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CR-V vs Escape

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    diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    "So many engineers are writing here BUT still can't conclude the fact that Honda builds the best 4 cylinders in the world!"

    (I've only seen 2 claim to be engineers on this board, and I seriously think one of 'em is lying)
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    hondaman01hondaman01 Member Posts: 163
    You may have a point there!
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    diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    And here's why:


    http://carpoint.msn.com/advice/windowshop.aspx?contentid=4018601&Pos=Edit1&src=Home

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    daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    First of all you don't need every single owner to show every single problem out there. There is a thing called STATISTICS!

    Statistics are used to make your drinking water, for your plastic, to make your FORD more reliable, to make CRV's more reliable. Statistics is a science which governs every thing that we have today in modern culture. Things are optimized to work through statistics. Consumer reports uses statistics to determine vehicle reliablity, they take a sample, representive of the population, this shows what works and doesn't work as well. NOONE can take data from every single vehicle out there, there are 80 million or so registered vehicles in america!!!! That is why we use statistics, it is a feasabile and reliable way of developing techonolgy and for modeling reliabilty and so many other things. So why WOULDN'T you trust statistics and consumer reports?

    Not to, is being obtuse.
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    altoonaltoon Member Posts: 64
    When you start adding up all the evidence - consumer reports surveys, number of consumer complaints, expert opinion, and overall reputation, it becomes pretty clear that Hondas are one of the most reliable vehicles on the road.

    Where is the evidence for Ford's reliability?
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    bessbess Member Posts: 972
    As you know, depending on how you gather your sample data and how you perform your statistical analysis, the results can lead to statements that are simply not true..

    There is plenty of evidence of Ford Escapes reliability (to keep on topic of Escape vs CRV rather than the Ford vs Honda).
    -Hundreds of thousands of Escape Owners who like their vehicle and would buy another one.
    -Edmunds customer rating of 8.9 for the Escape
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    goldencouple1goldencouple1 Member Posts: 209
    Once upon a time there was a problem in Ford truck motors called "marbling" -- it might still be a problem, I don't know, but once it was all the rage on the Ford truck boards. In essence, the problem was that you started your truck and it sounded like the engine was full of marbles. There were complaints. Eventually, Ford began to address them. Eventually, engines were replaces for those customers that complained long enough and loud enough. Then the replacement engines started to go bad. Then there were too many requests for replacements. Then Ford decided it was not a problem anymore: LIVE WITH IT was the reply. What happened after that I do not know. I lost interest. You see, I had my own Ford truck problems. If there is a conspiracy concerning Ford quality, the main culprit is Ford, and when Ford Motor Company gets its head out of its corporate emergency exit, then Ford will get back on the right track. And if I sound bitter it is because I wanted and expected more from Ford -- I wanted a sound, reliable vehicle, and I did not get it.
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    altoonaltoon Member Posts: 64
    You are right - every survey has validity issues. No single study will ever prove anything (for that matter according to Popper's falsification theory NOTHING can ever be proven - only disproved) My point is that there seems to be considerable evidence from numerous sources that Honda is an extremely reliable vehicle. This is relevant to the CRV vs. Escape debate because many people prefer the CRV because it is a Honda. There is some evidence that Ford does make some reliable vehicles, but the overall reliability of Ford products does not seem to be well supported (the company itself has admitted to reliability problems in the past). I don't mean to imply that they produce totally unreliable vehicles, but this has not been their strong suit. It may be too early to judge the overall reliability of either the Escape or the new CRV, but based on past history I opted to put my money on the CRV.
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    according to Popper's falsification theory NOTHING can ever be proven - only disproved

    Which raises the obvious question: Can Popper's falsification theory be proved? Perhaps we shouldn't go there!

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
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    altoonaltoon Member Posts: 64
    LOL! Yes, we probably don't want to go there unless you would like to turn this into a philosophy discussion.
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    npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    Unfortunately, nothing can ever be disproven either, because in order to disprove something, you have to prove your theory about the theory you're disproving, thereofre, you're theory can only be disproven, and not proven.

