XM & Sirius Satellite Radio

lobsenza

I don't see a problem. There are many direct wire solutions for many vehicles that give you RCA inputs into the factory stereo. I deal with these all the time and have not heard of any problems like you are talking about.

thatgirl

XM is awesome. You can get an FM modulator for around $150 and install it yourself. We recently went on a trip from TN to NH, through mountains, downtown Boston, etc and NEVER lost reception. We lost cell phone reception a lot, but never the XM. The weather and traffic was a real help for negotiating around the larger cities, too. The only problem we had was agreeing on a channel!

lobsenza

I would never go FM modulation if I could possibly avoid it. The direct wire connect gives you a much clearer signal. It is available for many vehicles and is a much better alternative.

guitarzan

The proprietary nature of automobile factory radios is the last bastion of 17th century thinking. If I were in charge of commerce, I would force the auto makers to offer every auto without a head unit. They force consumers to buy something that very well may not work for them.

A new head unit that interfaces with Sirius is on my Christmas list...

lobsenza

Most factory head units allow the connection of an external device. There are many adapters that interface into the OEM head units giving you RCA inputs, for instance.

robr2

But 99% of the population is willing to take what the manufacturer offers and isn't the least interested in having to choose a sound system.

guitarzan

Lobsenza-true-but one pays the premium markup for a factory or dealer installed radio, then pay for adapters and time on top of that.

Robr2-"willing" is only a guess when we look at the fact that people have never had a choice. (We may agree that it is not fair to have to pick a car based on the radio one likes, although technically one could.)

Here's a scenario-one buys a new car, then calls Crutchfield, and picks out a head unit with the features they most want. Then slides the unit in, and easily connects it themselves to the new "federally mandated universal speaker & power connections."

Under this circumstance, I submit that a huge number of people take advantage of the choice-they buy the feature they really want, XM or Sirius, a great remote control, superb CD tracking, or Supertuner FM reception, etc.

Each specialty in life should be kept to the experts. Why should a car maker dictate the sound system?

If I have a Sirius account, and I buy a new car with an XM or no satellite receiver, I feel duped. All that money, and I have to spend more money, and more effort, to get things to work together. If I owned a dealer today, I might make a deal with a local audio shop, allow my customers to pick one of several radios, and do installations in new cars, giving the customer credit for the factory radio.

Does everyone here think I am being extreme? That I'm sick of accepting the radio the automaker has specified?

stever

With that universal adapter setup, maybe even 8-tracks would come back!

I suspect that Robr2 was right - 99% don't care, or don't know enough to care, or their hearing is too shot from loud music in their glory days to be able to hear the high frequencies.

Steve, Host

robr2

Exactly - most people really don't care about the sound system or really don't know enough about the sound system to have to make a choice.

True, an audiophile will care and want to make all of those decisions. But any good audio shop can replace whatever the auto maker puts in with whatever you want - as long as you're willing to pay for it.

As for federally mandated connectors - sheesh let's toss another cost raising item in there. People P&M about paying for airbags and abs never mind connectors.

stever

And then there are guys like me who visit our audiophile friends and casually mention that whatever's playing sounds a bit clipped in the high end. An hour later they are still fiddling with the knobs and sliders. :-)

I'm sure the radio manufacturers who cater to the car dealers would say that universal connectors would promote theft, and that they are the only ones capable of working with the car manufacturers to design a system to fit with a particular interior.

I remember passing on a dealer installed radio in my Tercel in '82 because I knew I could get a better radio for less aftermarket. It was just a plain AM/FM/Cassette, and not too difficult to wire up (just two speakers, iirc).

Steve, Host

iusecad

XM Satellite Radio (XMSR ) says it is expanding its basic service package and that monthly subscription price for its basic service will increase to $12.95 beginning Apr. 2, 2005.

from a Business Week online article (Elan, Biogen Tumble, Feb 28) that for some reason I can't get the link to work...

stever

XM satellite radio raises prices (Seattle Post-Intelligencer)

$12.95 looks to be the new price.

