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Comments
Every year, after the first snow fall I take my car that I will be driving in the winter to a deserted parking lot and re-learn how to drive it in the snow and to reaquaint my self with the vehicle's limits. This year it is the CR-V that is my winter car. Part of the test is to "make doughnuts" This allows me to learn what the adhesion limits are in the snow, as well as the car's responces to my inputs (steering, gas, brakes). With the VSC ON the CR-V absolutley would not "make doughnuts" the computer cuts the engine power and apllyies brakes to keep the car going in the direction I turn the steering wheel. There are no ifs or buts. Another test is the emergency avoidance. With the VSC ON I speed up and then swerve to avoid a "deer." CR-V just does what I tell it to do.
WIth the VSC OFF, I can "make doughnuts" by coaxing the rear to swing with the throttle. And in avoidance maneuver the car just starts to slide sideways when "deer" jumps on the "road"
So, yes, it is working. I have yet to use it on the road, but it is nice to know it is there.
VSC is the reason Honda had to install drive by wire in the 2005 and on CR-V. VSC has the authority to over-ride driver's inputs to the throttle and to apply brakes. One of the nicest features of the VSC in this Honda is when it is OFF, it really is OFF.
I'll pretend I am Scape2 and just ignore it. :-)
tidester, host
A. Built in limited numbers
B. Built in the early 80's
But of course, your abrasive attitude is tough to reason with in the first place...
"And once again the Honda norm, the normal generalization that Ford "can't" do anyting right. Ford can't build a quality, reliable vehicle. Nope.. Its this kind of ignorance that just kills me!..."
I would love to know where you drum this up from, seriously. Even those who have TRIED to reason with you end up getting blasted with this incessant garbage.
BTW, My sisters 05' XLT, brand new by the way had a tranny and rear diff replacment the SAME week she bought the thing. Know what? She still adores it and you don't find me saying "Ford's are unreliable pieces of garbage"...
No of course not. But I'll end being accused of the typical Honda Lover/Ford basher... God forbid, I like both.
And the million dollar question is: What does SVO stand for?
"Developed by Ford's Special Vehicle Operations in the early 1980s, the Mustang SVO was an icon of Ford's commitment to producing a new generation of high-performance automobiles and racing products, as well as a renewed involvement in motorsports after abandoning them in the early 1970s. There were only 9,844 Mustang SVOs to roll-off the assembly line during their production from 1984-86, and today few people know that they were ever produced."
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
I recently decided to change out of my CR-V due to some knee problems I've been having. I needed more legroom. So I went shopping. I sat in an Escape in the showroom and discovered that it has so much legroom I actually had to move the seat forward! So I decided to include it on my shopping list. Here is my verdict. I drove the Escape hybrid.
First of all, if you need LOTS of legroom up front, the Escape has it over the CR-V, which has much more rear legroom.
That is the only thing I preferred about the Escape. There were several items I noticed that made me decline the Escape. The following is a comparison with the CR-V, all IMHO.
1. Escape had a rougher ride.
2. The Escape tipped over more in turns. I noticed it even when moving fairly slowly (about 20 MPH). It didn't tip a lot, or excessively, but compared to CR-V engineering it was much more tippy. I wouldn't have worried except that the Escape isn't offered with stability control. This factor was the "deal killer" for me on the Escape.
3. The rear seating situation is not so good, especially in the hybrid - the rear seats did not recline at all. I think they do recline in the gas Escape, but I'm not sure.
4. The fit and finish were not up to Honda standards. Everything fit "OK", but there were some gaps, and in general, when the Escape went over a bump, I felt the parts shift around a bit. That doesn't happen with a CR-V.
5. Looking at the cargo area, it was much smaller (discounting the lack of under cargo storage - the hybrid uses that space for batteries). The under cargo area is shallower than the CR-V, even on the gas Escape.
6. The Escape had the Audiophile sound - no comparison, the Ford has the vast edge in sound over the CR-V with this option!
7. Last and least definitive - the overall picture. For whatever reason, the Escape just didn't seem designed as well as the CR-V. Not surprising since the Escape was designed in 1999 or so. My overall feeling was that it would be a step down from the CR-V to the Escape. In my situation, that is.
I will grant that perhaps I prefer Honda engineering, but keep in mind that I did eventually go with a Ford (the Freestyle).
Steve, Host
Yeah, I am driving Escape more often, because she does not feel as safe in it as she does in the CR-V. In a few snow storms I have driven the CR-V, the combination of Stick, AWD, VSA, ABS has worked.
I noticed a few things about the Escape.
The perceived abundance of torque is due to the design of the throttle. The actuator is oval, so the initial tip in produces a half open throttle, while continued pressure on the pedal yields only marginally bigger openning. This gives you the feeling of tons of torque, when in reality you are just running with throttle half open. It makes it difficult for finite low speed "drive ups".
I drove the CR-V from NYC to Buffalo in the last weekend's Blizzard, and CR-V pulled strongly. The car was in at least 2 feet of snow, I cleared the path to the door, cleared the snow off the top and just drove out of the parking spot (parallel parking in NYC). Driving through the Bronx into NJ the VSA made sure the car stayed on the path I intended for it to go by applying brakes to different wheels when needed.
As soon as winter is over, I am getting my Honda back :-)
That's interesting information, blue...Thanks
Congrats on the Freestyle Steve.
I am reading on the net the Escape may not be going away. Big changes for 07/08 model year.. Trying to find out more.
Hey AnythingbutGM, congrats on your Freestyle. I see quite a few of these around these days in my area. In fact a family friend bought a Freestyle about a week ago in silver. Nice vehicle for those who don't want a van but want the utility of an SUV, ride of a car.
