Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

xwesx

Yeah, it does not matter whether the car is technically drivable, it only matters how much it costs a shop to fix it. If the fix amount is greater than the value of the car after it is fixed, it is totaled. So, if the "frame" is bent, its a total - especially for an economy car.

fintail

Oh yeah, you worked in insurance, so you should know a lot . The insurance adjustor is supposed to check the car out today, so I am going to call her this evening and see if they gave her a total or any info. One saving grace for the car is that she lives in a smallish town, so labor rates are less insane than in the city. She's also provided with a rental for the duration of this, and I'll be curious as to what she gets...maybe another Corolla with the way they are being placed in fleets lately.

I don't think any of the injuries were severe, maybe just some whiplash claims. But nowadays I am sure those can add up too.

Thanks for the good wishes...I am sure everyone will be OK, just a little sore.

I'm just glad the car wasn't hit by some illegal or tweaker with no insurance. It's hard to be less considerate than that.

fintail

I have to wonder if driving it home made anything worse...or if the cops saw it was pretty bad anyway, so no use preserving it. It was driven about 40 miles I think from the site to my mom's house. My brother has worked on the suspension of his own cars, and he seems to think the Corolla is messed up...so we'll see. Modern cars are so delicate when it comes to that.

I figure the car has a retail value of maybe 12K, the damage sounds like a good 5K anyway...so it'll be close. At least everyone walked away pretty much.

snakeweasel

I wonder what it takes for the insurance company to total such a car.

Generally speaking it's based on what the car without the damage is worth verses how much it would cost to fix it. If your $6K car gets $7K worth of damage its technically totalled.

In short the insurance company will give you the lesser of the FMV of the car or what it costs to fix it.

jensad

There may be a box to check on the officer's report regarding the amount of damage and their opinion whether the damage is minor, moderate, major, or total.

Don't know its been years since I had to fill them out and the world has changed and I'm glad I took a different path and left the old job behind.

Good luck to all and stay safe.

jensad

fintail

I always assumed they'd total it at a certain amount, like 60-80%,

News on the car, as I talked to my brother - it was rear ended by an Expedition, not a Suburban, and it had a bull bar, which made the damage weird and messy. He said be believes the car is actually bent up a little at the rear, and the rear quarter panels are messed up. A body shop hauled it off today and my mom got a PT Cruiser rental, which she does not like. He said they took the car in to go over the suspension and internals, and will have a verdict in a couple days. He also says an agent from the other insurance company called him and pressured him to settle, which he rebuffed.

euphonium

"the other insurance company called him and pressured him to settle, which he rebuffed. "

As far as Geico is concerned they are handling several Bodily Injury Claims and one Property Damage file. Your Mother is concerned with one BI and one PD claim and they are two separate files and are to be negotiated separately. She doesn't have to settle the BI to be paid for a replacement vehicle.

Rental expense stops when they settle on the car, one way or the other. I would not be surprised to see them total it due to the initial (obvious) damage, the hidden damage, and Rental Cost.

If she had just purchased her car would it be fair to pay her what she paid for it including all taxes, licenses, and fees minus .05/mile since she has owned it?

IMO she is entitled to the Sales Tax because if it was repaired, they would pay it.

fintail

Ha, that reminds me, she did complain to me about losing that tax money if it is totaled. It's well over a grand, so not a pittance. I hope she can be reimbursed for that if the car is a loss. She probably has put under 1500 miles on the car.

I just hope it doesn't end up needing lawyers...that kind of things drives her nuts.

On the inconsiderate driver note, my brother is certain the driver of the SUV was on the phone or eating while driving, as he failed to stop on an open clear road on a beautiful clear day.

snakeweasel

Ha, that reminds me, she did complain to me about losing that tax money if it is totaled. It's well over a grand, so not a pittance. I hope she can be reimbursed for that if the car is a loss.

Unless she has one of those policies that will replace a totalled car the insurance company will be firm on giving her what the car is worth on the open market. So she would most likely not get reimbursed for any sales tax she paid on the vehicle. Best recourse would be to go after the other driver for any additional losses.

oregonboy

When my Nissan was totaled a few years back in Washington State, the insurance company, State Farm, paid the sales tax on the fair market value of my vehicle without being prompted. It was just standard operating procedure... no special policy.

oregonboy

A bit more on my totaled Nissan... it had not even occurred to me at the time that sales tax should be paid on the loss.

