Volkswagen TDI Models

145791049

Comments

  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    with the stock Michelin Energy MXV4+, with my Golf, I have no problems, except for deep, unplowed snow.

    Next winter, it's snow tires
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I agree snow tires would really help. They all sit too low to the ground for me though as I live out roads that never get plowed. Had a snow/ice storm sneak up on me while I was gone last week and I could only make it within three miles of home. Wife had to come get me. I normally drive my Cherokee when foul weather is expected. I'm running Continental ContiTouring CH95 which is a nice compromise and has managed light-snow as well as can be expected for FWD.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    The Jetta Wagon has over an inch more clearance than the other ones (see http://www.vw.com ) and would be my choice.

    - D
  • abc246abc246 Member Posts: 305
    Is the power increasing for '04? I like the mpg of the current TDI, but can I not handle the poor acceleration. In city traffic the power lag drives me crazy.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    about $400 (with labor) for a chip upgrade.

    Tuning boxes costs a little less.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I believe later in the fall, the '04 will have the power bump. I'm not sure on your question though as it won't be any differt than a current TDI with a chip. I also doubt the "lag" will disappear as that's more of a turbo-diesel thing than a power issue. It's also more of a driver issue IMHO. I can keep up with traffic just fine. Do you own a current TDI or are you just talking from a test drive?
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Actually the lag that everyone notices is from idle to 1500 rpms.
  • liguor60liguor60 Member Posts: 9
    Is there an aftermarket mod chip available for the Jetta TDI? And does it void the warranty? Also, who manufactures them and where do I look?

    Thanks.
    Anthony
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    the most common is Upsolute

    yes it will void the warranty
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    having your TDI 'chipped' will not just "void the warantee"... that statement is too vague. If one were to follow that line of thinking.... adding a bumper-sticker will void the warantee ;-)

    It will NOT void any warantee on steering, suspension, wheels, window-regulators, and a lot of other stuff. (which is more likely to break anyway)

    Technically, if you "modify" your vehicle... it does NOT automatically void the warantee on the entire vehicle.

    Keep in mind that some people have reported that the CLUTCH will slip and wear out quickly if the TDI is "chipped".... since the clutch IS NOT COVERERED under warantee anyway.... this is not really an issue. (like brakes.... the clutch is considered a "wear item")

    'chipping; WILL void the "emmissions warantee".... this is a FEDERALLY MANDATED warantee (10 years 100,000 miles) that your new vehicle will meet emmissions requirements.
  • tdcartertdcarter Member Posts: 2
    I am researching buying a Jetta TDI in the next few months. I am on the westside of the greater Portland, OR area, and I am interested in anyone's experiences with dealers in Oregon/SW Washington. I am willing to go further away to purchase, but would like to have something closer for service.

    From what I read on these forums, it's very important to find a good dealer w/ a good service reputation who really knows these cars.

    Any input (thumbs up or down) on dealers/salespeople, and service would be much appreciated.

    Also, heads-up on any other local resources (e.g., TDI mechanics, chip/parts sources, people w/ VAG-COM, etc.) would also be very appreciated!

    I hope to buy in the next couple of months and become a more active member here!

    Thx,

    TC
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    You can also install a tuning box, which will give you just as much power as a chip, and is far safer for warranty issues. Its simply plugs into your existing wiring, so if you need to go to the dealer, you just pop it out. This could also be nice if you ever want to sell it, with the chip you dont really have anything to sell should you want to.

    http://www.jannettyracing.com/vw.htm

    "Hp is increased by 30 and torque by 45"
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I went to a TDI get-together back in September, and this company called Speed Tuning USA (www.speedtuningusa.com)was selling boxes there.
  • abc246abc246 Member Posts: 305
    My TDI experience comes from test drives. I have never driven a chipped TDI. I am not a driver that drives for mileage at all, however I do like getting good gas mileage. I use full throttle starts almost all the time in everything I drive from a 300 hp Northstar to 500 hp Cummins Turbo with a Banks stage 3 kit when I can.

    I have a Gtech performance meter and measure every car/truck I get my hands on from 0 to 60. I did not time the TDI but would expect it to be about 11 secs. From my experience, any car that runs over 8.5 secs feels slow. I know diesels can be quick and have good throttle response (think Duramax). This diesel goes from 0 to 60 in about 8 sec and has a great feel to it!

    I was hoping that VW would address the TDI turbo lag like they did in the 1.8T gas engine and increase the HP. I really do not want to chip it because of the clutch, warranty, ect.

