I have heard that Honda had trouble getting Japanese parts to the Ohio plant because of the port strike. I'd have to assume they are pushing that cost onto the consumer without raising the MSRP past the target numbers.
How did Honda get 190 HP out of a 2.4 L engine? Tuning. Actually, there are two version of the same being offered in Japanese Accord right now. With AWD, the engine is rated at 190 HP/168 lb.-ft (available in wagon only), and with FWD, it is rated at 200 HP/172 lb.-ft (available in sedan and wagon). As a matter of fact, this is the only version of the K24A being sold in Japan.
All versions of K24A make peak torque at same rpm (4500 rpm) except in CRV (at 3600 rpm). The 200 HP K24A runs higher compression (10.0:1 like Accord/Odyssey V6s) and utilizes VTEC at intake as well as at the exhaust. More torque and broader torque curve resulted in the additional horses. This engine may be reserved for launch in America in TSX.
You sure seem to know a lot about a car that hasn't even been released yet!
Your gloomy predictions of failure are surprising given the initial response to the car.
Of course, you won't buy one...most people won't.
Like any car they aren't for everyone.
I see another home run with everything being presold before they arrive.
Of course, I guess I could be wrong.
And, yeah...it does tick some people off when they go to a car show and can't sit in a car. Still, I wonder if these same people would prefer to simply not have a car there at all?
Two years ago, at the Seattle show, the S-2000 we had on display got trashed! It's amazing to watch as people too big to fit, climb in, slam the doors, and force the hoods down.
Most people are respectful and gentle with the cars but others show no respect.
There certainly will be QC issues with this car based on what I saw sitting inside it. Honda hit its pricing by outsourcing the interior bits to Fisher Price. Mechanically it might be fine, but even if what I saw was preproduction, the inside will not hold up regular daily use, never mind the supposed intended use of hauling stuff. People who buy it because of the hype will grow weary of the interior's inherent cheapness and the gymnastics required to let passengers out of the rear or to move the rear seats out of the way. Honda deserves a lot of credit for going after a new market with an existing platform, but I believe the poor quality of the Element, at least the inside, will come back to haunt them. Just my opinion:(
You guys may want to wait until the production cars from the factory make it to the dealerships. I work for a company that makes show vehicles, and often times the vehicles shown at autoshows are full of preproduction "mock-up" parts. They are ment to look like the eventual production parts, but usually haven't been fully validated to quality specifications. This is why vehicles are often for display only. You can see what the production vehicle will look like at least, but if you sat in it and started cranking on all the components you would be very disappointed. People obviously don't understand where show vehicles come from, and how delicate they may be. Roping them off prevents people from writing a model off a vehicle before it even hits the dealerships.
"People who buy ...grow weary of ...the gymnastics required to let passengers out of the rear or to move the rear seats out of the way"
was getting in and out of the rear seating on the element similar to a coupe?
I realize it wont be like a 4 door, and unfortunately honda attached the seat belts to the doors instead of the seats,
are their any vehicles out now you would compare ease (or lack of) entry in the element to tpat3?
also Iselhondas i take it you are a sales person,
how much is it going to hike the dx elements price up to add air conditioning, and is their a possible dealer installed cruse control or will we have to go ex or aftermarket to get cruse?
Good point, Chris, they should do seats like GM has for its full size trucks, with integrated seat belts. Chrysler does it on their Sebring convertible, too.
If they can engineer it, I'm sure Honda could.
I bet A/C is $1800 and cruise is $400 or so. It may vary by dealer.
At this point, I don't have the answers. I know there will be no LX model, only DX and EX's.
I'll assume no A/C in the DX's but I don't know that for sure.
People have to remember this is a limited production nitch market car. It will not please the masses and will appeal to a narrow band of folks. Target market is males in their 20's from what I hear.
No 5 speeds with 4WD which will no doubt, bother a small percentage of shoppers.
Interesting information about show cars, Krunky.I had no idea the cars on the floor might not come from the manufacturer so I'll back off on my whining about the interior. Unfortunately for me, the lack of cargo space pretty much removes the Element from my list, but maybe not so much of an issue for folks who won't need to use the rear seats very often.
Chris777, the rear seat egress isn't so much an issue for rear seat passengers as for those in front. The opening is enormous even with the front seats all the way back. I was referring to the fact that the front passengers must unlatch their seat belts and open their doors before the folks in back can get out. Seems like a real pain in the neck. Sorry for the confusion.
I agree. If it were just a matter of opening the front doors, it would be no biggie. However, the added step of taking off the seat belts is one step too many.
