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Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    They are controlled. Nobody is really saying they do not need to be controlled. Even the German autobahn is controlled. You know, keep right except to pass. Illegal to run out of fuel on the autobahn. Again the Autobahn is neck and neck in terms of the lowest safety (fatality and accident rate) in the time they have been recording these things.
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    The drivers on the autobahn were much more polite than the drivers on America's interstates. Maybe that's why the safety record there is so good.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    It's also much more difficult to get a license, cars are held to strict inspections, you don't see control happy bastards with police desires dawdling in the left lane holding up speeders, etc. Flash to pass is a normal non-confrontational heads up, not some kind of insult. I'd rather driven in such a place compared to here anytime.

    Today I saw a Sentra rear end an old X-car Buick...the woman in the Sentra was on the phone (of course), and yelled at the guy in the Buick after the crash! Her car had decent damage - broken grille/lights, the old X-car looked untouched.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Which further proves the futility of worrying about drivers traveling 80 mph on a road system that was designed to handle it in the first place. Thanks for making my point.

    For once, imidazol and I agree. I didn't mean fatalities don't occur on rural interstates in insignificant numbers. It's just that fatalities are more frequent on non-interstates, especially rural two-lane roads.

    On rural interstates, most fatalities are single-vehicle crashes where the vehicle leaves the road and either rolls over or hits a fixed object (the latter of which is usually much farther from the roadside than on a typical 2-lane road). Going faster makes the outcome worse.

    Look at the typical interstate median or off the right shoulder of the road. It's often too sloped to negotiate at any significant speed without rolling over.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    imidazol97: The accidents that DO occur at higher speeds give more fatalities and more property damage due to higher energy. It does not make your point, sorry.

    And there is no proof that higher speeds on limited access highways lead to more fatalities or accidents. So that doesn't make your point, either.

    imidazol97: The interstate speeds do need to be controlled (and no this is not Germany autobahns.)

    Yes, there does need to be control on the interstates. Left lane campers who rudely block traffic need to be controlled. This is one of the reasons the Autobahn works so and is so safe. They understand the concept of lane discipline. So, yes, there are lessons that we can learn from the Autobahn.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    201delray: Going faster makes the outcome worse.

    Doesn't mean it's more likely to happen...or that higher speeds on limited access highways lead to higher fatality rates per 100 million vehicle miles driven (the accepted method of measuring safety).
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    And there is no proof that higher speeds on limited access highways lead to more fatalities or accidents.

    Doesn't mean [crashes are] more likely to happen...or that higher speeds on limited access highways lead to higher fatality rates per 100 million vehicle miles driven (the accepted method of measuring safety).

    There is proof; you just don't want to believe it because it would rain on your parade (the fun of driving fast). And make no mistake, it is fun. So you continue to believe Car and Driver and the enthusiast press rather than NHTSA, IIHS, and the National Academy of Sciences. Pat Bedard doesn't get his articles published in peer-reviewed journals like the respected Accident Analysis and Prevention, but the IIHS does with its research studies.

    Now I greatly respect/admire your posts on automotive history and on GM's future, to name a couple of issues. You are a good writer. But on this issue of speed, you are incorrect, but no different from the enthusiast press, which earnestly wants to believe driving fast causes no harm.

    I was a little sad too when I realized there was no Santa Claus.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >I was a little sad too when I realized there was no Santa Claus.

    Good point... There is no US autobahn. Our roads are for the masses. The high speed accidents on interstates around here often involve other cars and cause "gasp" fatalities. The powers that be put cable fences in the medians of I 75 to reduce the number of these high speed accidents crossing over and hitting oncoming cars in the opposite direction. At the speed limit of 65 and lower the crossover is less of a problem due to the obvious laws of physics.

    There is no repeal of laws of physics. High speeds = more kinetic energy.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Positions seem pretty entrenched, and the guy on the "other side" is going to change their opinion about speeding and accidents about the same time you change yours.

    It's not possible to "prove" anything here, and we're just going around in circles on this.

