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Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1297

    I think in some ways driving reflects or even stands for a or even many personal philosophy/s. While the law is very clear about what can, should, must, etc., be done, different folks have their own philosophies which in a sense can be a reason why they do or do not do a certain action. As for me, I see driving as a cooperative endeavor and I usually try to aid other driver's as it is safe and prudent.

    So for example, if it is safe and prudent to do so and I am in the passing lane: and I see someone is pulling up on my six, I don't wait till he is tailgating me to move to the right. (Principle being: stay right except to pass) While there is an expectation that the same courtesy and procedure be shown to me. I am definely aware of the fact that not all folks think like me. So in CA it is also legal to pass on the right.

    Not only is it usually best to leave the policing to the police, in CA anyway ONLY a sworn officer can issue a citation and that is only after he personally witnesses an "infraction".
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    The reason drivers are out of control these days is because of a lack of policing. There are fewer officers monitoring traffic than in days past. Whether it's because of budget cuts, too many meetings, or too many doughnut breaks, the job just isn't getting done. Even on those occasions when an officer does whitness a violation, many times they just look the other way. Aparently, they don't think traffic violations are a big deal.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    There are as most will attest, the small % of "idiot" drivers, but the truth is that given the accident and fatality rates (which are going down) and the miles driven, (which are going up) the truth is that it is really not a big deal.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    I hope it never happens, but I bet your point of view would be different if one of those idiots injured, or heaven forbid, killed one of your loved ones.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1301

    While it is a possibility, it is of very low probability (fatality). Since fully 40% of the fatalities/accidents are alcohol related, it may be disingenuous to note that it is not against the law to drink and drive! It is against the law to drink and drive and exhibit erratic behavior fitting you in the "profile" be caught and to have a BA above a certain # and or %.

    Another open secret is too many people drive while emotionally upset and or going through an emotional episode or plain just getting pissed off behind the wheel. I have never seen statistics documenting this but I am sure that it resonates, especially on threads such as this one. The effects can be the same as driving while intoxicated,or while on the cell phone. You have chosen to have WAY diminished capacity to operate your vehicle. To some extent, the low speed limits contribute to the situation.
    (leading some folks to want to pat their heads, chew gum, sing, and rub their tummies)

    i.e., do anything else except concentrate on driving. Also, it has been statistically correlated that so called "rural" roads are far more dangerous than the "freeways" or interstate s.
  • idletaskidletask Member Posts: 171
    This happened last WE, on a highway. Everybody was surprised by snow (no such snow here for 3 years) and everybody was on the rightmost lane doing a mere 45mph. Passing was hazardous since the left lane was covered with snow. Not much of it, but snow nevertheless...

    At one point I'm tailgated by a semi, go figure! It was not even 5 meters behind me. As usual I put my rear foglights on to signal it, but the driver doesn't care. At one point he's upset... and passes on the snow-covered left lane!

    Driving is his JOB, damnit. I just cannot understand how on earth he just considered passing in such conditions!
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Can't disagree with a word you said.

    Just to be clear, let me point out that my remarks in the previous message related to a 2-lane road, one lane in each direction. Your commentary mentioned a passing lane, and as such refered to a multi lane road. Therefore, your post really had nothing to do with mine.

