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Comments
I think it comes in silver also!
Same with the Jetta sedans.
But my wife says she's seen lots of silver ones too....
Whatever color you chose, I wish you the best with your new TDI wagon!.
My first color choice obviously would have been white. For almost all the reasons/ disadvantages I stated for the dark colors, the white color goes in the opposite direction! One other issue that I did not mention is that white is app 8-12 times more visible than a darker car. (not in a white snow storm of course)
110 mph going up a mountain was around 3800 rpms.
at 75 mph (to 80) on my 5-speed it does about 2800 rpms.
I am guessing that 110 mph @ 3800 rpm will post app 42-43 mpg. I know that 100 mph at slightly less rpm will post app 43-46 mpg and that is with 3 folks and app 200#s of luggage and the AC at full tilt.
I currently drive an Acura 1.6EL (Canadian 4-door Civic Si), which is 6 years old and still runs like it was new. I am now accustomed to that level of reliability. The downside of the 1.6l Honda engine is that you get great fuel economy up to 55mph or in the city if you keep the revs in the 2500 rpm range. Above either and mileage drops like a stone. Drive it with any degree of enthusiasm, and you are quickly into the high 20s of mpg (US figures) at best.
I have read through much of this board, but I still have a few questions should anyone have an opinion to offer:
1) How does the diesel handle life in the cold, and by extension, how is the Jetta in the slush/snow of a Toronto winter? How long does it take to truly warm up (e.g. 10 minutes of driving? more?)
2) How realistic is highway and city performance with the TDI? I am referring to driving performance rather than mileage. Can you merge with confidence on a highway, or do you try to tuck in behind a semi and hope he doesn't pull away from you before you can get up to 60mph?
3) How will a TDI (wagon or sedan) compare to a Honda product in terms of quality, reliability, and unplanned visits to the dealer for service?
Thanks.
Could you wait for the Passat Diesel, or are you looking for a used car? Or are you in one of the states that may not get the next Diesel vehicles?
My second car is a '94 Golf, and at times I am in the back seat, at 5'11'. It's OK for an hour or so. I can stay there as long as in any other car if the person in front of me is smallish (<5'4") and the seat is not all the way back. It is definitely tight with three in the back, for anything longer than 1/2 hour to 1 hour.
- D.
Cold life: Using good diesel and (I recommend) a diesel treatment during the winter will ensure easy starts. It's easier to get bad diesel so it's important to find quality fuel. 99% of winter starting problems from a TDI are from a bad batch of fuel. It's not THAT common, but can happen. I've never had an issue, but I always buy fuel at stations that pump a lot of fuel, and I use Stanadyne treatment in the winter. A premium diesel (if you can find it) like BP Supreme will make a TDI run extremely smooth and quiet and will likely never smoke on start-up. I run that exclusively now that I found a supplier.
As for heat: It does take at least five minutes of driving before you start getting heat. Idling doesn't help too much either, you really need to drive it. Within 10 minutes you should be toasty. Two things to help this issue are seat heaters and a coolant heater. You can add an electric heater quite easily and plug it in. Put it on a timer to come on a couple hours before you leave and you'll have instant heat. It's an issue with diesels, they run so efficiently they don't throw off a lot of heat like a gas engine.
Reliability: Well I really doubt it's going to be as trouble free as a Honda. Quality wise, I don't see a big difference. My Jetta was put together very nicely, feels fairly solid, excellent fit/finish, etc. Keep in mine we're talking economy cars here and compared to my Audi it's junk but so is any other economy car. I've had very few problems with my TDI, but I'm not one to run to a dealer every time I hear a little noise. Most german cars are quirky at best. It all depends on how involved you want to get with the car. I can do most any repair/maintenance myself so little things here and there aren't a big issue. I'm coming up on 70k miles and beyond the power window regulator issues, I've had no problems. Got some squeaks and rattles at times but overall it just flys down the highway and gets mid 40's running speeds well in excess of the limit. If reliability and zero problems are at the top of your shopping list, find yourself a 35mpg gasser like a Corolla. The performance, driving, and substantial feel will be lost but you'll probably have an extremely reliable appliance. Although my last two Toyotas have been more troublesome than any vehicles I've ever owned.
Snow driving: IMHO it sucks, but I live out in the boonies and the roads don't get plowed. The Jetta stays in the garage when snow is coming. Most people say they go great in the snow, and that may be the case in areas that have fairly well maintained roads. Between the steep hills and lack of road care, I don't deal well with cars in the snow. The Jetta sits rather low as well which doesn't help in my case. I'll let someone that drives in more of a situation like yours comment more.
Unless one of the front seats is moved all the way forward, I have no desire to sit in the back seat of a Jetta for any amount of time. It's a kids back seat IMHO. Even a car seat is a tight fit. If I regularly hauled around people, this wouldn't be my car.
