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Honda Element

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Comments

  • AnakinAnakin Member Posts: 410
    1) You wanted an SUV to be fast?

    2) You will be able to get a LOADED Element for the price of a BASE XTerra or other V6 SUVs

    3) What is the big deal with off-road ability? Honda does not intend this vehicle to be a mud bogging truck. It's only intended to get the surfboards to the beach and the snowboards to the mountain.

    It sounds like you had expectations of things that Honda never promised.
  • tpat3tpat3 Member Posts: 119
    For the links to the Globe review. It was pretty glowing. I think Honda gets a free pass from reviewers just because. Still looking for more info from people who have actually driven it and used it the in the ways for which it is intended. The carconnection piece basically called the rear seats a waste of space. With those wide door openings seems like it ought to be perfect for hauling kids, even if you do have to open the front doors first.

    Ropedart -- was wondering whether the seats will turn around, as was indicated in the concept/X version. Bummer if they don't. As long as it's not a complet slug, I don't care about the performance numbers.

    It was good to hear the handling is first rate, at least in one reviewer's opinion.

    Anyone know of any more articles or reviews based on actual driving experience?

    Thanks.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Because Honda is so tight-lipped about new models, the company has a habit of allowing big expectations to be generated by the buying public, and then finds it difficult to deliver a product that actually lives up to those expectations. One needs only to look at the current Civic, Acura RSX, redesigned Accord, and now the Element for proof of such.

    While all of these vehicles are segment-leaders, they aren't everything that Honda buyers (myself included) might have expected.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No make is immune from v1.0 syndrome. The '99 Odyssey had some tranny failurs, some owners here in the Town Hall shared stories of their failurs and the $2-6 grand tab to replace them.

    Though some parts are shared with the CR-V, as noted before the engine is a bit different, and it'll be new to the Accord, too. So there is some risk.

    The new Accord is getting rave reviews by the press, himiler. Then again 240hp will do that.

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    People develop unrealistic expectations, make assumptions despite a general lack of information, they are crest-fallen when the product is a segment leader, but does not offer every single thing they desire...

    ...and this is Honda's fault?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm not sure I agree it's a segment leader, for that it would at least 200hp. Segment buster, maybe.

    The packaging (i.e. the stripper DX), at least, was Honda's decision. I still don't get why there is no LX, the traditional volume model. Maybe next model year?

    -juice
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Sorry. Not my choice of words. I was responding to Ropedart (discussing the Element) and Himiler (discussing all recent vehicles). I doubt that the Element will be anything other than a niche vehicle. It has it's place, but I think it will be a small place.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I knew that, but I had to call you on it. ;-)

    I agree with you in principle, concepts always have cool features that you just know will not make production.

    The rotating seat probably would not pass DOT standards for safety. Interestingly, I saw a Renault Escape minivan this weekend that was owned by a diplomat from Norway. Guess what? The seats rotated! Very neat. Mom could spin around to change a diaper.

    It was quirky (even to this Subaru owner!) but in a cool way. The 5 rear seats could be configured on 5 different tracks, and yes in either direction. There must be tons of different configurations possible, but he showed me just a few.

    So no surprise the Element's seats don't rotate. Reviews no longer mention a hose-out interior, so I wonder if that feature is for real or not.

    -juice
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    ...and this is Honda's fault?

    Does Honda advertise? :-)

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • silverk21silverk21 Member Posts: 65
    Here is a link for dimensions of the Element. BTW, Hondanews.com is a great resource for making comparisons. I don't know how the Y gen (is that what they are calling them?) is going to respond to the Element, but this GenXer would love to have one as a second vehicle. Unfortunately the DX is so stripped down (no a/c, not where I live)and the EX makes it a little unafordable. I agree that an LX model would be nice. Especially considering the target (age) market Honda is aiming at.


    http://www.hondanews.com/Forms/honda/Element/seetext?2002082659245

  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    The dealer can always install A/C into a DX.

    Don't know, however, if they'll be motivated to do so. Especially if they can persuade you to move to the more expensive EX model just because of the A/C.

