Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

backy

Or how long should a driver be expected to wait when sitting for several minutes with no cross traffic?

If the light is operating as it's designed to, then... you wait until it changes. That's the law, anyway... inconvenient as it might be. Sometimes courteous driving isn't the most convenient driving.

You can always work to change the law, and/or the light setups in your fair city.

ronsteve

But the key question is: was the light defective, e.g. the driver sat through a couple light sequences and it never changed, or was the driver simply impatient?

The answer can be inferred from how long the light was red. With most red-light cameras, that information comes with the photo. That would yield some false negatives (light was red for 5 min due to no traffic; impatient driver rolls up and drives it like a stop sign), but better a false negative in this situation than a false positive, right?

ronsteve

Or how long should a driver be expected to wait when sitting for several minutes with no cross traffic?

If the light is operating as it's designed to, then... you wait until it changes. That's the law, anyway... inconvenient as it might be. Sometimes courteous driving isn't the most convenient driving.

The "dead red" laws seem to read "a reasonable length of time." Somewhere I thought I heard 2 or 3 minutes as the implied answer, but I know a lot of lights in the Midwest are that long or longer.

If someone is fighting a red-light ticket on the basis of a "dead red" then the jurisdiction ought to have no problem providing information that the light was operating as designed... i.e. a 30s green every 2 minutes and the camera shows the light was only red for 60s.

fintail

Lame answer, indicative of why we are in a state of devolution. "It's the law", while those with their fingers on the button operate in a realm of no accountability, and it took a generation to simply reform highway speed limits.

I guess I will keep breaking the law, then. No cameras, no cops, no cross traffic, no danger, no reason to sit there wasting gas and time.

backy

Maybe you should talk with your city manager about the kind of stoplights that have flashing yellow left turn arrows. Some of those are being installed in my town now. Very nice in that they allow left turns over a much longer timespan than the standard red arrows. I read that over time, the entire city will go that way.

xwesx

Fairbanks installed several of those this summer. I find them annoying (as compared to the "yield on green" option with a dedicated arrow at the start of the cycle), but a much, much better option than dedicated arrows with a solid red cycle that doesn't give drivers the option of making a left turn when there is no opposing traffic in the oncoming lane(s).

It's really just a yield on green that is more in-your-face about it, to cater to the distracted driving crowd.

xwesx

no cross traffic, no danger, no reason to sit there wasting gas and time.

I agree with you there. I give the lights twenty seconds to change (from the time I stop) during the abandoned times of the day. Most of the time they do, but other times I don't stick around to find out if they ever bothered changing or not.

Even then, those twenty seconds seem overly generous.

fintail

Funny you mention that - we got those at many intersections last year. They work fairly well, save for an intersection where the oncoming lane gets red 2 seconds after a car takes its blinking yellow turn. Sensor issue, shouldn't take more than a few years to fix.

Driver education might be the key - some will still just sit there at a blinking yellow with nothing coming.

fintail

That's about my rule of thumb too. Maybe 30 seconds. I usually go to work around 0530, sometimes earlier depending on the crisis. I am usually just about the only car on the road. I can pull up to an intersection, see there are no cars coming in the entire line of sight, and safely proceed no matter the light color. Haven't done it a lot lately though, the worst offender has finally been fixed.

When I jog, I cross against red a lot too - because there are no cars. At many intersections here, it seems pressing the walk button doesn't speed up the signal change, just gives you a green signal when the light eventually changes.

euphonium

Those who decry LLC, advocate running Red lights. :P

xwesx

I haven't seen anyone advocate running red lights here. To which post are you referring?

fintail

I can honestly say I've never *ran* a red light in my life.

backy

Driving down the freeway today in the right lane. Car was entering the freeway a little ahead of me. They could do one of two things: enter the freeway, or keep going in the merge lane and take the next exit (which I often see cars do... get on the freeway for half a mile :surprise: ). Problem is, I had no idea which path this car was going to take because they didn't signal their intentions, just kept going down the merge lane although I was giving them plenty of room to enter the freeway if that's what they were going to do. Finally, they started sliding ever-so-slowly onto the freeway. Can't recall the last time I saw a slower lane change. Still no signal. Then once on the freeway, they proceeded at 10 under the limit. Not a biggie for me, I was going to exit soon anyway. But a lane change signal would have been real nice.

