You can always tell which posters in here use cell phones while they drive. They try to diminish just how dangerous cell phones are by equating them to other distractions that take place in the vehicle. There are 2 major differences between cell phones and other distractions. I can count on one hand the number of times in the last week I've seen someone reading while they were driving, or messing with their stereo, or doing their makeup, or attending to children. On the other hand, I couldn't count on all my fingers and toes how many people I saw talking on cell phones just on my way home from work today. The fact is, distractions caused by cell phones occure much more often than distractions caused by all the other reasons combined. The worst thing of all is that distrations caused by cell phone use are completely unnecessary. As I've said before, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever anyone needs to be talking on a cell phone while they're driving. None. Notta.
Here in the Dayton area there are two types of cell phone users. The professional taking a call or making a call and doing business on the phone. They generally move to the right lane and slow down to 50 or 55 on the 3 lane interstate. The other is the social talker who is yaking away, gossiping, planning, passing the time by talking on their free unlimited minutes, and is really mentally engrossed in handling the social and emotional factors of the conversation. The often have lots of head movement indicating emotional involvment with their conversation. I've even seen many with hand gestures as they talk. All the while tailgating you, because if they stay within 20 feet, their peripheral vision keeps them going at the right speed. Otherwise they might slow down by forgetting to push on the acceleration due to involvement in their conversation. No. I don't have a cell phone any more. Yes. When I had a Nextel as a part of my job, I slowed down when a call came in and looked for a driveway to stop shortly.
I've noticed more people wearing the headsets. They seem to think it keeps them from being so distracted, but they still are just as involved in the conversation.
The fact they're not holding a phone with one hand doesn't improve their driving.
I did misspeak in my earlier comment. We do have a cell phone. We have ONStar cell phone service. But it's rarely used. It's hands free and I find it distracting when I get a call or make one.
If anyone thinks it's not a serious subject about cell phone use being dangerous, a lady and one or two children were killed when she was calling ahead to home returning from Indianapolis. She changed lanes at a traffic slowdown in construction at 70 and 75 interchange and hit a slow-moving or stopped semi. Deadly. As I recall she was on the phone at the time. Sad.
I've seen people pull off stupid maneuvers on the road and it was almost like they thought having the cell phone gave them license to do it.
A common one (at least once a week I see this) at a major intersection near my work I'll see people waiting to make a left turn. They'll stop because they didn't get up to the intersection in time for the arrow. Then as soon as cars begin to cross the intersection they'll floor it through to make their left turn. EVERY SINGLE TIME THESE PEOPLE ARE ON CELL PHONES! I mean they don't make you stupid do they?
What other stupid things have people done while on Cell phones . . . Oh! Years ago someone in a Tercel blew a stop sign and T-Boned my sister in law's Mazda 929. He hit that car HARD because the entire passenger side was caved in. His excuse was he was dialing his cell phone. "It wasn't my fault" Yes that is what he told the police.
What annoys me though is people that will stop their vehicle to use the cell phone. What I mean is they'll stop in a parking lot. They won't find a parking space, instead they'll just stop where ever they feel like stopping. Or they'll pull into the center lane of a road and stop to use their phone when there's a parking lot a left turn away. Usually when I've seen people do this they've been impeding on people who would want to use that lane to make a left turn or avoid someone on a cell phone who starts swerving into their lane. ;-)
Oh and yeah I rarely use my cell phone in the car too. I find it distracting only if I'm really lost and I just simply cannot find a place to park.
I think the person on the other end usually gets annoyed with me anyway. I'll start not paying attention to the conversation at all because I'm trying to drive. ;-) This is a good thing because I save a ton of money on cell phone minutes.
I have a friend who insists on talking on his cell phone all the time. One time he was driving and I ended up grabbing the steering wheel from the passenger seat because he was driving, talking on the phone and fiddling with the radio and didn't notice someone who parked close to the center of the road and flung their door open in front of him.
Needless to say I try to drive now when I hang out with that person.