    bottgers: The last thing we need on the roads is another vigilante. Any driver who is out to teach someone else a lesson is a problem. I see no daylight between you and a militant speeder - one is just as dangerous to me as the other. ruking1 is right that "...different folks have their own philosophies which in a sense can be a reason why they do or do not do a certain action." Some of us who you label as lawbreakers are simply trying our best to get where we are going as safely as possible. I for one find driving in a pack at the speed limit far more dangerous than driving alone between packs. I will move through a pack to get in the clear. I'm convinced that on a multi lane highway SL +5 to 10 is the safest speed to average. Self-appointed speed limit enforcers are a danger, and I avoid them.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    Sorry, but if the speed limit is 40 and the person behind me rides my tail because he's in a hurry, he'll just have to wait, unless he wants to pull over with me when the cop running radar pulls me over for speeding and tell the officer that I was only "accomodating" his needs. After all, the guy in front is going the fastest, isn't he? If the person behind wants to speed on a two lane road, wait for the road to clear, then signal, then pass. I promise I won't drag race you when you pull along side, but if you're not willing to hang them out by being the first fast car thru a speed trap, then you're going to have to learn patience. It's not policing anything.
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Bingo.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You make a good point in that other states may or may not have a law that covers passing on a two lane road. or more specifically a hair ball in a plumbing pipes duty to move over if he is blocking 5 vehicles. In CA we do and as I mentioned and it is summarily ignored.

    Just so you know my own position: At any particular time, I have established whatever speed etc for whatever reasons. I will at the earliest time and within guidelines of being safe and prudent let you pass. You can signal this any number of ways, but I move over to the right slightly to give the driver behind a better look and by inference he can see that I am not ignoring him.

    I am sure that most folks understand the difference between patience and the attitude: Up yours! And I am in front of you and I am going to flaunt it!!

    Another point I agree with is that driving in a pack is EXTREMELY dangerous. It is one of the foremost reasons why STREET RACING is outlawed !! GOIING NECK AND NECK with someone is DANGEROUS !! (Principle: leave yourself an out !!)

    Where were you when YOU PACK type drivers and advocates when you were being taught how to drive at age 15?

    Asleep in the pack ???

    When you are driving in a pack depending on where you are YOU almost can have ZERO options!

    Then you wonder why there are 6.5M accidents in a year in the USA with app 44k fatalities?
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    that if you are doing the speed limit on a two lane road, you should by all means exceed that posted speed to accomodate the faster drivers behind you and prevent the "bunching" of traffic... That the CHIP will completely understand why you, as the lead car, were doing 80 in a 55?

    Isn't that why there is a broken yellow line on two lane roads - to inform the person who would like to go faster that this area would be a good place to pass another vehicle (traffic permitting)? I guess I'm confused - I always thought that I wasn't supposed to interfere with someone in the process of passing, but I guess it's changed so that I should "accomodate" the drivers who would like to go faster. California sounds like a wonderful state.
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    I was going to make a left turn at an intersection with a green arrow followed by a "left turn yield on green". The oncomming traffic was pretty constant, so I stayed back, out of the intersection, waiting until either I get a green arrow or there is a large enough gap to make my turn.

    A black ford F150 pulls up behind me And starts honking me to go. Since 1) it was not safe to go, and 2) my 9 month old was in the car, I stood firm. The Truck swings around me then makes the left turn (blind), almost hitting me and an oncomming car.
  • tbonertboner Member Posts: 402
    Thats a tough one. There are many times when I see an opening big enough to put a tractor trailer through in your situation, but the person in front of me doesn't seem as confident.

    While it is annoying, it would have to be an extraordinary circumstance for me to pass on the right and then make a left in front of the first car in the left turn lane.

    It sounds like the guy behind you was very inconsiderate.

    TB
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1308

    If you categoricaly ignore the law or what I have been saying, I can see one coming to this conclusion.

    So, if the speed limit is 55 mph and YOU chose to go 35,40,50,55 or whatever that is your choice, unless you are stopped by a CHP for going too slow. (Again not much chance of being stopped) So by CA law, if you are impeding 5 or more cars, you are bound to pull over to a turn out area or just pull over to let your inadvertent parade go by!!
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    1. Two lane road
    2. Speed limit 55 mph
    3. I am going 60 mph.
    4. Person behind me wants to go 80 mph.
    5. I am already "breaking the law" by exceeding the speed limit.
    6. 5 over is not fast enough for my lane mate.
    7. There is no paved shoulder for me to move over on to (like in Texas)
    8. CHP car parked along intersecting road - cars are backed behind me. What ticket does he write - one for speeding, or one for impedeing the flow of traffic?

