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I happened to meet a real TDI "guru" at a get together some months ago. He has taken apart and repaired more than his share of TDI engines. So in order of what I remember, ie not his actual words, there are a few things to keep the TDI engine humming to 550k and beyond. (he says: light weight shoot for a M. miles)
1.Use the best oil that you can. In my case I settled on Mobil One Delvac. It has been repackaged for the overall retail market as Mobil One SUV and truck 5w40 oil. (not the 2004 TDI PD
Of the engines he has taken apart, he says the CA engines are far cleaner(by law 45 cetane (less soot etc) than engines run on 49 state fuel (by law 40 cetane).
Best of luck to you and your TDI and keep your snorkle screen clean!
Also I was wondering if it was possible to reply to a post being just a member. I have some info that might be valuable to people. I would also like to thank the people who took the time to respond to my questions and it is impossible to do unless they leave their email address in there profile..
Oh yeah, what about the EGR mod? I live on the east coast(nj). Is this mod a must?
Well thanks in advance..
Len
Not only does the manual tranny give over 5MPG better over the auto... the manual also has much less maintenace requirements. A manual tranny will easilly go over 100K miles before you need to consider changing the factory-fill synthetic fluid.
The TDI engine has SOO MUCH TORQUE that there is rarely a need to apply the throttle when starting off from a stop.... just ease out on the clutch and you are moving along...THEN apply the throttle. The clutch will last the life of the vehicle when treated thusly.
The high torque nature of the TDI is a perfect match for an automatic.
The automatic cost more when new so at the same price for auto or manual used TDI the auto is a better value.
Of course this is a question of taste, need, and personal driving habits.
As to reliability and longevity, if you keep a modern automatic well-maintained, there is no reason it won't last as long as you'll want to keep the car. That maintenance, taken in total, will probably add up to a bit more than the cost of a new clutch over the same period of time, but it won't be significant. Which is why I maintain this is a question of intended use and personal taste...without question, of course...
I've driven both manual tdi's and auto tdi's for long periods of time and they both perform very similar once you figure out what you're doing. The auto tranny has to learn your habits and you have to learn how to tell it what you want. Mashing the power will downshift the auto too far and rev you out of the power band. I find mid-throttle inputs work best for maximum acceleration. You also have to be careful not to lug the manual tranny as it's hard on the turbo. Neither of these cars are get-in and turn the key type cars.
If I was in your shoes, I'd go for the manual. The auto does have a bit better resale value (which means the auto is the better buy up front in this case), but another 5mpg will add up over the life of the car. Should save you over $300 in 100k miles which should cover a clutch if it's needed. I'd buy an automatic if it were cheaper than the manual because that really makes it a good deal. If you don't drive very much, the auto might be the better deal on both ends.
Auto or manual? Yep, it does come down to personal preference and less mpg with auto and higher initial purchase price for the auto when new. They are both enjoyable to drive.
-Lido
I own a 2001 Jetta TDI GLS, and, generally, I do love the car for the fuel economy it provides and also the handling/performance. I have logged 99,300 km to date. Apart from regular maintenance and new tires at about 80,000 kms, I have had the following work done to my car:
- replaced driver's seat base at 42,000 kms(it sqeaked badly when I drove over a bump). Dealer did this under warranty (even though I was slightly over the km limit!). New seat is ok.
- replaced rear brake pads at 62,000 kms. They wore out. I thought this was unusual (my fronts are still original and fine today!). Dealer told me VW uses softer pads in the rear. Does anyone know if this is true? I am suspicious of the dealer's explanation.
- Car would not start on Xmas eve 2003. Had to tow it to dealer. Problem was a faulty ignition switch (located inside the steering column). Took 2 weeks for the dealer to secure part (via USA as none were available in Canada!). Part cost about $200 Canadian + labour + tow. I was amazed that it could be so difficult to find a part!
