Dodge Razor

rezo00

2.4l turbo 4: 250hp

2500lbs

14,500 base price

http://www.motortrend.com/jan02/razor/razor_f.html

I love it however if it goes the way of the crossfire it may end up with a 200hp instead...still love it...

cyranno99

the last time that I drove a Dodge, that car did not have A/C.

It's always funny to see the base price on these concept cars. Anyway, it's too weird looking for me.

wishnhigh1

You can tell they were aiming at the 350Z. You remember the color of the original 350Z concept? Identical to this concept. And the wheels are pretty darn similar too.

You know, Chyrsler has always been fast to the marketplace with concepts, usually without heavy modification from the original concept.

BUT, I don't know if that will work, especially under the new management. Also, $14,500, as incredible as it sounds, is never going to happen. If this car were actually built with those specs and that price, I can imagine these things going for 10,000 more than that.

Daimler Chrysler: Build it. I dare you to steal my money from the imports. I double dare you.

mikemajesty

anyone have any idea when this car may be coming out. i am selling my suv and was considering getting a second gen and third gen rx7, but now i might just get this and a third gen. love rwd. anyway, thanks, any input would be appreciated.

jay_75

What is the styling all about? Seems to me they took MR2 headlights (and Porshe-ish hood/windshiled?), TT rooflines, and Z rear-end and kinda molded them all together....not original at all, and not very attractive in my opinion.

Also, I agree with Wishnhigh about the price. No matter how much parts sharing there is, there is no way it will cost anywhere near 14.5K

imaram

Whoa!!

If they build it, I will buy. Looks a little like a baby Crossfire, only a lot better, to me. Derivative, yes, but I like it a lot.

Agreed with the above, I can't see $15K. Maybe without the breathing apparatus and the six-speed, but not with them. At fifteen K, I could see a 2.4L with a good five-speed though. Sort of like an inexpensive Miata-ish experience.

wishnhigh1

Who cares about how it looks. I happen to like it, but would still buy it if it looked like a yugo. If they can build what they say they can build at the price they say they can build it at, I will buy it. I will run down to my bank right now and get a loan and buy the car.

Even if it were not turboed and with only a 5 speed, it would still be a great value.

But I don't think that will be the case. Even if msrp was 14.5k, I think dealer gouging would put it up about another 5k.

ccotenj

cool looking... nice numbers...

can't see it for less than 10k more though... wishn is right there...

one is also somewhat concerned about "off the shelf" suspension parts... put that much juice in that small and light a package, you'd better do some pretty good suspension tuning... otherwise, all you have is a small cambird...

-Chris

imaram

Have to say, Dodge, when you go ES, rather than base SE, does some fairly decent suspension work. Handling on their offerings has been pretty decent over the past 5-7 years. Maybe Andre has some history further back.

Weak links have been transmissions, head gaskets and interior finish workmanship (OK, and the occasional ball-joint!), but handling has been a fairly strong suit.

ccotenj

rwd is a different animal from fwd in handling dynamics...

not doubting they can do it... no doubt they've got some smart little engineers sitting in front of their cad screens figuring it out... it's gonna take some r&d though to figure it out... of course, the daimler boys can probably help them with that...

does dodge have a rwd platform car now? i should know, but i'm pretty ignorant when it comes to their offerings.

-Chris

imaram

I can't think of one, unless this is based on some updated Prowler pieces.

Crossfire is the first RWD Chrysler car in quite a while (other than Prowler), and it's a Benz, I think.

Maybe there's a brain trust left over from '71-'73 that they can tap!

imaram

Here's the accessories quote:
"Razor's interior is like a clean canvas. Our vision is that you would be able to get additional features through MOPAR to paint your ideal driving setting," said interior designer Schuttera.

The six-speed is coming from Benz and the 2.4 is the same one in the SRT-4.

And some more prelim specs:
Engine: 2.4-liter I-4 turbocharged w/intercooler
Estimated Power: 250 bhp. (187 kW)
Estimated Torque: 230 lb.-ft. (312 Nm)
Transmission: Six-speed manual transmission
Drive: Rear-wheel drive
Structure: Lightweight steel unibody
Front suspension: Independent MacPherson setup
Rear suspension: Multi-link independent with coil-over-shock setup
Front wheels: 19" x 7"
Rear wheels: 20" x 7"
Length: 147.8 in. (3754 mm)
Width: 68.8 in. (1748 mm)
Height: 47.8 in. (1214 mm)
Wheelbase: 98 in. (2489 mm)
Track
Front: 58 in. (1473 mm)
Rear: 60 in. (1524 mm)
Overhang
Front: 27.3 in. (693 mm)
Rear: 22.4 in. (569 mm)
Est. Weight: 2500 lbs. (1134 kg)
Estimated Performance
0-60 mph. (0-96 km/h): 6 sec.
Top Speed: 140 mph. (225 km/h)

ccotenj

that's about 5000 dollars worth of wheels and tires alone (they'd have to be made of something relatively exotic to be light enough not to hold the car in place!), i think this car is starting to sound like about at least a 25k tag, if not getting up to 30....

