Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

backy

Well, first, he was "driving" while looking over his shoulder. Not very safe! Did you notice if he made any turns without signaling? Was he moving at a safe speed? Did he yield to other animal traffic in the area? Was he talking on a cell phone?

I'll bet he was one of those "new citizen" cougars, too--maybe migrated from another state, or even another country, so did not understand the laws of your state... or just didn't feel in the mood to follow them!

fintail

Hopefully he won't wander out onto a local roadway, where an oblivious pseudo-driver might run him down. Oversensitive middle America can probably avoid him anyway.

The only cougars in my neighborhood drive high end SUVs :shades:

fintail

Today I got behind an older guy in a late 90s Grand Cherokee. He was going slow, and then navigated a turn very oddly - kind of lurchy and unevenly. I passed him and saw why - he was messing around with a plastic container, the kind life savers or breath mints would be stored in. The best place to do this is while going around a corner, of course. Age isn't always an indicator of wisdom.

Other than that, saw nothing bad on local roads other than the usual slowpokes.

fintail

A couple fun ones today. First was guy in a Tundra, pulling out of Costco, holding one of the foil wrapped sandwich things. He was trying to eat and drive and mind the kids in the truck (of course), and doing a poor job at all three. Surely he's not such a busy pillar of the community that he can't pull over for 5 minutes and eat. Just as bad as phone yappers...

Second was a woman in an Acura, wouldn't pull up less than 2 car lengths behind the car in front of her at lights, and was going slow. At a light, I eventually needed room to get into the upcoming right turn lane, so I beeped the fintail's horn, which is loud - she jumped out of her seat. I scared her and good. She must have been in her own dumb little world.

Third, old woman in a CRV. Right lane closed for construction, so she was going slow - not a problem as the upcoming light will be red anyway thanks to the efforts of our "engineers" who are so accountable and skilled. But when the lane opens and the construction ends,she continues to go 20-25 - in a 35. I went around, don't know how far back she was when I exited the road.

And topped off with a very short woman I won't describe, in an S550, driving with the gas door open. I guess when someone else bought the car, it doesn't matter.

fintail

Saw something dopey today - young woman, RAV4, driving with her left hand in that weird underhand style at the top of the steering wheel. Right hand was holding a huge coffee cup - from the bottom. How could that seem like a good idea? Seems no better than someone holding a phone. I also don't get the underhand steering wheel gripping, which I see many times a day - but then again, I like to do things properly.

I've also recently come down with a motorcycle itch, I think next month I am going to take some classes as it has been too long since I have been on 2 wheels. I expect to see some real intelligence on the roads then.

roadburner

I've also recently come down with a motorcycle itch, I think next month I am going to take some classes as it has been too long since I have been on 2 wheels. I expect to see some real intelligence on the roads then.

When I ride, I assume that I am invisible- and if anyone CAN see me, they will try their best to kill me...

Kirstie_H

We have the same policy - we assume that if there is an idiotic move to be made, the other vehicle WILL make that move. Having said that, the weather has been so awful we haven't ridden at all this year... plus the fact that there seem to be an increasing number of idiots on the road has put us off lately.

fintail

I am already used to being treated like I am invisible when I am in a car...might be an easy transition. This area can train one in a little defensive driving. A coworker who is kind of egging me on to get a bike is kind of a die-hard yet looks for any excuse not to commute if he has to come in during peak hours.

Might be a good excuse to get that go pro camera I have been wanting, too. The dumb things I'll be able to put on youtube.

isellhondas

I got rid of my last motorcycle years ago. I got tired of being nervous all of the time and it got to the point it just wasn't fun anymore.

Plus, I knew it was a matter of time. Sooner or later, everybody crashes.

fintail

It's no fun to drive a car around here either - with bad traffic controls and a brain dead contingent on the road.

