Oh, that's right. For some reason I was thinking he was from the Spokane area. Ah, well, I tried. I am not overly familiar with the southwest portion of Washington.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
You're not missing a whole lot...lots of trees and some nice scenery, but it's an area I am afraid has very little future without some kind of economic revolution.
This is true if you are not a person who appreciates the great outdoors more than the inside of a stuffy library with a boring book.
SW WA includes great Alpine skiing, White Pass, in the Winter. Water skiing is abundant on many lakes i.e. Mayfield, Merwin, & others. Steelhead and Salmon fishing on the Columbia, clam digging at the Ocean shore, not to mention the hunting of Deer and Elk. Mt. St. Helens will get you to stop and out of the car.
We also have great orchestras in Vancouver and Longview and the general population is happy and friendly.
Portland has great operas, and orchestras, and tax free Costcos.
SW WA is great if you're an active outdoor person. Mercer Island it is not.
The pass is less than an hour from my home, and I don't like seafood, so I am not missing much there :P
I will say I like to hike around St. Helens - done it several times, and Oregon can be worth a little drive - it has enough of its own little quirks to make it seem different. Just gas up before you go, unless you trust the pump jockies :shades:
The highlight of the area, even with the slowpokes, is the low traffic volume. Cheap property is nice too, but there's not a lot of employment to pay those mortgages.
Oh, and another inconsiderate thing...people here will pull out from a side street right in front of you no matter your speed or distance. I suspect they don't even look.
You got me confused with someone else. I'm the Spokane guy. 4 seasons, hot summers, cold winters, and nowhere near the traffic issues on the west side. LIttle slice of heaven
Thanks for setting me straight, fellas. My life is a bastion of confusion.
I agree with you there, Paul. I absolutely love eastern Oregon and Washington, aside from the stifling summer heat (but at least the humidity is low!). In general, my affinity for an area is inversely proportional to the number of people per square mile.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
We occasionally get single-digit humidity here. Nowhere near the stifling outdoor saunas of some other regions.
Still lots of open space here. You can live in a near-rural atmosphere & still only be 10 minutes away from the grocery store. Fewer inconsiderate drivers as well
Hello everyone. I see that there is talk about the beautiful states of Washington, and Oregon. I also like Idaho, Montana, and Yellow Stone Nat. Park.
I got this title off of USA Today and thought for your readers in Washington and Oregon, it might be interested in the headline/destinations
Washington, Wisconsin on a roll as most bike-friendly states, By Cory Dellenbach, Shawano (Wis.) Leader, via APWashington, Wisconsin on a roll as most bike-friendly states by Jayne Clark, USA TODAY
The League of American Bicyclists ranked the states based on a 75-item list aimed at determining their "commitment to bicyclinges, "
Do these states have laws regulating bicycles and cars, or just cars? Don't know but we will be touring around Yellowstone this fall and will cruise through East Washington and down into Oregon and finally home in Disnyland, er, California.
I will be vigliant looking for bicycles to avoid.
Hope all are having a wonderful week end and good luck and stay safe.
I don't think I want to recharge the bike issue, but a teen got hit here biking last week. The kid was on the sidewalk but cruising along where driveway aprons led into a convenience store or strip mall. The driver didn't see the teen because he was looking for traffic on the road.
The conclusion was that it's safer for bikes to share the road instead of sticking to the sidewalk.
I had an older Miata overnight. Was a hoot. I don't even know if the top even went up. This morning I cruised down a stretch of 4 lane interurban highway and everyone got stopped at a light. I was about 4 cars back.
Two yahoos in two diesel pickups decided to play Mario Andretti in the front row. Fortunately the black stink bombs they left behind were mostly disipated by the time I got to the intersection.
Then the Miata failed IM this morning so I gave it back to the owner. :sick:
I seem to have noticed a new trend with diesel pick-ups and big rig exhausts. Most of them seem to think the exhausts and banks turbos gives them license to race from stoplight to stoplight. I hear them all the time from my porch and run into them on my morning commute. Most have these ridiculous twin stacks protruding from the truck beds and belch the same exhaust as the local transit buses. not so fun being caught behind them and breathing in that black smoke. its not like they are any great shakes at attaining fast velocity. they just seem to like to see how much smoke they can produce.
Is there any onus of responsibility that should be assumed by the cyclist? Should maybe the cyclist also be expected to be alert for cars coming in and out of driveways? I know when I walk in congested areas I am hyper-alert for cars making random turns. Would this cyclist being on the road not create issues of its own, especially if the road travels much faster than the average cyclist is capable?