-Chris

orcinman

This is a brilliant concept and deserves to be put into production.

This thing would be a bigger smash than the PT cruiser, should it be released.

imaram

Yeah, I saw the wheel specs and thought "no way those are staying."

I wouldn't want them. First, I don't have the capital to replace front rubber every 9-12K miles (or I'd own a used NSX), and second, my impression is that anything over 17" on a car that size is pretty much counter-productive.

Am I wrong, or would a RWD platform leave room for something a little more sophisticated than struts up front; or have I just been reading too much about the de-contenting of Civics?

dave330i

BMW 3-series uses struts up front, and is considered the best handling sedan in the market. Nothing wrong with struts up front.

imaram

I have no handling complaints and I have struts up front on the Eclipse.

So all the fuss over the Civic is flumdiddle?

Anyway, if it works, saves space and costs less, I guess I'm OK with it.

imaram

Here's a thought:

I'll wager that DCX can bring this to market faster, and bearing more resemblence to the concept, than GM can bring the Solstice to market.

Just based on track record, that is.

Of course, they have to recall the head gasket or the ball-joints or something in the first year, but they'll be first!

ccotenj

struts, just as god and bmw intended it (to steal div2's line)...

the children of the corn are up in arms about the loss of their wishbones, there's no doubt about that... i won't even claim to know enough to fill a thimble about the modifications you can do to the suspension of a civic, but it probably had to do with that... maybe someone *knowledgeable* (like only1harry, he's a veritable treasure trove of REAL info on hondas) will fill us in...

i guess big wheels "look good" on a concept car...

-Chris

ccotenj

lol... probably right on both counts!

-Chris

imaram

"struts, just as god and bmw intended it..."

Don't scare me now.

I'm just curious, have you guys ever driven a RWD sport spec'd with bigger rubber in the back? Is it worth the hassle of not being able to rotate all four paws? Are they on to make the application of heavy torque more manageable?

I can see it for show cars. I mean, how many times did you sit in study hall (or detention) and draw pictures of cars with big, fat rubber in the back? But in practical application?

rezo00

yeah i should have mentioned...theres probably no way they can pull of the price they set...the miata is actually about the same size and goes for more like 22k and has 140hp...I bet if they do pull this off it will be 23-24k and 200hp...I would still buy it, thats stil a good deal....if they dont do to it what they did to the crossfire.

dave330i

On a Z-rated tires, you only get 20k. 25k if you drive really slowly. Not being able to rotate isn't a big deal. It does make full size spare interesting though.

imaram

Imagine a rear flat, and a donut in the boot! LOL

Price - Now think about this rezo: $23K-$24K for a 200hp (good) with a six-speed (better). For the enthusiast, that's great. For the general public, who adored the PT, there's no radio, no power locks or windows, no cruise, cloth on the seats, a digital speedo (just go back and read through the S2000 topic), no niceties. Will Mr. & Mrs. John Q. buy it? No way.

Upon further review, if the no-frills thing is going to fly, then the performance will HAVE to be there, and the price will have to be under $20K. Then they can make some real cash adding accessories at the dealership (if you buy them with the car, they're covered under the bumper-to-bumper).

Maybe they WILL pull it off. But you guys are right about the gouging thing; if it starts at $14.5K, the dealers are going to get an extra five easy!

millerro3

if the price is what they say it should be, $14.5, that's a lot of performance for the $. I think it'll be closer to double that price, no? The Chrysler dealers already proved they know how to seriously mark up a "hot" car with the PT Cruiser. That car is ALL looks, now they've got a real performer, what will happen?

I wonder if DC has figured out that Razor scooters are over and done with, everyone either has one or had one, now they might be bringing a car out with that name on it, and giving you two scooters that nobody wants anymore?

wishnhigh1

lol...yeah I was wondering the same thing.

Copied from the first line of the MT article:

"It only takes one ride on a Razor kick scooter to get hooked on its sporty performance and nimble handling. "

Thats the biggest load of BS I have ever heard in my life. Have you ever tried riding those things? If you have, you know how squirrelly and slow and cheap they are. They need a better company to co-design this with:)

imaram

Someone else said it, so I can't be original, but I'd be real surprised if it gets to market with that name. I agree with you. And yes, the scooter giveaway is a joke.

I like the car though!

ccotenj

that's the neighborhood i'm figuring the price in... just looking at the equipment, i can't see it coming in any less than 25k...

imaram hit on a very good point... a lot of people *claim* they want a no-frills sportscar, but their definition of no-frills is a lot different than ours is...

-Chris

imaram

Chris:

Exactly!

Mr. Shiftright ought to go ga-ga over, at least, the concept. I would think that this is right on his definition of what a sports car should be, or pretty close to it.

OK, better if the top came down, or off.