My Check engine lamp has turned on a few days ago. Reading the manual, it appears this acknowledges a problem with the emission control system. My car is running great so I have not bothered to run to the dealer - yet. I am hoping this is not a big deal.
I know realize, from reading many of the posts on this site, that I am now due for a timing belt change (I need to confirm if I have the upgraded belt that some 2001's got). Not looking forward to the cost of this (apparently $700.00 Canadian).
I will be doing my own fuel filter + air filer changes from now on - I have done some research on the fuel filter change (through this forum) and it does not appear difficult to do.
I also note that I did go to Jiffy for 1 oil (synthetic) change - they provided good service but they had some difficulty with the splash paned remove/re-install under the oil pan. They charged an extra $10 bucks for this bringing the total for the oil change to $84 + tax. It costs about $100 + tax at the dealer so I won't bother with Jiffy anymore!
Overall, I love my car but have realized that it costs higher than average to maintain. It appears to me that the fuel savings goes back into maintenance.
Maintenance: These can be expensive to maintain if you must rely on a dealer. That's also true of many other brands as well, but VW is higher cost in general. I'm not sure I agree that all the fuel savings goes back into maintenance. It would certainly depend on what you were comparing it to in order to figure your fuel savings from the beginning and the maitenance costs along the way.
For me, I'd be comparing it to a V6 sedan of some sort. In the past I always commuted with V6 Camrys. My overall costs are much lower with the TDI, but we're talking about a 20mpg jumpstart to begin with. I've never found a 4cyl gas that I could live with. I think if you were satsified with the performance of a Corolla or Civic, you could come out ahead of a TDI on total costs. Actually something like a Focus or Cavalier would be even cheaper (from my days in fleet management). I would never own any of those, and the Camry wasn't my idea of a great car either, but it did have decent power and comfort.
Your oil changes are about $75 US for a synthetic oil change every 10k miles. Last time I took a car to the dealer for an oil change it was $25 for conventional oil, and I'd do it every 5k miles. Some cars might go a bit longer, but I think 5k is safe on conventional oil. So it costs you $25 more in oil every 10k miles. Not much if you ask me. As to Jiffy lube, oh boy. I just changed my oil this weekend, and if someone can't figure out the belly pan I don't want them working on my car. There's about eight star-bit screws holding the thing on. This is one of the easiest cars to change the oil on. I spent about $35 on the oil/filter and it took about 15 minutes. Good to go for another 10k miles at least.
60,300 miles driving at 70 mph it bogged and quit. Towed to shop. Mechanic took intake off had to replace throttle valve too sooted to clean, got about 2 coffee cans of soot out of the intake. Cost over $1375.00 with the tow.
I buy #2 fuel in the summer, #1 in winter. Add a fuel additive with every fill up. Car is generally driven 1,200+ miles/month. With two trips of 500+ miles at 60-75 mph/ month.
HELP!!! Does anyone have a fix?
My dealership charges less than $60 for an oil-change using the approved 5W40 synthetic lube. This includes a REAL Volkswagen oil-filter. (not the cheapie that the quikie-lube places use) I also doubt that quikie-lube even STOCKS the proper oil for the TDI engine. (Mobil1 is NOT acceptable.)
Your check-engine lamp can be caused by several possibilities. Suspect the glow-plug harness or connectors.
The TDI should NOT cost more to maintain than any other VW. They ALL have timing belts that need to be replaced. The TDI DOES NOT have sparkplugs or any other ignition parts that the gassers have. Oil changes are only slightly more expensive than the gasser-counterpart... but are only needed every 10K miles.... so the cost evens out.
What maintenance of the TDI do you feel costs MORE than a gasser VW?
Of course, there is a reason that VW505.1 oil is specified for the TDI. It is DESIGNED to be used in a diesel engine with cooled EGR. It has additives to handle the soot.
It is unfortuane that you had to pay so much for a simple intake cleaning. (including tow) That cost is OUTREAGEOUS. If it got so bad that it QUIT RUNNING, you must have been oblivious to the symptoms that lead up to that situation.