Steve, Host

dklanecky

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mlm4

The new monthly rate will also include XM over the internet for all subscribers. Current subscribers can "lock-in" the $9.99 rate (for a year) by switching to the annual rate before the rate increase occurs.

blane

Yes, you can lock in the $9.99 monthly rate for XM Radio for one year. But, better still, you can lock in an XM monthly rate as low as $8.33. Here's their pricing Structure:

http://xmradio.com/serviceupdate/index.jsp

At least the new plan throws in Internet streaming that used to cost extra.

mlm4

That $8.33 is only if you fork out five years' worth of subscription fees before April 2. On April 2 and beyond, the five-year rate works out to $9.99 per month, the old monthly rate. All of these rate changes are only for the first radio; up to four additional radios are still $6.99 per month. My thinking is that if I could afford to pay for five years up front, then I could also easily afford an extra $36 per year not to. But the option is there.

midnightcowboy

I just checked with XMRADIO.COM web site. You have until April 02, 2005 to make multi-year commitments( 1-5 years) at a lower price.

I have a 3 month trial and I am trying to decide whther to extend or not. If I extened a multi-year at the lower price would be nice!

Thanks,

MidCow

mtngal

At the moment I have another year on my existing contract, and the increased price doesn't go into effect until the end of it. I'm thinking of paying for another multi-year package, but have a question that didn't seem to be covered in the literature they sent out. When does the new multi-year contract go into effect? Immediately or at the end of my existing contract?

dklanecky

I just got a snail mailed letter from XM that said what my new payment amount would be (on the family plan) and when it would be effective. I just made my quarterly payment on 3/6 so no change for me until 6/6. I'd guess that you new contract would start up at the end of your current one.

I wonder what would happen if your XM receiver failed to work say 1/2 way into your 5 year prepaid subscription? Is the subscription tied to the specific serial number on your existing receiver or could it be moved to a new one?

paaloo

Whats up ladies and gentleman...

I recently bought an Armada LE. Bose package is standard.

I am trying to find which aftermarket Sirius tuner will work with this. I dont like PnP tuners for the car... so i would like to get a module i can tuck under the seat somewhere.

Any advice would help. If you reply... please have a link to where you are basing your information from. OR if you have done this yourself, please include the make and model of the tuner.

THANKS!

dklanecky

I'm not sure what your asking. If by PnP you mean an FM modulated solution, then you would have lots of choices from all kinds of manufacturers, available at Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. But you say you don't want that?

If you want to use the factory radio controls to control your SAT radio, then you only have one choice (that I'm aware of) and that is the factory SAT tuner.

It's available at any Nissan or Infiniti dealer and is manufactured by Clarion (same as your Bose unit). It's a simple installation in general. Just plug the tuner into the cable coming from the the back of your head unit and add the antenna and your in business.

Check out Grubbs Nissan or Grubbs Infiniti web sites for more specific information and pretty descent pricing on the parts.

erickpl

I had a problem when I first got my XM. I 'activated' my first tuner, but it failed to connect. When I had it replaced, they just changed the receiver ID on the account and all was fine. No additional charges or such.

Granted it was a new setup, but I think if you explained it to them on the phone and that you wanted to swap units (or got a new car, etc) they'd work with you. Call and ask.

-Paul

mtngal

When I bought the Alpine head I already had a Roady. The person doing the install said that I wouldn't have any more charges, assuming that I was going to replace the Roady. I don't know if he was right or not, because I wanted to keep the Roady active - it's a nice addition to the Bose wave radio we listen to at work.

I'm thinking of buying a multi-year contract at the lower price - we've had XM for almost a year now and I can't imagine life without it any more...

fullerton

OK, I'm confused. I'm told that I can plug a Sirius tuner into the aux in on my cd head unit and receive Sirius radio. Why then does it matter if you buy a head unit that is "Sirius ready," as long as it has an aux in?

erickpl

Sirius ready means it can take the sirius signal and be able to display artist/title/channel information - more than just playing the selection.

-Paul

mtngal

I have limited experience, and only with XM, so I might not have this right. I thought that if you had a radio with an aux, it would work much like my Bose Wave radio here at work - it only plays the signal of whatever is generated by the outside sound source. That works great with the Roady - the Roady has its own controls to change channels and show the extra artist/title information.