I'd end up being a Sunday/low hours driver, and keep off some of the negligently designed deathtrap roads (like any highway in Snohomish county). Just have an itch for a new toy I guess.

stever

brain dead contingent on the road

It's the smog. (WSJ)

"Recent studies show that breathing street-level fumes for just 30 minutes can intensify electrical activity in brain regions responsible for behavior, personality and decision-making."

elias

indeed the right lane should be avoided when the density of entering/exiting/traffic is too much!
around here there are miles inbetween exits, but nobody moves to the right as required. Especially Priuses - they really are the worst middle-lane-hoggers around here, always going WAY slower than the rest of traffic.
Priuses almost never hog the *left* lane however.

fintail

Today got behind an old guy in a G35 coupe. He'd keep a huge following distance by going 5 under, and would wander all over his lane, often crossing the white fog line. Why do some seem unable to keep it near the middle of the lane? The fog line thing is an epidemic around here, too. Visual or spatial awareness problems. Then he made an unsignalled turn, of course.

While on foot I saw a very old man with one of those 4-footed canes start crossing the road. It was obvious he was not going to make it by the time the light changed, so I went out to ask if he wanted assistance, and to keep any idiots from flying around the corner and hitting him. As I am out encouraging him to move along, woman pulls up in a Pilot and honks. Really? I was hoping the old guy would bash her grille in with the cane.

tjc78

Yesterday was just a day of crazies. Fiance drove us to work and we were cruising the NJTP left lane at 75 (65 posted). Nissan Maxima 2 inches from the back of her car, she moves over, he flies by then moves in front and slows to 65. :sick:

Guy flying up a narrow side street and she had to swerve (almost hitting the curb) to miss him.

Then SHE was inconsiderate and made a right hand turn into traffic a little too close for my comfort (naturally I didn't say one word) :shades:

mary05

I love going down to the Jersey shore, but man, those Jersey drivers are CA-RAAAAZZYY!! I was on 49 cruising along at 60- speed limit 55- natives just zooming past me leaving me in a cloud of dust! lol! .And they WILL sort of just cut you off suddenly or if they're supposed to yield, they'll just come off a ramp like the Bandit and expect YOU to yield to THEM! I have just learned to expect it when I go there. It's better than when I go to Maryland and DC though. I wonder how many diplomats and foreigners are driving around, unable to read the road signs and having totally different traffic rules in their own country.

mary05

...is when I am trying to turn out of my driveway (onto a busy street) or I see people trying to turn from a turning lane- and the other cars coming the opposite direction could be half a mile down the road- then I swear I hear engines gunning! What's wrong with people? If you see someone turning, regardless if you think they should be turning at that precise moment or not, slow down- at LEAST take your foot off the accelerator! I've seen so many close calls - what if the person turning has a standard and it stalls out? If you hit them, more than likely, it will be your fault because you saw them turning but didn't bother to have control over your own vehicle. Why take the chance anyway? I swear people just like to play chicken or are so selfish they have to be "Me first"- Can't be behind anyone on the freeway, either. Have to be ahead of everyone- so I must pass everyone who comes close! Sheesh...lol!

tjc78

If you hit them, more than likely, it will be your fault because you saw them turning but didn't bother to have control over your own vehicle.

If someone enters your travel lane and you hit them how is that your fault? Right of way laws should protect you there.

snakeweasel

As for the woman in the Rav4 if the air bag goes off when she is holding rge wheel like that she will be in a world of hurt. First it will break her wrist and then slam her hand into her face. I have many stories of many people losing teeth and/or breaking facial bones when the airbag deploys and they have the wheel gripped on the top.

hammerhead

2 inches from the back of my bumper will earn them a nice, gradual slowdown. And I'm no LLC by any means, but I'm not moving til they back off, because I don't want them misjudging the pass. NJT ain't NASCAR.

fintail

Would be a crying shame, it would.

Saw several "drivers" (term used very loosely) driving/turning like that today.

I wonder what the damage will be to those who sit too close to the wheel, as well.

tjc78

NJT ain't NASCAR.

It's pretty close. I live fairly south, but once you get up past exit 8A it gets to be a pretty quick pace.

I have routinely been passed like I was standing still at 85.

2 inches from the back of my bumper will earn them a nice, gradual slowdown

If I was driving that is what I would have done, but my Fiance doesn't like to do things like that. She just moves over and allows them to pass.

snakeweasel

Saw something almost like that on the way home tonight. Stopped next to a car with two 20ish looking girls in it. The passenger was sitting there with her feet up and firmly planted on the dashboard. I don't want to think of the results if that airbag ever goes off with her feet like that.

fintail

9 times out of 10 it is a young woman doing that. I would never allow it in my car. Indeed, it would be messy in a crash - not to mention that I simply don't want feet on the dash of my car.