BTW: I did the "EGR mod" on my 2003 at around 1000 miles. I planned on doing it BEFORE I purchased a TDI.
I guess when I say that I find it expensive to maintain my Jetta TDI, I really mean that relative to what it has cost me to use a dealer to do the work for this car compared to other cars I have owned.
I realize that there are savings in fuel costs + other types of maintenance that gassers might need. However, in my past experiences in owning at 1986 Chevy Nova (corrolla), 1992 Mazda B2200 and 2000 Mazda Protege, I have never spent anywhere near the amount of $$ in maintenance compared to my TDI. As an example, this is what it has cost me to date to maintain my TDI through the VW dealer (parts + labour: taxes extra):
- $100 for 48,000 kms oil change
- $430 for 64,000 km oil change + fuel filter + pollen filter + air filter + inspections
- $200 for new rear back pads @ 65,000 kms
- $100 for 80,000 kms oil change
- $400 for ignition switch @ 92,000 kms
- $400 for 96,000 km oil change + fuel filter + pollen filter + air filter + inspections (though I have not performed this one yet - I did the oil change at Jiffy for about $80 as I explained in my previous post but I still need to do the other items listed in the 96,000 km recommended maintenance)
- $700 for new timing belt at 96,000 kms (I have not done this one yet but will soon at VW)
- $??? for the correction of the check engine malfunction indicator lamp
Totalling the above amounts to $2,600 + taxes (I have assumed a $240 cost for to correct the check engine problem). This is for a car that I have now driven 99,500 kms.
For the first 100,000 km in any of the other cars I have owned, I have not spent anywhere near this amount. I am someone who properly cares for and maintains my cars. For example, my Mazda B2200, which I drove for 6 years and put 220,000 kms on it, I spent significantly less than this during the first 100,000 kms. I don't have the maintenance records for the B2200 as I gave them to the purchaser but I recall the regular maintenance intervals cost anywhere from $30 - $160 (depending on the service interval). I did replace rear shoes for the B2200 for around $160 and the timing belt for around $260. I would say that the first 100,000 kms cost me about $1,380 at the most (includes rear brake shoes + timing belt). My 1986 Chevy Nova was a complete joy when it came to maintenance and I doubt I exceeded $800 for the first 100,000 kms.
When I look at the fuel savings in driving my Jetta, I probably still come out ahead. I have owned my Jetta for just over 2.5 years and I have likely saved about $600 per year in fuel (using my 2000 Protege as a fuel consumption comparator). This translates to $1,500 in fuel savings over 2.5 years. When I factor in this saving, the Jetta ends up costing me less overall. I don't dispute that. However, fact is that a good chunk of the fuel savings is going back in to maintain this car. I say this with the thought in mind that I don't own a lemon - my troubles are not that significant.
I love my Jetta TDI - I have no plans to sell it because of the above costs. I plan to run it to 500,000 kms eventually - maybe pass it on to my son one-day! However, in reality, if people buy this car thinking that they will save significant dollars because of the fuel savings, they should be wary of the fact that it works out to about almost the same if they faithfully use dealer for maintenance and repairs. My thought is that I will consider starting to do my own maintenance for things such as oil changes, fuel/air/pollen filters (maybe even brakes) and leave things like timing belts and the electronic stuff to the dealer!
Again, thanks for your comments to my post.
I certainly agree (as I posted above) that there are likely cheaper cars to operate. It's a stretch to compare a Protege to a Jetta, IMHO. Sometimes you just have to pay for better driving vehicles. It would be like me complaining that maintenance on my Audi A6 is higher than a Ford Taurus.
I have 2 small children (2 and 8) and have been thinking about either the Jetta Wagon - or waiting for a Passat.
My question is this - should I be at all concerned that this is the first year for the diesel Passat? I know VW's been making diesels for years, and that this is more an issue of the first time the model has been imported to the US - not the first year its been made - but I just worry about spare parts pipelines, etc. and wonder if I should wait or go for the Jetta since it's been in the "system" for a few years.