    What could I expect from the mileage if I drove this TDI hard? Full throttle starts, passing full throttle to 90-100, full throttle on ramp acceleration, ect. Would the engine last? Is it built like a true diesel to handle this use? Would the turbo hold up? I really wanted this car to have a gas engines response (not VW non turbo gas engine) and TDI mileage.
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    TDIs have great passing power. No need to downshift on the highways. The "sweet spot" is 2000 to 3500 RPMs, so the power is easily accessable.

    And, the chip (www.upsolute.com) makes a big difference. 30% power bump, and a tremendous "seat of the pants" boost. Once you learn to not just peel out all the time, your MPG should actually increase a bit (mine did).

    2004 modely year TDIs WILL see a bump in power. Word is, a 100HP engine for the Jetta/Golf/Beetle and a 134ish HP engine with a tiptronic tranny for the Passat(!!!).
  • mkarpdmkarpd Member Posts: 4
    Is anyone experiencing a loss of power w/ their TDI. My mechanic claims this is from the exhaust gases being recycled into the intake manifold. He was able to rectify the problem of loss of power by cleaning the intake manifold. Is there anything I can do to prevent having this happen every 25K?
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    you do know we technically can't link to other forums, as it violates the townhall member agreement.
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    Yeah, that "other" site is a great location for TDI info. Shhh.

    You can prevent EGR clogging several ways. You can "disable" it either mechanically or electronically (with a VAG-COM - list of owners here - http://www20.brinkster.com/beowulf9/tdi/vagcom/). But both of those may technically be illegal where you live. ;)

    You can also run biodiesel. It will not only prevent clogging, it has been shown to CLEAN the EGR because of its degreasing properties. :)

    You also may have a dirty MAF. There are instructions for cleaning it at that other site we're not supposed to link to.
  • natescapenatescape Member Posts: 176
    To help clear the EGR, really crank up the engine every once in a while... it helps blow the junk right out.
  • sequencesequence Member Posts: 3
    Does anyone give the Turbo a minute to cool before turning off the engine? The salesperson at the dealership said to give it a minute if you traveled 50 miles or more.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    yes, but more like 30 seconds for me typically.

    Long trips (200+ miles), a few minutes
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    Is a bit of an odd way to put it. Actually the cool down period is based on turbo useage. If you come gliding in with normal driving there really isn't much of a need to cool down. If you've been driving it hard and demanding the turbo a lot then it needs to cool. Highway driving isn't exactly calling on the turbo very hard to require much of a cool down and it's likely adequately cooled by the time you get slowed down and ready to shut-off anyway.

    You could run a 1/2 mile of drag-racing and need a cool down more so than 50 miles on the highway.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    I somtimes wonder if people understand what a turbocharger is and what it is doing. How "hard" you think you are driving has VERY LITTLE to do with weather the turbocharger is under full boost.
    If the engine is above a certain RPM... the turbocharger is fully loaded. (boosting) Have you ever been in a car with a boost-gauge, fuel-pressure monitoring, and EGT (ExhaustGasTemperature) gauges?

    If you have been travelling at 65MPH for any length of time... the turbocharger has been at full boost. The MOST IMPORTANT time to allow for a cooldown is at "rest areas" where you have been most likely travelling for several hours.... but you come to a stop and want to turn off the engine. bad idea It is best to allow the engine to idle for at least a minute or more.

    30 seconds of oil-flow does very little to cool a heat-soaked turbocharger. The intent is to remove the heat from the center-bearing of the turbocharger. (between the turbine and the compressor) And NEVER turn off the engine while the turbocharger is spooled up.

    In fact, 30 seconds is barely enough to allow it to spool down... much less cool off.

    BTW... drag-racing is 1/4 mile. (not 1/2) I have been involved at several dragways. The 350HP 4-cylinder engines are amazing. (all because of turbochargers)
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    If you are that worried about the turbo, get a $200 turbo timer for it. That way, the car known when to shut the engine off.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Im not worried at all.... I understand the mechanics of the system and am educated enough to do it myself. It is part of 'owning' a vehicle with a turbocahrger.... ALWAYS allow for cooldown.

    I can use the $200 in the fuel tank for another years worth of fuel ;-)
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I run all that equipment in my Ram diesel and unless I'm pulling 15,000# or drag racing up a hill none of the guages get too worked up. If the TDI runs at full-boost at 65mph and the EGT's are threatening hot temps these cars are doomed to short lives in the US market. I'm not aware of anyone having turbo problems and most don't have a clue about cooling down. I think you're a bit worried about nothing.

