Honda Element

ateixeira

For gear, I'd agree. That clamshell rear gate is nice, and the side doors open wide.

For people, no, the RAV4 is easier to load full of people (and up to 7, vs. 4).

-juice

rudy2000

What happened? The HP spec on the 2.4 dropped from 160 in 2005 to 156 in 2006. Anyone know what was changed and why?

stever

Happened to the Pilot and Civic Si and other makes/models too because of a change in the testing - for example "stated power output for the Pilot's V6 engine has dropped slightly due to Honda's adoption of a new SAE horsepower-rating procedure." link

Steve, Host

ateixeira

It's just how it's measured now. It makes the same power as before, so it'll feel the same.

-juice

parno

Any traps in earlier Elements? I'm thinking of one 2 or 3 years old.

Pete

jay2090

At 31,000 rear brake pads are 100% used up while front pad have more than half a life remaining. Even wear side to side and all components functioning normally. Dealer acknowledges front to back difference not logical but says that this is not unusual on Elements and crv's. Any thoughts or information?

micweb

Emergency brake not completely disengaged by driver?

Cable too tight on emergency brake, causing slight engagement of rear brakes?

I don't think these are the likely cause, since there would be overheating of the rear brakes and an odor; also, once some of the brakes had worn down, there shouldn't be further wear (no contact).

Final (possible) cause - carrying a lot of weight in the rear, if the brake system has an automatic proportioning system to direct more braking to the rear brakes in such a situation.

dweiser

.... of what the brake wear should be in a FWD vehicle.

robr2

That is true but my experience with a 98 Accord was that the rear pads are thinner than the front pads. That was confirmed to me by both the Honda service department and an independent shop.

ateixeira

Weird, the front do 90% of the braking, since weight shifts forward no matter what.

31k seems awful soon, have them inspect the parking brake to see that it's not stuck.

-juice

bigfur

Looking to purchase an 06 EXP with the 5-sp (if i can find on in minnesota). Just wondering what the fuel mileage is on these real world. Thanks for any input

trout2

We are getting around 20 mpg on our EXP 5-sp with AWD. It is only 1 month old, with 300 miles. Around town driving only.

bigfur

Saw this on eBay.com today. An Element with under 29K miles on it that the dealer replaced the rear brakes before reselling the car. ill try to add the link but i dont know if or how long it will work. Worth cheking it out, im thinking this may be more normal than you think. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Element-EX-4x4-HONDA-CERTIFIED-New-Brakes-DEALER_- W0QQitemZ4611986193QQcategoryZ80742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

rudy2000

The '05 & '06 Element EX come with XM. What are your comments about XM? Did you subscribe after the 90-day trial? Do you still subscribe? Are you concerned about the 250+ salellites floating in space, mamy of them space junk? Do you think satelite radio will ever be profitable? If the price of XM doubles to $25, whould you still subscribe? Finally, what is your favorite XM station? Mine is XM101 The Joint. Keep it burning.

carrman

Emergency brake not completely disengaged by driver?

Cable too tight on emergency brake, causing slight engagement of rear brakes?

I don't think these are the likely cause, since there would be overheating of the rear brakes and an odor; also, once some of the brakes had worn down, there shouldn't be further wear (no contact).

Final (possible) cause - carrying a lot of weight in the rear, if the brake system has an automatic proportioning system to direct more braking to the rear brakes in such a situation.

