6 is 8.2 - 8.5sec 0-60 in four other tests I have seen. Maybe Honda is paying them to push the CRV.

    Before you say I am biased: I have never owned a ford. I have owned 3 Hondas and currently own a '99 Accord EX V6 Coupe.

    I wish Honda would get with the program and put some power under the hood of the CRV! It would be a screamer if they put the 3.0 V6 from the Accord in the CRV!!
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    But what about the Trailblazer? My sister has one. Besides the shoddy build quality, it's a very good car.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    You must mean Blazer. Trailblazer is winning awards all over the place for build quality..
    Anyway, The Trailblazer and Escape are two totally differnt animals. It really depends on your use. Need heavy hauler/towing the inline six on the Trailblazer is wonderful and ahead of anything in this class for HP/Torque curves. Chevy did its homework and it shows.
    Escape is for light towing/light hauling.
    I sure am enjoying mine. I have a black/grey interior XLT V6. Came with side step bars and splash guards all around. I have added a rock guard and tinted the front two windows to match the others. I have been stopped in parking lots and playgrounds by people commenting and asking questions.. The V6 is one heck of a kick!
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229

    Honda's sales are going up and I say, good for them. But, they still have a long way to go.


    YTD (as of 08/2002) sales for American Honda: 822,111 (Honda Division: 707,921)

    YTD (as of 08/2002) sales for Ford Motor Company:

    2,489,417 (Ford division: 2,055,795)

    The CR-V did outsell the Escape by 1,326 units. I don't yet know how many Tributes were sold in August.

  • chevycamchevycam Member Posts: 54
    You hit the nail on the head with the differences between the Trailblazer and the Escape. I am trying to decide how often I will actually use the extra towing capacity and the few extra gadgets the Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada have. As far as people room, they both are really close. Both have the about the same get up and go. The Escape feels more secure around corners at higher speeds.

    I am glad to hear you are enjoying your Escape. It seems the 2002 models have a build quality that is up where it should be.

    I am currently driving a 2002 Bravada for 2 weeks. I am on company business and got it as my rental. It has 22k on it and has been treated like crap (dents, scratches inside and out). All in all it runs great. It is only getting 16mpg in mixed driving. Haven't noticed any rattles. Engine is still smooth idling. There is a whistling noise around one of the windows above 60mph. This is annoying. I think I would opt for the Envoy or Trailblazer because the Smartrack system doesn't work that well in the snow. I would rather have a knob on the dash that lets me have some control over the 4wd system.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Yes, I meant the Trailblazer - 2002, inline 6, bigger and better. Much improved from the previous Blazer, but still shoddy. The plastics still had rough edges on some parts. Another shoddy build complaint - interior plastic parts that were supposed to interconnect never made it to their final destination. The same on the outside - the edges of the front and rear light covers did not quite match up to their intended slots. I remarked that with time, rain water can accumulate inside of them because they're not on as tight as they were intended to be.

    When compared with the outrageously huge bumper gap on the back end of the Dodge Durango, the Trailblazer is in a different league. I know that larger cars tend to have larger body panel gaps, but when compared to a Toyota Highlander or an Acura MDX, the build quality of the Chevy is shoddy at best.

    But getting back on topic, have we found out where that 9.3 second time for the Escape came from? What "previous test" was Edmunds talking about?
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    It's amazing how much mis-information there is out there on the internet. Aside from a dozen or so safety recalls, fires and other life threatening safety hazards that Ford has had to correct on the Escape/Tribute, hear are some other facts you might be interested in. You mention Gas mileage versus the Liberty; 18 city 23 Hwy versus 16/20. 3 mpg equals $3 a month in gas savings for a normal person. I would rather get a solid vehicle that can actually tow something for that huge extra expense.

    Second you mention that the Escape is much roomier than the Liberty. If you check Ford's website and compare the two, it is only bigger in 3 dimensions.
    Front leg room: 41.6 versus 40.8 inches. Wow huge by .4 inches.
    Second Row Hip Room: 49 versus 47.4 inches. Another wopping 1.6 inches.
    Cargo Room: 33 versus 29 cubic feet. Basically one more suitcase.

    These are actual stats, not to mention that interior build quality is superior to everything in the market short of Lexus. Transmission problems are reported falsly. This Tranny has been around since `99 and been flawless in everything from Durangos to Ram 1500.

    The decision is really clear. If you are patriotic, you will buy domestic products. If you are concerned about safty/reliability/longetivity, you will buy the Jeep. (In case you missed the news over the last year, Ford had to sell $10,000,000,000 in bonds to stay afloat because quality issues in everything they sell, shortage in sales and all the costly recalls in everything have cost them billions. Not to mention all of the lawsuits on everything from selling totalled Explorers as New ones to killing people on the tire issue in multiple countries.)

