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Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII
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Comments
But even if I could have saved, I didn't want a Ranger. I've driven them, and I simply like the Tacoma better. I wanted what the TRD offered, and Ford STILL doesn't make anything comparable.
BTW- After owning TWO Tacomas, and now a Ranger, I'm much happier with my Ranger after two months of ownership than I was after two months of owning my new '99 Tacoma or my new '95 Tacoma. I only kept the '99 for eight months, it irritated me so much. Since I primarily drive on paved roads, the TRD package was a nuisance, NOT a blessing. I wanted the TRD for off-roading, but in my opinion, a TRD Tacoma is NOT a good paved-road truck.
Some things I really like about my Ranger that aren't even available on the Tacoma:
1) Four-spoke steering wheel, leather wrapped. I HATED that "one-spoke" Tacoma wheel. No place to hook my thumbs.
2) A clock I can see, that didn't cost extra.
3) Electric mirrors (only avail on Tacoma Limited).
4) The third and fourth doors.
5) Truly comfortable bucket seats (I heard Toyota finally improved theirs???).
6) An MP3 player (also plays CDs).
7) A five-speed automatic transmission.
8) A security system that didn't cost extra.
9) The no-cost bed liner.
Plain truth of it is I am a Toyota fans worst nightmare... A Ranger owner that uses his Ranger as a true 4x4, who paid thousands less, who has never had any problems with their Ranger..
I am living proof that is perceived quality/reliability advantage is just that... perceived.. Both of these trucks are capable, reliabile and quality built.. Both are good trucks..
-the last Taco I test drove had a 4 spoke wheel...
"Electric mirrors (only avail on Tacoma Limited)."
-not true, this is readily available on SR5's.
"An MP3 player (also plays CDs)."
-who cares, just go aftermarket.
"A security system that didn't cost extra.
The no-cost bed liner."
I'm pretty sure you still paid for it. -nothing is really free.
"The third and fourth doors."
-I couldn't agree more.
Toyota definitely made some changes since the '99 model year, so my arguments might be moot. And yes, the seats are a lot better now.
By the way, the Ranger is a good truck but at the same general quality level as the Tacoma....nobody believes in fairytales here.
Look right here at Edmunds and compare data of past Tacoma's and Rangers, also visit msn.com and thier reliability data shows you different. The Ranger is not as unreliable and of poor build quality as you want to believe in YOUR MIND. Like I said, I am a Toyota fans worst nightmare.. A Ranger owner with miles on his truck and NOT ONE PROBLEM.. paid thousands less, can go anywhere a Tacoma can, use my Ranger as a real 4x4 in the Cascade range and deserts of Eastern Oregon....
You just go on believing what you want and justifying the extra 2-3K most Tacoma owners spent for that preceived reliability/quality advantage..
By the way.. Whats up with this Toyota sludge/engine issue??
Indeed, I know nothing is really free, but the liner, security system and all the other stuff were part of the $19.4K I paid for the Ranger, not something "added-on" by the dealer after the sale (a typical Toyota trick) for extra money. Sure, you can go after-market for ANYTHING. I spent over $3000 on things for my Tacoma that it didn't come with (total Tacoma investment of over $25K). The point is that I don't feel I NEED or WANT to spend additional monies on the Ranger, except for the better tires I already purchased. To each his own.
Again, in my opinion, the new "toothy" grille on the newer Tacomas is a major turn-off. It reminds me too much of John Elway (check it out), and I'm not a Broncos fan. That being said, I believe it was Scorpio who posted pics of his late model Tacoma in all-over silver that actually looked pretty good. Best Tacoma I've ever seen, and I have yet to see any similar monochrome Tacomas around Denver.
And not to stir up trouble, but your truck with an LSD can not go ANYWHERE a locked truck of any kind can. Maybe anywhere in the area you wheel. But, again, lift a tire and tell me what happens. I couldn't resist. Other than that, I am very happy you have had good luck with your truck. I think most people know that Rangers have good build quality, I do. However, Tacomas also have a great reputation in the same arena. That's one reason why this debate keeps going, both trucks are good.
What about styling and performance? IMHO, the Ranger is ugly and is always the underdog in any performance comparo with the Tacoma. I hate the fact that Rangers don't have headrests - I'm tall and want a headrest in case I get rear-ended. I think it's a joke that on every Ford truck, the shock absorber/bracket hangs well below the rear axle, vulnerable to damage. I think the Ranger's styling is juvenile, with that hood buldge and cheesy plastic molding on top of the bed rails...etc.