    Time to get back to reporting on the goofballs out there.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I just read about that cable barrier in the I-75 median in SW Ohio. Seems also a local church put up a 62-foot high statue of Jesus along the roadside. Some attribute the decline in fatalities to the statue. With its uplifted arms, the statue is also known as "Touchdown Jesus."
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Following a local claybar clean Ranger pickup at 32 mph in 35 zone. He hit the brakes sharply for a squirrel going across the road!!! I wasn't tailgating, but didn't expect him to hit the brakes.

    Duh. The squirrel was moving faster than he was. But I sometimes go couple below the speed limit on the 3 lanes total road so I don't criticize the speed. Maybe if he speeded up the squirrel might have been at risk.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Inconsiderate church...
    Picture on website:
    http://www.solidrockchurch.org/ministries.htm

    The scene is distracting and causes more accidents than it prevents because people are looking over. It is about 150 feet from roadway to the pond.

    This is better than the previous large purple neon sign that had messages flowing across the bottom. At night it was obvious inconsiderate drivers drifted across the 3 lanes because of the distraction.

    Anyone feel free to email at address in interests part of profile. I shouldn't continue off topic.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    couldn't believe it till i saw it - yesterday i caught a lady knitting behind the wheel. now she technically wasn't moving (at a stop light) but i got a chuckle out of that one.

    last week there was a guy i passed reading the paper, but he was holding it very low instead of above the wheel (so it could be seen and would be obvious to others).

    i have seen ladies rolling forward applying mascara, which is vera vera scara 2 me. i've complained to my wife when she tries to apply mascara while in the passenger seat... all you need is one unanticipated quick stop, or some road debris.

    i've seen people tailgate to view the entertainment system / video display of the vehicle in front of them.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    I understand why you shot down the other thread, but... people are going to talk about it endlessly. In here. It's even been pretty civil and it seems relevant to the Townhall forums. I just want it to be happening somewhere other than in this thread. (And, with all due respect, I don't think you'll be able to keep it out of this thread unless there's another one for it.)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    The phrase 'beating a dead horse" comes to mind on the speeding and LLC issues.

    I'm SURE it willcome up again, but it would be nice to give it a rest for now.
  • redmaxxredmaxx Member Posts: 627
    i've complained to my wife when she tries to apply mascara while in the passenger seat... all you need is one unanticipated quick stop, or some road debris.
    Maybe you should give her a demonstration next time? :surprise: :D
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Actually there is a new study out that says 59% of all car crashes are caused by speeding.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    i've seen people tailgate to view the entertainment system / video display of the vehicle in front of them.

    How did you know they were tailgating for that? Maybe they were just tailgaters.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I was driving down I-55 in semi heavy traffic in the right lane. There was a van infront of me and I was following at a respectible distance. There was no one besides the van in the middle lane and the next car behind that spot was right next to me, maybe slightly behind me.

    Well everyone is cheerfully moving along at the same speed when the van signals a lane change and moves into the middle lane. Just as he does the car that was next to me speeds up gets on his rear end and just tailgates the van maybe a foot or two behind him. If the driver of the car had maintained his speed then everything would have been alright. But no he (or she) had to speed up and tailgate the van.

    What was the point of that anyways?

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    Another bumper sticker that kind of covers it all:

    "You are what you eat... what does stupid taste like, anyway??"

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I was driving home from work today...
    In the merry, merry month of ...(October),
    When many brake lights did appear,
    In the left lane I do fear,
    Caused by an oblivious couple in an early 90s Sentra. (Sorry, couldn't get the last line to rhyme.)

    Why do they do that?
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    My pet peeve driving home today was people who brake for red lights waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before there's any need to. Two drivers, I saw do this, and they stopped 4 car lenghts behind the car in front of them, and sloooooooowly inched up.

    In traffic there's no space to waste! The lines spill over to the next intersection and the people behind them aren't expecting such early braking, so you have a lot of panic braking too. People trying to change lanes at that moment face potential trouble too.