Unfortunately it's the braking system that is causing the issue, the "brake force distribution" system or whatever Honda calls it. The end result is more even braking and it seems rear pad wear at an accelerated rate. I hear the rear pads are thinner than the front but don't know this to be a fact. At 31k miles my '04 ACCORD has about 25% left on rear pads and something like 60% front, that's what the dealer is telling me anyway.

drewmeister

All,
I have an 04 Wrangler (hard top) that I'm considering trading for an E. I've done some price shopping, and I put quite a bit down when I bought the Jeep, so I'm not upside down (of course trade-in will vary by dealer). However, I've been reading this board and I see some of the same complaints I was hoping to get away from with the E. Basically, I've recently found myself driving all over the city each day, and the off-road capability I wanted suddenly wasn't so necessary. Plus, I get 16mpg. So I needed better mileage, a smoother quieter ride, and solid reliability. The E seems to fit this bill, but I do see some complaints. In the city highway loops, I always feel in the Jeep that I'm forced to go faster than the Jeep feels comfortable with by the speed of traffic. It's pretty aggressive. I'm certainly not a fast driver, but I'd like to have the ability to keep some of the "pushers" off of my bumper as well. Also, less road noise would be good, as long as I'm at it. I'd like to stay in a more utility-type vehicle rather than give up all my utility and buy a car. Is the Element too much like the Jeep?

micweb

See if you can track down the February issue of Car and Driver. It might be on-line now too. It has a good review of the Element and some other "box" competitors.

If you can wait until the fall (probably late November), there should be a major upgrade to the Element, it's that time in its model cycle.

I am personally hoping to see the following upgrades (the lack of which has kept me away from the Element so far):

1. 5 occupant seating capability (can't have it now because the rear seats are designed to swing up and off the floor to the sides to open up a cargo area). I don't need the ability to haul 5 adults (and the Element's total weight capacity is a measly 650 pounds or so), but I do need the ability to haul a toddler in a car seat, a pre-teen, my wife, and at least one friend - 3 adults (two of whom are small and light) and a couple of kids, plus camping gear.

2. Rear seats slightly closer to the front seats (or which can move forward and back) so the rear seat passengers aren't sitting exactly over the rear axle which is probably the harshest ride position in any vehicle.

3. Upgrade from the current 4 speed automatic to at least a 5 speed automatic transmission like in the CR-V. This would drop cruising RPM and probably help gas mileage, which is 4 mpg lower on the highway (EPA ratings) than the CR-V.

4. Inclusion of stability control like on the CR-V.

5. Inclusion of standard combination side airbags (it's hard to mount side curtain airbags in the roof rails of the Element, but there are a lot of airbags that come out of the sides of seats that also include head protection, presently missing in the Element). Also knee airbags, which are starting to emerge as an important part of the front airbag set (too many reported knee and lower body injuries in many vehicles due to sliding out from under the seat belt and air bag).

6. Inclusion of standard floor mats. Yeah, we hear the hype about washable "hard" floors, but most owners need mats so they or their dogs or children aren't sliding or slipping, plus the hard interior increases the noise level.

7. Modification of the "suicide" rear doors so either you don't have to open the front doors to let rear passengers out (hard to do this redesign) OR repositioning of the front shoulder belts so you don't have to take off your seat belt to let a rear passenger out.

8. Inclusion of a cargo cover, either standard or as an option, for the "trunk."

Now from the list you'd think I don't like the Element, but I like it a lot more than the CR-V we have now (which is boring). I like the clamshell rear hatch; the FCX durable seat treatment; the upright, "look over" seating position; the "illegitimate love-child of a Hummer and MINI" looks; and the passenger car bumper compatible height (lower center of gravity for the Element).

The Element really, really needs some of the goodies that are stock on the CR-V, since there really isn't much price difference - better air bags, standard ABS, stability control.

Now for the real heresy - I'd be perfectly ok if they kept the "box" shape but deep-sixed the suicide doors. The suicide doors add about 200 unnecessary pounds to the vehicle (and increases GVWR), but little functionality. Honda claims you get a wider opening for cargo, but what's wrong with using the hatch for cargo loading? Meanwhile, parents everywhere get mad everytime they have to open their door and unbuckle to get the rear seat passengers out.

I am SO glad I didn't follow my impulses and get an Element when it first came out. In theory, it has a ton of neat features, but when you examine the features, they turn out to be inconveniences in many cases.