I've been expecting the interior to be cheap. You don't get 3,500 lbs of car for under $20K without some corners being cut. However, I would expect it to be better assembled than the show car.
Rated LEV-II. Based on JDM Honda website, it also meets Fuel Economy standard for year 2010 (whatever that means). Like our V6, this version of K24A employs Drive-By-Wire (another difference from our version of the K24A).
Ah. Thanks. The reference to 2010 has to do with gov't regulations in Japan. I've forgotten the name for them, but in 2010 legal emissions will drop significantly. Their LEV standard is different than the LEV ranking we have here. But I think the 2010 standards are lower than anything we have proposed. I read about it back when the 2002 CR-V was in the rumor stages.
one of my biggest questions and I forgot to ask now that people have actually sat in an element
one of the main readons I was even interested in the element was that the gear shift was placed on the lower dash rather than having one of those annoying consoles that I bang my knee on
how does the element compare to the crv is their comparable clearance for leg room?
the crv is one of the few vehicles ive been in that has enough clearance that I dont bang my leg while driving and I was wondering how element comlared
OK just kidding. Isell, I never said the Element was going to be a failure. In fact, in its niche it will do OK. Everybody should realize the auto industry is a fashion industry. Tail fins, air dams, spoilers, bush bars, side steps, fog lights, hood deflectors, SUVs are all about fashion. Believe me people will be trading them in for CRVs or Pilots or Odysseys or Latitudes in no time. The vehicles they should have bought in the first place.
BTW this is forum not a fan club. I'm venting. Hssss.....
I'm telling you, if Chrylser and GM can do a built-into-the-seat seatbelt, Honda can and should. Aren't they known for elegant solutions? They invented the magic 3rd row seat.
...are one of my biggest issues, too. My right leg bangs into them in practically every car, even good-sized cars like Volvo. The Element does have a center console even though the shifter is mounted high. Not really on the dash, just high on the console. It's actually a nice position and the console isn't too intrusive but my leg still hit it. CR-V wasn't too bad either.
tpat3 you bang your knee on the element, what about the crv? or the oddy,
when I 1st saw matrix I hoped so much and they were dashed by like 4 or 5 inches. oh well
if I could only build my own car
speaking of which
"if Chrylser and GM can do a built-into-the-seat seat belt, Honda can and should"
they did on model x (MD-X)
I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to transfer them on the doors?
I i also personally miss the bench seats out of mod x we could have potentaly sat 6 in her
dont get me wrong I approve of what they did in safety factors those 1 pillar benches didn't look too stable (or comfortable)
I especially like the rear seats flip and fold (lifted from step wagon) better than mod x's rear seats .
I just cant help thinking how much sweeter the truck would be if they made a few adjustments to make 3 passenger rear seating a possibility by placing cup holders in the suicide doors
and a specially contoured and bolstered front bench with slight modifications to the original mod x dash (taking where the shifter dipped and moving it all the way upon the dash somewhere.
I'd be willing to pay an extra 500- 1000 for a six seater element, with front bench integrated belts,door mounted cup holders, extra padded sides and a flap possibly to make the rear bench more comfortable
{I noticed a few weeks ago while debating on the civic that the sides of the rear bench around where the seats fold down is basically the rear wheel wells covered with minor padding and seat cloth. {it is perfectly contoured though i might add i would have missed it if i hadn't bopped my elbow on it })
but the same concept could have been used on elements rear bench a slight tweak and it's a 3 seater
man I almost want to photochop something if I knew how to post it on here
focus groups and committees always seem like cool brains storming sessions with all sorts of ideas but not every idea deserves reality (aztek)
I'd like to know how many folks directly involved in the r & d will actually end up driving an element daily? (and how quickly they will realize they need to make several tweaks in the design)
it looks good in photos concept ect, but its like several people have pointed out those seat belts are going to be a problem
if they wouldn't be trouble why is it the domestic extended cabs have already moved them to the seat frames?
obviously somebody complained
I saw a trailblazer brochure and the drivers and front passenger both have seat mounted belts."
the only reason other than poor design I can think of is seat strength
that article someone posted a link to a couple of weeks back basically said honda had some of the weakest seat backs on the market. claiming the 5 star crash protection was enough
Is that right? The model X had seatbelts built into the seat? If so, major miss from concept to production. Build stronger seats if they're needed. M-B coupes have them and are among the safest cars on the road.
You can host pics for free on ImageStation.com.