Wouldn't a car radio with an aux work the same way with Sirius? You would have to have something else to control the channel selection, etc. - Sirius's equivalent of the Roady. You could not have a tuner hidden under the seat or something like that because you couldn't control the channels.

If you get a "Sirius Ready" (or XM ready) head unit, you could not only see the play list but you could control the channels etc. from the head unit. Do I have this right, or am I still out to lunch with this stuff?

fullerton

So, if I get the right Sirius tuner, will it show the artist/title, etc. since my head unit isn't "Sirius ready?" Thanks.

fullerton

I'm sorry, but what's a "Roady?"

pao

Roady is one of the delphi XM radio receivers....smaller than the SKYFI 1/2 but does the same function

erickpl

That would be correct. In my Jeep's setup, I went with the Alpine CDA-9827. It has Alpine's AiNet interface. My XM tuner module plugs into that. I can then see the artist/title/etc on my head unit, AND I can control the channel and display with the head unit.

If you use an Aux jack, you will have to use the plugged in tuner to display your Sirius information and to change channels. I have this kind of setup in my sedan, but with XM. I have the factory radio, but it has no aux input. I connected the Alpine RF modulator directly to the antenna leads for a good connection. The XM tuner runs into this. The external display unit is mounted in my cigarette ashtray since I don't smoke. I can see and control XM through there. My radio's display will only show the time or 88.7, which is the frequency the modulator works on. Here is a link to my pics in Webshots of it...

http://community.webshots.com/album/42273624PYEtQe

-Paul

paaloo

PnP tuners - Plug N Play tuners... usually powered with the 12v cig adapter....

Clarion is the answer i was looking for. do you have this? if so... where did you mount your tuner? antenna?

if you have pics that would be sweet.

thanks!

voicemailking

Just purchased a 2003 ES 300 private party...great vehicle etc..i want to add XM radio, but have heard the add ons work poorly plus it will void warranty...anyone have suggestions how and where this can be done and how expensive it would be?? I live in Fort Lauderdale Florida..Thanks in advance!!

STEVE

blane

voicemailking:

You have heard incorrectly that "the add ons work poorly plus it will void warranty". The add ons will work very well and should have no effect on your warranty. If you are concerned, your local Lexus dealer should be able to either do the installation or send you to their outside audio shop.

Check here for in-dash replacement head units:
http://xmradio.com/catalog/head_units.jsp

Check here for add-on tuners:
http://xmradio.com/catalog/product_category.jsp?type=Tuner

Any competent local XM installation outfit should be able to satisfy you at a reasonable price. Shop around. Check here for your ZIP Code:
http://xmradio.com/dealer_locator/retail_locator.jsp

greasykid1

Go to Best Buy. Should not cost over $200.

dklanecky

http://muranosat.avapl.org/index2.html

rjbrown99

Hi. I am a bit confused about the Sirius options and thought someone here could help. I own a 2005 S60 that came with a $65 options for "Sirius Satellite Radio Preparation". My understanding is that this was pre-wiring, the factory head unit supported Sirius, and all I would need is a tuner to make it work.

My dealer told me I could go anywhere and get the tuner. Okay, so I went to a local car audio store and they referred me back to the dealer for the factory tuner. Round and round we go.

I made an appointment with the dealer for an install today and got the price quote - $890.00 installed! They told me that the parts alone were in the $750 range. I thought that was completely absurd so I called a second dealer and they quoted me $1057 installed!! They broke it down as follows:

System - $599.50
Cable 1 - $ 53.94
Cable 2 - $ 53.94
Labor - $350.00
Total - $1,057.38

This seems unbelievable that it would cost $900-$1100 for a tuner and install when the car is already "pre wired" and the head unit supports Sirius.

I can't find anything else anywhere on the Internet about this. Lots of press releases that the factory will support it, but that's it. Has anyone else had experiences with the factory tuner and Sirius installs? How much should it cost? Should I just go elsewhere for an after-market tuner? If I did, is there any way to hook up an after-market tuner to the factory stereo?

I found an article about Chrysler and their dealer-installed Sirius kit. $300 installed plus subscription. That's about what I want to pay for it but it sure isn't worth $1000!

erickpl

http://www.sirius.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Sirius/CachedPage&c=ProductAsset&cid=- 1107450540311

some kind of external tuner that will work with your factory unit. You might be able to find the parts you mentioned from an online place...