    The topic isn't about drivng 45 in a 55 - it's about driving 55 or 60 in a 55 and having someone ride your bumper because, in his or her eyes, that's not fast enough.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I say move over, or is that answer too simple? Are there more options? Absolutely.

    On one of many trips to the Florida Keys, once to go diving,as you know the road constricts down to a two lane job and is narrow to boot. Some guy with his hair on fire takes to the left (oncoming traffic) and true to form there is on coming traffic, a tractor trailer rig if memory serves me correctly. I pull over knowing that he is not going to make it.As he pulls into where I would have been if I had not moved, He, of course flips me the finger like it is my fault he almost causes a head on. The next thing I know right behind this guy with full lights and siren blaring is an FHP. I take it he was not impressed with the pass or the finger salute. As we went by, we gave the idiot the thumbs up and stopped to watch the felony take down drill! One time a cop was there when you needed him! :)
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    and there is no shoulder, move over where?
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    .....but it's wrong. Why should the person who is obeying the law move out of the way so the people behind can't violate the law? Here's the way I see it. If people want to speed, fine, but don't impose your violation on other drivers who choose to obey the law by tailgating or doing other dangerous crap. If you're speeding and you approach the rear of another driver who is driving the speed limit, you need to back off until you can safely pass. Is that simple enough?
  • target3target3 Member Posts: 155
    Two-lane road, I am already speeding (70 in a 55). No way I am going to pull off the road and waste my time turning around to get back on the road just to accomodate you. And I am also not trying to impede you (driving 50 in a 55 would be a different story). You need to wait for a passing zone and pass - plain and simple.

    You can tailgate. But the driver in front of you could have a phone, or something worse, in his/her car.

    I do not know about you, but I have been hit from behind before. Due to that, my patience threshhold on tailgating is about 2 seconds.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If you guys are having a hard time doing the appropriate thing at the appropriate time, perhaps it is better than you all remain behind the guys that you would like to pass.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1316

    No, I have not been hit from behind, because I am cognizant of the fact that if I am not causing the accidents, the most likely way that I will be involved in accidents is if someone hits me from behind! So I integrate my actions with this in mind. So if a guy behind you is signaling you by getting so close behind you, I pull over. As soon as they get in front of me, not too many folks like to be staring in the rear view mirror at a fence bumper. So if that causes them to re evaluate the situation, so much the better. The operative survival goal is not to be involved in accidents You can be right, but I would submit dead right is not a suitable alternative to me.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    It's the folks who don't feel that they should put themselves are risk by entering the wrong lane on a two lane road to pass US. Instead, they feel that trailing our rear bumpers at less than a foot should indicate that we are blocking his path and should do something about it...even if we already are 15 to 20 over the speed limit. Heaven forbid a cop be over the next hill, requiring rapid deceleration to bring us back to within the "no ticket" range. At least then, we'd have a pretty credible witness when the person who has a "left lane aversion" finally makes contact with our rear bumper.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    Two lane road - no shoulder. Speed limit 55. You are going 70. I am on your bumper because I want to go 85, 90 or whatever speed you're not going. A side road approachs. YOu slow and turn so as not to impede my progress. You get turned around, and back on the road, back up to 70 when all of the sudden, alfox comes blasting up on your bumper. Another road. Another turn. Another unimpeded driver. Bck thru the routine, back up to 70 and then here comes bottgers...how many times will you have to pull off the road until you say "Enough!"? I heard Californians are pretty laid back, but geez...seems like you'd eventually like to get to your destination.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If your cop over the hill scenario is so common, why don't you let him take care of it? Cause it is not? Or you really don't like getting out of folks way?
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Member Posts: 363
    I witnessed the bad effects of a LLCer who thought by policing the left lane they were doing the world a favor, but in fact were doing it a world of harm.