I love seeing overcompensating diesel trucks with exhaust modifications or stacks which make them both louder and sometimes smokier. Size issues....
And it's awesome vehicles over a certain weight are virtually exempt from environmental and safety regulations. Who says previous governments didn't give gifts to automakers? :sick:
..."And it's awesome vehicles over a certain weight are virtually exempt from environmental and safety regulations. Who says previous governments didn't give gifts to automakers? "....
Yes. It is a "feel good" issue that my (MASSIVE ) 1.9 L diesel is exempt from mandatory smog checks.
Is there any onus of responsibility that should be assumed by the cyclist?
The "burden" is on the driver of the car as they have to yield right of way to traffic on the sidewalk if the cross a sidewalk (either coming out of a driveway or parking lot.
That doesn't mean that the cyclist should not be aware of whats going on and keep his/her eyes open.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
In most parts of the country cyclists are not allowed to ride on sidewalks. They are required to follow the same rules as motorists. All the rules. Sidewalks are made for pedestrians. Makes sense to me....
Apparently it's ok in Idaho to ride on the sidewalk but pedestrians have the right of way. It's probably local option whether bikes are allowed on sidewalks in town.
Anchorage forbids bikes on sidewalks in the downtown core, or so I always heard. Some woman, I think, got killed (or injured... dunno) decades ago by someone on a bike on the sidewalk downtown.
Here children below a certain age can ride on the sidewalk, all others need to be on the road of designated bike path. Certain sidewalks (like in shopping areas) are completely off limits to bikes. Plus there are some areas where the sidewalk is either a bike path or right next to one.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
True - and very strange. I think they simply like to hear the exhaust note, and the exhaust note requires more gas, more money generally. The other strange thing is the individuals doing it seldom need the utility of a pick-up.
We have a neighbor that complains about another neighbor's diesel pick-up. He commutes (Diesel dork Bob) so every morning early he goes through some sort of "performance" that is obviously only enjoyed by him while he starts it up.
I like pick-ups but unless I see it coming off a farm road, a contractor going to a job site or and old guy with a hat on driving it, I think they're all pretty much brain dead....... And deaf.
On a side note, not to spark a tired old subject, ask Lance Armstrong about "Billy-Bobs" in their pick-ups. I think he mentions it in his book. Not the brightest bulbs on the planet.
"On the inconsiderate driver note, my brother is certain the driver of the SUV was on the phone or eating while driving, as he failed to stop on an open clear road on a beautiful clear day."
This is one of those "Don't get me started" topics..... Everybody would be outraged if the driver was drunk when he rear-ended the car. Texting, cell phones or eating the burger is still looked at as non-consequential. Such a tired old subject that has a blatant lack of common sense by many drivers, selfish drivers.
I was tailgated in pouring rain in heavy traffic by a F250 diesel (I could hear it over the rain and the noise of my car) yesterday evening, for a period of a mile or two. Something about those trucks either causes brain damage or is indicative of it. They always seem to go a bit faster than other traffic in inclement weather. They also love to rev and be stupid when driving up the hill I love on.
I find it interesting that there seems to be a major push to outlaw cell phone use while driving and even some states have succeeded in doing so. On the other hand, (and I know this is a tired subject), cell phone use is no more distracting than eating, changing the radio, digging for a new CD, blah blah blah. Usually the latter involves removing one's eyes from the road to apply that fire sauce to that mondo burrito or reach over under the passenger seat to dig for that barely working CD or try and plug in that iPod connector you forgot to do before pulling out and have to use two hands to do it.
I just find it interesting that no laws are being pushed to prohibit these things as well. I think that instead of just focusing on cell phone bans, there should be passed a law that prohibits all such activities. Maybe not just a blanket prohibition, but more like severe and stiff penalties even jail time if it is found that you caused an accident while doing one these several distracting things. You don't have to out and out prohibit it all because people are still going to do them regardless if there is a law against them or not, but if they are aware of the penalties involved if they cause an accident while doing them, then that might make them think a little bit more about the consequences of driving while distracted. And if you cause the death of someone while doing these things?? Well, then the penalties should be no less than if you were driving drunk. Of course, some of these penalties are pretty lax too.
Back when there were starting to put radios in cars the argument was that they would distract drivers. Now the truth be told I have seen many more people on cell phones driving perfectly fine than I have seen people on cell phones driving bad, far many more. I am still not convinced that talking to someone on a cell phone is any worse than talking to someone in the car. At least when they are on the cell phone they are not tempted to turn to look at the person they are talking to. I have actually seen more than one accident caused by someone talking to someone else in the car.
I was once rear ended by someone distracted by their kids in the back seat. I would suspect that many accidents were caused by that. Maybe we should ban kids from being in the car.