Would appreciate any thoughts.
If I go with the Jetta I want it loaded - GLS, w/ all the extras - traction, hotseats, and the OnStar system.
The salesdork I have been dealing with has searched the region and sees nothing like that on the ground. So I have been asking about a custom order. I am getting huge pushback from the guy - really trying to discourage me from considering that route. He says that the TDI in a wagon is super hard to come by - and that, when I am ready to write the check, he'll find something at another dealer that is close to what I want and trade for it.
Since they also aren't moving much off of sticker for this car, it seems to me that I should get exactly what I want - not something "close"
Is it possible to custom order a TDI and is there a dealer in the Midwest (NE, IA, KS, MO) that I should be dealing with to get better cooperation?
Thanks
Thanks
In Canada there will be a Jetta TDI Sport with similar equipment to the Jetta Wolfsburg edition that was offered last year in the US.
Very attractive price and features on the Jetta TDI Sport, if you live in Canada I recommend it.
When I was car shopping last year, I asked people in the Edmunds forums about the back seat space, too. Someone thought I was "inhuman" for trying to squeeze two children into the back seat.
After a year, I can say passenger space for small children isn't bad -- as long as it's a short trip (under two hours). And while it seems Volkswagen sacrificed back seat leg room for cargo space, once I get the stroller, playpen, diaper bag, small cooler and a few toys in the back, there isn't room for too much else.
I bought the Jetta because of my long commute for work (100 miles round trip) and the fact that 90 percent of the time I'm alone in the car. My mileage has been very good, though I might have to find someone to help me with the EGR mod this summer.
Outside of a defective radio mast (covered under warranty) and regular oil/filter changes, I haven't spent any money on the car.
I've resigned myself to trading in the Jetta within the next few years. There just isn't any room to add a third car seat, and even if the wife and I stop at two kids, I think in a few years the girls will need more legroom. Now if only VW would bring a TDI minivan to the states...
Knowing what I do now, I'd still by the Jetta -- just not with a beige/tan cloth interior. No sippy cup or bottle is spill proof, and dirt from small feet shows up like bib overalls at the opera. If I could buy again, I'd get leather, or at least black cloth.
Thanks!
Dealers likely love this because I've seen charges ranging from $300-$600 for cleaning the intake. Or you can do it yourself, it takes a couple hours.
I've heard of TDI's with very low mileage getting the intake clogged, and I've also seen non-modified TDI's with 200k miles with no intake clogging. Seems to really vary, and I would guess the conditions listed above can make or break whether this is an issue or not. It seems that lots of idling or city driving would have the worst effect, since that's when the EGR is active.
If you choose to by-pass the EGR, you need to find someone willing to do this that has a VW scan tool. An independant mechanic might not make this adjustment and a dealer likely would never because it effects the emissions. This adjustment is legal for off-road use only. It's not too hard to find someone with a VW Scan Tool as they can be purchased for around $300. I have one and if you email me your location I can get you a list of TDI owners near you that have one.
I chose the TDI over the Volvo V40 and Toyota Prius because of the fuel efficiency and potential longevity of the TDI, and the prospect of burning biodiesel. As it appears that burning biofuels will void the warranty (at least here in the US), I am still burning regular dino-diesel. It has been suggested that a "don't ask, don't tell" approach to burning biodiesel (or a blend of dino and bio) is the best approach, but I'm pretty sure that the slightest wiff of French fries in the exhaust would set off alarms at my next regular service interval.
One possible solution might be to tank up with straight dino-diesel well before a visit to the VW service department, insuring that most traces of biofuel has been replaced with dino-fuel. Does anyone think this approach is not sufficient to keep VWoA from revoking my extended warranty? Are there any negative impacts to occasionally switching back to 100% dino-fuel?