I bought the Nissan as an Oregon resident and paid no sales tax on the purchase, (gotta love Oregon). When it was wrecked, I was living in Washington and, of course, I had to pay sales tax on its replacement.

jimbres

On the inconsiderate driver note, my brother is certain the driver of the SUV was on the phone or eating while driving, as he failed to stop on an open clear road on a beautiful clear day.

Jeez, that's infuriating. Did the police cite the SUV's driver for any violations?

fintail

According to my brother, he did, yeah.

Another annoying bit that speaks to the way people drive in this region: My brother claims the emergency responders were on the scene within 2 or 3 minutes, and the vehicles were moved to the side of the road immediately. After that, the traffic backup that led to the crash vanished into thin air in what seemed like a few seconds, and there was no evidence there was ever a slowdown. I have to wonder if a couple of LLC mentality slowpokes caused a bottleneck.

fintail

If it has to do with replacement value, I'd imagine it isn't unreasonable to have something added for tax, especially on a car that was purchased so recently. I hope so anyway, as my mother will guilt my brother over any loss until he pays her out of whatever he is given as a settlement for his sore neck

euphonium

" my mother will guilt my brother over any loss until he pays her out of whatever he is given as a settlement for his sore neck "

OY VEY!

fintail

I'm not joking either

fintail

This morning around 0600, in the rain, I saw a few cars with no lights on. It is a little light at that time, but in the rain it isn't exactly bright out. Why do people do this?

oregonboy

That's a real pet peeve of mine. When I rule the world, headlights will come on automatically with the wipers. Actually, day-time running lights would also correct the problem, if and when they become universal.

euphonium

While wiring up the switch to activate the headlights when the wipers are on, wire up the lights to flash when the horn is sounded.

fintail

DRLs have existed in Canada for eons now, maybe close to 20 years. People here don't want to be "forced" into using lights, I guess.

My car would have a problem with the wiper/light connection...it has rain sensing wipers, which usually run too fast for me, so in the light misty rain we always have here, I flick the wiper off and on at my discretion. Of course, my lights are on anyway.

imidazol97

My cars have DRLs and wipers turn on the headlights on newer one with the automatic windshield wipers.

imidazol97

> which usually run too fast for me

What kind of sensing system is used for the wipers? Mine uses infrared reflected off the glass and water drops on the glass changes the refraction index from inside to outside allowing more of the infrared to escape. I clean the winshield really well above the area where the sensor is and it is not as sensitive to water. The oiliness and all from roadfilm seems to affect the reflection of infrared back to the sensor.

the_big_al

why people can't turn their lights on is beyond me... Auto headlights should be a default standard. It is so inexpensive of an item that even the bean counting bean counters at GM have had them on their cars for years. Actually, why not go the Subaru route and have the lights on at all time while the car is running? I think it looks silly to be going down the road in broad daylight with the taillamps on but if it helps to get them on the dusk/dawn periods of day when they are most needed then I'd be all for it. It makes you look even more dumb when you are running around at twilight or dark with no lights on.

xwesx

What I find funny is the argument that lights on during daylight hours and DRLs cause x number of additional gallons of fuel to be used each year in order to power them. The last I checked, automobile alternators generated electricity in excess of that required to run low-powered headlights even when idling, so how is it that the engine uses more fuel with the lights on?

All my cars have a DUL.

fintail

I think mine work similar. They do change the speed due to a detected increase in rainfall...but are almost always faster than I like. I am also a Rain-X addict, which probably explains it.

fintail

I drive with lights on pretty much every time I drive anywhere...in the modern car. But in the old beast, I don't - I figure the chrome, color, and odd shape of the car should be enough to catch attention. :shades:

ruking1

Law enforcement seems to be out in force around here today.

I was heading to a freeway on ramp, as a local motorcycle cop followed me for several blocks, stopping behind me. I signaled for the right hand turn onto the freeway on ramp and waited as some guided left turn traffic to the same on ramp had the right of way. Well, seems like someone blows a red on the guided left turn on green RIGHT in front of the motorcycle cop. The cop makes a (illegal) right hand turn in front of me (I had to steer around to avoid) to pull the red light runner over.