You should be comparing FX4s to non-TRD Tacomas, as they're similarly equipped and the price difference will probably be negligible. How can you compare any of the Ford Rangers to the TRD and say the Ranger is cheaper when Ford makes nothing like the TRD?
As for the alleged sludge problem, all I know is that it doesn't affect any Tacoma engine so I haven't bothered to research the issue.
1. The "bulgy" hood is only available on the Edge. I think it looks like a cowl induction hood, and at 1" or less, it hardly bulges.
2. The ranger head rests go to about 8 inches below the roof.
3. Shock absorbers, not this old argument. How about the door locks you don't like either? Like how they unlock automatically when you open the inside door handle, or how they are hidden from view when locked(what a good visual indicator). Back to your qualm, the shock absorber isn't the lowest place, the lower edge on the rear differential is. So if you are driving so your shock absorbers are in danger, so is your general rear differential pumpkin.
Don't believe me? See below...
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Gallery/Ford/Ranger/5.asp
http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Gallery/Ford/Ranger/Ext0.asp
pluto- how many times do i have to tell you- the FX4 is just a regular off-road ranger with some BFG tires, a front susp. skidplate, a torsen lsd, the bilstein shocks, and a rear towhook. and fyi, those "cheesy platic moldings" on the bed rail top is protection for the bed rails when you *read* WORK YOUR TRUCK. we understand why you wouldn't like these, since toyota wouldn't ever include something like these in the standard price. as far as the appearance, both trucks are cool (not the old design like you have, just '01 tacos and newer) but the ranger has it all over the toy in looks. it has a way cooler front end, along with better lights and towhooks. i sense a little jealousy with the aging of your truck.
the FX4 is basically the truck i had sans the torsen rear lsd and bilstein shocks. i bought the FX4 front skidplate and 31 BFG's. all other susp. components are identical. yeah, its sad ford doesn't equip their regular off-road pkgd. trucks with better tires, but one can buy very good tires and still have a lot of cash left over compared to a tacoma price.
sad- if its the customer's faults that their crappy toyota engines were locking up on them, why is toyota footing the bill? you need to do some more in-depth research. you'll find that these engines were engineered to such standards that they inadvertently built these engines to do this. they screwed up on the design.
and also, why do you say that a lsd cannot go where a locked rear can go? you do understand that on a lsd when one wheel spins, the other one locks in? when your locked rear has one wheel off the ground, you have only one wheel powering you. what's the difference? ill tell you. the lsd is automatic, the locker you have to engage. both will get the job done off-road. its just a matter of opinion and what particular area off-road you're talking about. if you're climbing steep hills, the locker will probably be the sure bet. but for slow trail crawling, the lsd will be just as good- cuz at some point or another, the locked axle will only have one wheel powering it just like a lsd has when it has one wheel up and the other one locks in.
I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't measure my headrest from the stupid roof. If it doesn't go up the back of my head, it's worthless. End of story.
Shock absorbers - the less you have hanging exposed, the less there is to damage. PERIOD.
And the Ford's disappearing lock knobs is a farce. They pinched pennies by cutting an inch off the stupid knob. You should be able to unlock a door by not having to physically open it from the inside or fumbling with keys.
I would venture to say I've put in far more miles on Fords than you have in Toyotas. Actually, I've put in more miles in Fords than Toyotas. No way, no how will you convince me Ford makes the superior product.
Jealousy??? I personally think the 1998 Tacomas were the best looking. To be honest, I don't like the new Tacoma grills or how many Tacomas have that molding running down the sides. Mine's just pure white with no funky grill or side molding. Everyday I'm asked what my truck payment is and I tell them "paid for, it's a '98." They can't believe it, because it looks brand new. And with just over 50K miles, I think it's just getting broken in...if you want to see EXACTLY what my truck looks like, go here http://www.pimpdaddy.com/garage/1998-toyota-tacoma/other.html
Only difference is my truck doesn't have the bug guard and has BFGs.
Nah, I don't have a case of truck envy, tbundy. In fact, my next vehicle will be some kind of sports coupe. But the Tacoma will stay. What do you think of the new 350Z or BMW 325 coupe?