I have a similar issue with a friend. She takes care of all her calls when she's on the road. She has had any close encounters, but it's annoying how EVERY car just flies by. And what's worse, she drive's stick. So there's times she'll tell me "SHIFT" and I gotta row the gears for her because she doesn't have enough hands.
There have been times I've been inclined to drive her car, and let her be the passenger, but I refuse to do stick specially on her unreliable Passat which things FALL from it at any given time. DO NOT wish to be responsible for the next 1XXX part that breaks down. SO I'm left as a backseat driver just critisizing.
To my mind, cell phone use during driving is just another way to "drive" distracted. It is and has been clearly "against" the law to drive distracted. It is probably as obvious that this is/has been virtually unenforceable. It probably will NEVER take enforcement priority!!??
The upshot is I would be on the side of ticketing for "ANY" distractive behavior. I have read that the number one "distractive" cause of accidents and fatalities happens to be eating food!!?? Seems that consumption of "FAST" food while driving is not only "deadly" to the consumptive distractive driver!!!
I find that eating as some do in the car is much less a distraction than talking on the cellphone. ON the cellphone there's the problem of 1. Holding the phone 2. listening and interpreting the other persons words 3. Synthesizing your response, including emotional response 4. Watch and drive carefully
For the food 1. Hold the food 2. Chew, a habit or skill requiring no thinking.
I read that in passing on several internet articles, so I don't have a web site to cite you.
I also read that (cell phone) fatalities were 1,200 per year of (app) 43,000 for the 2003 year . Since NHTSA does not break it down this far, any legislation that cites just cell phones and not the whole gambit of "distractions" is counter productive on many levels.
Put yourself in the "victims place." If you were the victim, is it or will it be any consolation to you that you were killed by a cell phone user or a big mac eater? Or a driving a parent that was trying to discipline a child in the back seat?
I've rarely had anyone try to force me off the road, but frequently have cars pull in front me or edge slowly into my path at intersections where I clearly have the right of way in an effort to intimidate me. I just pedal right at them and it has worked every time.
I am on everything from quiet side streets to main commuter arteries to busy downtown (Boston) city streets and long bridges during the 10 mile commute. The worst stretch is a quarter mile or so segment in my little suburb. I ride the sidewalk on that part after having tried to ride on the road. I was loudly cursed, beeped at and nearly flattened several times and, to my regret, retreated to the sidewalk.
I think cell phone conversations are more distracting because of how we relate to phones. Most people take phone calls more seriously than face to face conversations. They will take a call even when they're already talking to someone else. "I need to take this call" etc etc.
So when you're driving around in a car with someone you can always put the conversation on hold to focus on traffic because you aren't going to lose them. I know my wife gets frustrated when she is trying to have a conversation with me when I am driving. I'll stop in mid sentence when the constantly changing traffic situation commands my attention. I'll forget that I was even saying anything and after a bit I'll hear "well?"
I have some questions for you and some of these may be a bit off topic, but you're the only other person I've run into in this forum who lives in the Dayton area. Since I've only lived here since June of this year, it would be good to get another local resident's point of view.
I've noticed the drivers here are for the most part very bad. Most of them don't use their turn signals and they all speed and tailgate. I think a big part of the problem is that there doesn't seem to be any patrols that monitor traffic at all. I see very few patrol cars on the road and ususally when I do see one, they seem to be on their way somewhere. I've never seen one monitoring traffic. People probably drive the way they do because there's absolutely no threat of them having to suffer any consequences for their poor driving habits. Maybe there should be more (or some) patrols for monitoring traffic? Not only would this make our roads safer, it would generate more revenue for local government. What's your take on this?
Also, I've never seen a place where the price of gas fluxuates so often, or so drastically. For example, just Tuesday of this week at the Speedway on the corner of Old Troy Pike and I-70, the price for reg unleaded was $1.70. Yesterday the price jumped to $1.97 (that's a $.27 jump in one day). Today it went back down to $1.87. The price has been doing this since I got here in June. I realize the market is very unstable and the price of crude oil changes on a daily basis, but I've never seen prices that were as all over the place as they are here. I've brought this up in the "Report your local gas prices here" topic, but no one else seems to be able to explain this. Do you know what's up with this?