Subaru also missed on several items from the ST-X concept to the Baja production model - no supercharged engine, quarter-sized mid-gate instead of the concept full mid-gate a-la Avalance, and no low range gearing.
They projected 2000 sales per month but it's more like 800, so customers notice that stuff and aren't buying.
ateixeira, you can also post pics for free on HondaElement.org You can then use html to post pics here on Edmunds by using the url of the pic that is hosted over there For example, here's a pic that digiBoy created and posted over there
i keep wondering how cavernous the element would have been, if it were the same length as the crv
DOCT what state are you in?
I read a review in one of the new car buying guides speaking of poor power, wind noise,and possibly confirming my concerns with visibility complaining that the front pillar obscured turning vision and the rear pillars blocked some rear visibility
I took a quick look at a baja the other night, its quite literally a car without a trunk lid.
Talk about a fad vehicle, about the only use the "bed" would have is for hauling leaky trash bags
oh btw its just under a month untill the "official " release date on the ment
Yeah, and keep in mind that the Baja, for instance, is longer than the Outback, not shorter. So potentially the Element Crew Cab could be cavernous.
Baja really needs the bed extender option. It's meant for hauling bags of mulch, not sheets of plywood. Subaru is marketing them at flower shows.
I think they sort of missed when they put perforated leather, alloys, and a moonroof in a small utility crew cab. The price with all that stuff is too close the V6 Crew Cabs that can handle heavier duty. Delete those three and it could sell for under $20k street price.
I was driving home from work on I 270 in Dublin OH & saw a blue Element with manufacturers plates. It didn't look as goofy in person as it does in pictures, but it still is quite odd. It is one tall box though. I wonder if Honda really screwed up on this one. Maybe one day we'll see it in the museum of goofy cars along with the Aztec & BMW Z4.:-)
Honda Canada announced prices for the Element, strange thing is they do not refer to the different trim levels as DX, EX, but rather Element, and Element Y Package. Price starts at 23,900 Canadian (approx $15,220.00 USD based on current exchange) and includes a/c.
gatorgred - Thanks for the link. Funny how the host stands taller than the Element in the video, whereas the press release pics of the Element show the car towering over that surfer dude.
can someone explain the logic of factory air in the CANADIAN "base" element (us dx) ?
along with am/fm cd and all for $1000 less than a us dx with no air or radio (or speakers)... kinda makes you wonder about this "shortage" of American rt4wd units
I wonder if the Canadian element "Y "package will include a free surfboard and water ski attachments
other thoughts on design. my "four door" ranger has this suicide rear door set up. i find this an excellent design for getting into, and materials in, the extended cab. the doors close with both upper and lower large locks and are quite secure you also have to open the front door to open the rear. not a problem, even in tight parking spaces. this will work great and is a good decision for what the element is targeted to be.
there are plenty of mini vans, suv and cars for people who will have complaints about element's style. can we please have a vehicle that is for snowboarding-type men who feel that ever other AWD drive has been taken over by women, moms, family men, and gomers that is not a pickup? I think with my feeling on this topic I better buy one today before i see one elemnent parked at the crafts store, nursing home, girls soccer practice or delta-delta-delta sorority house.....just a free form [non-permissible content removed] session ..thank you for you time.
p.s i think element will be great...bring 'em on!!!
Selling the same cars for cheaper in Canada seems pretty common practice, even if the car is made in the U.S. The reasoning presumably is that Canadians are tighter with a $. It is not illegal for a US citizen to buy a new car in Canada and import it (assuming it passes US safety/pollution regulations - which most do) but some manufacturers make it difficult (like Honda) by voiding the warranty and taking away the dealership, and some don't (like Mazda). There's been a few Edmund's discussions on this and I've considered this route when the price differential makes it worthwhile.
Anyone know what the drag coefficient of this box is? Seems like it could have picked up a few MPG with a wedgey front.
That's strange designations. Usually Canada gets the same DX,LX,EX groups. Someone in Honda Canada must've pointed out the unfairness of no AC in the DX. To hide it they went in another direction for Canada. "Y" Ironically most Canadians don't need AC (except for SoOnt). But half of the United States is below the snow belt and very hot.
IMO Honda wanted the LX but did not have time. IMO the models will have no markings until they can straighten out the model lineup.
On pricing I still see the decent LX CRV is cheaper than a loaded Y Element. tsk tsk
Canadians are cheap because we pay lots of taxes on top of the selling price. They don't put up much with markups on Hondas. They walk or wait or buy used. There is always some stock around. No big rush on Hondas. It only seems to me that big markups and demand in the states occur in "rich" areas like California or where people have too much money.