    I dare anyone to disprove that they know what I'm talking about. Hahaha! :)

    On the subject of CR-V versus Escape, and how environment friendly Honda is.....Ford is making a hybrid Escape. Where is Honda's hybrid CR-V? Hmmm?
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    bessbess Member Posts: 972
    I thought I heard that Honda was working on a hybird CRV.. I don't throw too many stones that way.. on average the CRV gets better mpg's than the Escape, and Honda had one of the first commercially available hybird vehicles (Insight) on the market, (it's ugly as crap, but it was first).
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    hondaman01hondaman01 Member Posts: 163
    Honda is one of the only companies that all their engines surpass ALL worldwide government demands for emissions so if I were you, I would not go there! Ford does not even come close to this argument!
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    diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    And where is Ford's hybrid Focus? Hmmm?
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    npaladin2000npaladin2000 Member Posts: 593
    The Focus sucks...Ford knows what sells in the US. SUVs. So their first hybrid will be an SUV. Simple.
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    diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    There's got to be a reason why it's on C&D's top 10 list 3 years in a row. If it weren't for the odd looks (both exterior and interior), I would've seriously bought one over my Civic. Although with the nascent recalls, I'm a little glad I didn't.
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "When you guys or some other publication can show me a report that lists the total number of problems per vehicle based on data collected from every single owner. Then I'll believe that one is better than the other. Until then, they're both pretty equal in my eyes."

    What you are asking for is both impossible and unnecessary. Asking for it is a good way to show that you are unwilling to listen to reason. Stats based on a statistically significant sample are fair evidence.

    "There is plenty of evidence of Ford Escapes reliability (to keep on topic of Escape vs CRV rather than the Ford vs Honda).
    -Hundreds of thousands of Escape Owners who like their vehicle and would buy another one.
    -Edmunds customer rating of 8.9 for the Escape"

    This information has nothing to do with reliability. Reliability and "like" are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to like a car because it is reliable, but it is also possible to like a car despite the fact that it breaks down all the time.

    "On the subject of CR-V versus Escape, and how environment friendly Honda is.....Ford is making a hybrid Escape. Where is Honda's hybrid CR-V? Hmmm?"

    Honda was able to meet their goals without using a hybrid drive. The only vehicles that get better mpg in this class are 200-400 lbs lighter and do not have the same hauling capacity for people and stuff. The CR-V is also the cleanliest vehicle in this class. With an LEVII rating, it is twice as clean as many of the competition.

    Honda already has two hybrids in the US, and the CR-V is based on the same platform as one of them. If Honda decides to make an IMA CR-V, it shouldn't take more than a years or so to get it
    to market.

    What amuses me is the lack of an HEV Escape. That vehicle has been on the drawing board for about 3 years and there's still no sign of it. Originally, Ford seemed to be hyping their own hybrid system. Now, I've been told that Ford paid to use a design from Toyota. They announced plans for it back in 2000, now we're told to expect it as a 2004 model.
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "When you guys or some other publication can show me a report that lists the total number of problems per vehicle based on data collected from every single owner. Then I'll believe that one is better than the other. Until then, they're both pretty equal in my eyes."

    Maybe I should explain myself. I said this for two reasons:

    1. The so called CR statistical evidence does not prove anything. Several times I have posted a link from USA Today that tells us how they fail to collect equal numbers of surveys for each vehicle. For example, (and I can't believe I'm typing this again) when one vehicle's numbers are calculated from 100 surveys and the other vehicle's numbers are calculated from 5000 surveys, results can be skewed somewhat. Again, I'm not saying that this is the case here. But CR doesn't let us know how many surveys they had for each (and they only send out something like 250,000 total for all makes and models), so I have to question their numbers. As altoon said, it may be too early to judge reliability of these two vehicles, and Honda has the better record going for it to this point.

    varmint,
    CR's stats are not based on a statistically significant sample. How many Escape's and CR-V's were sold last year? 3-4 hundred thousand? They sent out 250,000 total surveys to owners of all makes and all models. Not just Ford and Honda. That breaks down to what, like a few hundred to a thousand surveys for each vehicle? We're supposed to believe that a few hundred owners (the one's who actually took the time to fill the survey out honestly) are a significant sample of the hundreds of thousands of Escape and CR-V owners? Pulling numbers out of a magazine is not how you reason. You need to think for yourself from time to time.