If it's Firestones' fault for making crappy [non-permissible content removed] tires that kill people, why is Ford footing the bill?
rick5: Personally, I despise the "And it comes standard with the truck, so you don't have to pay a dime!" tactic that any dealer will use. Why do I want a plastic liner when I know that I'm going to use Herculiner or Line-X/Rhino to spray the bed? Just like you, I don't feel a need to spend additional money on my Tacoma (yes, the pics were mine), but I'm going to. Good spray liner, different tires (ones I have work fine, but I want more aggressive tires). It's a pain in a butt to sell off the parts later. It seems to me that Fords' approach is "Big Brother (in this case Ford) knows best what people need, and that is why our trucks come with wide range of conviniences that many soccer moms find attractive". Thanks, but no thanks. I like the choice not to buy what 1 million baseball dads and soccer moms thought would be great in a truck (these are the same people who are driving SUV industry to [non-permissible content removed]).
You obviously have never wheeled with a locker. I understand you are just trying to add to the debate, but there is really no sense in arguing over this proven fact anymore. It is so stupid. LSD= better on wet roads and slippery conditions. Locker= better in extreme (read off-road) conditions with next to no traction. With all due respect, what do you not understand? I would be more than happy to keep on explaining because it might be something others want to learn about, too. I'll say it again: A locker is th only appropriate axle setup on a truck that has a sticker that says "off-road" on the quarter panel. LSD's are the best all-around setup, thats why they come on Rangers, minivans, and sports cars alike.
And by the way, the locker is just as automatic as picking your nose. Push the button and it engages either then or as soon as slippage occurs, no matter what.
plut--->It is not a matter of me giving up. It is a manner of two opinions in disagreement. Do not plan on winning any argument if both sides are fairly well set in their ways.
Even thought the fake brake vents are annoying to you, they are 1. Styling ques to the early mustangs, and 2. Quite easily made functional with aftermarket kits.
"Shock absorbers - the less you have hanging exposed, the less there is to damage. PERIOD."
I'll remember that on my commute to work. Better watch out for those potholes! Exclaimation point!
"They pinched pennies by cutting an inch off the stupid knob. You should be able to unlock a door by not having to physically open it from the inside or fumbling with keys."
Why do you want to unlock the door, and not open it if you are on the inside?
If you are on the outside, just click the remote unlock button. You're gonna be needing the keys if you plan on starting the car anyways.
Besides it's a security issue to. If you crack your windows to allow the cab to not heat up during the summer day, then what is to stop someone with a coat hanger to open them? Nevermind, you are right, it is just a conspiracy by Ford to save 20 cents per vehicle.
Finally, put the same miles in a Ford as you have in a Toyota and then compare. How come for someone who always berates Ford, you put more miles on them?
Scorpio--->You would think it would not take 2 university degrees to venture a question without researching it first. Ford vs Firestone.
Is it just me, or does this forum repeat the same stuff about every 6 months.
Question 1)If Firestone did exactly what they were told to do, why is the plant that produced the in question tires no longer in operation?
2) If Firestone provided tires matching quality and performance specifications as Ford requested, then how come Goodyear has only 2 tire separation incidents, vs the 1183 Firestone incidents?
Ford is footing the bill, because Firestone was dragging their feet, placing blame on the Explorer, not their Decatur plant tires. All the while the chances for more Ford owners to get in tread separation accidents and injury increased.
Ford fixed the problem, gave everybody new tires by Goodyear, and no more issues. If there were still problems, wouldn't the media have jumped on this by now?
Anybody else who still believes Ford is to fault for Firestone tires, is nothing more than sheep following the media shepard. Automatons.
he proved me wrong, i wasn't thinking of plain xl's.
he proved pluto wrong, who really needs to unlock the door without opening it, and who wants something sticking up that some punk can just grab on to with a coat hanger and rip off your stuff?
and who really needs clearance higher than your punkin on the rear axle?
and yes, he always has his facts straight. his firestone explanation is spot on. and i also noticed that no one is debating the toyota thing. fact is, there is nothing to debate. toyota screwed up on the design of the engine.
and scorp, this is from me. yes, the FX4 pkg. on ranger is more hardcore than f150. and yes, it basically boils down to the shocks and tires between the regular off-road pkg. and the FX4 pkg. the FX4 has one additional skidplate up front, and yes i forgot, it has modified air intake to help it be more waterproof. but the big things are the shocks and tires- assuming you have a lsd from ford.
sad- you need to do some research on the torsen and ford lsd. they are engineered for one wheel in the air "traction"- straight from a torsen engineer. why do you think all the power would be transferred to the wheel up in the air when wheeling and getting off-centered? a lsd distributes power to the wheel that has the most traction. one wheel slips, the other one is locked in. this would be the one that is still on the ground. but if you read my post, you'll see that i do not say the lsd is best, i say that is the best on certain terrains. depends what you're doing. climbing hills, or just cruising trails. but ive never been stuck with any lsd.