Although here in southern BC it doesn't snow frequently the car has performed flawlessly on snowy roads, as long as the snow is no more than 4 or five inches deep.
The difference in ride quality between a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic and a Jetta has to be experienced. Test drive the Jetta and any of the Japaneses compact cars on the same day and I'll bet that you would prefer the Jetta over all others.
In a accident I would rather be in the VW and not one of the Japanese cars.
Of course there is quite a price advantage for the Japanese.
If ride quality is your priority, buy the Jetta.
If economy is the foremost goal, buy a Toyota Echo. I know, it's ugly and quirky but you get used to it. It has the same interior volume as a Jetta and gets up to 45MPG. My 64k miles average with an automatic is 42MPG and there have been no repairs whatsoever. Just fluid and filter changes as with any other car.
My research has told me that the ESP option is perhaps the VERY BEST OPTION ONE CAN CHOOSE because it gives so much for such a small expense.
http://www.bosch.de/k/en/esp/index_flash.htm
Not only do you get EDL (Electronic Differential Lock) but you also get the skid-control. Most folks that have driven an ESP-equipped car in the snow report that it is almost impossible to force the vehicle into a skid.
For the Record, I traded a 4X4 Honda Cvic for the Jetta TDI with ESP. But have not had the opertunity to drive in the snow yet. So I ahve no actual experience with it yet.
Like any car, AWD or not...the key is good snow tires.
It's worded as cumulative miles
I appreciate the advice, espcially regarding economy and the Toyota Echo. I like to drive, however, and I like the throw cars into corners. I have yet to see an Echo driven by anyone with less than kid gloves. So, no, there will be no Echo in my future. Also, why would they put the speedometer in the middle of the dash?
I did stop by at a VW dealer and sit in a Jetta wagon last week. The leather seats felt as "stiff as Krupp's steel". Do they loosen up a bit over time? Normally I like a stiff seat, but these felt like iron. Is the cloth a better choice? (There were no cloth seats in the showroom). I have read previous posts suggesting leather if you have a family (I do) but we also have a strict "no food in the car" rule. Since I have no desire to eat and drive, I figured this could be my one "line in the sand" that I could actually win. So far, it's working. :-) That being said, is VW cloth (veleur?) viable over 7+ years, or leather still the better choice?
And as to snow, I should have prefaced that question with snow tires included. I am a firm believer in the right tire for the right season. It amazes me that people will spend US$40K++ on a car, then not bother with another $500 for proper winter rubber, yet complain that the car handles terribly in the snow. Snows are for helpful at getting you out of the snow covered parking lot, but they are mainly for stopping on snowy or slippery roads.
And that brings me to my last question: brakes. How are the VW's brakes over the long term? Do they stop well? Even with proper changes of brake pads (or whatever), do they fade over time (by that I mean months/years, not repeated stops on the same trip)? Again, I am coming from a 2600lb. car with excellent brakes, but also with much less weight to stop.
Thanks again.
I purchased a 2003 Golf TDI GLS and have had only one problem: After filling up the tank (14.5 Gallons), I drive about 400 miles (mostly city, some highway) then the tank is near empty. That is only 27 mpg! The ratings say I should be getting 42 mpg. I figured that I must be doing something wrong and maybe you pros can help me out.
Before you start saying how much of an idiot I am, hear me out. I had just learned how to drive a manual transmission the day before I bought the vehicle. The VW salesman actually gave me some pointers. Well anyway, some of my friends say shifting early saves gas, while others say shifting around 3,000 RPM is more fuel efficient. I know ok, I'm an idiot. Why don't I just ask a professional? The answer is I don't want to look like an idiot, I would much rather sound like an idiot. So lately I have been shifting at 2,000 RPM but still no luck. Am I doing something wrong or do you think it might be the car? Could it be any other factor that is giving me such poor mileage? Thank you very much for reading the very annoying post of mine. I only hope someone did not ask this before, then I would look like an even bigger fool. Thanks agagin.
Mr TDI, I would say that there shouldnt be anything you could possibly be doing wrong to get gas mileage that bad, you should be able to redline it in every gear and do better than that. I would say there is definitely something wrong with the car, you should bring it to be serviced immediately. The car is not performing as should, and thus they have to fix it under warranty.
You will get better gas mileage by shifting lower, but you don't want to always drive it like a granny either, because that may lead to your intake clogging up over time. Its good for the engine to get a workout on a semi-regular basis.