    There are few things more dangerous than those which other drivers don't expect you to do.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    They are old and have bad eyesight, especially losing depth preception.
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    I leave a lot more space than I used to. I was in the Air Force during 911 and we were taught to leave a bit more room to escape just in case you need to. It's one of the basic methods to survive a terrorist attack. I couldn't tell you exactly how much room but I leave more than necessary. We all should but the American public has a very bad memory...we were attacked once and we'll likely be attacked again. And people will act surprised again. I wasn't surprised by 911 and I won't be surprised by the next one.
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    We're not beating the dead horse...we're doing CPR and screaming,"LIVE!!!"
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    There are crashes that occur from other factors but the speed is the straw that breaks the camel's back. If anyone isn't familiar with that phrase let me put it another way. Speed compounds any dangerous situation. If you add speed, your chances of not wrecking or surviving a wreck drop. The higher the speed, the more they drop.
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    Even left-laners need to brake sometimes. You never know what it could be...maybe they thought they saw something run across the road, or maybe something did run across the road. I think it's a good rule to say when in doubt, use your brakes. That is unless you're nuts.
  • loncrayloncray Member Posts: 301
    You are correct that speed compounds an accident, but speed itself does not cause those accidents - though great differentials of speed DOES cause accidents. Give me an interstate highway, smoothly flowing at 75 mph over a smaller highway going inconsistent speeds between 35 and 45 any day of the week.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    when the SUV with the display changed lanes, so did the car following...

    you are correct, they could have been
    1). using the SUV as some sort of radar cover
    2). drafting to improve fuel efficiency
    3). trying to keep up so as not to get lost
  • nr9nr9 Member Posts: 55
    if her grille and lights are broken, it is obviously her fault
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    No, no, I was in the right lane watching the whole thing unfold. There was no emergency or anything on the road.

    Traffic was moving nicely but then started to bunch up in the left lane with a lot of brake lights going on. The cars in the left lane slowed enough (below the 55 mph limit) that I ended up going faster than those stuck there.

    Up ahead, I saw a new Mustang that had passed me WAY back, now on the rear of some other car that was obviously holding up the line.

    People started to pass the LLC on the right, including the Mustang. By the time I caught up with the car at the first red light, I saw it was an early 90s Sentra with a middle-aged couple inside, one dangling a cigarette out the open window.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    That and when you rear end someone in 25mph traffic, there's almost no excuse. The guy in front of the X-car slowed, he slowed, she didn't. It was a simple crash. If I got rear ended and such a beastie started yelling at me, she'd probably end up picking pieces of cellphone out of her scalp.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    "one dangling a cigarette out the open window."

    That's a virtual guarantee of an ignorant driver. I always watch out for those people.
  • asafonovasafonov Member Posts: 401
    It's also much more difficult to get a license...

    to the point of a friend of a friend travelling from Finland with his family to get her DL in Madison, WI. Her vision was not perfect, and the expense of travelling across the pond was probably the only way she could get a license and later "transfer" it to her native country.

    Let's not idealise the autobahns and European roads and driving manners in general... it varies.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Well, it can be a little nutty in Italy or Spain...but I'll take a day of highway driving in Germany or even the UK over the roads here just about any day. I don't recall really seeing any problems with LLCs in either country, based on my experience.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,686
    "i advocate children should not be allowed to drive SUVs while learning to drive."

    I find that odd. The first vehicle any of my children will drive is my '69 Econoline. That thing is one of the most unwieldy, cumbersome "passenger" vehicles left on the road. Why will I do this? Because once they master driving it, they can move to any other passenger vehicle and drive it with the competency required to thrive on today's roads. Pamper them early on and they might end up driving something more challenging and take a little too much for granted... A child can handle any challenge when they approach it with care and respect, but if they think they know everything about it already, the confidence of youth betrays them.

    The bigger problem here is that the vast majority of parents are less than competent drivers themselves. It's the blind leading the blind and the problem compounds itself with every generation. :sick:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,686
    There are many of these devices. Not necessarily for that specific purpose, but could be used for it. One product is called "CarChip" and plugs into the diagnostics port. Only works for vehicles ~10 years old and newer, but for $250, it could be useful if a child has responsibility/accountability issues.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,686
    I did an oopsy the other night.