Here is why this doesn't make sense. Sure, when one wheel is in the air, some torque is sent to the grounded wheel, but not enough to actually move the vehicle using the one tire. If the torsen is really a locker, then I rest my case, but that would be the ONLY way that it would actually work with one wheel in the air. Plain and simple.
I'll see you in the nastiest, mudiest places on earth.........Steelman.
Firestone is responsible for supplying crappy tires, Ford is responsible for putting them on, AND dragging their feet in fixing the problem...remember the "recommended tire pressure" TSB?
And yes, this forum does repeat itself.
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11883
NHTSA Denies Firestone Request For Ford Explorer Investigation
www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/pressdisplay.cfm?year=2002&filename=pr11-02.html
Analysis on Explorer and Firestone statistics:
http://media.ford.com/events/Firestone_charts_August24.PPT
Scroll through first 10 or so slides, if they bore you.
Anyways Scorpio, how would you as a company, test for tire failure after 3, 4 or 5+ years of use and possible under maintenance?
This is how it works. Ford puts an order into Firestone for a shipment of tires. Firestone says ok, we'll get right on it, and have all of their plants produce more of the reuqested type of tires. Ford gets them, installs them, and 4 or 5 years later 1,100 out of 4 million+ Explorers have accidents involving tire tread separation. Not a huge number, definitely involving old tires that have probably never seen a air gauge except by the dealership.
At least Ford has systematically replaced all tires that are in question, therefor reducing the risk of future occurances to zero. Show me where Ford dragged their feet? A 2 billion (or similair amount) cost to replace all the tires isn't something you would JUMP into as a corporation is it? Don't think this is where they started fixing the problem. Remember they only were chaning a few tires at first? Then they went ahead and took pretty much all Firestones off? Once it became known that the Firestone decatur tires were signifigantly below status quo, they were all replaced.
And what does Toyota do to owners with sludge in their oil? I'm sure Firestone is swearing their tires are good, as long as properly maintained. Ford could have done the same, but they didn't.
End of story, all information retained from government and company releases, and NOT the local TV NEWS.
Don't you ever recall getting into somebody else's vehicle with the window rolled down and simply unlocking it and getting in?
As for headrests - they should be required by law for safety's sake. Just about everybody has headrests now - except cheapo penny-pinching Ford.
Since you asked, I put on more miles on Fords than Toyota because of my work. That's why I'm familiar with all the irritating details, like the lock knobs. Or the gas pedal that's too high off the floor and the tip of your foot slips off it, going under it. Or how the 5.4 engines "tick" loudly. Heck, even discovering lug nuts that loosen on their own. What a crock.
I'm not going to bring up the bad design on the rear shock absorbers again and how they're vulnerable to damage. By your own admission, you don't four-wheel much so I guess you wouldn't care. But others do care. In fact, in the wish-list for pickups thread, others brought this point up as well.
And it's still a joke that Ford's premier off-roader, the FX4, comes with an MP3 player instead of a locker. HA!
BTW, I don't remember you thanking me for straightening you out on that whole central, pacific and eastern time confusion of yours. Don't worry, you're welcome.
Doors locks. I guess that's why Ford charges $405 ($344 invoice) for Power mirrors and windows, power door locks, remote keyless entry.
While Toyota sells Power windows and door locks, cloth door trim, glovebox light for $525 ($420 invoice) or in the xtra cab $565 (452 invoice). Adding power mirrors to the above can cost as much as $825 ($660 invoice) on a double cab, or $695 ($556 invoice) on an Extra cab. Even with the $825 dollar option, there is still no mention of remote keyless entry.
I can understand why you don't have power equipment, it can cost twice as much in a Toyota. I also wonder why does it cost 130 dollars extra for power windows in a crew cab versus a 4WD Xtra cab?
So if you do not have power locks, how do you expect to raise and lower the passenger window, with it's manual operation? (By reaching way over) One thing you can do with the Ford doors, is to open the inside handle just enough to open the lock, but not open the door. Your example is only valid if the window is down in the first place, and if that is the case, the would be passenger can easily use the inside door handle to get the job done.