In this respect, XM seemed to have more tuners avaialble. I personally went with an aftermarket head unit to avoid dealer BS (that and the fact my Jeep had a junker factory am/fm only radio ).

-Paul

fdthird

In my opinion, one of the key elements in getting Sirius or XM to be really successful is exposing consumers through OEM car audio systems. Kind of like GM gives you a year of On Star to "hook" you and then starts charging. In much the same way, I think any car that has a "Satellite Compatible" radio installed should allow you to preview the service for a set amount of time to expose as many people as possible. Once they have the hook into you, the monthly or yearly service charge would probably be a much easier sell.

Charging $700 for parts is, in my mind, one of the stupidest things these car manufacturers could ever do and it is so counterproductive to the needs of the satellite radio companies I am surprised they are not up in arms!

In my mind, this is highway robbery perpetrated by either the car companies, the audio suppliers, the dealers or all three! In June of last year my son bought a new Kenwood radio for his 2001 Focus from Crutchfield. He wanted to try Sirius radio and bought a Sirius Compatible Head Unit. To turn the regular AM/FM radio into an AM/FM/Sirius tuner required him to buy the Kenwood Sirius tuner, the Antenna, and the interconnecting cable. Total price??? $99. Total install time (and this included removing the Ford radio, wiring up the Kenwood, installing the Sirius antenna and tuner and then connecting it to the head unit)....2 hours!

Please tell me how what the Volvo (or Ford, Chrysler, Lexis, or anybody else) folks are doing is worth $1000??? What a crock!

erickpl

gives you 90 days if you opt for the XM... which I think is not too expensive an option...

-Paul

robr2

...announced it will be offering XM radios in all vehicles by the fall of 2006.

stickguy

too, has it standard on the TSX, TL and MDX, including the free trial period. Already working when you pick the car up.

I need to look into this for out new Odyssey. It's XM ready, and I would rather run it through the head unit (as opposed to using a roady), but don't want to pay a fortune for it.

To me, a nice solution would be a plug in connector so you can use a portable as the tuner, but the head unit as the controller. That way you can use the portable in a home docking station without having to pay for an additional subscription.

blane

When I leased my 2004 Accord Coupe, it came with a factory installed XM radio and three months of free service. I was hooked, subscribed, and love the service and choices.

mtngal

I don't think I would have ever gone over to XM if it hadn't been for my brother-in-law and GM including XM in a new truck he bought. He raved about it, so we decided to give it a try. So giving away an initial subscription is an EXCELLENT way of selling the product.

Perhaps satellite radio has become mainstream enough that the dealers can get away with this "highway robbery" and not scare off new subscribers. And those who are really interested will do the research (since it isn't quite as easy as just buying a new radio) and most likely find cheaper acceptable alternatives (I have a Roady for portability - second car, home, work - and an Alpine head that has an XM tuner built in for my daily driver).

utter

So is the opinion here that XM is preferred over Sirius?

robr2

XM has a bigger subscriber base but each has its owns benefits and drawbacks. Both are hoping to lock in certain manufacturers as OEM. I think so far they are even there.

I do like that VW/Audi are offering both. When I saw the drove the new Jetta last week, the demonstrator showed me where in the trunk the tuner plugged into. She pointed out that if I decided to change providers they could just replace the tuner. Of course at $375 for each tuner I hope I make the right decision the first time.

blane

Today's MarketWatch report:

"Shares of XM Satellite Radio jumped $2.41, or 8.6 percent, to $30.45 after the company said its radio units would be included as standard equipment on all Hyundai cars by 2007.

Analysts praised the deal, saying it could pressure other automakers into doing the same.

"Hyundai's plan to put XM in all of its vehicles we believe will increase pressure on all automakers to up satellite radio penetration of their cars," J.P. Morgan analyst Barton Crockett said in a note to clients. "We currently estimate that satellite radio is installed in 10 percent of new cars sold in 2005, rising to 47 percent by 2012."