What I'd like to see is a new engineering team assigned to the Element, and told to make the Element into a bigger, meaner, MINI - give acceleration, handling, sportiness a higher priority. Ditch the "swing up" rear seats in favor of a solid bench with 3 position seating, but one that can be easily removed for cargo. Keep the FCX, and the floor, but add "padded" floor mats that can be removed and hosed down. Get rid of the "cladding" and adopt the EX-P "fully painted" look.

goltgo

I haven't been in a hard-top Wrangler at speed, but I have been in a soft-top one. I don't know how much difference the hard top makes, but I suspect the E will do better than it as far as road noise goes. I know two people who have had some sort of sound-dampening stuff sprayed on the bottom of their Es by the dealer. Both report a quieter ride. I didn't think there was an excessive amount of road noise to begin with, especially (1) compared to a Civic for example and (2) if you've got some music on. I also don't really notice the ride being much quieter now, but these aren't my cars and I don't ride in them often, so I'm not the best judge. Anyway, bottom line is that it's at least worth a test drive to see what you think.

nowakj66

I think there will be one more year (2007 model year) prior to change in 2008 MY.

pretzelb

I'm not sure what is left of the Element after all your changes are made. It sounds like a CRV with a different look on the outside. I'd have an easier time buying one if it at least didn't have the suicide doors so I can feel good about offering to drive 2 other adults to dinner without being worried how nimble they are at getting into the back. A bit more speed would be nice too.

drewmeister

Thanks all. Some incredibly detailed and useful information for me to consider. I must admit the Wrangler dropped in value farther than I thought (according to Kelley's) so I may drive one now and try to find out when the changes are going to happen. I did take a very short test drive last year with a friend who wound up purchasing one, and it did seem very carlike for it's shape. I think even with the reverse doors, it would be an improvement, as I've still only got the two, and only one seat folds and tumbles. The Jeep community is great, but I think Honda did it's homework pretty well for how people actually use utility vehicles every day. If the press on the Ridgeline is any indication, they're about to do the same with trucks. Thanks again for your opinions.

extremebigdog

I sold my 2000 Wrangler hard top for a 2005 Element EX AWD and couldn't be happier. We use the Element mostly in the city and on a few road trips each year. It is so much easier to drive then the Wrangler. The visiblity is great for driving around town and it is so much more stable at speed then the Wrangler. Its also much faster. My Wrangler Sport wasn't comfortable above 90 mph. Really it didn't like it much above 80. But the Element is very comfortable as fast as I am willing to go on an interstate.

The Wrangler was much better off road of course, but the added camping gear I can carry with the Element and the seating comfort on the way to the mountains more then makes up for it. The AWD was actually more effective in the snow the in the Wrangler. I even tried to get stuck by driving in the deepest snow I could find, without success. But I had no difficulty getting stuck with the Wrangler in both snow and sand. Of course, I can't really even attempt the same rock strewn trails with the Element that I could with the Wrangler.

Its all a compromise but the Element ended up being the perfect vehicle for me and I highly recommend it.

I was also surprised with the depreciation of the Jeep. I thought it would be pretty good. But you should move soon if your going to sell it because I would guess the value of the TJ's will drop as soon as the 2007 Wrangler goes on sale.

I'm so happy with our Element that I will probably buy another one in a few years.

rudy2000

I have an '06 EX-P that I wish to install fog lamps. I already purchased the fog lamps from handa-accessories.com. The instructions look fairly straight forward, however, I am seeking any advice from anyone who might have installed their own fog lamps on an Element. I do have one question right off the bat. How do you get those pesky clips out? Any advise is appreciated. Rudy

rtremont

try this out

http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/HondaInstallGuides/Element/foglights.pdf

rudy2000

Thanks for that rtremont. I was looking for experienced installers. I did the install myself. Install took 3.75 hours. Simple tools, simple installation. Every Element needs fog lamps.

1racefan

I also am looking at buying an Element, but am weighing it's offroad capability, and it's features.