I find it very amusing you state that Ford is trying to weazle out of paying .10 cents for a longer door lock knob, while Toyota charges up to twice the amount to install (fewer) power options.
But nevermind that logic, Ford has nothing but conspiracies to save money in your eyes.
Headrests--->IIHS.ORG rates Tacoma's headrest "Poor". Ranger receives a Poor & a Marginal rating depending on seat. So at least with Ranger you get a choice, and IIHS can not rate a headrest which you say does not exist...
And yes, I do not off-road. I will drive a dirt or old fire road here and there, but I don't cross open fields for no good reason.
And every person is entitled to mistakes, even a small miscalculation of time zones. I live and learn by my mistakes. But whom can best be judged by the act of bringing up past mistakes over and over again?
Headrests again...I'm 6'3" and in my truck, the headrest goes all the way up the back of my head. In the Ford, it does not.
You are a real slickster, you know that? Headrests are vital in rear-end collisions. Your IIHS information on seats and restraints is based on the frontal off-set collision test, NOT rear-end collisions. Rear-enders are one of the most common types of accidents, and I wouldn't want to be in a cheapo ford and have my neck/head wrap backwords around those stupid surfboard seats with no headrest. Case closed.
Speaking of safety - I wonder what EMS/firemen would have to say about pulling people from crushed/burning Fords and the only way to unlock and open the doors is from the inside...
Another thing, wouldnt the shock hangers being below the axle be a mute point seeing that the lowest point of the truck (using Toyotas ground clearance rules) is the transfer case some 13" up?
your little lock thingy is ludicrous. for someone who works for the gov't., id expect at least expect a more intelligent debate than one that means nothing. your debate on this issue doesn't even exist. and if your cruising around with your windows down and picking someone up and the door is locked-this means two things: one, you reached across and rolled the window down with the crank (can you say a pain?) and two, you once reached across and locked the door since you have no power locks. so in essence, the ranger doesn't make you stretch at all, its all power standard bud.
and just another tidbit, what if while you are at an event, some dooda bumps your mirrors and you get in and don't realize it until you're out in traffic. you don't have power mirrors. what you gonna do? say to your friend- (if you're not alone and just screwed like im sure you've been once or twice with no power mirrors) a little to the left, down now, to the right? power mirrors standard on ranger xlt.
and talking about safety in your truck, this is the one that (1998) got a one star rating right? how can you be worried about head restraints when you may not have a pelvis if you get hit from the side? and oh yeah, there is a limit to how far the seatback can go up. if it goes up too much, the driver can't see around it. both toyota and ford's seatbacks are the same heights. go measure if you don't believe. your claims are simply false.
and ive had three rangers, off-roaded all of them, and never scraped my shocks. don't you understand that if its mounted higher than the bottom of the pumpkin, it won't drag? the ranger's shock mounts are up higher than the punkin. what about the tacoma t/c that uses itself as the mount for the cheap skidplate that is supposed to protect it? what if you bottom on it over a rock? think the t/c is gonna support itself? that design is hilarious, and you bellyache about shock mounts. the same type of mounting that basically every other truck manufacturer uses, even jeep.
just one more question- if you're so tall, why does your foot slip off the accelerator so easily? im 5'7, and ive never had any problems. its simply as easy as adjusting your seat. but of course now, ford offers power pedals (something toyota never will) and if you have them you wouldn't have that problem. they are offered on expeditions, so your employment could get them. and the lug nuts- its your darn fault you didn't get them replaced. ford will fix them for free, but you just keep complaining about them. that's your problem. you think those toyota owners that have locked up motors are just gonna let them sit and make payments on a piece of crap car that they can't even drive? no. toyota says they'll finally fix them all and so the drivers will take them in for the repairs. that is what people do when they have a recall. they take their vehicles in. of course, the ranger had only one recall last year, and it only applied to some rangers. another thing, id rather hear some ticking (you claim) than nothing at all which is what those camry owners and every other owner of the locked up engines.
steelman- you're living in fantasyland yourself. the 2001 ranger i had would have buried your tacoma any day any place. end of discussion. there wouldn't have even been any competition. of course i had better tires than stock, but that's cheating right? toyota quality- locked up engines, spot weld marks all over the rear cab, smaller and weaker components, and doors that are a micro thick. let's not forget that even the steering wheel is optional. LOL
stang's still got your number.