    Yeah, I want to buy from them... LOL.

    Chrysler has two great honors. The minivans have the fewest fatalities per accident of any vehicle ever sold in America and Jeeps have that honor for SUV's.
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    I have driven both and the Liberty feels far more stable than the Escape does but not as stable as the Honda to be honest. The Liberty also held up better in the crash test. If you look at the Escape, it buckled the entire roof and frame. The Liberty recieved a Marginal because the dummy's head leaned out the window after the test was done. Which to me is human error in placement of the dummy in the seat.
  • chevycamchevycam Member Posts: 54
    I own a 1997 Dodge Ram SS/T with the 360 V8 and every available option.

    I love the truck but it is the biggest piece of crap I have ever owned!
    It was in the shop 34 yes 34 times by its 3rd birthday. I finally had to take Dodge to court to get them to fix all of the problems. The only reason I didn't get them to buy it back was because I really liked the truck when I wasn't driving a loaner.

    Here are the top 6 problems:
    *Transmission slipping
    *Steering column replaced 3 times for binding while driving down the road.
    *HVAC that would only come out through the defrost
    *Oil consumption 1quart every 500miles.
    *Rattling Lifters
    *Runs in the factory paint

    All I got were excuses from Dodge. As much as I like the vehicles they make, the build quality is beyond poor.

    They have had many, yes many recalls and TSBs on their transmissions (mainly Truck and minivan).

    I don't know what Liberty you drove but the one I drove was very unstable and cramped inside. I drove the Escape and Tribute right after the Liberty. My wife and I both felt more in control of the Escape and felt we had more room.

    The 8.25 to 8.5 0-60 time (source autosite.com) makes it more fun to drive than the slower liberty (0-60 10.0 sec).

    Another plus for the Escape, it stops in about 145feet from 60mph. The liberty takes 197 feet. That could mean the difference between rear ending someone or not. That is 52 feet!
  • chevycamchevycam Member Posts: 54
    Liberty crash scores:
    Driver: Not Tested
    Passenger: Not Tested
    Side Impact Front: Not Tested
    Side Impact Rear: Not Tested
    Crash Offset: Marginal
    Bumper Bash: Poor
    Rollover Rating: Poor

    Escape Crash Test Scores:
    Driver: Excellent
    Passenger: Good
    Side Impact Front: Excellent
    Side Impact Rear: Excellent
    Crash Offset: Marginal
    Bumper Bash: Acceptable
    Rollover Rating: Average

    This data is from Edmunds.com
  • chevycamchevycam Member Posts: 54
    Yes the Escape/Tribute did have a rocky first year. Don't exagerate the recalls. The recalls were due to error during assembly not faulty design. The only two that were really potentially dangerous was the steering nut coming off and the 2wd rear hub separating.

    These have been taken care of and so far no recalls.

    Liberty has already had a serious one that would not have been caught if the insurance institute hadn't crash tested it. Having the airbag deploy late and punching you in the face could be deadly, escpecially for a small person that sits less than 9 inches from the steering wheel.

    Ford screwed up the first year because they were in a hury. It seems they have fixed the problems in the 2002 model.
  • canadatwocanadatwo Member Posts: 198
    Yes, the Liberty is a heftier, more capable oo-roader than the Escape. But again, that does not make it safer!

    1. Crash tests
    Post #26 summarizes the crash test data very well.
    2. Braking Distance
    An extra 50 feet for 60-0. The Escape truly has an amazingly short stopping distance. This is OFTEN the difference between getting into an accident and avoiding it. There are many Liberty owners complaining about the brakes on the Liberty
    3. Rollover tendancy
    Two magazines knock the Liberty for this. Cant wait to see what those folks at Consumer Reports have to say about this.

    IMHO, the Escape is probably the safer vehicle in day to day, on-road driving.
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    A 1997 Dodge Ram is not a 2002 Liberty but nice try.

    Follow this link: http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0105.htm#5

    This is the photo of the Ford Escape receiving the lowest safety rating in its class. Surprisingly enough Hyundai was the best. Then look at the Jeep Liberty at (http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0127.htm) and see how well it did. Not a single Poor rating in it's list. Do some research at www.iihs.org and you will find some good stuff.

    The 45RFE Auto transmission has been near flawless for 3 years now.