One suv I am going to look at is the new Suzuki Grand Vitara. Looks like it has a lot of cool features, along with more offroad capability. The only thing that scares me is that the "local" dealer isn't really in a convenient spot for me, and I don't know alot about the quality of the Suzuki. I feel like the Element is probably a better quality vehicle, but I like the features of the Suzuki more.

ateixeira

Try it out, I wasn't impressed with the engine, not very smooth, not very powerful, not very efficient. But the overall package is still decent and the price is right. I prefer the Element, though.

-juice

1racefan

Thanks for the feedback regarding the Grand Vitara - The characterisitics you mentioned were what I was afraid of. I think we will probably just stick with the Element. My wife will be driving it most of the time and we don't have kids, so the suicide doors aren't an inconvenience for us. We also have dogs, so the washable interior is also ideal.

ateixeira

Try the Element, and if you might venture off road, go try out the Toyota FJ, that thing looks fun.

-juice

stewardrobbins

I don't think of my Element as off-road capable at all. It's a unibody wagon with AWD for slippery conditions. HOWEVER, IMO, it's the perfect small vehicle for dogs. The only thing better is a much larger minivan. The rear seats fold or can be removed, leaving a large area with a flat floor that's great for crates or dogs with seatbelts. That floor is low enough, unlike most SUV's with folding seats, for a big, older dog to jump in and out of without difficulty. The easy clean-up interior is another plus. I also find the Element fun to drive for a dog hauler.

1racefan

I have been debating between the Element, several midsized suv's, and a 4 door compact truck (like any of these are compact any more). I use to own a regular cab truck, but didn't use it (for truck purposes anyway) enough to justify having it. We anticipate getting a boat (2000lbs or less) in a couple of years, so I was originally leaning towards something like the Trailblazer or Grand Vitara (says it can tow 3500lbs).

I think what we are going to do (and this could change by tomorrow) is to get the Element, with a hitch installed, and I will buy a utility trailer for the 5 or so times a year I need to haul landscaping type stuff for our yard.

Then when it comes time to get the boat, I will look for a 5-10 year old, V8, regular cab short bed pick up to use only for hauling and towing. This way I get to look forward to buying another vehicle in a couple of years (I am not anywhere near as bad as the people on the Chronic Car Buyer's board, but I still get a rush out of the process).

elementman

2006 Element EX-P AWD - 3000 miles - 24MPG for one refill, 22 MPG when towing a trailer. My last tank was 21.16 MPG, and was all normal city driving. So unless it keeps declining as I add the miles, I would say an honest 21-22MPG for average city driving. The 24 might have been a fluke, or maybe cars get better mileage until they're broken in.

1racefan

Does anyone here have experience driving both the AWD and the FWD Element? I was hoping for feedback on the handling characteristics of each. I already own one AWD vehicle, and we don't have very much bad weather where I live.

We have decided on an EX Element, but are now debating whether or not to get the AWD. I am also wondering how much we would miss the sunroof by going with the FWD model. With the sunroof being in the rear instead of the front, I don't think that is neccessarily a deal breaker for us, but part of me would still like to have it. On the other hand, I am thinking if we don't need AWD, we might as well get the FWD and take advantage of the better gas mileage.

4runnerrip

I test drove the FWD a few times in winter on wet and icy surfaces - it's not very good at all. But the AWD is a treat, I ended up buying a 5-speed AWD and it's traction is fantastic.

varmint

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060307/AUTO01/603070343/1148-

Nice to see the ads are no less quirky than the vehicle.

ateixeira

Remember that whacky on-line video game? I shared a link a while back, perhaps in the Honda's Run thread.

I like seeing Honda take risks, not only with the product but also with the marketing. Their lineup is more diverse with the Element in it.

-juice

varmint

Yeah, Honda also produced an el-cheapo racing game where you could pick an S2000, CR-V, or something else (Civic?).