I remember years ago my sister tried to pull that trick while I was driving. I hit the brakes, she yelled, I said "brakes felt a little soft, thought I would test them". She got the point, never did it again.

fintail

Didn't see anything bad today (because I didn't drive), but have been reading a book on motorcycling theory. The author goes on at some length about the poor lane discipline of American drivers compared to elsewhere in the first world (author is American, too). Found it amusing.

Yesterday I was out on a mountain bike for the first time in a long while. It wasn't relaxing whenever more than one car was around. People either don't see you, or freeze up and stop.

andres3

Oh I wish I had a nickle for every time some idiot made a right turn on red without coming to a complete stop that I had to slam on the brakes or swerve to avoid.

The problem there is the failure to yield, not the California Stop on Right Turns. The California stop isn't designed to let you cut off traffic, only to make a right turn when there is no other traffic in the way.

Speaking of which, there are some cars out there capable of making a 90 degree right turn at speeds faster than 5-10 mph, and safely.

fintail

In this area, it seems a significant number of cars can't take a gradual 90 degree turn at more than 5-10 mph - usually driven like the operator (can't call it a driver) thinks it will tip over.

roadburner

Are you reading Proficient Motorcycling?

fintail

Yep I have that and the second volume, and another book by the same author. He's very easy to read.

I haven't been on 2 wheels more than a mountain bike in many years. I am going to take some MSF classes in the upcoming weeks. I want to get into it even though part of me is telling me to keep away due to expense and risk. A co-worker is egging me on as he rides a lot.

xwesx

I want to get into it even though part of me is telling me to keep away due to expense and risk.

Eh, why not? You're a single guy in your 30's; if it is something you want to do, now is a good time to do it. It seems to me like you're approaching it in the right way, so that "part of you" should be satisfied. It's funny to think that twenty years ago, there likely wouldn't have been any peep from that part at all. :P

There's risk in everything that is worth doing.

fintail

That's kind of how I am looking at it. I'm not getting any younger. I think I am mature enough to not act like a squid...but at the same time, the bikes I like are both expensive and fast. I'm planning on taking a few classes before deciding if I want to finally join the hobby. If I do...in about 6 weeks, I'll have a post to make on the compulsive buyers thread.

20 years ago, I was still looking forward to getting my license. About the peep...I'll just say I'm not telling my mother or my siblings about this :shades:

xwesx

I'll just say I'm not telling my mother or my siblings about this

Hahahahaha; good call... better to wait until after the decision is made. Maybe show up to the family reunion on it or something.

I would really like to get one, but my other half has words about that. Maybe when I finish my house and have a garage in which to keep it. Then again, I don't think that a garage will change her mind about it.

fintail

I don't want to look foolish if I chicken out...and I don't want to hear the whining. Once the purchase is made, no looking back...I'll commit myself to it. I'll admit I am already browsing craigslist.

Speaking of bad drivers, yesterday's evening drive was the easiest I remember in weeks - nothing sticks out. Did get to yell at a few dawdling phone yappers while I was on foot, though. This morning was a breeze, too. Maybe the dopes are on vacation.

elias

coincidentally a passenger asked me for feet-on-dash permission yesterday and i permitted it... i'm aware of the airbag issues with that. no harm was done.

fintail

I also don't want dirty feet on my dashboard...to heck with the danger :shades:

A couple things stick in my memory today: Lexus with several "8"s in its personalized plate, 40mph divided 4 lane road, it was in the left lane going insanely slow, I think it actually might have stopped after awhile as it dropped way back fast. Second was a 90s Suburban towing an old trailer overloaded with gravel. Of course it was out crawling along in rush hour traffic. The ancient cracked bias ply tires on the trailer were downright scary.

victor23

Anybody could recommend what to do? I read somewhere that you can call a local non-emergency police line and report a suspected drunken driving. Where to get this number? Other suggestions?