    I still have a problem buying from a company that has lied to it's customers (lawsuit by ford employees stating they sold totalled Explorers and labelled them as new) and has had the safety problems and recall problems they have had. Their reputation is showing with sales of thier vehicals reaching a 32 year low market share at 19.7%. People are getting smarter and not buying their poorly engineered cars and trucks.

    Not to keep up with my point but the headlines read "Competitors poised as Ford slips."

  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Pales in comparison to the Escape. For it to have a bigger and torquier engine, it doesn't use its power as efficiently as the Escape.

    It looks like a big Barbie car, anyway. And if one were to brag about its off-road prowess, Car And Driver just did a comparo between the Liberty and the Land Rover Freelander...they gave the nod to the Land Rover.
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    A 1997 Dodge Ram is not a 2002 Liberty but nice try.

    Follow this link: http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0105.htm#5

    This is the photo of the Ford Escape receiving the lowest safety rating in its class. Surprisingly enough Hyundai was the best. Then look at the Jeep Liberty at (http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0127.htm) and see how well it did. Not a single Poor rating in it's list. Do some research at www.iihs.org and you will find some good stuff.

    The 45RFE Auto transmission has been near flawless for 3 years now.

    I still have a problem buying from a company that has lied to it's customers (lawsuit by ford employees stating they sold totalled Explorers and labelled them as new) and has had the safety problems and recall problems they have had. Their reputation is showing with sales of thier vehicals reaching a 32 year low market share at 19.7%. People are getting smarter and not buying their poorly engineered cars and trucks.

    Not to keep up with my point but the headlines read "Competitors poised as Ford slips."

  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    I was just at the Detroit Auto Show this weekend. You want to talk about a cheaply made piece of crap. You could have put a piece of duct tape over the logo and written Daewoo on the hood with a magic marker and people would have believed it. I am talking about the $33000 high end model now. Both front seats were either broken or didn't work right. One side of the seat track would catch and try to pivot the seat under you, the cupholder was broken and wouldn't open up all the way without manual help, the knee bolster retaining clips were already stripped out so they used bungee cord to hold the knee bolster on and one of the taillights were falling out. You can have all of that for $33000 plus tax. I was there for 15 minutes and didn't hear a single good comment about it. In fact, people were running away from it because they didn't want to get blamed for the thing falling apart.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    to start a Liberty vs Escape room?
    The Liberty does have a cramped back seat when comparing it to the Escape. The entry and exit of the vehicle are awkward. Even the salesperson who was sitting in the rear struggled to get out!
    The Escape did have problems initially. The problems are gone now and have been ironed out.
    The 3.0 Duratec uses its power more effeciently than the 3.7 in the Liberty. The ride is also much better in the Escape just because of its dual independent suspension.
    Ford Escape and Explorer are two totally different issues. There are plenty of lawsuits for rollovers/Tire issues with Toyota and GM with Firestone. The fact is the Explorer is still a top seller! The other fact is the Explorer outsold all other SUV's in its class for many many years..
    Now, back to CRV vs Escape issues? My vote is the Escape wins hands down. Honda missed the boat and should have offered a V6 in the CRV. Ford is increasing 3.0 Duratec production to meet demand for the Escape/Taurus models. The Escape is the number one selling SUV in this segment! First year.. Explain that? if this SUV is so terrible...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You could try this one: Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute

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  • SamsdadSamsdad Member Posts: 17
    My wife and I have been comapring all of the small SUVs over the last few weeks, getting ready to buy. After all of the comparisons: Safety, comfort, interior room, drive, price, styling, warrenty. We were surprised that we both like the Hyundai Santa Fe the best, by far. It was also the least expensive, even when fully loaded with leather AWD ABS etc. I own an F150, and was partial to Ford, she owns an acord, and really thought the CRV was for her, until she and i drove the Santa Fe. After that the decision was easy.
  • chevycamchevycam Member Posts: 54
    First of all, you must work for Daimler-Chrysler. The writing is in black and white:

    1. The IIHS test is included in my post. The only test the IIHS did was the offset frontal. Their website breaks down the offset frontal into six subcategories. Overall they scored the Liberty and the Escape as MARGINAL. So the Liberty and the Escape are the same for the offset frontal.

    2. From my previous post, the Escape did very well on all other categories.

    3. The Escapes and Tributes are selling so well that it is hard to find more than one or two on a dealer's lot. Ford isn't offering ANY incentives. No 0% financing and No cash back on the Escapes. If you order one you have to wait 8 - 10 weeks for delivery. I have been to two Jeep dealers, both had more than five on the lot.