    I would love to have one as a second vehicle myself.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Are you kidding? A Honda dealer that won't put in an A/C system? Not only will they make $$ on the sale of the vehicle, but they dig you on the A/C, as well. There's greater potential for raw profit on a DX with dealer A/C than on the EX model.

    It's a win-win for the dealer. They like cash, and they're plenty motivated.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Of course they'll put in an A/C system. But I think their initial move would be to coax you into getting an EX. Then if you're still resilient, they'll settle for a DX and offer A/C installation.

    I remember when I was shopping for my Civic, the dealer kept urging me to spend 1.5 grand more for an LX Accord. I kept telling him we already had an Accord!
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Tidester - No ads for the Element.
  • ropedartropedart Member Posts: 163
    I am trying to look at the situation from a GenY point of view(ultimately resale value). If you are an active GenY guy sitting around talking to other GenY guys about cars and trucks the discussion will come around as to who has the most capable vehicle. Who has more power and who can really go offroad. A lot vehicles can beat the Element at that.

    But if your not in the demographic you don't care. This is the situation Honda does not want to be in. The wrong demographic buys this car. Middle aged folk using them for utility. Suddenly a cool car becomes uncool. They don't buy-> it has a stigma. They don't buy into Honda. They actually have to find a way of preventing older people from buying the Element at least at first.

    I don't want a really fast Honda. I want decent passing and merging power. I would trade top end speed for acceleration any day. I am not in the demographic. LOL
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    No ads for the Element.

    Thanks! That explains why I haven't seen any!

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
  • AnakinAnakin Member Posts: 410
    Fron what I have seen of GenY, they seem to prefer loud stereos and big wings to real performance anyway.

    ;^)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    They like to look fast and be "stylish" rather than actually go fast.

    :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've seen aftermarket shops that install A/C in Florida, and they charged $800 or so. Dealers up here in DC used to charge $1800 for A/C on the old Civic DX. Huge, massive profit margins there, unless it's a factory option with an MSRP set by Honda.

    As far as what young folks want, I'm not convinced they want real speed either. Big domestic V8 coupes are not even on their radar. They want small, efficient engines, not necessarily quick, but as least not dog-slow.

    I remember being 17 and putting $3 of gas in at a time. Now it's probably $5 or $10, but still, they want to go a long way on those few bucks.

    -juice
  • tpat3tpat3 Member Posts: 119
    For the link with specs.

    Ropedart, I doubt Honda really cares who buys the element. They'll still target Gen Y in advertising and events but won't complain if old goats like buy 'em. It's all a ploy anyway to get new customers to pay attention to the Honda brand. Worked like a charm for VW.
  • bowkebowke Member Posts: 169
    ...honda actually sets the price of the a/c system at $1695 MSRP...dealer cost on the system is $1410...these prices include installation...

    you can save money by going aftermarket, or you can get the factory system and keep it under warranty...up tp you.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, that's a big mistake. They really should've made it a stand-alone, factory installed option. Consumers are going to gawk at that price, even at invoice it's about twice what you'd expect to pay.

    -juice
  • chris777chris777 Member Posts: 126
    the price of a dx 2wd with automatic and air added with $460 destination charge included

    $19,260 the price of an LX cr-v 2wd including destination

    a grand "savings" of a whopping $305

    does any one else see my point that if honda wants to sell the "bargain" dx to those gen y'ers

    it would be in their best interest to hopefully change the pricing estimates since they are preliminary but think about this thats not including adding a radio plus speakers to a dx

    not to mention saying you could get an after market cruise for 250 -300 if you want that option as many of us do

    food for thought
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Well if you live in the Northeast, good luck trying to find a 2wd LX CR-V. The dealer I spoke with only had 4wd versions of both CR-V models.
  • rerenov8rrerenov8r Member Posts: 380
    Unless you are Las Vegas or LosAngles the dealer is probably doing you a favor by not making too many 2WD CR-Vs available...