BTW, this was a patrol car for the local police department. :P

xwesx

Hey, they can only juggle so much. Between the computer and the phone, what did you expect? It's extremely difficult to signal a left lane change with one's knee.... :P

backy

Don't forget the donut in one hand.

xwesx

D'oh! I knew I was leaving something off; I made it sound way too simple.

euphonium

I think the cop has two knees.

andres3

Yet in court they will testify under oath they can accurately use their 2-way radio, estimate your speed in a second, use their radar in a second, note your car's make, model, color, and verify your speed down to 1 MPH, all the while driving their car and chasing you down at the same time.

It's a great defense to point this all out, unfortunately you need a Johnny Cochran to get it through a judges skull.

andres3

Never heard of the "dead" red law? Is this real or imagined?

Vehicle code section?

fintail

Just don't be in LA in a blue Tacoma when they are searching for a grey Titan :sick:

ronsteve

Never heard of the "dead" red law? Is this real or imagined?

Vehicle code section?

Different states have different versions of these laws, some more specific to motorcycles and bicycles than others. Quite a few states have no such laws on the books, leaving the only possible defense as common sense.

stever

The bicycle "okay to run red light" law we had in Idaho didn't refer to non-working red lights. You just had to stop at the red and then you could proceed if traffic was clear. It didn't apply to motorcycles like the one in Kansas does.

If you're driving and the light doesn't appear to work (hung on red), I guess I'd try to convince the judge that the light was broken so I treated it like a flashing red or four way stop.

xwesx

leaving the only possible defense as common sense.

Oh, man... we're in a mess of trouble now! :P

andres3

I'd suggest putting a bullet through the red light because the fine for vandalism is probably a lot cheaper than the red-light running fine, and a blown out (incapable) red light makes the signal invisible, which is a perfectly legitimate reason for not stopping for the red light (which no longer exists). :P

If you can't see it, it doesn't exist. So take a picture of the non-existent red light after it is blown out to prove it wasn't visible from your standpoint.

fintail

The paranoid money-sucking Praetorian class would consider that an act of terrorism - beware.

The horn on the new car works - tried it for the first time today, on a braindead woman in a Volvo wagon who randomly hit the brakes and turned on a fast thoroughfare, no signal. Lots of no signalers out there today, along with a couple of sketchy U-turners and multi lane cutters (BMW X5 was made for this). Many phone holders, of course. I wish I lived in a first world area.

backy

More like vandalism vs. terrorism.

Saw a great example of inconsiderate driving today. Car was making a U-turn from the left turn lane, on green arrow, no signs prohibiting it, nobody in the way, i.e. all safe and legal. Except the driver of the SUV behind him apparently was in a big hurry or maybe had too much caffeine, and laid on the horn. Not once, nor twice, nor three times. At least 4 honks, maybe five. All while riding the bumper of the compact car making the U-turn.

Today had a bumper crop of inconsiderate / idiotic drivers, for some reason. It was a beautiful day weather-wise, sunny, warm (for MN in late February). Maybe it was the thought of, "Aha, dry pavement at last! Now I can dart in and out of rush hour traffic, just barely missing the bumpers of other cars, etc. etc., just to get 5 seconds ahead!" I love it when I pull up behind those folks at a stoplight a little ways ahead. Or better yet, come up behind them but never stop at all because by the time I get there, anticipating the stop, the light has changed. It's the most fun when I can change to an open lane and glide on by the driver who was in such a hurry to stop at that stop light.

fintail

You never know what charges could come up with how some need to defend their funding and ego.

U-turners - can be a problem here. Some of the problems are the newbies who will throw one anywhere at any time, no matter the oncoming traffic or narrowness of the road, then making a 14 point turn or hard curb scrape in their Corolla. Worst are the legal u-turn areas, and how free right turn takers don't yield to the turners. They don't seem to grasp that the u-turner both has a green light and is turning in a designated area.

New car has a 7-speed transmission which engine brakes - I've found pleasure in rolling up to lights or slow traffic patches without using brakes. Might be considered a mellow driving habit.

xrunner2

The paranoid money-sucking Praetorian class would consider that an act of terrorism - beware.

Had to look that up. Praetorian was guards used by Roman emperors. Some bit of obscure knowledge only relevant on Jeopardy. What would the category name and dollar amount be if on the tv show?

I'll take what? for x amount of dollars. Name the category.

elias

I'll take "Jackbooted Thugs" for $200, Alex.

In other news, maybe there are fewer inconsiderate drivers in the winter.

With 7 ft snow piles blocking sight-lines and plenty of traction issues, people somehow become more considerate drivers.

stever

Heh, the ones here are only ~4' high and are shrinking fast now. You do have to creep out into some intersections to see anything.

xwesx

Might be considered a mellow driving habit.