Anyhoo... back to CRV vs Escape... :P
The Freestyle (like the CR-V) has power window switches that have to be pulled up to raise the window.
The power window switches were another factor in my decision not to get the Escape hybrid.
FWIW, I drove Ford cars for about 20 years, until the mid 1990's. I am certainly not "anti-Ford" - I'm driving one now. I definitely prefer Ford to GM or Chrysler products. But I must stand by my view that the CR-V is the better vehicle - except for MPG with the hybrid Escape, and towing with the V6 Escape. And massive front legroom, of course.
PS. Welcome back, scape; this forum wouldn't be the same without you!
It should be interesting to watch what unfolds with a new CR-V due out in 2007 and some form of a renewed small SUV from Ford.
Let the games begin!
That would be a kinder gentler nightmare?
tidester, host
personally, i have never liked them. i keep the switches locked unless asked to unlock.
the only window that usually gets opened is the moonroof.
Well, someone needs to tell Ford. I just saw the old style on a 2006 Escape Hybrid.
Escape: Base price 26,442...miles per year 25,000...gas price 2.25...total cost minus tax credit 2100 = 33,712.
CRV: My dealer quote 21,411...miles 25,000...gas price 2.25 total cost = 30,561.
Now if gas was 3.00 per gal the Escape is still about 400. more.
If they are really interested in cutting oil useage, maybe they should price the hybrids closer to the regular gas models and crank up production. Any why don't Honda have a CRV Hybrid????
It looks like the CRV wins in my book, and since I am already driving a '90 Civic with 321,000 miles, I kind of like that dependablity.
Welcome back scape.
I promise to be nice Tide.. I will probably be leaving this room in the next 3-6months anyway. I will probably be selling my 01 Escape XLT 4x4 V6 this summer somtime. I have my eye on either a Fusion SEL V6 or a Jetta TDI in red!..
Anyhoo... the Escape just seems to run and run with no problems at 65,000 miles...Cheers!
MDX is a great vehicle. I tried out a Pilot, but my wife is very short, and she would have had to step pretty far up to get into a larger SUV. The Freestyle is about like the CR-V for access - just slide right in.
Good luck on that one. Jetta tdi's are getting hard to find and they aren't bring any in for '07. Hopefully, this will make my '03 Jetta wagon tdi 5 speed worth more.
In fact, I will probably inherit it from her in the fall when she gets either a new TL or G35 (or C-4matic/3..xi/A4/). Actually the Accord V6/6 spd is in there as well...
Cheers!
i remember driving a camry in '95 that had them.
Ford does not know how to innovate anymore. The Fusion looks like reverse engineered Caddilac CTS.
They did a good job with the Mustang, but it would have been really difficult to mess that up, considering they had 30 some years to do it. :-)
Welcome back Scape2. :-)
HP has a group here that does nothing but buy competing printers to see how they are made. That's part of innovation these days I guess.
Steve, Host
If what you are saying is true, then the Murano and CR-V are competitors. Nope.
It's tough to beat the perfection of the mustang design. even the v6 model with the 'pony package' is a jaw dropper.
didn't the Liberty outsell the CR-V and Escape last year?
Where did that come from? What does it mean?
Granted, looks like its from Australia. But the Escape is made in the U.S...
Took the wifes Tribute ES V6 4x4 over the coast range this weekend. I know you CRV owners claim the I-4 is just as powerful.. I convinced an owner of a Maroon CRV otherwise...He tried and tried to keep up with me up hills, around corners, ect... no go...
Did you both floor it around each turn and straight-away? Can you be sure he was floored the whole time?
No, but I trust your personal judgement. If you say your Escape is faster than that man's CR-V, I have no way ot prove or disprove you. Good for you if it's true.
Then again, the CR-V is the one with i-VTEC, so while the Ford is screaming and running out of the breath, my little CR-V is just purring away. I consistently hit 5500 rpms in 3rd gear when passing on our numerous two lane roads in this area, and it never ceases to amaze me at how QUIET it is. That, and the fact I've NEVER done that in a domestic, if for no other reason than they feel like they're going to blowup.
PS - If anyone wants REAL power in a cute ute, go for the new RAV4 with the V6.
Take it to the racetrack may be the best approach...
Granted, looks like its from Australia. But the Escape is made in the U.S... "
Sorry, scape, to me that looks like the same Escape with new sheet metal. Look at the overall design...
Take a look at the difference between the 2001 and 2002 CR-V to see a complete redesign. Ford stuck a new interior and sheet metal on the old mechanicals, which are unchanged.
How do you know this? :confuse:
And another point I forgot to mention the guy in the CRV started the whole fiasco not me. I just finished it.. :P
Here we go again. Just because Honda complied with the new regulations and Ford did not does not mean that the engine in the CR-V haqs been downgraded. Ford is still using the old method to measure HP, while Honda is complying with the new method. You never stop to amaze me. Ignorance is definatly bliss.
Even if Honda engine has been downgraded, it just says more about it beating Escape in all 0-60 runs by more than a second.
Steve, Host
Well, for one thing, Ford would have been trumpeting the "new design", and they aren't. Also, except for VVT on the I4, the engines are the same. The styling I base on the fact that it looks just like the current model with different sheet metal.
If you can find something that says it is a complete redesign, I will stand corrected - and surprised. Ford tends to build cars on a "world" basis when possible, which means they would have designed it for use both down under and in the US.
Unless, of course, they "re-badged" some other manufacturer's vehicle...
Umm, Passport anyone? At least when Ford does it they own the manufacturer. :P