Mr_Shiftright

No, I didn't go GAH GAH, because of the hard top and the silly big wheels for one...maybe a GAH....or a GA.....but light and fast, I like that....

imaram

Ditto on the big silly wheels!

wishnhigh1

I rather like the looks of big wheels, so long as they arent heavy or hurt performance.

And personally, I prefer hardtops. I dont even care too much for sunroofs either. I like the cabin to be quiet and non turbulent when I am driving hard, so I can hear my music. Also, I like the extra torsional stiffness of a hardtop.

dave330i

no music on this thing, unless you're talking about the engine noise.

imaram

From what I've read over in Aftermarket & Accessories, past a certain point, lowering the profile and raising the wheel diameter doesn't enhance performance, it rather detracts from it. But I'm not savvy enough to know the hows and whys.

I just think the look is a touch overboard. If they're using 18s and 19s, I think I'd be just as happy with 17s and some 50-55 series rubber.

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly, the proportion to the car is all wrong IMO. You aren't supposed to look at the wheels; the wheels are part of the car, not vice-versa. It's like wearing size 20 shoes with your tux. You don't want people staring down at the ground.

wishnhigh1

"From what I've read over in Aftermarket & Accessories, past a certain point, lowering the profile and raising the wheel diameter doesn't enhance performance, it rather detracts from it. But I'm not savvy enough to know the hows and whys."

Well that is kinda misleading. True to a certain extent but still misleading. It has to do with 3 major factors. Wheel design, wheel material, and tires. You basically want to have as little rotating mass as possible, but if the wheel design is good, then you can take advantage of the handling characteristics of size, plus increased area for bigger brakes and better brake cooling.

Its a long discussion, we can have it if you want, but it basically comes down to the wheels design.

wishnhigh1

"Exactly, the proportion to the car is all wrong IMO. You aren't supposed to look at the wheels; the wheels are part of the car, not vice-versa. It's like wearing size 20 shoes with your tux. You don't want people staring down at the ground."

Well I look at it a different way. To use a similar analogy, I would say it is like wearing a nice pair of shoes. They might catch some attention, but they wont divert the attention fully. Its an accesory to the style. It seems as though to you, a shoe is just a necessary item of clothing, where to me it can be a compliment to a great looking tux.

I think the wheels can be one of the most attractive parts of any car. A well designed wheel(not just taking into account the size, but the style and physical design as well) can compliment any car, no matter how beautiful the car already is. And size can be a good thing, function wise, if designed right.

I claim you are supposed to look at the wheels, because they are there. To use your analogy again...I could wear some black and purple Nike Airs with a Hugo Boss tux, and it would be ok...because you arent supposed to look at the shoes, you are supposed to look at the tux.

wishnhigh1

if it is the wheels that are giving this car such an unearthly weight, especially given the small engine, transmission, wheelbase, and spartan interior, then I can give up the wheels.

We still haven't figured out why this car is so heavy. I mean, it is still light by most cars standards, but with the equipment it has it should be more around 2200 lbs or maybe even 2000.

rezo00

if you want 2200lbs go get a toyota mr2. With the HP and the cheap target price no way will they make it 2200lbs...think 2400

dodgerazor

If you look at the pricing, it is about even with a Neon ACR, which has a beautiful suspension setup, weighs about 2,500 lbs...

So give a neon ACR RWD, and the SRT engine. Voila...you have a Razor.

Don't expect 20+ inch wheels...if it did come with them, I would sell them to some ricer to get myself a set of nice light 16-18 inch wheels that actually have R compound tires. Fairly soon I will be launching a fan website for the Razor Stay tuned!

mikemajesty

conversation has been dead for a couple days so i thought i would bump it up. i read a new article on the razor in automobile. didnt really have anything new to say. has anyone heard anything about a possible release date on this car?

mikemajesty

btate2002

There is none. The Razor is only a concept car

boomn29

SO STOP BUMPING THIS LISTING.

mikemajesty

ill stop bumping

imaram

Oops, I bumped it again.

Britney

mikemajesty

like your style imaram

imaram

Well, I just love the dang concept. It worries me that I'm seeing more press about Lutz and Holden/Pontiac than I am about Razor. Makes me think that some circuits between Germany and Auburn Hills are still disconnected. The fact the the Crossfire (no spark plug jokes, Joseph), and not the 300C got the production nod seems to prove it.

BTW, the name MUST change. And the wheels. Other than that, AHWANNIT, AHWANNIT, AHWANNIT!

chem123

They build, I buy. It would b great if it would drop a few pounds and come with 16" wheels instead with some decent rubber for under $15K. Haha, what am I thinking...Dodge doesn't have the guts to build this car.

mikemajesty

dodge(chrysler) has one thing going for them, i would say it is the balls to build things other people wouldnt, i.e. the prowler

wishnhigh1

not so much anymore...since the takeover, chyrsler has castrated those "balls". Proof? the chrysler 300 hemi convertible. Everybody wanted this car, but instead, we get the crossfire.