Now I am on the freeway, #3/4 lane (further down it winds up to be the slow or extreme right hand land.) This time another LEO (a CHP) follows at a distance for several miles. He catches up to me and almost RAMS me before he does a quick zip LEFT and acclerates to (near as I can tell) 95-100 miles per hour, aka no code. This guy literally disappears in seconds. Not too long later a Honda Insight with vanity plates zips by at what seems to be slightly less than what the CHP officer was going. About 2/3 miles further another Honda almost crashes into a car in front of me to get into the lane!!? Turns out another LEO (CHP) on a motorbike is pulling this vanity plate Honda Insight over to the far left. Then I get to another section that is the perptual speed trap and only 2 CHP up the mountain on ramp (normally a gaggle of 3/4) ....Then there were three CHP's and a fire truck....Oh well, slow news day.

vcheng

The power required to rotate the alternator is provided by the engine, and the power required to rotate it is proportional to the load put on the alternator. More lights, or any other type of electrical load (eg seat heaters, defroster etc) increases the parasitic load on the engine. Similarly, more starts require more effort by the alternator to recharge the battery.

The extra gasoline used is very small to be sure, but it exists, and that is the basis for all the calculations used that you refer to, since a small amount of extra gasoline used times a very large number of automobiles used is a fairly large number of barrels of oil used extra.

Obviously, ALL power used in an automobile is provided by the gasoline directly or indirectly, including the power windows, high power audio system etc etc.

oregonboy

Well said.
There's no free lunch. :shades:

xwesx

I understand your reasoning, but that is not true for all alternators (well, older ones like I mention below) and even variable-output alternators put out a minimal amount of power at all times. So yes, it does up the load, but that does not necessarily translate to added fuel consumption unless one of these factors is true: A larger alternator is mounted on the vehicle specifically to account for the draw of DRLs, or the added draw from such lights causes a bump in energy required to power the alternator.

For instance, my older vehicles (two '69s and a '76) have alternators that put out power in a linear fashion based on the speed of the engine. At idle, they put out less power than at 2,000 rpm. One can even see this to be the case when idling with all accessories on, including lights. The lights are relatively dim at idle, but punch the gas and the lights get brighter. In this case, the lights themselves have no effect on the fuel consumption from the engine because the parasitic loss from the alternator is constant.

There are many good reasons to not want DRLs, but the power-consumption argument is not one of them.

vcheng

I respect your opinion, but what you are ignoring is the EFFORT required to rotate the alternator, regardless of the speed, is dependent on the current draw demanded through it.

More electrical load on the alternator equals more effort by the engine to rotate it. Plain and Simple.

If the alternator can provide additional power without adding to the engine's load, then I am sure we could add coffee makers, a microwave and refrigerator and even a dryer and washing machine running through a large inverter to make coffee, cook dinner and do the laundry while driving to and from work without a fuel consumption penalty!

xwesx

On-ramps to freeways in the eastern states no longer have merge signs; they were replaced by yield signs. That seems rather awkward, considering the angles and speeds involved. Anyone know why that was done? Was it to cater to the freeway drivers' sense of entitlement?

xwesx

Hah, yeah, if the generation potential of the alternator were infinite! That sure would have been nice on my trip to Pennsylvania. I installed a small inverter to power miscellaneous small electronics for my five-year-old son. He loves playing with his electrical devices, but he was not very patient with having to turn some of them off when we stopped the van. At idle or with the engine off, it just could not handle the load he demanded of it!

vcheng

I noticed that too. but I think it may have been done to indicate who should adjust their merging. Merge may have meant "I am coming through and the guy on the highway better move over" while Yield may mean "the guy joining the highway should yield to the traffic already on it".

Of course, either sign is irrelevant when you have a sweet old lady stop at the end of the merge lane in an immaculate Buick waiting for a break in the traffic to merge! She takes off after about three minutes, and leaves behind a chaotic jam.

xwesx

I found the last portion of your post so funny that I failed to respond to your primary idea, "More electrical load on the alternator equals more effort by the engine to rotate it."