A case in point:
This morning, a driver (some sexless ageless creature, maybe young boy, maybe middle-aged woman) entered the street from a gas station right in front of me, crossed lanes at 90 degrees, almost created an accident, ant then proceeded with more barbarities for which they used to suspend licenses in the past. I stopped behind it at a traffic light trying to write down/take a picture of his/her/its numberplates, and when the light turned green, the creature didn't move for a long time. All the while yapping on a cell phone.

The most frustrating is not the danger itself (so far, I managed to anticipate or handle all emergency situations), but rather our total helplessness to do anything about it. I almost jumped out of my skin trying to attract attention of that driver by very intense honking and all kinds of gestures, but the subject was totally oblivious to my very presence on the road, and I believe it didn't fake it.

In the past, we used to cut off in a lane, then hit the brakes and gas in the next instance. I haven't done it this time, though.

fintail

I'd think a simple 911 call would work there. Also can work for defiant LLCs.

fintail

Today I got behind an Aston Martin that was either having transmission problems, or suffering from a distracted/poor driver. Would lunge from 0-20mph and then run out of steam like a fintail accelerating in 4th gear at the same speed. Money and capability...

While on foot I also saw 2 cars pull right in front of others when entering a major street from a minor cross street or driveway. Corolla and Camry. Latter got a nice loud horn aimed at it.

andres3

the City of La Mesa wants $360 for that last speeding ticket? I suppose it has something to do with the ticket being for 52 in a 35 (nevermind the 85th percentile traffic survey shows 41 MPH thereby making this an illegal speed trap, and this was taken in ancient times in 2004, I'm sure the 85th percentile has gone up since then).

It also probably has something to do with the 1 point on my record for speeding from the CHP about 1.5 years ago that I didn't have time to fight so just plead guilty and did my traffic school online. They like to charge progressively more for subsequent tickets in CA.

Oh to top it off, the traffic engineering survey shows that this portion of roadway has approximately 1/10th as many accidents as would be expected on an average roadway given the length of roadway and vehicle miles travelled upon it.

So why is the La Mesa PD issuing so many speeding tickets on a portion of roadway that's TEN times safer than average? That's right, it's all about safety! :mad: :confuse: :sick:

backy

Oh to top it off, the traffic engineering survey shows that this portion of roadway has approximately 1/10th as many accidents as would be expected on an average roadway given the length of roadway and vehicle miles travelled upon it.

Maybe because drivers in the area know that the La Mesa PD patrols this road regularly thus (most) drivers keep their speed down?

fintail

I think the whole 85th percentile story might be just that - a story. It certainly seems to have no relation to limits or enforcement in my area. Follow the money. Tickets no doubt fund plush undeserved pensions and other perks.

andres3

Maybe because drivers in the area know that the La Mesa PD patrols this road regularly thus (most) drivers keep their speed down?

Yet, from a long 8 years ago, the 85th percentile speed was measured at 6 MPH over the underposted speed limit of 35 MPH. That means 15% of drivers are going faster than 41 MPH regularly.

And call me logical, but since were setting a speed limit (an upper limit) and not a speed average, I'd set the speed limit at 45 MPH given an 85th percentile reading of 41; why round down when setting an UPPER limit? Am I being too logical? I'd certainly never lower the speed limit below 40 given that measurement, unless I was corrupt.

backy

Am I being too logical?

No, not at all.

You noted the low accident rate on this stretch of road. Ever consider that the low speed limit, coupled with regular enforcement, has something to do with that?

isellhondas

Oh, poor Andres!

Still complaining about being a "victim"? It 's always unfair, isn't it?

I do have a suggestion...try NOT SPEEDING! What a concept!

andres3

You noted the low accident rate on this stretch of road. Ever consider that the low speed limit, coupled with regular enforcement, has something to do with that?

Since studies show that the 85th percentile is hardly changed at all (maybe 1 MPH for every 5 MPH change in the speed limit at most) by increases or decreases in the posted speed limit, I would say that the speed limit has nothing at all to do with the low accident rate. They are not even correlated.

Since the actual real life speeds people drive are much higher than the posted speed limit, and the accident rate is low, it makes sense that the speed limit should be increased so that we don't make "criminals" out of the average driver.