XM already has deals with a number of automakers to offer its service as an option. The Hyundai pact -- the first to make the gear standard -- gives XM the potential to sign up 500,000 new car owners as subscribers by the end of 2007. XM currently has 3.2 million subscribers.

"We continue to expect XM to end the year with 5.5 million total subscribers," UBS Securities analyst Lucas Binder wrote in a note to clients. "The addition of Hyundai in 2006 will help drive the growth we expect in 06."

Meanwhile, Sirius Satellite announced a flurry of deals, but all involved its gear as optional equipment.

As a result, Sirius' gains were more muted, with the stock rising 14 cents, or 2.7 percent, to $5.42. The company announced deals with Mercedes-Benz, Ford's Jaguar and Land Rover.

For Mercedes, Sirius' equipment won't be offered free and is available only on the car maker's M-Class sport-utility vehicle. Mercedes will charge $500 for the option in a package that includes six months' worth of service.

The Sirius gear also will be offered as an option on four different types of Jaguars, including the X and S models, as well as the XJ sedan. Land Rover will offer Sirius as an option on its Range Rover and Range Rover Sport models.

J.P. Morgan's Crockett noted that this advances XM's already formidable lead in the market.

"XM at this point is notably outperforming Sirius in the auto distribution channel," he said. "We estimate Sirius' exclusives with Ford, DaimlerChrysler, BMW and Mitsubishi give it 35% of the industry. We also estimate that XM's automaker partners, before the Hyundai deal, had an approximate 3-year lead in production ramp up."

stever

Does XM still just have the two satellites in the sky? If Rock or Roll goes dark, SIRI shares will get even more volatile.

Steve, Host

blane

Steve:

XM-1 is named Rock
XM-2 is named Roll
XM-3 is named Rhythm - Launched February 28, 2005
XM-4 will be named Blues - Launch expected in 2006

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

XM Radio's Satellite Successfully Delivered to Orbit.

XM Satellite Radio announced the successful launch of its XM-3 satellite. Liftoff occurred on February 28 at 10:51 pm EST off the Sea Launch Odyssey Launch Platform in open waters of the Pacific Ocean on the equator. The XM-3 satellite was inserted into a geosynchronous transfer orbit, on its way to an orbital location for routine testing prior to placement in its final orbital position at 85 degrees West Longitude. A ground station in South Africa acquired the spacecraft's first signal an hour after liftoff, as planned.

Built by Boeing Satellite Systems, the XM-3 satellite is a Boeing 702 spacecraft, one of the most powerful satellites built today, designed to provide 18 kilowatts of total power at beginning of life. Like its sister spacecraft, XM-1 and XM-2 -- also launched by Sea Launch -- XM-3 will transmit more than 150 channels of digital-quality music, news, sports, talk, comedy and children's programming to subscribers nationwide.

http://www.xmradio.com/newsroom/screen/pr_2005_03_01.html

http://www.insideradio.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=234394&PT=Satellite+Radio

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/zenit3sl_launch_050301.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Modified from a posting on the XM411 website:

XM uses two (well, actually soon to be three with the new XM-3 satellite that was recently launched) satellites that are in geostationary orbit around the earth. This means that from the ground, it appears that they are not moving but rather staying in the same positions in the southern sky. In fact they are moving, but at the same speed that the earth is rotating; that's why they appear stationary. One benefit, among others, is that when aiming an antenna from a fixed location, you always know where the satellites are and where to point your antenna. SIRIUS users have problems with at-home antennas. (SIRIUS' satellites are moving targets due to their non-geostationary orbits. Sirius spacecraft are geosynchronous, they are not geostationary, they execute a asymmetrical figure 8 flight path relative to the earth with apogee at the top of the figure 8 over North America and perigee over South America)... XM has built an extensive array of ground repeaters in major metropolitan areas that rebroadcast the satellite signal.

tidester

they execute a asymmetrical figure 8 flight path relative to the earth...

Actually, they execute an elliptical flight path (per Newton and Kepler) but appear to trace out a figure eight in the sky relative to an observer at a fixed point on the rotating Earth.

Sorry for the interruption - we now resume our regularly scheduled broadcast ...! :-)

tidester, host

stever

Thanks Blane,

I must have, ahem, spaced out the February launch.

Steve, Host