    I had a 0100 broomball game this night, so I went to bed at 2200 to catch a couple hours of sleep before the game. I woke up at 0012, hopped in the car after a few minutes of trying to clear my head, and went into town. After I hit the main road, I was blissfully driving along with my brights on... which was okay because most people were smart enough to be sleeping at this time of night. Eventually another car approached, so I dimmed the lights. Then, about 5 seconds before we pass, I think "I should turn the radio on to get into the mood to play broomball!" Prior to this, I was driving at 9 and 2 positions (had just operated the light switch and planned to do so again). So, as I prep to take my right and off the wheel, I move my left hand to a better position... and flipped my brights on! I immediately flipped them back off, we passed, and I turned them back on. I could not figure out why/how I did this unless my coat snagged the switch, but I was certainly embarrassed by it. The other driver was probably thinking, "What the hell?! I didn't have my brights on.... you SAW me dim them right after you dimmed yours!!!"

    I felt a little relieved when I realized that my wife had shut the driving lights off (I normally keep them tied on to the brights all the time) because at least I did not cause the person pain, but still, very embarrassing. :blush:

    I willingly submit to any ridicule I am rightly given. :lemon:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    I'll just save the ridicule for later, in case I'm losing an argument with you.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    there is plenty of research that SUVs represent a more accident-prone ride for new drivers. now - i don't doubt that some vehicles, specially older ones might represent less of a roll-over hazard.

    i don't agree with you on your assertion that it's better to learn on something unwieldly and cumbersome. you're practically admitting it will be a problem for them to drive. don't you want the experience to be successful and promote confidence? don't you want the rest of the commuting public to be safe? (sort of tongue and cheek - i understand the point you are trying to make, and also assume you're going to be riding in that econoline providing direction and encouragement).

    i do agree w.r.t. parent driver competency, or the lack thereof. also i question parents that buy children new cars like a Jeep...talk about the potential for trouble.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Actually you are defacto admitting that size DOES matter.

    A lot of folks that learn on small cars have a very hard time learning or driving a BIG car. For example my kids can EASILY drive a small car. I also know that a lot of folks have also seen the so called "safer and easier to drive small compact car? ". You know the breed? Bumper damage front and rear, paint and dents to all four doors, 4 scrapped rims all four fenders damaged? If one does not "get" that these folks are "advertising", what will it take? An up close and personal accident with the "free advertisers?"

    If they had learned on a small car, what you are saying is they probably would have a harder time in an suv. I am sorry if this is a leap for you.

    As a parent, I am much more at ease knowing they can drive just about anything.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    in terms of mass, if you are in a crash, yes. in terms of visibility, cumbersomeness, size, what have you, i don't agree at all.

    ok, teach them on a standard truck. i don't care (i would advocate the standard part...they'll be at a party or out where a friend drove a stick and is stupid drunk)...truck, van, SUV, ok...just not the primary vehicle they get to use when learning, no.

    i'm not disagreeing with you re: learning exclusively on small cars. but learning to drive is not just a physical thing. it's about reading the road, having proper situational awareness, preparing an exit if things go bad in front of you, learning not to tailgate, learning and operationalizing the rules of the road and lots more. i think that is all better done in a non-SUV.

    anyway, the point was kids driving SUVs are more likely to get in an accident. we aren't debating that are we?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    No real debate, based on the IIHS figures, and NHTSA figures

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/PPT/2003EARelease.pdf

    SMALLER cars are involved % and volume wise MORE in accidents and fatalities than suvs. As a comparison small cars are app 26% of the passenger vehicle fleet and suvs are 12-15% of the vehicle fleet. Suvs are involved app 10-11% Small cars are app 27-29%. So if the passenger vehicle fleet is 232 M, I will trust you to do the math.
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    I glanced at your link but didn't have time to completely read it. But what I propose is this: Young people, mostly teenagers, are more likely to drive smaller cars. I'm pretty sure on this but if anyone else has another view, then sound off. Small cars could also mean sports cars, I assume, since most are small. So the type of person driving would affect accident rate. Also, you need to consider how small cars are driven...I wouldn't zip in and out of traffic like a slalom if I was in an SUV (although some people *gulp* don't know the difference when they drive). Small cars handle better and usually inspire a driver to more agressive driving.
    I agree that a small car getting hit by an SUV would probably not have as good a change as an SUV being hit by a small car.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    ruking: As a parent, I am much more at ease knowing they can drive just about anything.