An Element was on hand at the San Antonio, TX car show this weekend. I have to say, I'm impressed with many things about this Honda. First, the size is waaay bigger than any of the pictures could portray. Seating is very good for front and rear passengers. The configurations of the back seats are cool but I'm not sure if I'd use them any more than just fold up for more space. The clamshell doors are neat and really make the Element seem even larger. The front of the vehicle which I thought looked a little toy-like in the images appear much more truck-like and menacing.
Overall, I really liked what I saw of the Element. The dealers are expected to get them by Dec. 12 here in S.A. so I'll be sure to drop by for test drive.
It looks good in general. The extreme styling came off much better than the Pontiac Aztek. A little like a toy Hummer. The things that don't look good are the fact that someone said that if you have rear passengers, there is no room behind the rear seat for much of anything, so it has less useful room than a midsized sedan with a trunk unless you fold or remove the rear seats. So, this is not the kind of vehicle you can take to pick up a couple friends at the airport. Where is their luggage going to go? You can get a roof rack and carry more, but you could do that with a Buick Century. I noticed it has a port to plug in an M3 player and video games, but I don't see any mention of a 110V standard AC jack for that video game player like the Vibe and Matrix have. It is inconvenient to have to unbuckle the seatbelts to allow passengers into the rear seat after the front passenger are already seated and buckled up, but this would not come up often in my case. Gas mileage is worse than a 240HP V6 Accord. I will look at it anyway to see if the seats are comfortable enough for an everyday car. They are planning on making only 50,000 and can increase to 70,000 per year if sales justify it. That is still relatively low production, so I don't think they will have too much trouble selling that small amount. Maybe I'll go and look at the PT/GT Cruiser now that it is no longer the hot new thing selling at over MSRP.
Comments
The $16-21k estimate was accurate, it just didn't include freight.
No 4WD 5 speeds for now, I guess. But an EX auto is $1450 cheaper than the same CR-V. That's significant IMO.
I think a college grad, 22 years old, can afford a $400 payment if he's employed. That's about what a 5 year loan would cost.
-juice
-juice
Escape is made in Kansas City, Mo.
-juice
Tuning. Actually, there are two version of the same being offered in Japanese Accord right now. With AWD, the engine is rated at 190 HP/168 lb.-ft (available in wagon only), and with FWD, it is rated at 200 HP/172 lb.-ft (available in sedan and wagon). As a matter of fact, this is the only version of the K24A being sold in Japan.
All versions of K24A make peak torque at same rpm (4500 rpm) except in CRV (at 3600 rpm). The 200 HP K24A runs higher compression (10.0:1 like Accord/Odyssey V6s) and utilizes VTEC at intake as well as at the exhaust. More torque and broader torque curve resulted in the additional horses. This engine may be reserved for launch in America in TSX.
Your gloomy predictions of failure are surprising given the initial response to the car.
Of course, you won't buy one...most people won't.
Like any car they aren't for everyone.
I see another home run with everything being presold before they arrive.
Of course, I guess I could be wrong.
And, yeah...it does tick some people off when they go to a car show and can't sit in a car. Still, I wonder if these same people would prefer to simply not have a car there at all?
Two years ago, at the Seattle show, the S-2000 we had on display got trashed! It's amazing to watch as people too big to fit, climb in, slam the doors, and force the hoods down.
Most people are respectful and gentle with the cars but others show no respect.
People who buy it because of the hype will grow weary of the interior's inherent cheapness and the gymnastics required to let passengers out of the rear or to move the rear seats out of the way. Honda deserves a lot of credit for going after a new market with an existing platform, but I believe the poor quality of the Element, at least the inside, will come back to haunt them. Just my opinion:(
But it is nice to try something on for size. Lots of times I can narrow down my list just by sitting in them.
-juice
I work for a company that makes show vehicles, and often times the vehicles shown at autoshows are full of preproduction "mock-up" parts. They are ment to look like the eventual production parts, but usually haven't been fully validated to quality specifications.
This is why vehicles are often for display only. You can see what the production vehicle will look like at least, but if you sat in it and started cranking on all the components you would be very disappointed.
People obviously don't understand where show vehicles come from, and how delicate they may be. Roping them off prevents people from writing a model off a vehicle before it even hits the dealerships.
was getting in and out of the rear seating on the element similar to a coupe?