I would like to mention that this accident could have been caused by something outside the drivers control. I was once stung by a bee while driving, now if you want to talk about a major, but momentary, distraction this one is it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
On the other hand, (and I know this is a tired subject), cell phone use is no more distracting than eating, changing the radio, digging for a new CD, blah blah blah.
Not so. Check out the cell phone board on Edmunds.
Many cell phone drivers are inconsiderate of other drivers, and pedestrians, period. They are selfish, believe that "their" Time is more valuable than safety. They foolishly believe in nonsense such as "multi-tasking".
I was a cell phone driver many, many years ago. From my own humble experience I say that brain/thought processes in an ongoing cell conversation take away considerable more concentration from driving task than do eating a candy bar or changing a radio station. Tests have proven as much.
I would like to mention that this accident could have been caused by something outside the drivers control. I was once stung by a bee while driving, now if you want to talk about a major, but momentary, distraction this one is it.
Let me guess here. For every 100 million cell conversations (in US.)conducted by vehicle drivers there is "ONE" bee sting of a vehicle driver. Bee sting is a non-issue, especially today with the prevalence of air-conditioning.
No more so than the eaters, drinkers, child smackers, ICE players, etc etc etc. Addressing one evil when the roads are filled with many will have a negligible effect, especially as the regulations are virtually unenforceable anyway. Go after them all, or don't waste publicly funded resources on one while the others get a free pass.
"Tests"...bankrolled by who, for the benefit of who?
No more so than the eaters, drinkers, child smackers, ICE players, etc etc etc.
Consider proportionality. Let's see, for every 10,000 driver cell conversations today, there will be one instance of child smacking - and it might be a cell using parent which is doubly bad. Ever heard of Pareto?
A non-issue? Only if it was not the cause of the distraction! Sure, it may be rare, but I agree with snake - it is exceptionally distracting.
I nearly crashed a vehicle as a teenager, probably 17, due to this. I was tooling along on my way home, driving at about 55 mph in my Dad's old '79 pickup on a very narrow two-lane road. Suddenly, a bee is swept in through the window and is trapped between my eye and my glasses. I instinctively swiped my glasses off my face to free the bee. It only took a moment to occur but, in that moment, I was fully distracted from driving. That was enough time to drift slightly to the right and onto the soft, gravely shoulder. The truck quickly was sucked into the ditch. I *almost* over-corrected but caught myself, got the truck under control, and managed to slowly bring it back up onto the roadway. I ended up pulling off at the next driveway to catch my wits, find my glasses, and let the bee out of the truck!
Granted, inexperience played a role in this near-disaster, but things like this do happen. I was very fortunate that the circumstances were as described rather than in a high-volume setting. The ditch could have just as easily been another car.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Haha; you have a good point, fintail. I liked the earlier suggestion that avoidable distractions be grouped together into a classification of increased penalty should another infraction take place. For example, if in a collision or receiving a citation for speeding, etc., the fine is increased. It places the responsibility on the driver, essentially saying "it is up to you whether you engage in these activities, but be aware that doing so increases your risk."
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Consider proportionality. Let's see, for every 10,000 driver cell conversations today, there will be one instance of child smacking
Lets see I was once rear ended by some one disciplining their kids, so by your statistics I should have been hit by 10,000 cell phone users. So far none have hit me.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wasn't comparing cell phone use to bee stings. What I was stating that we don't know what was distracting the driver in the accident that fintails brother was in. Fintails brother said he was certain he was on a cell phone, but from how it was written it appears to be nothing but conjecture (as opposed to saying "I saw him on the cell phone").
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
We've all seen the inconsiderate yahoo on a cell phone do dumb manuevers. Of course there are some of us who can drive and talk on the phone at the same time. Chew gum and change the radio station too. Heck...I can sneeze and fart at the same time too.. :P
I have always said that an inconsiderate driver is inconsiderate on or off the phone and a considerate driver is considerate on and off the phone. Those that don't pay attention when they are on the phone most likely don't pay attention when they are off the phone.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Ok I am riding my bike down a side street off to the side of the road. Some lady in a van passes me and then immediately makes a right turn infront of me missing me by a few feet. :surprise:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I've had that happen to me more than once. Bicycles just don't seem to register on some people. Once you are out of their immediate view, you cease to exist, if they even noticed you in the first place. :sick:
While that might be true in some cases, I think it is more like since they know they are in front of you, it is up to the GIB to adjust (guy/girl in back) (nothing new here, that has always been the drill) . Indeed if you as the biycle were to REAR END the car, it will probablly be called your fault.
