By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Those were the specific brands, 3/2 respectively.
126,000 miles right now, no trans or torque converter problems. Best mileage, 24.3 mpg over 270 miles... not bad for a 7000 pound truck, eh?
kcram
Host - Wagons
Off the top of my head, some items to consider (Make sure they have already been tended to)
*) Window regulators (electric windows only)
*) Cooant migration problem
*) Radio not wired properly (weak bass due to out-of-phase speakers)
best regards...
My TDI had No trouble at all maintinaing 80MPH over mountian passes when I was in Colorado. The high altatudes make most non-turbocharged engines feel whimpy.... but the turbocharger in the TDI "compensates" for the altitude.
Somthing you can try to determine if the MAF (MassAirFlow) sensor is bad: Simply disconect the electric plug from it and drive. Although the CEL (CheckEngineLight) may com on, if your power is restored, replace the MAF sensor. (and get even MORE power!)
The reason this simple test works is because when the wire is unplugged from the MAF, the engine computer defaults to a built-in program called "Limp mode" to compensate for the missing signal from the MAF sensor. The "limp mode" settings are often better than the signal from a bad MAF sensor.
To answer your question about 3000 RPM... it is most often suggested that the TDI engine be shifted OVER 3000 RPM under normal accelleration.
If your TDI has been kept below 3000 RPM for most of its life, then your intake is surely plugging up.
Yeah, this is one of the things I should have mention, if indeed it is NOT the MAF; as to why I suspect it might be EGR and or intake manifold or system. There are app 9 items that one monitors on a car, but on a TDI one of them should be the sweet spot that the TDI operates 2200-4000 rpms. One of the things that needs to be done routinely (during gear shifting, acceleration and deceleration, for examples) is to rev the motor to app 75% or 3000-4000 rpms. While 1800 rpms is where max torque comes, the 3000-4000 rpms ranges allows the turbo vanes to function well and helps to keeps it from seizing up and the revs in this range also lessen or prevent internal soot build up.(sort of a lesser italian tune up, I hope this doesnt offend anyone) The EGR mod also helps. If you are cruising in 5th gear the optimum is of course 3000 rpm and or slightly below. The problem of course is it may be too fast mph wise.
While most TDI owners know this, 80-85 mph is one of the real sweet spots of the VW TDI, as mated with the 5 speed manual transmission. This interesting fact is routinely ignored by the anti diesel folks and proponents of hybrids and/or normal cars.
Using a 2004 Honda Civic (the Civic has been written up in more than Edmunds.com as one of the best in its class and also cost effective commute/young person and new starting out couples cars, yada, yada,) as a comparison, (own one) at those speeds the car is twitchy compared to the VW Jetta TDI. 80-85 is NOT the sweet spot for the Honda Civic. The mileage at those speeds is 35/36 mpg max vs 49-52 mph on the TDI, or 29% to 31% better. At the Honda Civic's sweet spots, the TDI mileage is absolutely KILLER in comparison to the Honda Civic. I recently did a 65-70 mph jaunt and pulled down 61 mpg. The Civic was able to knock down 39 mpg. Most folks would agree that 39 mpg is absolutely excellent.
That's more of a problem starting 2002 when they went to the Double-Din Premium VI radio -- where the radio was not wired properly, eventually resulting in a TSB
The coolant migration problem can still (and has) happened to the PD motors also
another question...do you improve mpg by coasting?
thanks!
1)The TDI engine is most efficent at 1800 RPM (the torque peak)(about 40MPH in fourth gear and 57MPH in 5th gear)
2)You get maximum MPG during decellerration in gear. (Like all fuel-injected engines there is ZERO fuel injected under this conditon.)
Pushing the clutch in or decellerating in neutral forces the engine to inject fuel to keep it idling this uses some fuel.
---------
The suggestion to shift ABOVE 3000 RPM is to reduce plugging of the turbocharger VNT vanes, intercooler and intake manifold. Full-throttle accelleration should be used at least twice for each tank of fuel....again to keep things cleaned out. Once it starts to plug up... often the only remedy is to remove the parts and manually clean them. Puttsing around with a TDI engine is a sure way to invite problems.
No one is suggesting that you "race around", there is no need to go fast, just ACCELLERATE BRISKLY to the legal speed limit.
At 10,000 miles, your engine is barely even starting to break in. If you have been babying the engine for the first 10,000 miles, you may have created poorly seated rings. On any new engine, the best way to seat the rings is to use bursts of full-throttle accelleration after the initial wear-in. It is also important to follow the accelleration bursts with some coasting in gear. (This also helps the rings to seat)
People that actually MEASURE the compression on TDI engines have reported that the TDI engine will increase MPG during the first 20K to 30K miles as the rings start to seal well.