Their ads campaigns in the UK have won them several awards. Stuff like Cog, Choir, Hate Something, and a few others have earned critical acclaim. Wish that same ad agency worked here in the states.

ateixeira

That was one of the best car ads I've ever seen, perhaps THE best.

And the cool thing was it was a car I've wanted to see make it to the USA - essentially a TSX wagon (euro Accord).

-juice

ramohio

I have AWD automatic EX. I wish I got the FWD 5-speed EX. The AWD is very basic and only is triggered when front tires spin. I would have saved $2200 and got better mpg on the hwy for sure. It would be lighter and more fun. I never get more than 24mpg, always 20-21 city an 34-24 hwy, but it is ok. I love the Element, well-made, smooth, roomy...but the sunroof is a novelty that I have never used. It is like it is not even there. Only if you sleep in the back...how romantic.

yah_h0o

I have 05 EX AWD and my g/f have 06 LX FWD. AWD traction is grrrreat. Entering Fwy U ramp gas 48MPH; the AWD grips well, no burning rubber sounds. My g/f FWD entering the same Fwy U ramp gas 39-40MPH, I started to hear rubber burning sounds. Not to mention brakes with AWD responded GRRRREAT!!!! AWD worth the extra $$$; and losing about 2-3MPG. Not bad at all. No complain here. For under $22K with AT, EX, AWD, roomy, Honda quality small SUV? U can't find that in other auto makers.

wildbill

What does AWD have to do with braking performance?

dweiser

Our Element didn't fare too well, came in 4th out of 4.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=10524

1racefan

I just bought an '06 Element EX, 4wd, Auto this weekend. Love it so far, and was very impressed with the buying process. One thing I was looking at over the weekend was the tailgate. Does anyone know if there is any kind of a tailgate protector that attaches to the tailgate (the inside). The inside tailgate surface is plastic, but the plastic surface still looks like it could possibly scratch if you are loading/unloading heavy objects.

goltgo

I know this has been mentioned on this board before, but in case there are new E owners who haven't heard this, the C&D article repeats a misconception that the interior of the Element can be "hosed out" for cleaning. Do that, and you'll get hosed by the dealer for replacement of all sorts of interior electronics that are not shielded properly for such treatment. It's not like a Wrangler with drainholes and whatnot. It can be cleaned by being "sponged out," of course.

1racefan

As I stated earlier, I just purchased an E. I have a compressor in my garage with the blower attachment, so my plan was to open all the doors and hatch, and blow it out after we have had our dogs in there. Then, I will go back and wipe any residual dort off with a damp sponge. I am not a big fan of mixing water and electronics.

seneca

WE HAVE A 2003 ELEMENT DX WITH UPGRADE STEREO THAT WE PURCHASED,AND WE HAVE A LX WITH FACTORY STEREO/SPEAKERS. THE 2003 SOUND SO MUCH BETTER. DID YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW WHAT THE STANDARD SYSTEM WAS THAT CAME WITH THE LX? ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR A MED/PRICE UPGRADE?

tidester

Welcome aboard!

I suggest turning off your CAPS LOCK. People tend to ignore messages typed in ALL CAPS.

tidester, host

ateixeira

Very interesting, April 13th Honda had a press release and they're expected to launch a new Element Concept! Press schedule says 10:40am.

-juice

raychuang00

April 13th Honda had a press release and they're expected to launch a new Element Concept!

Hmmm!!! :surprise: Maybe this will be based on the new small SUV platform that will also be used on the next-geenration Honda CR-V and the new Acura RDX small SUV's?

mrearlygold

Hi, are you saying that the sunroof is in the front of the vehicle if you get one with AWD??? The rear sunroof has been the primary deal breaker for me.

Can I also get one without the flat black body parts?

How do you all like this vehicle overall and how would you compare it with the older ( I have a 2000 Jeep Cherokee, 6 cyl 4X4) Jeep Cherokee 6 cyl 4X4's?

Thanks!