    BTW... drag-racing is 1/4 mile. (not 1/2) I have been involved at several dragways. The 350HP 4-cylinder engines are amazing. (all because of turbochargers)

    Did I say anything about dragging at the track? And I thought we were talking about low-boost 90hp tdi's? These aren't set-up to run like your average high-performance gasser turbos.

    I'm glad you've at least been to a track, although the road courses are far more interesting. Try a factory porshe 914 at Sebring sometime. I've been around the block a time or two myself.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    the max boost pressure is about 20 psi(g).

    The turbo spools up about 1500 rpms.

    What sebring means, at highway driving, say 65 mph, the motor is turning about 2500 rpm...the turbo something much faster. Keep in mind, the ECU will control the boost through the vanes, so, while cruising at 65 mph, you may not be at full boost (at the turbo speed), the vanes may be set to for the exhaust to hit the turbine at a smaller angle, thus the turbo is spinning slower.

    Maintaining 65 mph requires less power than accelerating to 65 mph, thus less boost is required.
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Without getting too technical.... Once the turbocharger is supplying the full boost as called for by the boost controller (Engine Control Unit in the TDI)... the rest of the exhaust-gasses are simply bled away. (thru the Wastegate)

    So..... It does not really matter HOW HEAVY you are hammering on the throttle.... once the desired "full boost" quota is met... the rest of the exhaust is just routed around the trubocharger and out the tailpipe. (the turbocharger is not called upon to do any additional work.)

    Since it is DESIRABLE to achieve "full boost" as early as possible above idle, the TDI uses a VNT (Variable Nozzle Turbine) technology in the turbocharger to help achieve "full boost" ASAP.
    ('normal' turbochargers tend to need a lot of throttle before kicking in and spinning the tires uncontrollably..... not desirable for a family car)
     
    THUS.... My comment of the turbocharger being under "full boost" at highways speeds is 100% accurate. (BTW.... 20PSI is considered VERY HIGH for a gasser... most run about 6PSI)

    Here is an explanation of the VNT technology
    http://www.chuckiii.com/Reports/Physics/VNT_turbo.shtml
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    From what I have gathered, the VNT-15 in the A4 TDI peaks around 12psi stock. In normal cruising (75mph) you are sustaining 3-4psi and EGT's are around 550F. Doesn't matter how long you're running this speed the temps aren't going to go up to dangerous levels, which btw are around 1000F.

    At wide-open throttle (WOT) and max rpms (say running 100mph+) the boost will be higher and the EGT's can get up in the 850F range (about the max for a stock tdi). You could also hit those temps with just short WOT runs. At this point you would need to take 30 seconds or so and let the EGT's come down before shutting the vehicle off. A gas turbo will commonly hit 800F just cruising at 70mph, so cool downs are much more common and necessary. In normal highway driving, unless you slammed the brakes and shut the engine off, you're not going damage anything due to heat on the TDI.

    But if you wanna cool it down, that's fine. Last thing people need are more concerns that diesels are a pain to deal with. Sitting for a couple minutes waiting on a turbo that's not hot is a PITA and a waste of time.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Read my post again....I can't word anymore simpler short of pointing and grunting.

    Also have you driven a VW-Audi 1.8T with the KKK K03 turbo? Have you driven Volvos and Saabs with the LPT setup? I guess these types of setups are not normal.

    I may be off on peak boost...it's what I gathered from people who have a boost gauge on their A4 TDI's.

    the A3/B4 TDI's have wastegates, instead of VNT
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    This is exciting stuff. I am glad that this discussion is helping folks learn more about their TDI. I hope we do not have to start pointing and grunting ;-)

    Some corrections... the VNT and WASTEGATE are not mutually exclusive.
    ** ALL turbochargers have a wastegate (some internal, some external) to bleed off excessive exhaust flow.
    ** VNT is a specific TYPE of turbocharger design.(which also has a wastegate)

    ALSO: The EGT (Exhaust Gat Temperture) is NOT a direct measure of the temparture of the centere-bearing of the turbocharger. It is only an indirect measurement.

    If allowing a cooldown was not important... this discussion would never have been started due to a dealer telling a TDI owner to allow for a cooldown. The intent is to allow OIL FLOW thru the centere bearing at idle.... not to cool off the exhaust gasses.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    For the record, my dealer said nothing about cooling down the turbo after any kind of driving (I have a 1.8T). I always let it run 30-90 seconds if the car is going to sit parked for awhile though. Also, don't drive hard until the engine heats up, that's bad for the turbo too.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I'm guessing the 1.8T discusses a cool-down more directly than the TDI. IIRC, the TDI manual simply states a cool down is recommended after hard driving. I don't consider highway (reasonable speeds) hard driving.