    2. I knew it was impossible and I wanted to get off this over-discussed subject. It looks like I only succeeded in making it worse. I'm not the one who thinks Honda's are unreliable and I don't remember where all this came from in the first place. I really don't think we can truly measure the reliability of these two vehicles for another year or two when warranties start to run out.

    Oh yeah, now I remember. I asked muckyduck for a few links that show the awesome superiority of the CR-V when compared to the Escape, and all I got was another "Honda is the greatest" speech. Must have been quarter draft night at the Muckyduck lounge.
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    altoonaltoon Member Posts: 64
    Actually a sample size of a few hundred is plenty big enough to get significant and meaningful results. I've seen serious research papers in well known academic publications with sample sizes under 100. Uneven sample sizes are problematic and not desirable, but this can be dealt with by using the proper statistical tools. Researchers encounter this problem frequently. Probably the biggest threat to validity with the CR data is the lack of randomness in the sample. This is an inherent problem with any survey research. There are ways to test the randomness of the sample and we do not know if CR does this or not.

    The CR studies are not perfect, but no research is. That doesn't mean they are totally invalid. We just have to understand the potential flaws and see it as a single piece of evidence.
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    muckyduckmuckyduck Member Posts: 219
    "A witty saying proves nothing, but saying something pointless gets people's attention." - Dave Berry
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    daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    I would have to agree with altoon on all his points in the post above. I wonder how CR sample data. If they call people then you are only going to get a certain kind of person to answer your questions. This problem is far more pronounced when asking somebody who they want for president versus how does your car run.

    In the president example all the people who like Mr. John Doe might like to talk on the phone with statistic people and like to participate in surveys. If all the people who like Mrs. Janet Snowe don't like surveys, they will hang up. Even if more people want Mrs. Janet Snowe the survey misrepresents her because the survey would show that noone wants her to be president.

    When it comes to automobiles, if someone doesn't answer the question/survey, its not a big deal. If everyone who owns Escapes don't like surveys, the outcome of that is their will be less data points, the same number of disatisfied owners is a ratio and in theory this ratio will be the same whether you have 100 data points or 100,000 data points. If all the CRV owners love surveys, there will be more data points, but the same number of satisfied owners ration would be the same.
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    markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    This is a silly argument over CR's sampling. If there is one thing that CR does pretty well, it is send out surveys and crunch the numbers. If you look at any of their job postings, they are always looking for statistical skills. And they are always flagging vehicles which they don't have a statistically valid sample. Argue about the CR-V and Escape if you want, but please, don't argue about whether CR knows what they're doing in running a survey.

    And keep in mind that CR is the only source of data we have which ostensibly has no axe to grind. Current owners generally love their cars and will look past any fault. They're totally biased. The car magazines generally love all cars, and certainly don't spend more than 10-seconds of every hour discussing reliability issues.

    CR is the best data we've got. It's not gospel, but it is certainly is our best estimate of vehicle reliability.

    - Mark
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    diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I think all statistics are performed with an axe to grind. It's only a matter of being overt vs. covert. I've never received a survey from either CR or J.D. Power when I bought my new car, nor one from CR for our family's older cars. It certainly makes me wonder who they're surveying.
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    davegh and altoon,
    I see your points, but I don't know who CR sends it's surveys out to so we'll just have to live with what we've got.

    Consider this scenario though:
    500 surveys each are sent out for both car A and car B.

    Out of those 500 for car A, the real number of negative reports is 100 and the real number of positive reports is 400. Out of car B's 500 we have 50 negative and 450 positive.

    Later on...
    Only 150 surveys total are received for car A - 75 are negative and 75 are positive.

    All but fifty surveys are received for car B - 45 are negative and 455 are positive.

    Now we show a 50% problem rate for car A and a 10% (actually a little under 10) problem rate for car B. In reality, car A only has a 20% rate, and car B still has its 10% rate.

    Size does matter. Even though some people say it doesn't.

    markjenn,
    USA Today questioned CR's methods in an article earlier this year. Read back through the posts to find the link.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I participate in one (non-auto) survey every other month. It takes ~3 minutes and I get $10 for doing it. I don't do any surveys for "free." (ok, sometimes I do, but then I lie, LOL).