With regard to previous posts on leg room, I don't have kids and rarely have reason to cart adults in the rear seats, so rear leg room is less of an issue for me. What I do find irritating is the loss of front leg room when the rear seats are folded down, as the front seats lose at least 6" of slide distance.
Problem I can think of is that if you have a catastrophic failure and get towed in loaded up with biodiesel, they might figure it out. Most warranty companies will certainly enforce their policies to benefit their wallet whenever possible.
Less likely they'd catch the EGR mod. They'd have to specifically go hunting for it with their computer hooked up. Unless you'd take it in for some sort of EGR problem (that I can't imagine ever happening since it's turned off anyway!!) it would be something for them to stumble upon this AND notice that it had been dialed down. Considering the abilities of most dealers when it comes to TDI's, I would fall off my stool if one even knew the EGR could be bypassed.
Instead, performing the "EGR MOD" simply turns it down to a very low level... but not completely OFF.
Some other things that help keep the intake from getting clogged are:
*) Occaisional full-throttle accelelration
*) Running Bio-Diesel
*) Cleaning intake screen (aka..SnowScreen)
Thanks in advance for all of your comments and input.
Best Regards,
Jay
I do 25k per year and absolutely love my 2003 Jetta TDI and it has been flawless!
As for dealer pricing, that's a really variable thing. Just like any other brand, there are "dealers" and then there are "stealers".
I live in N.E. Minnesota. Thanks Caddy
Just curious what the prevailing logic is on including the spare in the rotation pattern? I expect when I go through the stock tires I'll throw someone completely different on - so having a mismatched set is not the best. But...*knock*knock* ....I'm sure I'll never need the spare so maybe I'm overthinking this.
Appreciate any thoughts.
What the OEM doesn't not directly say, yet hints at in tire wear,alignment and brake pad trouble shooting technical data(in other words hidden in plain sight in the fine print) , and owners with more miles have confirmed is: the right front (passenger) position wears faster than the left front. In order of most to least wear: 1. right front 2. left front 3. right rear 4. left rear 5. spare Static balance is at 60% front and 40% rear. In operation it does exceed that. (even more biased toward the front)
So the guiding principle on rotation is to put the tires with the least wear to the position with the most wear. Obviously, this can be confusing, so here are two (5 tire rotation) codifications.
For normal tires (cross pattern)
1 spare to right rear
2 right rear to left front
3. left front to left rear
4. left rear to right front
5. right front to spare
For normal tires and/or directional tires (non cross)
(as a note; if directional tires are used, 3 "right side" tires will have to be mounted in the same direction)
1. spare to right front
2. right rear to right front
3 right front to spare
4. left front to left rear
5. left rear to left front
So now here are three options. The other note is that some tire gurus say 10,000 is too long a time for the tire in one position (it can take too much of a set) So between 5,000 and 7,500 miles is recommended between rotations. I personally do 25,000 miles per year and 5k is too much like work!
If you are a spirited driver or want to try to get the absolute most miles from the tires, then I would recommend 5,000 mile rotations.
Ended up talking them down about $900 from sticker. BUT...when I got home, I went through the owner's manual. In there is a maintenance manual where they stamp and date the various service entries that are recommended. And the first stamp and date? The delivery inspection when the car arrived at the dealer.
My inspection date? 12/4/2003. So the car that sells as soon as they get them - had been sitting at the dealer for 4 months!
Pretty good information to have before negotiating. I recommend checking that date during your test drive.
VW sales were down 25% AGAIN last month. VW has finally resorted to incentive increases (which they said they would not do) and that do include the TDI (low finance rates EXCLUDE TDI).
TDI is imported in low numbers. Less than 16% of VW's imported are TDI.
Majority of population is unaware of diesel passenger cars and have negative perception of diesel. That said, every time gas prices increase, TDI disappear to those wise consumers who realize how fantastic the VW TDI is.
If they don't have a similar program, anyone have any experience on getting out of a VW lease a little early and into another VW car? I just was curious on how strict VW is with their leases.