Uh-oh; you better be careful about that. :P

fintail

I'd say it's a $1200 "wasted tax dollars" category question. It's a term for our endlessly expensive defense/law enforcement/incarceration etc cabal Such as detailed in this article

No doubt some inconsiderate drivers are members, too :shades:

fintail

I'm pretty mellow, so long as nobody sets me off

xwesx

Hahahaha; that's what my pal Nitro said to his old buddy Glycerine, too!

fintail

Waiting in a left turn lane today, a few cars in it - annoying (the city needs a light there), but seldom more than a couple minutes' wait. Scion xB passes on the right, turns left in front of the car waiting, and forces its way into the flow of cross traffic. That should earn capital punishment.

Horribly timed lights today gave me an average speed of 11mph, and the weird lack of coordination seemed to make the local idiots drive even slower. Light turns green, don't worry, just sit there with your finger up your nose. Even saw weird lights while jogging, the sequencing was way off. I guess when you can't get fired, anything goes.

While on foot, got crosswalk crowded 3 times - Infiniti FX (expected that), Chrysler 300 (no surprise), Escort ZX2 (took courage).

ken117

Love it when, on an isolated rural road early in the morning, an impatient driver passes me in a no passing zone and proceeds well above speed limit. Rather have them in front of me to clear out the frequent deer in the road. Most enjoyable when they actually hit one. I do feel badly for the deer, not so much for the idiot behind the wheel.

It is also satisfying when a few miles down the road I pull up next to them at the seemingly always red stop light.

xwesx

the seemingly always red stop light.

Ah, the Great Equalizer; I always have to love that.

xwesx

Sounds like it was a pretty slow day, all in all!

I'm not sure this was inconsiderate, just timid.

There was a Honda CR-V that pulled onto the road behind me from a driveway on my local feeder road. We get to the highway, and both wait a minute for a not-so-well-prepared dad to load his K/1 child onto the school bus (whose red lights were holding about twelve-to-fifteen cars up). Eventually the dad got his act together, the bus shuts off the lights, and we sit and wait a while for the traffic to clear on the highway. Then, we both enter the highway, wherein the CR-V passes me as we accelerate to highway speeds, and proceeds about 1 mph faster than me.

Now, this road goes about four miles, then ends at the intersection with a semi-lower-48-style freeway. The SL goes from 55 down to 40 shortly before that intersection.

So, we're both tooling along, me at probably 58 and she at 59. We get to a large hill, where I continue at 58 (cruise was on) and she drifts down to probably 56. I switched to the left lane due to decreasing following distance, and continue on (never passing her, just approaching her closer than I would have wanted to do were I in the same lane). As we crest the hill, she pulls away and continues at 59. Given that we have to be in the left lane to make the left ahead, and there's no traffic behind us, I just stayed in the left lane. Then, with her probably 3+ seconds in front of me, she signals to change into the left lane. No problem.... I'm 3 seconds behind!

But, she doesn't move. Then, she turns off the signal. Then turns it back on. Then off, then on. By now, we're pretty much at the 40 zone, where I have canceled the cruise and am drifting down toward the new (upcoming) limit. Once again, she does this off/on routine (keep in mind, I haven't gone any closer to her in this time!), so I finally double-flashed her to let her know that yes, indeed, it was perfectly okay for her to come over!

She does, then takes the turn onto the expressway at about 20 mph (I usually take it closer to 40) before finally speeding up to 59 again and away we go. She ended up leading me most of the way to my destination, but happily she didn't exhibit such timid behavior again with other drivers as she maneuvered the various road changes.

fintail

Being timid is a big contributor to traffic problems. I often wonder how any of these souls pass their driving tests, assuming they had to mingle with other traffic to get a license. Slow turns and painful merges are probable indicators of not being mentally prepared, along with going way under the limit.

And 58 in a 55? I can't even imagine. Need to get out of this rat race/crawl.

xwesx

And 58 in a 55? I can't even imagine.