    I learned to drive on a 1973 AMC Gremlin, which had drum brakes all-around, absolutely NO weight over the rear wheels, and power steering absolutely devoid of road feel. If you could drive that clunker, you could drive anything.

    Today's SUVs have much more capability than that thing ever did. Heck, SUVS from the 1970s (Ford Bronco, Chevy Suburban/K-5 Blazer, Jeep Wagoneer, International Harvester Travelall) had much more capability than that Gremlin did. Somehow, I survived. So, for that matter, did a classmate in his 1969 Plymouth Road Runner (with 383 V-8 and four-speed shifter that doubled as a bicep-building machine), and another classmate in a 1972 Chevy Nova with a jacked-up back end and mag wheels.

    Maybe that's why I'm not automatically worried about kiddies behind the wheels of SUVs. Now soccer moms yakking on the cell phone while piloting GMC Denalis is another matter entirely...
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    So what you're saying is if they learn on a small car they'll have trouble driving a large SUV? But then, if they start off with a large SUV they'll still have trouble with a large SUV until they learn. I'd rather have an experienced driver behind the wheel of an SUV, even if they aren't used to driving a large vehicle than a 16 year-old on a learner's permit or someone who has no experience. I understand what you are saying but I don't agree with your logic. I started learning with a Ford Gran Torino...a large family car. It wasn't an SUV but it was big and hard to place in a lane. Then my first car I ever bought was a Honda Civic, only 40% the weight and dramatically smaller with dramatically improved sight. It was like a toy...I couldn't imaging a car would be that easy to drive. But if it had been the other way around...if I'd learned on the Civic and then moved up to the Torino, there probably wouldn't be all those scratches on the Torino, I probably wouldn't have driven up on that curb and almost killed those people and I would have been a much better driver in the Torino. You start easy and then get harder. A car isn't something you want to play around with.
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    I too learned to drive (in 1968) on a large, clumsy vehicle: a 1967 Chevy Bel Air with 3-on-the-tree (manual), no power steering, no power brakes, and drum brakes all around. So it definitely gave me the confidence to drive other more nimble vehicles.

    But I wouldn't let my kids learn to drive on a '69 Ford Econoline today. It's unsafe by any standard - you sit in the crush zone, not behind it, it has only lap belts, lacks a collapsible steering column (as cars of the era already had), and has abyssmal handling, even by 1969 criteria. It's not all that big either, compared to today's large pickups, vans, and SUVs. Plus in Alaska, aren't most rural roads still 2-lane? So all it takes is one errant driver crossing the centerline for disaster.

    Even back then, Consumer Reports gave the 1967 Ford Econoline a "Not Acceptable" rating, IIRC. I'm not all that familiar with the exact timing of the model changes, but wouldn't the '69 be similar?

    I'd recommend starting a kid on a large recent-model pickup with manual transmission if you want to give them the experience of driving a relatively "clunky" vehicle.
  • yesrohyesroh Member Posts: 290
    I still think you should start easy and then move to the more difficult vehicles. These are public roads with people who need to get places, cyclists, pedestrians, beloved pets, people in smaller cars. I don't want some kid who has never driven before to learn in a giant vehicle he's not familiar with while I'm on the road in my car, on my bicycle, walking with my wife and kids, in my front yard cutting the grass... My brother and I both drove up on sidewalks while learning on the old boat because it's hard to see out. If there had been someone on the sidewalk, my life would have changed forever. This is not a practice...this is the real thing. A mistake would be too costly.
    They don't start pilots on the big four-engine airliners to give them enough confidence so they can fly anything, do they?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Again judging by the accidents in small cars, they win the accident and fatalitiy prizes over big cars and suvs!! So a lot of folks obviously DO/DID NOT follow YOUR logic?! :(:)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "They don't start pilots on the big four-engine airliners to give them enough confidence so they can fly anything, do they? "

    No, my buddies started off in front line air superiority, air dominance tactical fighters!! Peace is sure tame in super 767 trans Alantic flights!! :)
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