    He was in the left lane, going exactly 70mph. There were 3 semis going exactly 70 as well. There was a line of about 20 cars behind the LLCer.

    And at the very end of the line of cars was an Ambulance with their lights flashing and horns blaring.

    Because the idiot LLCer thought he was in the right(while he could not see of hear the Ambulance), every single one of the cars behind him had to brake until they were behind the 3 semis on the right, and pull to the right lane behind them. This took about 5 minutes to do...meanwhile the LLCer didnt move. It wasnt until the semi in the right lane in front of the other two braked, slowing down enough for the ambulance to pass on the right, that the ambulance could procede.

    When you block the left lane, you are a danger to other drivers, whether you are going the speed limit or under or over. It doesnt matter...because you lock them into a position that they can not get out of, save for braking and manuevering out of the way(which in itself is a danger and a cause of traffic congestion).
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1322

    AMEN !!!

    Not that is is a bad thing, because you are here in the USA, but you all would have a hard time driving in Europe.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    I am in complete agreement with you when there is a left lane to camp in. But what's your feeling when the "left" lane is the lane reserved for oncoming traffic?
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Member Posts: 363
    When the passing lane is for oncoming traffic, in other words, one lane in each direction, you are not on a Freeway.

    This is a case where everybody pulls to the side of the road, even oncoming traffic.

    On a freeway, it is safer to pull into the right lane and drive slowly than it is to pull over and stop.
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    and then there are two-lane roads.

    One type, that I think we have been discussing mostly, are 2-lane highways, in the open country, with a speed limit greater than, say, 50 mph.

    The other are suburban or urban roads with speed limits of 45 or under.

    On the former kind of roads, I can see where helping traffic behind pass, if possible without causing more disruption, is courteous and wise

    On the latter roads, driving through suburbia at 35 mph with a double yellow line, if I'm doing the limit and you're behind and want desperately to go faster... well I suggest you get over it.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1320

    You all should learn how to pass under those types of conditions!! :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You know guys, I stand a better chance gagging on a poh boy sandwich and dying, than I do of getting in a roadside fatality. If any of you have doubts about your skills or want to do a refresher, I would highly recommend a highway survival course! I sent my teenage girl, after one year of driving in the silicon valley, ca environment. She not only had the time of her life behind the wheel, but was only one second behind the instructors fastest time in the slalom course. I also will send my other teenage girl when it is time for her.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    Just be sure to tell her that if someone is on a two lane road and they aren't going fast enough for her liking to remember to keep a safe distance from the person in front until it's safe to pass.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    You just don't get it do you? Again, the appropriate thing to do isn't for the law abiding driver to make way for the speeders. If you want to speed, keep it to yourself. Don't impose your law breaking ways on those who wish to abide by the laws.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1330
    Sorry it is the other way around, YOU don't get it! If I am the one in front and advocate letting others pass me, how do you turn it around to say I have the law breaking ways? Are you having an emotional fit? Now that can and does cloud judgement!

    Since this is the age of the cell phone, when you see those who you think are scofflaws, you should pull over and use your cell phone to report them. (Then you will get the attitude that is so prevalent.)

    ("Give me your token and get your A.. to the back of the bus")

    I once reported a apt house fire with flames and smoke leaping like crazy that I could see it from the freeway as I passed it. The CHP dispatcher was also angry when she got the dispatcher in the city that it was in. Even she could tell I was giving precise instructions. The only thing the city dispatcher could ask me was WHAT WAS THE EXACT ADDRESS.

    (GEE, I don't know, I can see it from the freeway 400 ft from exit so and so in your city and on the freeway I can see it app 600 ft from the freeway (ever hear of triangulation?) Well, they found out soon enough as the fire department in charge let it burn down around the foundations. Were they late? With a dispatcher like that what would you think? So you really think they care. eh? That dispatcher probably got promoted after that traject fire.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    .....did you know we're supposed yield the right of way to the outlaws? That's what ruking1 says anyway.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1332

    You don't need any enemies- you have got you!