    I don't see any posts in here talking about a "USA Today - CR" article. Sure it wasn't somewhere else, like the Consumer Reports? discussion?

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    steve,

    No offence, but the search feature on this site is the pits. I posted this link two or three times before, so it probably should come up in a search.


    Anyway,

    Here it is again:


    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002-03-12-crcars.htm

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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    CR sends their surveys out to CR subscribers. If you do not subscribe to CR, you will not get their survey.

    CR's survey is conducted with a long written format. It is not a telephone call. They request that owners report only "serious" issues with the car. They include detailed descriptions of what "serious" means. Since the people filling it out are CR subscribers, they already know the drill.

    If CR does not get a minimum of 100 surveys for a vehicle, they do not publish anything for that car. Given that the CR-V and Escape are both best sellers, you can probably bet that they get good results for each vehicle. They get at least 100 surveys for the Forester and that vehicle sells less than half as many units as these.

    Does the size of the sampling matter? Yes, it does. A larger sample is less likely to be swayed one way or the other by extreme results from a minority. However, with the sales figures of both models being so high, it's a pretty safe bet that they also get a high number of responses for both.

    That often posted USA article does nothing to incriminate CR. It is not the smoking gun that some folks seem to think it is. All it tells us is that sometimes CR doesn't get enough data for specific models. Ummm.. DUH!! CR publishes a nice fat "not enough data" stamp right over the car's rating. This is obvious to anyone who reads the CR ratings, so there's no big news there.

    What that article does tell us is...

    "Automakers say they take Consumer Reports' findings seriously."

    Then they make a comparison between the data from CR and the results of the JD Powers surveys. However, the article fails to mention that the two surveys ask for completely different things. The CR survey asks for "serious" problems, while the JD Powers survey is for "any" problem. The CR data is based on the full length of ownership, while the JD study only reflects the first 90 days of ownership. Obviously, they represent two different data sets. Comparing them directly, as done in that article, is bogus.

    Lastly, we are not talking about a small margin here. In past years, the CR-V was rated 70-80% higher than the industry average. The Escape was rated 40% below the industry average in the last rankings.
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    "Given that the CR-V and Escape are both best sellers, you can probably bet that they get good results for each vehicle."

    As stated in the article, Pontiac sold nearly 200,000 Grand Am's but still did not receive enough surveys (100 is their minimum) to be rated. Knowing how many surveys were received from and how many they sent out to CR-V/Escape owners would clear this up real fast. Just knowing that a popular vehicle like the Grand Am didn't receive enough responses should at least make you start to wonder. Right?

    "But General Motors spokesman Brian Akre says the reliability surveys "reflect the views only of those who take the time to fill out their long forms, and that is not a scientifically random sampling method.""

    Automakers take the data seriously because people like some of those around here believe every word of it. According to Mr. Akre (above), they really don't believe all of it either. But again, a little more info from CR could clear all of this up.

    "However, with the sales figures of both models being so high, it's a pretty safe bet that they also get a high number of responses for both."

    When were the surveys collected? If it was back in 2001, it's a pretty safe bet that they did not get many back due to the fact that neither one has been on the market that long.

    They don't state the year, but if the Corvette and DeVille's initial quality ratings were high in the same year CR did their reliability surveys, the two sets of results should be very similar. The results should then start to separate as the years go by and people have more problems to report to CR.
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    daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    My experience between myself and those around me from family to friends I can tell you right now that CR seems pretty accurate to me. It says Honda's, Toyota's etc are reliable. All my family and friends never had any problems with any of those cars, except for normal wear and tear. My family and friends whom have had Ford and Dodge vehicles have often called there cars junky because of the problems that occur. These experiences once again further my trust in CR.

    How does this relate to the Escape and CRV?

    CR has accurately depicted the reliability of the vehicles in my life and those close to me. So if CR says the CRV is more reliable then the Escape, significantly more reliable! Then I am going to believe it, not 100% but pretty darn close.