I want a "full size 4X4" without the shock and park brake line above the bottom of the rear axle.
I'll see you at my favorite fishing hole that is smack dab in the middle of nowhere......Steelman.
"tonyy" doesn't want shocks and brake lines underneath the rear axle.
"Your IIHS information on seats and restraints is based on the frontal off-set collision test, NOT rear-end collisions. Rear-enders are one of the most common types of accidents, "
Is this not the one test you bring up time after time when discussing Tundra's and other full size trucks? You constantly berate the F-150's results of IIHS vs the Tundra. Now I guess it doesn't mean much, because you believe "rear end collisions are the most common".
But the fact of the matter is, that unless everyone is now driving at highway speeds, BACKWARDS into each other, one car or another has to hit other with the front of their car.
Are you sure Ranger's don't have head rests?
http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCAP/Cars/1978.html
(Also notice the 5 star side impact rating vs Tacoma's 3 stars).
Still complaining about the lock knobs? Go to autozone or (insert local auto parts store here) and buy a pair of nice long knobs for around $1.19. ($1.99 if you get the dice or eight ball style). There is your case closed. I would not buy or not buy a vehicle because of a 2 dollar part.
"The only thing I have to say is that I think (know?) the Tacoma is better and the concensus in the automotive community is that it's better. The only people corroborating with you, tbunder, is your fellow Ford fans."
Is that statement supported by the loyalty factor or continued sales leadership shown by Ford in the Truck (and SUV) categories?
"Everyone knows that a Tacoma is better than a Ranger. Let the Ford fanatics say what they like, it simply makes them feel better about what they are driving. The rest of us know the truth. Yotas Rule!"
I love statements that are just as valid as the exact opposite of what they are trying to say.
The Ranger with its new 4.0 will plain out pull out haul out power the TAcoma. Toyota fans hate to talk about HP/Torque curves.. because they don't know what the heck that means.. REAL truck owners know, that is why they buy Rangers....
lasting and cheaper ?
Why don't the goverment buy them?
pluto, i respect your opinion, but the article you keep quoting from is now very old. tell the military and most trail/rock guys that your trd is superior. you'll probably end up with a hummer over your bed, or a jeep will drag you somewhere and leave you.
to be honest with you, i haven't seen a comparo of compact trucks, all off-road equipped for at least four years. id love to see the fx4, trd, zr2, nissan all face off. all manual trannys, all top of the line off-road pkgd. but living in the present, the best your trd tacoma could muster in the latest pickup of the year contest was a third place showing. and yes, im sure you'll come back and say "where was the ranger?" well, when the ranger introduces a crew-cab im sure it will get all kinds of press and be introduced to these shootouts again. until then, it is probably a safe bet to assume that it is quite content outselling all but three other trucks in this good old USA.
hey scorpio, what happened to the tacoma? its sales is negative and sliding. and the f150 is up. so much for your theory on ford truck sales declining throughout the year. yes, the ranger is down too, but your tacoma is down period. and the ranger is still 26000 units ahead of it. and just as i suspected, the s10 has has surpassed the tacoma. the tacoma was ahead of it for a while. maybe more are just buying full-size, but sales are down for your brand.
finally, pluto- if the general concensus in the automotive community is that the toyota tacoma is the better truck, i ask again, why doesn't it outsell all others? its a simple question and so far no one can answer it because last time i checked, the ranger was still the #1 selling compact. that tells me that the general concensus in the automotive world is that the ranger is the truck people want, not tacoma.
oh yeah- screw BMW's, they are terrible in reliability and everyone has them these days. for a guy who seems to have all the answers, i find it cool that you ask my opinion. well, here it is. beemers are underpowered, at least the ones you are talking about. and it seems now that everyone has them. if i were to buy a 30K car, it would be a no brainer. lexus IS300 all the way. that car rules and is beautiful. and the lexus is rated #1 all the time. id buy one in a heartbeat. yes, i know they're toyota. but they are put together by robots. ever read the book, "the lexus and the olive tree?" i cant remember the author (jonathan someone), but he talks up lexus, he toured the plant and i guess they're built like clockwork.
i also like the acura type-s cars. very classy. and that new infiniti is sweet. id stay away from european cars unless you can buy an M3 or something. the beemers are sweet cars and handle like a dream so ive read. but the lexus is just that- a lexus.
but hey, id be happy with a new civic Si. that car is way cool.