    4. The Dodge Ram may not be a Jeep Liberty but it is made by the same company. I know more unhappy Dodge,Jeep,Chrysler owners than I do Ford,Lincoln,Mercury owners. To even further that point I know twice as many owners of Ford products so you would think I would know more unhappy Ford owners.

    5.) I would bet the family farm (if I had one) that Consumer Reports will find the Jeep Liberty unsafe when it comes to rollovers.

    6.)If I did 95% of my driving up and down rocky hills and muddy swamps, I would get the Liberty. It is a true off roader. Since I do 95% of my driving on paved roads, the more stable, safer, more powerful, roomier Ford Escape is clearly the better choice!

    7.) Check out Caranddriver.com, they rated the Escape/Tribute #1 of 11.

    I have a feeling I am talking to a brick wall so I am getting off of my soap box knowing that one day you will realize the truth. I just hope it doesn't happen after an accident in a Liberty! Tell your buddies at Daimler-Chrysler Headquarters I said hi!
  • chevycamchevycam Member Posts: 54
    The Hyundai Santa Fe is a nice SUV. My wife wasn't crazy about the styling. I found it appealing. The interior was nice. The warranty was great. There were two things that made me rule it out:
    1. It was a little slow on pick up.
    2. I was told there was no sunroof offered.

    The above items were very important to me. People who don't want a sun roof or a lot of pick up would find the vehicle extremely inviting.
    I test drove the 2001 model last January.

    A friend at work has a 2001 model with 20k miles and has had no problems. She has been very happy with it.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    To answer the original questions...

    The 9.3 seconds for the automatic Escape comes from the Edmunds mini-suv comparo from a few months ago. Times for most all vehicles are a bit 'off' when compared to other magazine scores.

    As stated above, the CR-V was tested with a 5 speed manual. The reason why that is important can be found in the gearing. The CR-V's first gear is almost a creeper gear. When compared to the Grand Vitara a few years back, we found that 1st gear was closer to Lo 1 than the GV's normal 1st gear. The new 5 speed isn't quite as aggressive, but it isn't far off. The low gearing means that it doesn't require much torque to quickly reach its peak torque and hp potential.

    The next possibility to consider is related to gearing, but not the kind you'll find in a transmission. The CR-V's tires are smaller. It runs on 205/70/15 rolling stock. The smaller diameter means it can launch well off the line. Of course it's a different story when you get up above 60mph.

    Next there is simple efficiency in the drivetrain. HP and torque numbers are taken at the flywheel. As I'm sure everyone knows, HP at the flywheel is not the same thing as power at the wheels. Through the process of getting that power through the transmission and other drivetrain parts, there are losses due to friction, parasitic power drain, and simply bad design. Typically, you see about 10-20% of power lost in the drivetrain. Honda does an excellent job of getting that power through while minimizing these losses. I haven't seen dyno of either of these vehicles, so there's no data to use. I'm just listing it as a possible reason. Given that Ford has a history of trouble with the Escape's tranny, this could be part of the deal.

    With all that said, I would agree that the Edmunds 9.3 score is high. Maybe that test mule had seen a lot of abuse. I would also say that a CR-V with an automatic tranny would not beat the mid 8 second runs that the Escape has made. However, the 8.8 (in the rain) score for the 5 speed CR-V is actually higher than the 8.4 and 8.5 second times I've read in other publications. In terms of sprints, I would rate the Escape and 5 speed CR-V about the same.

    p.s. It's the Saturn VUE that the Escape owners are going to have to watch at stop lights. I haven't seen anything over 8.5 secs for that truck.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    history? for Escape? Please tell me where you get this data?
    Hyundia needs to beef up the V6 in the Santa FE. Power to weight ratio is way off. V6 has 4cyl power.. Styling is a love it or hate it no in between. I would not buy Korean because I am educated on their trade practices...... To each their own though...
    I believe Honda will meet the challange in the next couple of years with a V6 for the CRV, its only a matter of time. RAV4 will also grow a bit in the next generation and also offer a V6 is my guess too. The Highlander is way, way too expensive for what you get in options when comparing...
    For right now the Escape/Trib are on top. The consumer makes the choice. And as was said all rebates/incentives are gone for Escape/Trib and they are selling like hotcakes!
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Thanks varmit.

    "An impressive feat considering that the last Ford Escape we tested only managed a best time of 9.3 seconds, and that was with a 200-horsepower V6 under the hood."

    Odd since the Escape they tested just 5 months before that got 0-60 in 8.8 seconds.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    I'm not here to bash the Escape for all of it's problems, so I'll leave it at this one link. I'm simply suggesting that the Escape's tranny may not be as efficient at getting power to the wheels. I don't know why. I'm just offering a known problem that was resolved late in production as a possibility.