    In addition to this, my previously owned 98 CRV did not have a SINGLE problem with 70k miles! Not one! My friends V6 feels like it is falling apart, ALREADY. The brake pedal is loose and the weather stripping along the driver door is falling out and you have to keep pushing it up and back in.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ah, it seems you spelled "USA Today" as one word and I missed it:

    baggs32 Apr 10, 2002 9:18am

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
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    bessbess Member Posts: 972
    All this discussion on surveys, sample sizes, valildity and other topics. They still do not indicate that Fords (or the Escape in particular) are 'unreliable'.
    It is only the Honda extremists (and Toyota extremists as well) that say this.

    I do see the statistics (JD power etc), and according to those, it does appear that Honda's in general have less problems per 100 vehicles than Ford's. But this evidence that 'Fords are unreliable'. Its only evidence (which may even be flawed) that Hondas statistically experience a few less problems.

    All the other evidence that Honda extremists point to in support that 'Fords are unreliable' have no basis in statistics, but instead are just a few individual opinions. An equal number or more opinions indicating Fords are reliable are out there as well.

    ----
    daveggh:
    I have just as many personal experiences (or those of friends/family) that show CR to very suspect in their numbers. A few years back CR rated 'twin' vehicles (I think it was the (taurus/sable or the contour/tempo) very differently when they were on the same manufacturing line.. how can this be?

    Also I've not heard anyone call Fords 'junk', and I've known folks who've had to have their Honda's in to get problems fixed.

    I've seen other reviews (even here by Edmunds experts), blast Ford for problems, but when their beloved Honda (minivan)was tested, they start by quoting 'Our long-term Odyssey certainly lived up to our expectations for Honda reliability'. And then they go on to describe 6 different problems they had to have fixed.
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Bess - CR rated the Escape 40% below the industry average for serious problems. I don't know what your definition of "unreliable" is, but that looks like a poor statistical rating to me.

    On the subject of opinions, it's not ours that matters. Ford management has admitted that they have had quality issues in recent years. I am willing to take them at their word on the subject.
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    bessbess Member Posts: 972
    So, Ford indicates that in recent years they felt that improvements could be made..
    Then why do Honda extremists say that Ford has a 'long history' of reliability problems?
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    All I have to say is, thank God Jacques Nasser is gone.
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    hondaman01hondaman01 Member Posts: 163
    http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_gm_better_ford_2/index.htm
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "Ford management has admitted that they have had quality issues in recent years."

    Ford never admitted it before. That doesn't mean the problem wasn't there.
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    diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I don't think any manufacturer would admit it!
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    daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    To all those who think Fords or Escapes are more reliable then Honda's or CRV's please show me ONE report. Just ONE report that says the former is more reliable then the later! I have yet to see one...
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    davegh,

    Would that be for long term reliability or for past reliability?


    These are pretty interesting.


    http://www.autosafety.org/autodefects/HONDA.htm


    http://www.autosafety.org/autodefects/MAZDA-truck.htm


    Just to be fair, the second one is for the Tribute because the Escape is not listed on their site. It and other Ford stuff on that site aren't pretty either. Also note that they do not single out the CR-V either. The Honda info is for all Honda models, or HMC if you will.

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    daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    Bess: You said the Taurus and the Sable are basically the same car off the same assembly line. Granted they are similar but there are differences. Take the 2000 Taurus and Sable: The Taurus has a front bench seat with a console shifter AND the Sable has bucket seats with a column mounted gearshift. These are the obvious differences between the two vehicles and the type of gearshift could make a huge difference in reliability. In addition there are probably more differences between the two vehicles then what I have mentioned, in any case these types of differences may be the reason why CR reports them as having different reliabilities.


    Baggs: those are interesting sites with some good information. Honda does have problems, but I don't think they come anywhere near Fords. Another great site for checking out recalls.


    http://www.autosite.com/library/nhtsa/recalls/recall.asp


    Look at a bunch comparisons between Ford and Honda, particularly the Escape and the CRV and you can see how many recalls each has had in addition to how bad they are.


    I took the liberty to check out the first year Escape versus the 1997 CRV. Escape has 4 recalls and the CRV has none. The 98 CRV had one recall.

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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    davegh,
    varmint has pointed out several times that the CR-V was out for a year or so in Japan before it was sold here in the US. We do not know what kind of problems, if any, that it had over there.

    If I lived in Japan and owned a 96 CR-V, I think I'd feel a little like a Guinea Pig.