After the first 500 miles on my TDI, I concensesly loaded the engine up a long, steep hill and coasted back down once a day for several weeks.
Even many VW dealerships have been putting the wrong oil in those PD engines.
Here is a photo of the ONLY allowable oils to be used in the 2004 TDI PD engine.
http://sustainablepower.net/TDI/OA/IMG_5191.JPG
It seems the PD engines are getting a bit less mpg than some of the older non-PD motors. Mine gained about 2mpg overall between 0-20k miles. I'm sitting on about 46mpg overall. I can get 50mpg on all highway trips, running pretty swiftly. So potentially if the PD's are off a mpg or two anyway, plus you've got a green engine...I think 41mpg is realistic. Mine is an '00 TDI btw.
I also didn't notice what type of driving you're doing. If it's heavily city, stop/go, 41mpg "ain't too shabby".
Meanwhile, anyone care to comment on risk of delaying timing belt changing? My 2001 Jetta TDI is near 64000. I understand the reccomended change is at 60000. I also know that if it breaks the valves will get bent. I am thinking more about risk verses oportunity and cash reserve.
Again, thanks to all.
Make sure somone that had actually knows TDIs does the work. (some folks have reported bent valves because a new belt was installted incorrectly)
Additionally, do not forget that the waterpump and timingbelt adjuster must be replaced at the same time. (they wont last another 60K miles)
There is a moter-mount bolt that must be removed and REPLACED with a new one when the TD is changed. VWs use special "stretch bolts" that are only good for one tightening. (some folks have reported the engine almost falling out because they tried to save a few dollers and reused the old bolt.)
Once fixed, the alignment has held better than any other car I have owned. When I went to buy replacement tires, I found that the OEM Michelins were rated to 110 MPH! The ones just below them in performance were only rated to 90 MPH but had a longer tread life guarantee. Best of all, they were cheaper. The tire salesman couldn't convince me that a diesel car would need 110 mph tires. Of course, I'd rather slow down and push up the fuel mileage. Good luck.
Walt
In the not too distant future ALL diesel fuel sold in the USA will be ULSD. Most of us are eagerly awaiting the Federal regulations to kick in. Running ULSD can virtually ELIMINATE the intake plugging issues that the TDI has in the USA.
The main reason that USA still has "dirty diesel" is because it is cheeper to leave the sulphur in there than to refine it out.
The old argument that sulpher helps lubricate the ancient diesel engines with only a few million miles on them...is a fallacy. The REAL reason the ULSD tends to be harmful is because the refining process that removes the sulpher also removes most of the lubricity from the fuel. This causes the expensive fuel pumps to wear out.
Since anyone with a TDI should know better than to run "straight diesel" in their car, this is a non-issue. ALWAYS add the proper amount of diesel fuel additive when filling up. A good additive will increase MPG, reduce smoke and add lubricity for the fuel pump. It is often the difference between 48MPG and 52MPG.
Thanks for the information. My resources here in Pasadena, Maryland lead me to going directly to VW for MAF check. Later on next month I will go for timing belt, probably with VW as well, although there is a foreign car place that may be able to handle the timing belt. Whatever, your information is most appreciated.
Cheers, janpride2
One of the best oils available for the TDI is Mobil DELVAC1. This is available at wallmart under the name "Mobil 1 Truck and SUV". Using this, an oil change is a bit cheaper.
Air filters have been shown to last up to 50K miles. Amortized over the life of the vehicle, this is not significant. The cabin filter is under $20. The fuel filter is nearly $50.
The big expense is the timing belt replacement which includes several expensive items and labor. This depending on the year of your TDI and the xmission type, the change interval for this can be between 60K to 100K miles.
If you are comparing this to a gasser. the cabin filter, air filter and timing belt can be eliminted from the equasion because BOTH engines have thess expenses.Since I would use synthetic oil in ANY engine I own, for me that can also be negated.
This leaves the diesel fuel filter as an "adder" which the gasser does not have.
On the other side of things, the gasser has sparkplugs and wires which need maintaince.
Seems to me that the TDI really does not cost all that much more for general manitenance than a gasser. (and may be about the same or less)
Even with all glow plugs working perfectly, if the IQ is not set exactly right, a TDI will start hard and smoke while running.
The only time I get a slight puff of smoke is just after starting below -10F. At all other times, I cant even MAKE my TDI smoke by using full-throttle accelleration.