I don't think so... I'm talking about people who have made a right turn in front of me (and/or people I know) before they have actually completed the pass. The bike doesn't rear-end the car, it hits the side!
That's like changing lanes in front of some one before your rear bumper clears their front bumper, then blaming them for being in the way. Fault is clearly evident.
That was NOT the case you were describing in the previous post.
So if you are describing a case where the turning vehicle is NOT in front of a bike vehicle...So yes, if one makes a right hand turn across the bike lane with a bike in it, most likely it will be ruled the right turning vehicles' fault.
Comments
This is true if you are not a person who appreciates the great outdoors more than the inside of a stuffy library with a boring book.
SW WA includes great Alpine skiing, White Pass, in the Winter. Water skiing is abundant on many lakes i.e. Mayfield, Merwin, & others. Steelhead and Salmon fishing on the Columbia, clam digging at the Ocean shore, not to mention the hunting of Deer and Elk. Mt. St. Helens will get you to stop and out of the car.
We also have great orchestras in Vancouver and Longview and the general population is happy and friendly.
Portland has great operas, and orchestras, and tax free Costcos.
SW WA is great if you're an active outdoor person. Mercer Island it is not.
I will say I like to hike around St. Helens - done it several times, and Oregon can be worth a little drive - it has enough of its own little quirks to make it seem different. Just gas up before you go, unless you trust the pump jockies :shades:
The highlight of the area, even with the slowpokes, is the low traffic volume. Cheap property is nice too, but there's not a lot of employment to pay those mortgages.
Oh, and another inconsiderate thing...people here will pull out from a side street right in front of you no matter your speed or distance. I suspect they don't even look.
4 seasons, hot summers, cold winters, and nowhere near the traffic issues on the west side. LIttle slice of heaven
Cheers!
Paul
Thanks for setting me straight, fellas. My life is a bastion of confusion.
I agree with you there, Paul. I absolutely love eastern Oregon and Washington, aside from the stifling summer heat (but at least the humidity is low!). In general, my affinity for an area is inversely proportional to the number of people per square mile.
We occasionally get single-digit humidity here. Nowhere near the stifling outdoor saunas of some other regions.
Still lots of open space here. You can live in a near-rural atmosphere & still only be 10 minutes away from the grocery store. Fewer inconsiderate drivers as well
Cheers!
Paul
I got this title off of USA Today and thought for your readers in Washington and Oregon, it might be interested in the headline/destinations
Washington, Wisconsin on a roll as most bike-friendly states, By Cory Dellenbach, Shawano (Wis.) Leader, via APWashington, Wisconsin on a roll as most bike-friendly states by Jayne Clark, USA TODAY
The League of American Bicyclists ranked the states based on a 75-item list aimed at determining their "commitment to bicyclinges, "
Do these states have laws regulating bicycles and cars, or just cars? Don't know but we will be touring around Yellowstone this fall and will cruise through East Washington and down into Oregon and finally home in Disnyland, er, California.
I will be vigliant looking for bicycles to avoid.
Hope all are having a wonderful week end and good luck and stay safe.
jensad
The conclusion was that it's safer for bikes to share the road instead of sticking to the sidewalk.
I had an older Miata overnight. Was a hoot. I don't even know if the top even went up. This morning I cruised down a stretch of 4 lane interurban highway and everyone got stopped at a light. I was about 4 cars back.
Two yahoos in two diesel pickups decided to play Mario Andretti in the front row. Fortunately the black stink bombs they left behind were mostly disipated by the time I got to the intersection.
Then the Miata failed IM this morning so I gave it back to the owner. :sick:
What is "IM"?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I love seeing overcompensating diesel trucks with exhaust modifications or stacks which make them both louder and sometimes smokier. Size issues....
And it's awesome vehicles over a certain weight are virtually exempt from environmental and safety regulations. Who says previous governments didn't give gifts to automakers? :sick:
Yes. It is a "feel good"
The "burden" is on the driver of the car as they have to yield right of way to traffic on the sidewalk if the cross a sidewalk (either coming out of a driveway or parking lot.
That doesn't mean that the cyclist should not be aware of whats going on and keep his/her eyes open.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
To wit, there is not a day that goes by, that there is not at least one bike driver who is coming at you in the WRONG direction.
Anchorage forbids bikes on sidewalks in the downtown core, or so I always heard. Some woman, I think, got killed (or injured... dunno) decades ago by someone on a bike on the sidewalk downtown.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
True - and very strange. I think they simply like to hear the exhaust note, and the exhaust note requires more gas, more money generally. The other strange thing is the individuals doing it seldom need the utility of a pick-up.