    Enjoy all those cell phone talking folks, you seem to notice and people putting on their makeup.
  • c01c01 Member Posts: 28
    Jim Boy you are suffering from tunnel vision. When did it become your function to to decide who is an outlaw. If you are collecting a large group of followers on a two lane highway the prudent thing would be to pull over/ and or slow down in a safe location and let the faster moving vehicles pass. If you are about to pass through an intersection and you observe another vehicle about to run a red light would you slow down or keep your current speed and risk an accident. Depending on the jurisdiction you may heave the legal "right" to hold up traffic, and you do have the legal "right" to proceed on a green light, but again in both cases you may be "dead" right.
  • geoffdgtigeoffdgti Member Posts: 83
    I'm from the "get the heck out of my stinkin' way" school of driving. Comes from being a Massachusetts native and a habitual speeder. On a divided highway, I only use the left lane to pass and I get out of the way when somebody is approaching me at high speed. Of course, I get as irate as anyone else when I'm in a loooong line of traffic in the left lane and the dork behind me is flashing his high beams at me. Makes me want to jam on the emergency brake to teach the guy a lesson.

    Can you buy anti-car missiles from North Korea yet? You'd think that'd really help Hyundai, Daewoo and Kia sales.
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    "get the heck outta my face" school of driving. If I'm driving on a 2-lane suburban road at the speed limit or better, and someone behind me is unsatisfied with my speed, I figure that is their problem not mine. If there is a passing zone, have at it - I'll slow a bit and keep to the right to help, but other than that they are on their own.

    I suppose my attitude comes from being a 35+ year resident of Massachusetts who is NOT a native, lol! (I think I recognize you, geoffdgti ;^) )
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    I agree with the "left lane hogs", but again I ask, what do you do when the left lane contains oncoming traffic...as in - you are one a two lane road??? Apparently in California, one should exit the roadway by turning at the first available side road, or stopping on the shoulder and allow the one desiring to go faster to go past them. Is there a similar law in Mass? I get has hacked as the next guy when I'm on a two lane 55 mph road and the guy in front goes no faster than 40. But at the first opportunity I have to safely pass him, I do so. The beef we have been discussing is when YOU are the lead car on a two lane road going 70 in a 55 and the person behind you rides your bumper, imploring you to "get outta my way" and is unwilling to make use of the passing zones.
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    no, there is no such law in MA.
  • pat84pat84 Member Posts: 817
    Didn't this ever so polite exchange of ideas, start with a discussion of tailgating ?
    It appears that one of the posters must be quite used to it as they decide what speed is appropriate for everyone. My approach to passing on a two lane highway is not to tailgate, but to actually drop back a few car lengths. I can use that distance to accelerate right up to Jim, hop into the oncoming lane and be around him before he even notices that I am on my cell phone, or putting on chap tick..
    It does require me to 1) look for on coming traffic (one reason I like daytime running lights) and check my rear view mirror to make sure no one is passing me, because I have to go slower than Jim to get acceleration room.
    I have been driving long enough to remember that most highways were 2 lanes, one each direction, and passing was done as I described. I wasn't sure of who was holding up all that traffic, now I know it was Jim.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    What defines "holding up traffic"? IMHO, 40 in a 55 is holding up traffic. But is 70 in a 55 really holding anybody up? Again, let's stick with two lane roads here - from what I've seen, someone going 70 is holding up someone who wants to go 75, who in turn will hold up someone wanting to go 80, who will eventually hold up someone who wants to go 90. And, from my past experience, if someone is going 140 and another person has a car capable of 150, they'll want to go faster. It just seems that nobody is happy being "second in line" regardless of how fast they are going...they all have to be the leader. So bottom line, we are all holding up someone else. Keep checking your mirrors boys, pretty soon you'll see Art Arfons and the Green MOnster looming behind you.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Because I want to drive the speed limit, I'm the bad guy? You speeders crack me up! Since when does the speeder have the right of way over the non-speeder? And again, I'm not talking about LLC, I'm talking about driving on a 2 lane road.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Not too long ago I was in the states of NM, AZ, and CO.. Many legs of the trips were on the classic "two lane black tops" and even some travel time on the historic Route 66. Again, passing on two lanes in NM was smooth as silk whether passing 1 or 7 cars at a time.. While 7 cars take long to pass, the reason 7 cars had to be passed is the tendency of folks chosing the "packing" procedure. So I don't see why you see 2 lane passing as the "holy grail " of difficulty. Really the only difficulty is the "packing" procedure some folks follow.