My IQ has been checked using a "VAG-COM" to be near the top of the spec. (which is the best setting)
instead, it has variable nozzles. (also called "vanes") These vanes direct the
exhaust flow thru the turbine blades (which spin iniside the vanes).
Here is a link that shows several photos of a "plugged up" VNT. There is also an animated gif of the moving vanes inside a VNT.
http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/vtg-sequenz.gif
I beleive what they were trying to tell you is that the vanes are not moving
freely. $80 to wiggle the vanes free is a rediculous price. A child could reach
under the car an wiggle the actuator lever to free it up.
The $2000 is for a brand new turbocharger. (which will also get plugged up if
the original CAUSE is not corrected)
This is most often caused by "babying" a TDI engine. If you are not using FULL
THROTTLE accelleration at least twice per tank of fuel, the vanes may not be
getting 'exercized'. Also, running the TDI engine hard will tend to "burn off"
accumulated soot from the vanes.
Perhaps your TDI is not getting enough of that "high accelleration" that makes
the problem appear. (You are moving the vanes to a point where they rarely go...
then they get stuck there)
If you search the net for "Turbocharger Vane Maintenance", you should find some
additional information about this subject.
I just five minutes of research on the TDI, I have ruled it out. VW's are not known for having inexpensive maintenance/repair costs, but to require a new timing belt AND waterpump AND motor mounts in the first 60K is unreasonable. Add to that the very expensive oil required (and where the h*ll do you get it in the US?), and the lower initial purchase price and insurance of a Civic, and it beats the TDI in overall costs, hands down.
It is similar to the hybrid illusion. You get great mileage, but you pay $300 for a 12V starter battery in the Prius. And who knows what the main battery pack will cost? In the end, it doesn't add up.
Someone must have put a spreadsheet together comparing overall cost of ownership of TDI's vs. Civic vs. whatever. Would they like to share?
I think that you are probably part of the app 97% that would rule out a diesel product, judging by the % of diesel's in the app 231M passenger vehicle fleet. of 2.3-2.9%. So indeed it is almost a no brainer that the majority of folks would reject/not purchase (almost out of hand) this product. Also a new timing belt AND waterpump etc. (motor mounts are reuseable in the Honda) ARE REQUIRED in my 2004 Honda Civic. So why is that reasonable in a Honda Civic using your example, (verified by my owners manual, Honda web site,shop manual), but not so in a TDI? (TDI's have a 100k vs 120k for a Honda Civic) Were you being disengenous, inadvertently due to overlooking this requirement, or merely wanting to give more credence to your point? Perhaps 1 min more of research would have clarified this for you? Or perhaps not. In regards to the oil, I have no issues going 20,000 to 25,000 on Delvac One 5w40. in a TDI vs a 10k normal/5k severe Honda oem recommendation. But truthfully going to a Mobil One 5w20 or 0w20, I would have no qualms going 20,000 miles in a Honda either.
I have done the spreadsheets on both the TDI and Civic and I own both a 2004 Honda Civic and a 2003 TDI. The TDI due to some of the variables that you have mention, BE's against a Civic at the 400,000 mark. Another one is the TDI starts to be cost effective at app 20,000 miles per year. I would agree that if you are a 5 year 100k mile finance, time, and mileage user(12-15k per year): a Civic makes more economic sense than a TDI. So if you do not want to go that far (20k per year or to BE of 400,000 miles) then I can well understand your sentiments. After BE or 400,000 miles the TDI literally blows the Civic out of the water.
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/vortex_news/article_1183.shtml
Find another place to take your car-or go in and talk to the service mgr. I'm in CT-might be less to come here and have it done. BTW-I wouldn't trust the unstuck theory. Often a vacummn hose is at fault-my check engin light came back on hours after the WGV was replaced-it was a cracked hose-a $200.00 hose that-you guessed it-had to be ordered.
love my car/hate my car ::sign::
T2
Nova
Every rational diesel owner I know uses the appropriate additive in the tank at every fillup to prevent just this problem. You can also use #1 [if you can find it], but the quality of #1 in this country is so poor that the engine runs like crap on it. It won't get as goopy as quickly, but it's little more than kerosene, and modern auto diesels don't like it. The additives are the usual solution, and they are widely available on the net at discounted prices. Most are combined with a cetane improver and anti-algae ingredients.
I have NEVER had fuel gell up even when the temps stay below -10F for days.
It is not harmful to 'overdose' with additive so when cold wether is expected, I add a full 8oz per fillup. (usually use 6oz)
Other benifets of using additive are:
*)Better MPG
*)faster startup
*)elimination of smoking
*)and most importantly.... LUBRICATE THE FUEL PUMP (which is VERY expensive to replace)