I definitely don't think regular enforcement reduces accident rates. In fact, I'd bet big money on heavy enforcment increasing accident rates substantially, as drivers will then have to pay extra attention and effort to spot cops instead of potential road hazards. And after all, we all know most all accidents are caused by inattention, and almost never by speed.

If low real world actual speeds actually reduced accidents, then all of the slower residential and underposted arterial roadways would have lower accident rates than say... freeways, with their high speed limits. Why isn't that the case?

andres3

I do have a suggestion...try NOT SPEEDING! What a concept!

That doesn't work. The first time I was pulled over for speeding in La Mesa by a La Mesa PD cop, I wasn't even speeding.

Falsely accused. False charges alleged. Found guilty by mail. Case dismissed at the real "in-person" trial (officer didn't show and this was at their "home" courthouse, in El Cajon).

At least this time I was within 5 MPH of the alleged speed by the officer. The problem is.... I still wasn't speeding because the sign is wrong, it doesn't follow the 85th percentile traffic engineering survey. Also, in CA, we have that safe, reasonable, and prudent speed standard. He's going to have to prove I was posing a hazard in some way to someone or something.

hammerhead

Raise the speed limit, and those same people that speed now will still speed, just faster than they do now. Human nature.

And while I will grant you that speed in & by itself is not the primary cause of some accidents, it is contributory - speeding can be part and parcel a result of inattention.

While speed may not cause them, it still has much to do with the severity of damages & injuries that occur when crashes do happen. You can't argue physics.

It almost seems as if you're out there baiting the cops with your driving behaviors, daring them to stop you so you can generate yet another little spat. You must have too much spare time to spend so much of it on this. My advice would be just slow down, enjoy the ride & use up some of that spare time.

andres3

Raise the speed limit, and those same people that speed now will still speed, just faster than they do now. Human nature.

That's simply not true. It's a common misconception, but it is exactly that, a myth. Countless studies have shown this to be false. Many speed limits have been raised and lowered over the years, yet the 85th percentile speed measurements almost always remain virtually the same with little impact or correlation to the speed limit.

People simply drive what they feel comfortable and safe driving, regardless of what the two numbers on an aluminum sign say.

Go to Arizona or Texas, then to CA.

I guarantee you'll fully 100% grasp this concept easily by observation. In CA, you'll see that a good percentage of drivers go 10-15 MPH faster over the speed limit on freeways posted at 65 MPH or 70MPH. In Arizona, you will not find nearly as many going 10 to 15 over the 75 MPH speed limit.
In Texas, I'm positive you won't find an equal percentage going 90-95 in zones with the new 80 MPH speed limit.

That human nature argument is false.

backy

In fact, I'd bet big money on heavy enforcment increasing accident rates substantially, as drivers will then have to pay extra attention and effort to spot cops instead of potential road hazards.

That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever seen.

But let's assume you are correct. If so, your assertion condemns you and your driving behavior. You frequently exceed posted limits by a considerable margin, correct? You are thus on the lookout for speed enforcement, correct? Thus you are driving in an unsafe manner and potentially causing more accidents because you are paying attention to spot cops vs. potential road hazards.

So why not slow down and focus more on looking out for those potential road hazards?

Also, your statement re slower speeds on non-freeways not causing reduced accident rates vs. freeways has flawed logic. Speeds are relative to the road, traffic, etc. So 35 mph on a given city street may be unsafe, while 75 mph on a freeway might be perfectly safe.

fintail

I do have to say I agree with that. Put a 100mph limit on highways, 60 on residential streets, etc, and I am certain all but a few will drive far slower. There seems to be a natural pace for a given road often times not connected to the limit. Regional issues usually come into play too - ie: CA, FL, etc have faster drivers than MN or WA.

Although many do pay attention to the sign and hold themselves to it no matter what. I see people tapping their brakes and slowing down on wide open roads as they approach the usually arbitrary limit. Speed kills, show me the money.

isellhondas

You won't convince Andres of anything. He is a speeder and when he gets caught, it's never his fault. Poor Andres!

I have to say, he does remind me of myself...when I was seventeen.