    I noticed that the 2001 Civic had four recalls listed (some for specific trim levels). I never heard anything about that before. I sure heard about the Escape recalls though.

    When you make more, you have more problems.

    Could scape be right about some of this stuff that he's been repeating?
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    muckyduckmuckyduck Member Posts: 219
    Stalling is just a tad bit more serious than some trim problem. At least in the 'real' world!
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    I had to pause and wonder why you provided them when I read this, "The reliability of Mazda trucks and vans are more like Ford and not as good as other Japanese manufacturers like Toyota or Honda."

    That information is valuable to the owner who is having problems with the fleet of Hondas they have parked in their driveway, but I don't see anything that gives me concern regarding reliability. Do Honda's have problems? You betcha. Do Fords? You betcha. What does that prove?

    Baggs is correct regarding the CR-V's first year. It was a 1996 model before Honda brought it over here. The 2002 model is the only first year CR-V we've seen. Of course, it was recently ranked #2 on the last JD Powers Initial Quality Study, so I have little doubt it will be average or better. I see no reason to suspect that it will score 40% below the industry average.

    The only thing unique about the Escape recalls was the timing. Five or six recalls in the first few months of sales. I think that's a record. The lack of recalls since its release is a good sign, but the persistence of the stalling issue (despite an apparent fix) is not.
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    muckyduck,
    The latest recall for the older CR-V's addresses a stalling issue. The electrical cable they are replacing, when degraded over time, causes the vehicle to stall unexpectedly.

    And it only took them six years to figure that one out.

    varmint,
    I wasn't out to prove anything, I just thought the links were interesting in that they mirror some of what scape has been trying to tell us for some time (Honda tends to withhold info to project a better image).

    The 2002 CR-V is the first first year model we've seen, but they did have a pretty solid six year old design to work with. The Escape didn't even exist two years ago.
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    daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    I am trying to find the....

    "The latest recall for the older CR-V's addresses a stalling issue. The electrical cable they are replacing, when degraded over time, causes the vehicle to stall unexpectedly"

    I never heard of this one.... could you site it for me? The wire harness was replaced on the older models that is the recall I am aware of and it only effects blinkers and lights. BTW my 98 CRV harness wasn't damaged at all when they replaced it in 2001.
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    It's in the NHTSA's recall database. I only looked at the 99 CR-V but I think it affected other years' as well as other Honda models.

    Just because yours wasn't damaged doesn't mean that others' weren't too. I'm guessing that the problem showed up in vehicles with high mileage. I could be wrong though.

    It's under Honda Truck by the way, and it was just issued this year so I think we're talking about two different recalls. I think this one was actually for the ignition switch/harness. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Someone asked for one site that proved the Escape was as reliable as the CR-V and then you provided those links. I assumed there was a connection.

    "And it only took them six years to figure that one out."

    There could be many reasons why they didn't see this. The first that comes to mind is that the problem was very rare and affected few vehicles. It wasn't an obvious problem.

    An equally good question might be why Ford didn't find the Escape's problems before it was released? They were obvious enough that the sales staff were finding them as the Escapes arrived on the lots. Why didn't Ford's QC people find them?
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    baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    It's in the NHTSA's recall database. I only looked at the 99 CR-V but I think it affected other years' as well as other Honda models.

    Just because yours wasn't damaged doesn't mean that others' weren't too. I'm guessing that the problem showed up in vehicles with high mileage. I could be wrong though.

    It's under Honda Truck by the way, and it was just issued this year so I think we're talking about two different recalls. I think this one was actually for the ignition switch/harness. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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    daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    I am trying to find the....

    "The latest recall for the older CR-V's addresses a stalling issue. The electrical cable they are replacing, when degraded over time, causes the vehicle to stall unexpectedly"

    I never heard of this one.... could you site it for me? The wire harness was replaced on the older models that is the recall I am aware of and it only effects blinkers and lights. BTW my 98 CRV harness wasn't damaged at all when they replaced it in 2001.
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    There are two. One was to bundle loose wires that might rub together and short out. That was issued back in '99 or '00. The other is fairly recent and affects many Honda vehicles from a few years back. It deals with replacing ignition parts that may get carbonized after ~ 70K of use.
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