We have a neighbor that complains about another neighbor's diesel pick-up. He commutes (Diesel dork Bob) so every morning early he goes through some sort of "performance" that is obviously only enjoyed by him while he starts it up.
I like pick-ups but unless I see it coming off a farm road, a contractor going to a job site or and old guy with a hat on driving it, I think they're all pretty much brain dead....... And deaf.
On a side note, not to spark a tired old subject, ask Lance Armstrong about "Billy-Bobs" in their pick-ups. I think he mentions it in his book. Not the brightest bulbs on the planet.
This is one of those "Don't get me started" topics..... Everybody would be outraged if the driver was drunk when he rear-ended the car. Texting, cell phones or eating the burger is still looked at as non-consequential. Such a tired old subject that has a blatant lack of common sense by many drivers, selfish drivers.
Well maybe you should make love on another hill, or better yet in the privacy of your own home. :P
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I just find it interesting that no laws are being pushed to prohibit these things as well. I think that instead of just focusing on cell phone bans, there should be passed a law that prohibits all such activities. Maybe not just a blanket prohibition, but more like severe and stiff penalties even jail time if it is found that you caused an accident while doing one these several distracting things. You don't have to out and out prohibit it all because people are still going to do them regardless if there is a law against them or not, but if they are aware of the penalties involved if they cause an accident while doing them, then that might make them think a little bit more about the consequences of driving while distracted. And if you cause the death of someone while doing these things?? Well, then the penalties should be no less than if you were driving drunk. Of course, some of these penalties are pretty lax too.
I was once rear ended by someone distracted by their kids in the back seat. I would suspect that many accidents were caused by that. Maybe we should ban kids from being in the car.
I would like to mention that this accident could have been caused by something outside the drivers control. I was once stung by a bee while driving, now if you want to talk about a major, but momentary, distraction this one is it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not so. Check out the cell phone board on Edmunds.
Many cell phone drivers are inconsiderate of other drivers, and pedestrians, period. They are selfish, believe that "their" Time is more valuable than safety. They foolishly believe in nonsense such as "multi-tasking".
I was a cell phone driver many, many years ago. From my own humble experience I say that brain/thought processes in an ongoing cell conversation take away considerable more concentration from driving task than do eating a candy bar or changing a radio station. Tests have proven as much.
Let me guess here. For every 100 million cell conversations (in US.)conducted by vehicle drivers there is "ONE" bee sting of a vehicle driver. Bee sting is a non-issue, especially today with the prevalence of air-conditioning.
"Tests"...bankrolled by who, for the benefit of who?
Consider proportionality. Let's see, for every 10,000 driver cell conversations today, there will be one instance of child smacking - and it might be a cell using parent which is doubly bad. Ever heard of Pareto?
You are kindly asked to provide something showing anything near those numbers. Put up or...well, you know...
Should cell phone drivers be singled out?
Maybe someone who wants us to learn about pareto needs to learn about hyperbole :shades:
I nearly crashed a vehicle as a teenager, probably 17, due to this. I was tooling along on my way home, driving at about 55 mph in my Dad's old '79 pickup on a very narrow two-lane road. Suddenly, a bee is swept in through the window and is trapped between my eye and my glasses. I instinctively swiped my glasses off my face to free the bee. It only took a moment to occur but, in that moment, I was fully distracted from driving. That was enough time to drift slightly to the right and onto the soft, gravely shoulder. The truck quickly was sucked into the ditch. I *almost* over-corrected but caught myself, got the truck under control, and managed to slowly bring it back up onto the roadway. I ended up pulling off at the next driveway to catch my wits, find my glasses, and let the bee out of the truck!
Granted, inexperience played a role in this near-disaster, but things like this do happen. I was very fortunate that the circumstances were as described rather than in a high-volume setting. The ditch could have just as easily been another car.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/05/motorcyclist-killed-by-driver-paintin- g-fingernails.html
Inconsiderate drivers are all distracted drivers, not just phone yappers.
Lets see I was once rear ended by some one disciplining their kids, so by your statistics I should have been hit by 10,000 cell phone users. So far none have hit me.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Of course there are some of us who can drive and talk on the phone at the same time. Chew gum and change the radio station too. Heck...I can sneeze and fart at the same time too.. :P
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That's like changing lanes in front of some one before your rear bumper clears their front bumper, then blaming them for being in the way. Fault is clearly evident.
So if you are describing a case where the turning vehicle is NOT in front of a bike vehicle...So yes, if one makes a right hand turn across the bike lane with a bike in it, most likely it will be ruled the right turning vehicles' fault.