    Now, if you want one and they won't order it, that's another story.
  • themaxxthemaxx Member Posts: 2
    Does anyone know the REAL ship date I have one on "order" and can not wait to receive it.
  • chris777chris777 Member Posts: 126
    thats interesting what you say about 4wd in your areas I've been seeing about 90% 2wd 10% ex

    I honestly can't remember seeing a 4wd lx
    well let me rephrase that an automatic 4wd lx
    I have seen a couple of 5 speeds

    I had begun to wonder if their was something to the rumor waaay back about the element debuting in a 2wd only because of the lack of 4 wd crvs that I've seen in my area (Atlanta)
  • ropedartropedart Member Posts: 163
    You should wait till mid year change overs before getting a first year car. In the case of the Element it is apparently May 2003 when the 5sp is ready. The car should be marked 5/03. Ohio has to learn how to make these things properly. "I thought I told you can't close that rear door without opening the front door. How are we going to hide that damage now!" or "Stop scratching that cladding its not being painted-bring it to the line now!"
  • lfikelfike Member Posts: 38
    I liked that one. I'm 52 and love cars....read about them everyday that I can.
    My wife and I have pretty much made up our minds to buy this vehicle even though we are older people. The Element is exactly the vehicle we were looking for. I love to garden...buy antiques...camp....pretty much everything this little bugger was intended to do.
    It looks kinda like a little mini Hummer without the expense of repairs, gas etc.
    I've also thought it might be a great vehicle to carry my sister-in-law in since she is in a wheel chair....couple ramps on the back and have the tie-downs installed and off we go!
    Looking to put a deposit on a Ex this next weekend. Only have to decide on the color....how bout some help with that one here? Black?
    Gotta love those Honda products!
  • aquaswimmeraquaswimmer Member Posts: 30
    I agree Rope, I plan on waiting till may to get the 5spd AWD and I am hoping that will buy a little more time to iron out bugs.

    As for colors....has anyone seen a pic of the Shoreline Mist color? I think hondanews has every color but that one..they have a black DX, Red/orange EX, Green EX, Silver EX..but no shoreline

    Is it some sort of blue? Thanks
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    "thats interesting what you say about 4wd in your areas I've been seeing about 90% 2wd 10% ex"

    Are we talking CR-Vs, here? If so, are you assuming that the EX has RT4WD and the LX does not? The LX AWD model is Honda's biggest seller.
  • chris777chris777 Member Posts: 126
    "Are we talking CR-Vs, here? If so, are you assuming that the EX has RT4WD and the LX does not? The LX AWD model is Honda's biggest seller."

    thats exactly what im saying i paid a visit to the dealer today to take a look at the 03 accord
    and they had 3 lx 2wd and 1 ex 4wd. right now the crv is basically offered in 5 levels ,2wd lx
    and both 5spd and automatic lx and ex
    what im saying and the dealer i taled to today confirmed it (at least at their dealership) he said he hasnt even seen a 4wd lx yet

    in the southeast atlanta area we seem to be getting mostly lx's and a few choice ex's
    it just had me wondering about the rumor way back about a possible shortage of 4wd units thats all
  • chris777chris777 Member Posts: 126
    I forgot to mention the new civic book is out

    galapogos green still looks almost like an olive derivative

    and shoreline mist looks extremely close to titanium it cant be more than a shade off
  • ropedartropedart Member Posts: 163
    20% GenY; 80% Goats: The Goatmobile. LOL
  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    ropedart,

    Then call me a GOAT, because I love the Goatmobile! :)
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_042717


    A few more pics of the Element, nothing new.


    Still amazes me how big the vehicle appears and I doubt that model is a midget.

  • chris777chris777 Member Posts: 126
    I can't get over it being 8 inches shorter than a civic coupe

    from those new picks. it kind of makes you wonder if they will offer sport packages
    the surfer
    the biker
    the hiker..........
  • ropedartropedart Member Posts: 163
    Its been a while for me but have you checked the price of accessories for the Pilot or CRV or Element. Just for fun at CollegeHills Honda I loaded a shopping cart and ended up with over $5K worth of stuff. Of course I didn't need a $16 ashtray. Smokers sure get hit hard. This is where Honda and the dealer must make a lot of money. No package deals I can see. Lookout!
  • aquaswimmeraquaswimmer Member Posts: 30
    Well, I put a deposit down on an Element and I'm the first to do so at my local dealership so I may conceivably be the first person in west Los Angeles to get one but the markup... Ouch!