I realize it wont be like a 4 door, and unfortunately honda attached the seat belts to the doors instead of the seats,
are their any vehicles out now you would compare ease (or lack of) entry in the element to tpat3?
also Iselhondas i take it you are a sales person,
how much is it going to hike the dx elements price up to add air conditioning, and is their a possible dealer installed cruse control or will we have to go ex or aftermarket to get cruse?
If they can engineer it, I'm sure Honda could.
I bet A/C is $1800 and cruise is $400 or so. It may vary by dealer.
-juice
I'll assume no A/C in the DX's but I don't know that for sure.
People have to remember this is a limited production nitch market car. It will not please the masses and will appeal to a narrow band of folks. Target market is males in their 20's from what I hear.
No 5 speeds with 4WD which will no doubt, bother a small percentage of shoppers.
It'll be interesting to see what happens.
I am getting A LOT of phone calls!
Chris777, the rear seat egress isn't so much an issue for rear seat passengers as for those in front. The opening is enormous even with the front seats all the way back. I was referring to the fact that the front passengers must unlatch their seat belts and open their doors before the folks in back can get out. Seems like a real pain in the neck. Sorry for the confusion.
I've been expecting the interior to be cheap. You don't get 3,500 lbs of car for under $20K without some corners being cut. However, I would expect it to be better assembled than the show car.
one of my biggest questions and I forgot to ask now that people have actually sat in an element
one of the main readons I was even interested in the element was that the gear shift was placed on the lower dash rather than having one of those annoying consoles that I bang my knee on
how does the element compare to the crv is their comparable clearance for leg room?
the crv is one of the few vehicles ive been in that has enough clearance that I dont bang my leg while driving and I was wondering how element comlared
BTW this is forum not a fan club. I'm venting. Hssss.....
-juice
Steve, Host
(still 20/20)
-juice
when I 1st saw matrix I hoped so much
and they were dashed by like 4 or 5 inches.
oh well
if I could only build my own car
speaking of which
"if Chrylser and GM can do a built-into-the-seat seat belt, Honda can and should"
they did on model x (MD-X)
I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to transfer them on the doors?
I i also personally miss the bench seats out of mod x we could have potentaly sat 6 in her
dont get me wrong I approve of what they did in safety factors
those 1 pillar benches didn't look too stable (or comfortable)
I especially like the rear seats flip and fold (lifted from step wagon) better than mod x's rear seats .
I just cant help thinking how much sweeter
the truck would be if they made a few adjustments to make 3 passenger rear seating a possibility by placing cup holders in the suicide doors
and a specially contoured and bolstered front bench with slight modifications to the original mod x dash (taking where the shifter dipped and moving it all the way upon the dash somewhere.
I'd be willing to pay an extra 500- 1000 for a
six seater element, with front bench integrated belts,door mounted cup holders, extra padded sides and a flap possibly to make the rear bench more comfortable
{I noticed a few weeks ago while debating on the civic that the sides of the rear bench around where the seats fold down is basically the rear wheel wells covered with minor padding and seat cloth. {it is perfectly contoured though i might add i would have missed it if i hadn't bopped my elbow on it })
but the same concept could have been used on elements rear bench a slight tweak and it's a 3 seater
man I almost want to photochop something if I knew how to post it on here
focus groups and committees always seem like cool
brains storming sessions with all sorts of ideas
but not every idea deserves reality (aztek)
I'd like to know how many folks directly involved in the r & d will actually end up driving an element daily? (and how quickly they will realize they need to make several tweaks in the design)
it looks good in photos concept ect, but
its like several people have pointed out
those seat belts are going to be a problem
if they wouldn't be trouble why is it the domestic extended cabs have already moved them to the seat frames?
obviously somebody complained
I saw a trailblazer brochure and the drivers and front passenger both have seat mounted belts."
the only reason other than poor design I can think of is seat strength
that article someone posted a link to a couple of weeks back basically said honda had some of the weakest seat backs on the market. claiming the 5 star crash protection was enough
just something to think about
You can host pics for free on ImageStation.com.
Subaru also missed on several items from the ST-X concept to the Baja production model - no supercharged engine, quarter-sized mid-gate instead of the concept full mid-gate a-la Avalance, and no low range gearing.
They projected 2000 sales per month but it's more like 800, so customers notice that stuff and aren't buying.
-juice
The seat belts were reversed coming from the center out with the buckles on the outside
supposedly in the concept the front seat back would flip forward so the front 2 occupants could face the rear
I liked that idea as well
though the seats literally looked about as comfortable as a park bench
but it looked as if their had been a slight tweak in design and it would have sat 6 in a pinch
But 5 seats would appeal to more folks, sure.