Hahaha! Yeah, and that's with ice on the road! I generally don't up my speed in the dry months, but nearly everyone else does. I'd say I'm one of the slower cars on the road during the warmer six, and one of the fastest in the colder six.

roadburner

So I'm driving down I-64 on my way to a job assignment and I notice a gray Crown Vic ahead of me. It sports three antennas on the deck lid, LED flashers on the parcel shelf, and a prisoner cage behind the front bench seat.Needless to say, I hang about 200' back and mirror his speed. We both take the ramp to I-75; the driver is very timid and slows to below the advisory speed. Once on I-75 I continue to hang back in the left lane while the unmarked cruises in the center lane doing @75 mph. All of a sudden an RDX comes up in the far left lane doing better than 80. He slows for a couple of seconds behind the unmarked and then passes it. Needeless to saym the unmarked lights up and pulls the RDY over. What an imbecile...

ruking1

I just had the OTHER side of THAT BUG & WINDSHIELD experience. And There I was in a CA commute lane ( : define in one way by 2 or more in a CAR, diesel car, but I digress) with 3 people in the car... COMMUTING in heavy traffic @ 75-80 mph. I see a CHP getting onto the flow of 5/6 lane traffic from either a merge or an on ramp. I am adjusting speed accordingly. He has his choice of ANY other lane or even combinations of them. As I am slowing to 64 mph he literally CLIMBS right on my six, app 2 ft off the rear bumper. So of course, I am waiting for the codes to go on, or the possibility of getting RAMMED. So one intepretation is get going FASTER buddy (yeah right), or get out of the commute lane. So natch I slow down even slower. He sees a 1 car length "hole" and hits the accelerator and damn near clips my car getting in front of me. AGAIN no codes on, who even needs normal signals here? !! I hit the brakes to allow even more than one car distance, and he literally instantly disappears after zigging and zagging into forward traffic, again no codes, no normal signals.

fintail

When you can't get fired, you can drive as you please.

It's funny seeing cops driving on any highway or even any road in WA - 95% of the locals are too timid to get close, and they will refuse to pass, no matter how slow the LEO is going. He's not going to get you for going 58 in a 60, just because he is going 53.

stever

Just post 'em on YouTube.

You did get a dash cam with the new ride, right?

fintail

I've debated what to do about that. I don't want to hardwire something to a new car, I don't want to crack open an airbag laden A-pillar, and I don't want cords dangling from my dash. Apparently no HD cams (that I can find anyway) have any battery internal life. I might just mount a gopro or even my DSLR to a headrest, or maybe somehow affix my phone to the windshield under the mirror.

stever

Get a roof cam. :-)

stickguy

Gotta love California. It really represents the country.

The Google patrol has a Lexus, and it is parked next to a Tesla.

slorenzen

If I owned one of these, I'd WANT this feature...

:shades:

http://www.theonion.com/video/new-prius-helps-environment-by-killing-its-owner,2- 8675/

xwesx

So, I need to mark on my calendar to NEVER travel to Palmer on the weekend of the Iditarod start. What a fuster cluck that was! The ten mile stretch from Willow to Big Lake, which is a SL-55 stretch and normally takes ten-to-fifteen minutes, took a solid 45 minutes. 45! After trickling through the final stop light on the Parks Highway until Fairbanks, traffic picked right up to 60 even though there was a line miles long of cars. But, a mile or two short of Willow, we were back to the grindfest. It took another fifteen minutes to slowly trickle through that little town.

On the far end, though, mine was the only car left on the road! Literally every single car that was in front of me was headed there. :sick:

The good news is that the roads were mostly dry (an oddity for this time of year), the weather was near-perfect, and so not only did I have the cruise set at 70 for the whole of the return trip, but I only passed three cars over the 250-mile stretch. It was almost like summer driving, as others were either driving my speed or faster, so I was passed at least a dozen times.

Funny thing was headed through the gorge between the Denali Tinseltown (ghost town in the winter) and Healy. The stretch through there is flagged SL-55 because summer traffic (including pedestrians, sight seers, etc) is very high, but it is abandoned in the winter. I wanted to enjoy the curves, so I took it at 70. After finishing out the curves, there is a stretch about three miles long headed into Healy. The Troopers love to patrol this stretch of road, so I dropped my speed back down to 63. A pickup flies by me, going probably 70-75, and keeps truckin'. Yep, you guessed it! He was tagged just before the drop into Healy. Tsk tsk.

andres3

The Troopers love to patrol this stretch of road, so I dropped my speed back down to 63. A pickup flies by me, going probably 70-75, and keeps truckin'. Yep, you guessed it! He was tagged just before the drop into Healy. Tsk tsk.

I've decided long ago that paying money to the radar detector manufacturer's beats by a long shot paying money to idiotic Troopers, courts, and municipalities. Better yet, with a smart phone and the smart cord you can have real time communication with all the other fellow radar detector owners around town.