Based on my understanding of alternators, maximum output is based on these factors: 1. The speed of the engine. 2. The maximum rated output of the alternator. The power generated by the alternator will depend on the demand, but maximum supply is limited (regardless of demand) by the speed of the engine until such time as the maximum available output of the alternator is reached. At that point, any additional engine speed will make no difference on the output potential of the alternator. This speed is typically around 2,000 RPM.

As a result, the effort by the engine to rotate the alternator depends on the "size" of the unit, not the demand on it at any given time. So, if you have, say a 100 amp alternator and upgrade to a 160 amp, you will have more parasitic loss than with the 100 amp because it takes more effort to turn that larger unit. But, if you are driving down the road with a 100 amp alternator and turn on your windshield wipers and lights because it is raining, the parasitic loss from the alternator is the same both before and after you turned on those devices.

If this is inaccurate, then I agree that more effort to rotate the alternator will cause some (even if minute) power loss to the drivetrain. However, I am not aware of movable parts in the alternator that would create added resistance (thereby causing the engine to expend more energy to rotate it) on the drive belt.

Unbelievable! I just realized that I must have started writing this message hours ago! I started it just after I posted that initial response, but was writing it between "high priority" activities....

xwesx

That was my thought as well, but the two signs really do have fundamentally different meanings.

fintail

Drove down to podunk earlier today...lots of slowpokes and LLCs on I5 today, and more speed traps than I am used to as well, although they were only going after the excessive and inattentive. Too much stop and go knocked me down to under 24mpg in the E55....still not bad I guess,

And the Corolla is totaled - estimate is 13K. Geico is going to be calling someone a very inconsiderate driver.

venture

On-ramps to freeways in the eastern states no longer have merge signs; they were replaced by yield signs.

Pennsylvania has always used Yield signs at freeway entrance ramps - at least as far back as I can remember. Why? I suspect it is a liability solution. It seems PennDOT is more concerned with liability than they are repairing roads.

That's why they call it guiderail instead of guardrail, for instance.

snakeweasel

I remember some place (a Northern state I think) where I saw "No Left Turn" signs on freeway on ramps.

hammerhead

Podunk = Olympia? :P

I'm putting together my application packet for substitute school bus driver. A new window on the inconsiderate world is about to open.

Cheers!
Paul

fintail

Olympia is like London or Paris compared to where I am :shades:

I can't imagine driving a bus of any kind...unless I was the only vehicle on the road.

xwesx

Olympia is like London or Paris compared to where I am

Oh, the suspense is too much!!!

hammerhead

Drove motorhome for years, big trucks at work, so the only add-on is the kids

London? Paris? Wow, you are out where the buses don't run!

xwesx

The only add on? Haha. Good luck! :P

hammerhead

Yeah. I know.
It'll be fine.

Cheers!
Paul

fintail

There's actually a half-baked transit service here, county run I think....once an hour kind of thing.

I'm closer to euphonium's neck of the woods.

xwesx

Hmm.... let me guess.

Moses Lake? Pullman?

Oh, here's an obscure one, but I doubt they have any sort of transit.... Tonasket! I think that is how it's spelled - up by the Canadian border in central Washington.

fintail

I'm still on the west side...euphonium lives in the southwest part of the state, that's where I am. Although I do have family in podunk eastern WA, and spent a significant amount of my youth in a place you mentioned

People here drive insanely slow, too. Like 20 in a 30, all the time.

zaken1

Interesting that you consider 20 in a 30 zone to be "insanely slow." I moved from an urban area to a small town 18 months ago; and I now find it delightfully relaxing to not be hounded by impatient, hurried drivers all the time, like it previously was in the city. You know; we can adapt so completely to frantic lifestyles and polluted environments, that we eventually become so used to them that we forget how bad they are. Only when the doctor tells us that our blood pressure has gone out of control and we need to slow down or die; do we suddenly realize how much damage that "fast lane" lifestyle has been doing to our health.

fintail

It's a 30 that would be a 40 in areas where family trees fork and half the population aren't meth consuming tweakers. I think it's more of a factor of nowhere to go and all day to get there rather than these guys slowing down to just take it easy and enjoy life. They don't appear to be any happier than people in the city, especially here where unemployment is probably 25% or more. Life expectancies here are also less I have no doubt. Pollution and stress are bad, but I don't know if eliminating them is done via going 21mph and having nothing on one's schedule.