    Again easy and courteous and safe, if that means anything to you dangerous and clueless types. If you know someone behind you wants to pass, pull over slightly right so he has a clearer view, drop back enough car lengths so he has "an out" in case he misjudges the ahead road conditions. Then let him PASS!!! It actually takes longer to describe this procedure on paper than it does to do it in reality.

    The truth is a lot of you sound dangerous and clueless with your passive aggressive "up yours" attitude.

    Please stay in your selected mindsets at your selected places. And let me know when you come out to this area. I not only will let you pass , I will even stay out of your way. I'd like to maintain my record of zero accidents and zero traffic tickets in over 1M miles.
  • idletaskidletask Member Posts: 171
    When someone in front of me goes slower than me, I stay two seconds behind him at our current speed. When there's an opening, and if the road signs allow for this, I pass. I only get closer when a curve is ahead and it's without visibility - who knows, there may be a straight line behind that curve...

    If I can't pass, I mourn, yell, whatever, but I restrain from dangerous driving. I'm a firm believer in Murphy's Law, so taking any risk is not an option :)
  • alfoxalfox Member Posts: 708
    Who says you're the bad guy? If, as you said, you're driving speed limit +5, just drive on. We'll pass if we can. Facilitating that by moving over a bit to help is not "yielding the right of way", but simple courtesy - something you seem to be short of. It's not your driving that is a problem, it's the attitude that comes across in your words.

    Near as I can tell, nobody disagrees here - we're just tweaked by bottgers' moralizing. True?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1344

    He has certainly been consistent in this attitude, so in the real world, if he demonstrated that, I would treat him as dangerous and clue less till he demonstrates otherwise.

    The other secret is that folks "advertise" as they drive . Knowing that, if one ignores the "bad advertisements" one does it at ones own peril.

    I try to keep in mind the whole scheme of the driving picture.
  • geoffdgtigeoffdgti Member Posts: 83
    pjyoung asks:
    Apparently in California, one should exit the roadway by turning at the first available side road, or stopping on the shoulder and allow the one desiring to go faster to go past them. Is there a similar law in Mass?

    Nope. In Massachusetts, we simply pass in the breakdown lane or the shoulder. The left lane is for wimps. I now live in New Hampshire so I've had to alter my driving technique significantly. I recently discovered that my car actually has one of those turn signal thingies. In Massachusetts, we only use "hand signals".

    I've also lived in Vermont and I'm in the state every weekend during the winter skiing. In Vermont, it's legal to pass on a double yellow line unless the road is marked with "Do Not Pass" signs. Also, the car going downhill on a single lane road has the right of way over the car going uphill.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #1346

    I have driven in ever state of the union except for Alaska. The rule I follow is "when in Rome do what the Romans do".

    Passing in the breakdown lane is against the law in CA

    Passing on a double yellow line is verboten.

    The car going UP the hill has the right of way.

    Most rules are used only to codify what does actually work or reflect local idiocyncracies and in the worst case, affix blame when an accident or fatality happens. So everything is a very easy adjustment as long as you know what it is that needs adjusting.
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