-juice
Bob
Sure enough, right on the beach sand, donut spare and all.
-juice
ateixeira, you can also post pics for free on HondaElement.org You can then use html to post pics here on Edmunds by using the url of the pic that is hosted over there
It's cute. It would have to be lot longer, though.
-juice
dx- 18,760
ex - 21,310
they want 500. down to have first right of refusal. not bad...i think i am going to go for the black.
DOCT what state are you in?
I read a review in one of the new car buying guides speaking of poor power, wind noise,and possibly confirming my concerns with visibility
complaining that the front pillar obscured turning vision and the rear pillars blocked some rear visibility
I took a quick look at a baja the other night, its quite literally a car without a trunk lid.
Talk about a fad vehicle, about the only use the "bed" would have is for hauling leaky trash bags
oh btw its just under a month untill the "official " release date
on the ment
Yeah, and keep in mind that the Baja, for instance, is longer than the Outback, not shorter. So potentially the Element Crew Cab could be cavernous.
Baja really needs the bed extender option. It's meant for hauling bags of mulch, not sheets of plywood. Subaru is marketing them at flower shows.
I think they sort of missed when they put perforated leather, alloys, and a moonroof in a small utility crew cab. The price with all that stuff is too close the V6 Crew Cabs that can handle heavier duty. Delete those three and it could sell for under $20k street price.
-juice
Check out Edmunds' SEMA coverage, an Escalada EXT added a power retractable tonneau cover. Cool, if a bit gimmicky.
-juice
5-speed FWD.
See: http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2209.shtml
Here's Healey's review of the Element:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2002-11-21-element_x.htm
To see the info:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/021122-5.htm
along with am/fm cd and all for $1000 less than a us dx with no air or radio (or speakers)... kinda makes you wonder about this "shortage" of American rt4wd units
I wonder if the Canadian element "Y "package will include a free surfboard and water ski attachments
other thoughts on design. my "four door" ranger has this suicide rear door set up. i find this an excellent design for getting into, and materials in, the extended cab. the doors close with both upper and lower large locks and are quite secure you also have to open the front door to open the rear. not a problem, even in tight parking spaces. this will work great and is a good decision for what the element is targeted to be.
there are plenty of mini vans, suv and cars for people who will have complaints about element's style. can we please have a vehicle that is for snowboarding-type men who feel that ever other AWD drive has been taken over by women, moms, family men, and gomers that is not a pickup? I think with my feeling on this topic I better buy one today before i see one elemnent parked at the crafts store, nursing home, girls soccer practice or delta-delta-delta sorority house.....just a free form [non-permissible content removed] session ..thank you for you time.
p.s i think element will be great...bring 'em on!!!
Anyone know what the drag coefficient of this box is? Seems like it could have picked up a few MPG with a wedgey front.
IMO Honda wanted the LX but did not have time. IMO the models will have no markings until they can straighten out the model lineup.
On pricing I still see the decent LX CRV is cheaper than a loaded Y Element. tsk tsk
Canadians are cheap because we pay lots of taxes on top of the selling price. They don't put up much with markups on Hondas. They walk or wait or buy used. There is always some stock around. No big rush on Hondas. It only seems to me that big markups and demand in the states occur in "rich" areas like California or where people have too much money.
Overall, I really liked what I saw of the Element. The dealers are expected to get them by Dec. 12 here in S.A. so I'll be sure to drop by for test drive.
Just my .02 cents!
The things that don't look good are the fact that someone said that if you have rear passengers, there is no room behind the rear seat for much of anything, so it has less useful room than a midsized sedan with a trunk unless you fold or remove the rear seats. So, this is not the kind of vehicle you can take to pick up a couple friends at the airport. Where is their luggage going to go?
You can get a roof rack and carry more, but you could do that with a Buick Century.
I noticed it has a port to plug in an M3 player and video games, but I don't see any mention of a 110V standard AC jack for that video game player like the Vibe and Matrix have.
It is inconvenient to have to unbuckle the seatbelts to allow passengers into the rear seat after the front passenger are already seated and buckled up, but this would not come up often in my case.
Gas mileage is worse than a 240HP V6 Accord.
I will look at it anyway to see if the seats are comfortable enough for an everyday car.
They are planning on making only 50,000 and can increase to 70,000 per year if sales justify it. That is still relatively low production, so I don't think they will have too much trouble selling that small amount.
Maybe I'll go and look at the PT/GT Cruiser now that it is no longer the hot new thing selling at over MSRP.