    The Sales manager told me that the expected markup for Elements at his dealership, (Honda of Santa Monica) would be $3500. For comparison, about the same markup on Pilot, $2000 for '03 Accords, $300-400 on CR-V's at this dealer.

    Yikes, $25k is at or close to what one will probably pay for a used MDX or maybe even a Pilot by early 2003.

    It would be depressing to pay such a markup on a new car when just about every other marque is offering very good terms and incentives but I suppose Honda quality comes at a premium.

    I'm going to see about other dealers in greater Los Angeles but that high markup has sort of bummed me out.

    I guess Honda is expecting rather brisk sales of the Element if the highly confident markup is any indication. Well, we will see at the release.
  • AnakinAnakin Member Posts: 410
    You're not going to actually pay that markup are you?
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Bend over!

    Put the $3500 in the bank for a year and buy a leftover '03 Element or a new '04 next Fall.

    You're welcome.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Pretty good 2-page spread. They say it's much more fun to drive than the CR-V (imagine that).


    pics at http://autoweek.com

  • aquaswimmeraquaswimmer Member Posts: 30
    No, I don't plan on paying that markup. There are too many other good choices available in the $25k range, both new and used. Mostly used.

    Himiler's suggestion is a good one. A little patience and a little wait until the hype dies down and I'm sure the price will be more reasonable. Assuming there is hype of course.

    In the unlikely event that the Element debut is a flop perhaps we can all get one at a really good price.

    Already I have talked to another dealership that claims to be willing to sell at a lower markup in December. This dealership is quoting $2000-$2500 markup. Still not good but better.
  • aquaswimmeraquaswimmer Member Posts: 30
    I agree. I'll wait till the price is list or thereabouts or I'll look elsewhere.

    The Element looks like a great package but something like, for example, a 2000 4Runner with neoprene seat covers would probably do the job as well. With the new 4Runner about to to be released the price on the older style should soften at least a little. Should not be more than $20-23K.

    Still would rather have the Element if it can be had at list or close. It's practically perfect for my needs.

    Nissan is run by a communist? This is disconcerting since I am basically in a Nissan now by way of Infiniti. Too bad, there goes the 2001 QX4 out the window as an option. :)
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Is it just me or does the Element pic from autoweek.com seem as if it had lighter colored cladding?
  • AnakinAnakin Member Posts: 410
    Huh?
  • rerenov8rrerenov8r Member Posts: 380
    ... in the "Incnsiderate Buyers" thread debating why AHMC is so into "constrained supply marketing". I think it relavent rerenov8r "Inconsiderate Buyers" Sep 13, 2002 11:55am

    I see the same thing developing with the Element. No surprise.
  • chris777chris777 Member Posts: 126
    look up www.nissan.com and you will see exactly why I no longer have a shred of respect for that company (nissan AUTOMOTIVE) and their business practices

    back to element news per the autoweek article we finnaly have some sort of release date of Dec 16
  • rerenov8rrerenov8r Member Posts: 380
    Did you want to link to that site?


    I don't understand? Is there something wrong with their golf towels? http://www.nissan.com/other_stuff.htm


    Did you want us to look at nissanusa or nissan-global? Both seem more automotive related...


    What's up?

  • jpfkkjpfkk Member Posts: 43
    Gang,


    While I am not sure who is a communist and who isn't (I thought we had that sorted out in the 50's...), I am sure that there is a terrific resource with everything you could ever need to know about the Honda Element--it is at the Honda Press Web site.


    Here is the URL:

    http://www.hondanews.com/forms/honda/element/index.html


    Honda does a great job briefing the press and this Web site has press releases, pricing, features, technical specs and a gallery of 170 photos of the Element in multiple colors--inside and out.


    I wanted to pass this along in case anyone had not provided this URL earlier.

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