Now the Glow Plug light doesn't turn on at all when I start the ignition. Could that be the problem? I don't know....I guess I'm just having a bad experience with my car. I was hit by a very stupid lady in a parking lot (a parking lot with two cars in it, mine and hers). My windshield cracked as well. Hey, doesn't the California "lemon" law say if your car is has 3 major repairs on it within the first year, you are entitled to a brand new one? I read that on the envelope my License plate came in. Well thanks for reading again.
Oh the chip that mods TDI's sounds excellent, my cars so messed up how can one little chip mess it up anymore? Also, I guess I am lucky because I got my first oil change for only $65 instead of $70! Lucky me! (LOTS of sarcasm.)
I just turned 67k miles this week and I have factory pads all around. Stops darn fast. Shocks are shot though. Other than that, fairly trouble-free cruising.
Most lemon-laws talk about 3 failures OF THE SAME KIND in some prescribed timeframe. I guess this means that they get 3 tries to fix a problem.
I do not mean to 'brag' but My wifes new TDI got 43MPG on the 1st tank and has been getting over 52MPG on the last 4 tanks of fuel. At least 600 miles between fillups. It is about 100 miles between 'tickmarks' on the fuel guage.
...Just trying to point out that your TDI is not performing as expected 8-(
Also, I am almost at 10,000 miles now.....any recommendations on what type of oil to buy? I was reading the list on TDIclub.com, but honetly it just made my simple minded brain hurt (I am not familiar with car linggo). The website stated the Castrol oil used by the dealership is good but doesn't even fit the requirements stated in the handbook, so now I am wondering if my best bet is to buy my own oil. Here's my car info: 2002 Golf TDI GLS 1.9L. I really don't mind spending a ton of money, just as long as the oil will be better for my car in the long run. Thank you very much guys, you are all my heroes! I hope to become as knowledgeable as you all some day.
Its super easy if you pick up an oil pump that sucks the oil out of the top, you don't even need to go under the car. Just suck the oil out of the dipstick tube, replace the drop in cartridge style oil filter, fill the oil back up, and you are on your way! An oil change costs me about $26, which is less than half what I would be paying the dealer to do with worse oil.
RE BRAKES: The VW 4-wheel discs are awesome brakes ... way better than most Japanese cars.
My Beetle TDI has > 150,000 kms on it (95,000 miles) and has all the original brakes ... rears are about 1/2 worn. But I'm on my 3rd set of tires (Yokohama Avid V4)
Still 53 miles to a Canadian gallon (45.5 US MPG) with cruise control set between 80 and 85 MPH on I-5
MILEAGE & PERFORMANCE
Driving in slow city traffic, my revs range from 1500 to <2000 RPM. But in normal driving, I'm passing everything and shifting below 3000 revs.
You want it to be just below 1900 revs AFTER you shift on acceleration to use the torque band.
And guys with the trip computers report that mileage really drops over 2500 RPMs.
There have been several people that reported that the injection timing was not within specification right from the factory. I was lucky enough to locate someone with a VAG-COM that was willing to spend some time with my new TDI.
Using his VAG-COM, we set the EGR according to the tdiclub FAQ. We also displayed a graph of the injection timing. (He said mine was very good) He also said that the last brand-new TDI he had checked had the injection timing so far out of whack that the VAG-COM refused to display the graph.
BOTTOM LINE: I suggest you hook up with someone that has a VAG-COM and check the injection timing. This may be the source of your extremely poor MPG.
To locate somone with a VAG-COM in your area.... see the tdiclub "VAG-COM LIST" there are 100s of folks out there that are willing to help you.
As an above poster stated: my 2003 VW Jetta TDI does NOT have FREE service. It does have 4 year 50,000 mile warranty and roadservice. (which I hope never to fulfill on) The rust protection is also guaranteed for 12 years.
I was happy to hear you having good luck with the VW Beetle TDI brakes with 95,000 miles on the original pads, especially with the rear pads. Most of the informationI have read on Jetta brakes indicates that I need to really check on the rear pads going on 25,000 miles! While they have "made improvements" to the 2003 brakes, this is a case of "time will tell in the real world" Nonetheless I have a set of F/R Mintex Red replacement pads, and have a source for rear rotors should I not be as lucky as you with your brake mileage.
On the flip side it seems a bit odd that you are on the third set of tires approaching 95,000 miles ! The stock Goodyear LS's (which are probably not the best tires) give me an indication that they might go 75-80k. with not too much of a problem. While this may be meaningless, I have Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires with a 220 rating and have 52k on them and they started out with 8/32 tread, seemingly they have 10-15k left on them. Goodyear LS tires for the Jetta start with 11/32 tread and have a 360 rating.
My fuel mileage seems to mirror yours: 45.3 mpg (three persons in the vehicle, 200#'s of luggage, air conditioner full blast, cruising at XXX.) When my wife drives it for her daily 50 mile commute, it returns upwards of 47-51 mpg. I still can't get over how good this TDI mileage is!!!