    So far we know that the manual CR-V seems to be on par with the auto Escape. This despite having similar weight and a 40 hp and 40 lb-ft deficit under the hood. If you don't like my suggestions, I'll welcome your explanation. The difference may just be gearing. It might be that the Escape is overshod. It could be that the tranny works flawlessly, but the design stinks. Maybe Ford is mistaken about the engine output. Maybe Ford is mistaken about how much the Escape weighs. Take your pick...

  • canadatwocanadatwo Member Posts: 198
    horespower and torque curves of the two motors?

    The vtec in the honda may be working exceptionally well.
  • chevycamchevycam Member Posts: 54
    Having owned several Hondas I can think of one negative to the CRV.

    When you load it down with people and turn the air conditioner on, you lose a lot of the get up and go. Add a few steep hills and you will really see.

    Honda makes great vehicles. They know how to take a small engine, mate it to a manual transmission and leave you amazed. Load it down and you realize a four cylinder has its limits.

    If Honda put the 3.0 liter 6 cylinder from the Accord in the CRV, mate it with a manual, it would flat out scare you!

    My '99 Accord EX coupe V6 runs well loaded or empty.

    My previous '94 Civic Ex coupe did great with one or two people. Load it down and turn the air on and you really had to work it hard.

    If the CRV had a V6 in it, I wouldn't be looking at the Escape.
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    Canadatwo - That's a good thought. Even so, the power curves only come into play for the very first part of a 0-60 sprint. Once you reach red-line the first time, you shift, then you're only using the top quarter of the rpm band. I know that the CR-V would require a shift to third before it reached 60 mph. I'm not sure about the Escape, but it's pretty likely.

    Chevycam - Have you driven the '02 CR-V? It might surprize you. Based on my experience with my 99, 133 lb-ft is enough to haul a loaded CR-V up through the hills of Franconia Notch and the White Mountains of New Hampshire. The trouble is that I have to go to 4500 rpms to find that power (doing this actually brings a grin to my face, but it's not for everybody). In contrast, the new CR-V has 90% of peak torque from 2200 rpms. It's no 3.0 V6, but it's not your average 4 cylinder.

    '02 power curves

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    this article is from March 2000 though....!! I am talking something more recent. We are now aproaching March 2002...
    "All these problems" are blown way out of porportion here. I am the first to admit Ford stumbled and fumbled with its 6 months of production of Escapes/Tribs. But to say that every Escape/Trib from here on out for years to come is going to have problems is a bit to much...
  • varmitvarmit Member Posts: 1,125
    My understanding from reading these boards is that the tranny is the same (or nearly the same) as the one used in the Mazda 626. Shortly after production began, there was a great deal of concern about this. Apparently, the 626 was well known for problems with the transmission. I don't know that any of those problems continued with the Escape, but that stop sale seemed to confirm people's fears.

    Hmmm... I just noticed that Webshots is giving me an error when I try to access the pic of the hp and torque curves. I'll see if I can repost it from another location.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    It is widely know that manual tranny's are more efficient than automatics. That alone can probably explain why the CRV is able to keep up with the Escape in 0-60, (unloaded).

    The Escape is overshod (although I'm not sure what that means).
    The tranny design does not stink.
    Ford is not mistaken about engine output, (understanding that most of the HP/Torque measurments are done at the flywheel, and not at the rear wheels).
    Ford is not mistaken about the weight..

    What the efficiency of the Honda automatic tranny vs the Ford automatic tranny. I bet they are very similar..
  • tiredofmanualtiredofmanual Member Posts: 338
    The reason the two are pretty much neck and neck is the efficiency of a manual vs an automatic, the smaller diameter wheels, and most likely different gear ratios.

    However, load the two up, send them accelerating up a hill and the Escape will easily pull away from the CRV.
  • bessbess Member Posts: 972
    the efficiency is not even close. During acceleration the automatic tranny is in a constant state of slipping. With the manual, there's very little loss of power through the tranny compared to any automatic..

    The 5speeds in both vehicles have very car like quick shifts, and except for the split second the user is shifting, all the HP/torque the engine is generating is reaching the rear wheels..

    It is unfortunate that Ford doesn't put a 5sp in the V6 Escape, otherwise this discussion would be a moot point..
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    for V6 may come in 2004 is one rumor on another messsage board..
    Fact is you just can't beat a V6 for torque and HP Curve. As one person said....
    Put 4 adults and luggage into both of these vehicles and I would bet the Escape would win everytime... up hill or on flat pavement....
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