    Watching EGT's are a good way to guage the turbo. Heat is heat and VW and Garrett both use this as ways of determining what's reasonable for the VNT-15. I'm of the opinion that with good synthetic oil (which is required in the TDI's) you're not going to do any damage by shutting down a turbo that has moderate internal temps. I would think VW would stress a cool-down all day long considering the extent of their powertrain warranty. There's also some mention on the Garrett site concerning idling too much (particularly after a hot run) is also bad on the turbo.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Does not discuss cool down periods.

    It really says after hard or extended driving, you let it idle a few minutes to prevent damage from heat buildup
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/VNT15-Turbo/vnt- 15-turbo.html

    The VNT15 does not have a wastegate. THe nozzles act as the wastegate, by way of directing the air to hit the turbine at a smaller angle.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Volkswagen/Audi in Massive Recall

    More than 850,000 Volkswagen and Audi vehicles --
    about 530,000 sedans and hatchbacks sold in the
    U.S. alone -- are being recalled for a faulty
    ignition coil. Volkswagen announced the recall last
    week, noting that the problem could cause spark
    plug failure and rough running, which is usually
    indicated by the vehicle's "Check Engine" light.
    Most of the cars affected carry the VW corporate
    1.8-liter turbo four (which includes the Audi A4
    and TT coupe; the VW Golf, GTI, Jetta, New Beetle
    and Passat), the 2.8-liter VR6 and the 3.0-liter
    V6 engines, as well as the VW Passat's W8.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    Too bad TDI's don't have spark plugs, let alone ignition coils
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    What I'm trying to figure out is why "fredvh" who drives a Camry and his dream car is a Lexus ES300, (straight from his profile, folks) is concerned with the coils!! on my tdi.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    To build up his post count?
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    ( 8u6hfd ) GREAT LINK! thanks for posting it.

     You are technically correct... I did not want to get into a technical discussion about the internals of a VNT turbocharger. The vanes are designed to allow the exhaust gasses to BYPASS the turbine--thus act as the wastegate. (you may have noticed that i glossed over the VNT technology above.... I did not want to put anyone to sleep ;-)

    I did find the 200,000 RPM to be interesting. This baby really spins.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Member Posts: 483
    Fred has cross-posted this in at least 4 different townhall discussions, so far ...

    ... and it's not even a recall - it is a voluntary complete replacement of *all* coils in all affected engines. So, no, you won't get free coils to put on your TDI dash for decoration...

    - D
  • acraftonacrafton Member Posts: 99
    Guys,
     Bear with me, I am interested in a TDI. Was looking at the Jetta Wagon but then heard that the Passat is coming later this year so may hold off. But I was running the numbers, and despite posters that talk of it being 'cheaper' to have a TDI, I am not so sure. If you factor in the initial cost of the TDI vs the 2.0, the average driver will take four years just to break even.

    From Carpoint.com:
    Jetta GLS 2.0 - $18,790
    Jetta GLS TDI - $19,970

    TDI costs $1180 more than a 2.0. Mileage at carpoint is 45 for TDI and 29 for 2.0. If we assume 12K miles/year and gas and diesel both at $1.79 (about what I have seen locally), we get:

    TDI gallons/year = 266, = $476.00 in fuel costs
    2.0 gallons/year = 413, = $739.00 in fuel costs

    Annual savings based on 12k miles = $263.00. To recoupe the initial $1180 cost of the TDI engine equals approx 4.25 years.

    Now, with this, I still want the diesel Passat, but more for longevity and convenience. I don't think the "save money" argument is really valid.

    Thoughts/comments?
    Adam
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    A few things:

    Unless you're planning to keep these until the wheels literally fall-off, the TDI will always be at least $1,000 more valuable than the 2.0L. Depending upon the particulars when you sell, it might be worth a lot more than that. So you don't really have to recoup the up-front cost.

    I probably wouldn't buy a TDI if I only drove 12K miles per year. Any cheap econo-box will cost you less in the long run. The Jetta (and more importatnly the Passat) TDI's are comfortable, nicely appointed, and fun drivers compared to anything that gets even close in mpg. Diesels are terrific at lasting a long time, but at 12k/year the car will fall apart long before the engine.

    Another concern is the unknown. IF fuel costs spike, typically diesel isn't as volatile and will likely be cheaper than gasoline. A TDI can run on just about anything if needed (biodiesel, cooking oil, etc).