Also, my original tires are Michelins.
In these days of persnickety engine warranty denial, I would be careful. The bottom line is: ask the dealer that you will get to do any engine warranty fulfillment. The first thing procedurally they do is to take an engine oil sample. Some Redline and Amsoil products ( excellent oils by the way) advertise they have passed applicable standards in in house testing/tests, but do not wish to come under the standards program to actually wear the certification label. So what they do, is say they will evaluate and adjudicate on a case by case basis and help to write letters to the OEM if you should be refused engine warranty service due to related oil concerns. So it puts the onus on you to exhaust ALL avenues of resolution before they will even evaluate it. So while engine failure due to oil related concerns is VERY VERY VERY RARE, it is WAY easy to deny warranty if you do not fully comply. Then you have to prove it was arbitrary and caprious !!! So if the worst case is alright with you, they are actually good oils. I don't buy them because 1. they cost more than off the shelf oil (in my case Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40) 2. tack on shipping. 3. not commonly available. 4. while they work well in extended change intervals (up to 25,000 miles) going beyond the manufacturers recommend cycle can void the warranty, so for warranty purposes, conceptually you lose the benefit of extended oil changes. So that causes me to ask the question: is buying this product worth the (whatever percentage) higher cost/bang for the buck? If Redline and Amsoil were similarly priced to Delvac 1 (5 dollars a qt) that would encourage me to use them. I have seen Redline at like 8.95 a qt. Amsoil priced at 5.20-5.95, but shipping adds app 1 dollar per qt!
Dont take my word for it, actually LOOK for Castrol Syntec 5W40 anywhere else you choose to look. You will not find it.
The biggest difference that TDI owners have reported between the factory Casrtol and the Delvac is the soot-handling charistics of the 2 oils. Do not forget that a diesel with ExhaustGasRecirculation tends to put a lot soot into the engine oil. This, in itself is not a big problem. The issue is how the oil handles all of this soot.
The Castrol tends to let the soot 'ball up' into little chunks and stick to the engine internals. This makes the oil on the dipstick look pretty clean.
The Delvac tends to clean the soot from all of the internal engine parts and hold the soot in suspension. This makes the oil on the dipstick look very black.
This is EXACTLY why folks have been saying that, with the proper filtering, the Delvac is used in OTR trucks that travel 100,000miles a year. It is DESIGHED to handle all of the soot that is thrown at it.
My mileage is getting better. Thanks to all of you who gave me those great tips. Thanks also for the oil recommendations. My first oil change was a whopping $65 or something, so I hope to get my next oil change for anything but that. After reading what bpeebles had to say about Delvac, it sounds great! Will using Delvac kill my warranty? I am going to teach my kids about cars, so they won't be as clueless as I.
Delvac 1 will keep your warranty in effect. While there are other oils, Delvac 1 seems to be one of the premuim oils of choice among TDI'ers. For me to use Mobil Delvac 1 brand was hardly a stretch, being as how I have used Mobil One SS 5w-30 for over 600k miles with 15k oil and oil filter change intervals.
Since over the course of 100k miles (and hopefully much much more) you will change your oil a total of 11 times (if you follow the OEM 10k interval) you might want to consider DIY for the oil and oil filter change.
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words ,http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB17&- Number=285874&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&- fpart=all&vc=1
But here are the words anyway.
According to your estimates of 65 per oil change @ 11 oil changes will cost 715 dollars. If you buy the evacuation unit (45) 11 oil filter inserts (6) and 12 gal of Delvac 1 (5) the parts prices will be app 351 dollars. Whatever you decide, welcome to the TDI community!
This model is also called "eco-squealers" because of the tradeoff of handling for mileage.
My approach to mileage is to avoid acceleration by not slowing for corners.
When I replaced the worn Michelins with Yokohamas on the front only, I almost lost it on the first 270 degree clover-leaf loop (running over 55MPH on a "slow to 30 MPH" corner) because the car no longer understeered! With Yokohamas on the front and Michelins on the back the cornering was neutral.
But I didn't dare rotate that combination (And the Yokos are directional, so side-to-side isn't an option). So when I wore out the yokohamas on the front then I just had all 4 replaced with Yokohamas. The Michelins on the back actually had decent tread still........
So, at 95,000 miles, I've just finished 1.5 sets of tires, and started on new ones.
Personally, there are only 4 makers of decent tires: Bridgestone, Pirelli, Yokohama, and Michelin. And Michelin's best are THE best (if price is no object). But if you want high performance tires that actually last under hard cornering then Yokohama is the only game in town.
I know my tires would last longer if I slowed for corners more, but what fun is there in that?
(plus I'd probably be changing brakes then)
thanx,
sfh