Believe it or not, I appreciate your opinion on the bimmer. I've kind of come to the same conclusion myself. It's just that if I went with the 350Z, I would be getting a V6 engine instead of a straight six (BMW). And let's face it, the only reason Nissan went with the V6 is to save money and use an existing engine for this car. IMHO, the V6 is a very inferior design. It's a compromise for space considerations. It's compact, but is not naturally balanced and therefore requires power-robbing counterbalances. It is also very prone to longitudinal vibration and not nearly as smooth as a good straight six. With that 350Z's long nose, there's no reason a straight six wouldn't fit - Nissan just didn't want to develop the engine that would suit this car (original Zs did have a straight six, by the way). And my past experiences with Nissan have been very disappointing - they always boast about the hp their cars have, but the driving experience is always disappointing. So if I want a good engine in a rear wheel drive sports car that I can afford, my only choices are the bimmer and the IS300 (which also has a good straight six). I'm sure the IS300 will be a more reliable car, but I'm not so sure it will deliver the driving satisfaction of the bimmer. BMWs are hard to beat in that regard - on paper, sometimes they're not that impressive but they have intangible qualities that make them very enjoyable to drive. I'll keep you posted on which one I end up buying, which should be before the end of summer.
Tbunder, please, let's be realistic. I suppose your next post will be that the Ford Focus is a much more reliable vehicle that an BMW. Your reason will probably be just because it sells more units (LOL)! You Ford fans really know how to make somebody laugh.
Take care........Steelman.
And if you re-read it, the Jeep did very well on the slow trails, but the Tacoma did better on the high speed trails. (Product of wheelbase?) If they both turned out with the exact same trail score, that should tell you something.
Why wasn't the Ranger a contender? Why was the Tacoma TRD nominated as the compact pick-up competitor in this comparo? Because the people who conducted the test know the TRD is the most capable compact available!
tbunder: care to post a link with sales results? We've all learned not to trust whatever you just say (600lbs heavier!)
stang: It hang on with a jeep and "barely won"? Ohh, that's a good one. You are making Tacoma look real good there.
automatic trans BMW.
Guess who makes it for them ?
YUP....General Motors....
BTW: Does Rolls Royce still
use gm trannies and gm Air condition
parts ?
http://65.112.188.100/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20020501b
I like the caption, Toyota's best ever April sales for 6 years running.
The only toyota vehicles that showed an improvement over last year was the Camry, Prius, Highlander and Tundra. Without Lexus, Toyota would be showing a mediocre improvement.
Notice the slight drop in 4x2 Tacoma (1-2%) and the larger drop in 4X4 Tacoma's (6-7%)
I also said it barely won because on the point system they used, the Tacoma only leads by 2% (356.79 vs 344.29). Especially considering how they rated the Tacoma good for the high speed (desert running?) trails, and the Jeep for the low speed trails (rock crawling?). Ever been in a jeep at high speed anything? Which type of off-roading is better for the locker anyways?
Who knows why the Ranger wasn't in the competition? Maybe in pure stock form (in 1998) the reviewers didn't want to try. What off-roader worth his salt, goes off in brand new warrantied trucks? Try explaining to the dealership the reason your transfer case has failed is not the smashed skid plate attached to it.
I would say the Tacoma is a well rounded vehicle, but not the (God's gift of the) Ultimate 4x4. I think Eagle said it best just above.
I also would say that while I have little to no experience off-road in my ole 4x2 Ranger, it has done very well on the few ventures onto the beach, or up and down muddy wet dirt road in the Ozark Mountains. If I want the biggest and best off-roader, I wouldn't buy a 20,000+ dollar truck. I would spend about 5-6 grand on my current ride, and would probably end up with a much better performer all-together.
Still how many people buy trucks only because of their off-road ability? We all know that the vast majority of consumers are never gonna leave the pavement.
And Pluto, you haven't gone camping until you actually lose site of the vehicle that brought you there.
As for ultimate offroad: I never said that TRD was the ultimate offroader. My view is that it's a good start, good base offroad model, that you can build up on. Why Ranger wasn't in it? Maybe it wasn't even worth trying to put it in a competition against the big boys. For a company that is so concerned with targetting their customer base (Ford...with their FX4 and Tremor), you'd think they would try to show off how good their Ranger is....but no.
The good place to use GPS that I found was out in sea, where there's total lack of stationary markers. Out on land it's nearly useless piece of junk.