    Until somebody introduces a true economy car with a small diesel, there will always be "cheaper" alternatives to a VW TDI.
  • acraftonacrafton Member Posts: 99
    Guys,
     Bear with me, I am interested in a TDI. Was looking at the Jetta Wagon but then heard that the Passat is coming later this year so may hold off. But I was running the numbers, and despite posters that talk of it being 'cheaper' to have a TDI, I am not so sure. If you factor in the initial cost of the TDI vs the 2.0, the average driver will take four years just to break even.

    From Carpoint.com:
    Jetta GLS 2.0 - $18,790
    Jetta GLS TDI - $19,970

    TDI costs $1180 more than a 2.0. Mileage at carpoint is 45 for TDI and 29 for 2.0. If we assume 12K miles/year and gas and diesel both at $1.79 (about what I have seen locally), we get:

    TDI gallons/year = 266, = $476.00 in fuel costs
    2.0 gallons/year = 413, = $739.00 in fuel costs

    Annual savings based on 12k miles = $263.00. To recoupe the initial $1180 cost of the TDI engine equals approx 4.25 years.

    Now, with this, I still want the diesel Passat, but more for longevity and convenience. I don't think the "save money" argument is really valid.

    Thoughts/comments?
    Adam
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    Other Plusses for TDI:
    *)TDI oil changes are 10,000 miles (less cost of materials and labor over time)
    *)TDI has NO ignition system. (there are no sparkplugs, wires, distributer...etc to replace)
    *)Some states cost to register a diesel is less than for gassers. (In Vermont, gas=$50/year diesel=$27/year )

    Additionally, I have to agree with the other appends. The VALUE of the diesel engine does not drop off as much so any calculations cannot ASSUME that the xtra initial cost of the engine needs to be 're-couped' in some way.

    EXAMPLES:

     Here in Vermont... a 4X4 pickup may cost about $1,000 more than a 2WD initially... that 1,000 is GAUARANTEED to be there when you sell it.... if the engine still runs. Trying to sell at 2WD pickup is fruitless... prospective buyers will just leave when they find out it is 2WD.

    In some warmer states... having AC is a necessity and helps sell the used vehicle. A vehicle without AC simply will not sell in those states. (In Vermont, I have only owned 1 vehicle with AC over the past 20+ years of driving)
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    For some of us, we drive 40,000 miles a year. Recooperating the initial expense would to realized quicker.

    Back to fuel....Biodiesel, which is derived from vegetable oil. If fuel prices are to continue to rise, we have the option of running alternative fuels without modifications to our cars. The gassers...right now the best is E85 (85% corn-derived Ethanol), with modifications.

    Fuel-cells? Well unfortunately, the current source of hydrogen for production fuel cell cars (Toyota FCH-V)is ultra-refined gasoline.
  • ddramddram Member Posts: 3
    Hello

    I would really like to purchase a new Bug or Jetta - the problems with these cars as mentioned on the Edmunds board and elsewhere have scared me... any idea if the the 2003 models have been made better? Also, it seems the gas engine is the one with most of the problems - is this more true?

    Do the electrical problems occur in the diesel as well??

    I had a diesel rabbit years ago and the only problems I had were headlights burning out (why they have still not fixed this I do not know) and it ate tires...

    I can't see the oil filter on the New Bug when you open the hood - can you change the oil yourself?? I live 30 minutes from the closest oil change and 45 minutes from a dealer... so, doing it myself would be cool...

    By comparison - My '01 Ram Diesel 4X4 is the best car/truck I have ever had... not one single issue! And when I go to the Dodge diesel boards - they do not mention problems - they only talk about how to make it even better...

    Thanks for your help!
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    The oil filter is a element type that's under the cover. Right up on top, piece of cake.

    I'm not aware of any big problems on the TDI's. The power-window issue applies, but that's surely fixed for '03. They've got updated parts for the older ones so I'm sure that's what they're putting in the new ones.

    I've got a '01 Ram 2500 QC 4X4 auto as well that's been great for 100k miles mainly towing 8,000#-11,000#. The only repair was front bearings and brake pads at 80K miles. Warranty covered the bearings, other than that just oil changes. I just bought an '03 HO Cummins six-speed 3500 because I'm pulling too much for my short-bed single-rear wheel. It's a monster compared to the '01.
  • chmeeeechmeeee Member Posts: 327
    The electrical problem (coil packs) occurs in the ignition system, which the TDI doesnt have, so you are all set. As for the oil filter, it is on top of the engine, but its a drop in cartridge, and right underneath the plastic engine cover.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I could really save $$ on fuel with the TDI, since I commute about 80 miles daily in my car. I should have thought about that when buying, instead of just being power hungry. Particularly now that 89 octane fuel (what I use in my 1.8T) is at 1.69 a gallon, and that's at the cheapest place! :(
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