The drivers here are more aggressive with poor driving than surrounding areas. Low policing by the center city is a problem. They see themselves as policing only to benefit residents not benefit the earnings tax-payers who drive in and out and through their city.
Another factor is that unmarked police cars are not used for traffic control by state law. Indiana makes a killing with their undercover cars catching aggressive and fast driving.
I used to be able to tell a car from this area of Ohio traveling in the left lane on I-75 coming north through Kentucky. They're the ones who get right up on your bumper and started flashing their headlights a couple hundred feet behind so you would know to get out of their way. And I'm only going 75 in a 65 zone!!! They often were cars from Butler, Montgomery, and Miami Counties used to driving like that on I-75 in our area.
The only other pattern cars doing that I found were Ontario drivers returning from Florida who had been on the road a long time.
In Portland, on I-5, it is 3 lanes wide going into the city. There is a bridge, where it shrinks down to 2 lanes. There is a sign, saying "right lane ends in 1 mile". In the morning, you know all the drivers on the freeway are commuters. Many of them know the lane ends ahead, so they change lanes back on the interstate bridge, which is probably a good 4 miles before the merge. Now traffic is almost always backed up in the morning. Where are we supposed to merge? I personally go all the way to end, or pretty close to it and merge. Am I supposed to merge in earlier? How much earlier? Try coming to portland. It's not uncommon to see the left two lanes bumper to bumper, and the right lane EMPTY for 3+ miles. Am I supposed to take this 3 lane freeway and turn it into a 2 lane freeway? I'd also think twice about straddling the line. One time there was VW new beetle in front of me. It honked at a guy straddling the line. After a few honks, on came red and blue flashers. It was an undercover.
Personally I think if people actually used all 3 lanes, instead of only 2, and actually do the zipper properly, there would be LESS traffic. I see it all the time. At the choke point, I see cars zoom up to block the other guy, even though the umpteen number of cars in front of them were zippering just fine. The blocker than causes the other car to slam on the brakes, which causes other people to slam on brakes, etc etc. If they would've just let the guy zipper in, nobody would've had to slow down. The only time I've seen zippering fail, and people actually stop, instead of staying at a constant speed, was always when someone didn't know what a zipper merge was. You say it may save only 6 seconds or so, I say, come to portland. I did it before with a friend, that is against zippering. They got in line in the left about 4 miles before the merge, I went on my normal way. I told him to call me, when he got to the freeway interchange. Turns out he was about 20 minutes behind me, even though we got on the freeway at the same time.
Now on to my second question. When using a cell phone with a hands free system, how is this any different or more dangerous than talking to a passenger in your car? I would almost argue it is safer than talking to your passenger. At least when on the phone, you are still looking where you are going. I don't know how many times I've been a passenger, and the driver kept looking at me while talking to me. Even when I'm in the back seat
I don't think cell phones make driving any more dangerous. It's the person using it. When I'm on the phone, I always tell the person on the phone to ,"Hang on", while I merge, or do something that requires my attention. The people that don't do that, are the same ones I see digging for something in their purse while driving, shaving, reading a book, etc.
As for saying that you are more involved with a cell phone conversation, again... Depends on the scenario. When I'm physically talking to someone, and my cell phone rings, I usually don't answer it, unless caller ID says it's someone important. But how is that different, then when a coworker is in my cube talking to me, and the VP walks by and wants to talk to me? You pick and choose your conversations, regardless of the medium.
With a lane drop, on a daily commute, almost all of the traffic is aware of the drop, and can plan for it. (Ever see an obvious tourist caught in rush hour traffic? Can be entertaining...) I agree that the entire roadway should be used, including the lane that is closing. The zippering is best done at the throat.
There are a couple lane drops on my commute, and my approach is to try to use the lane that moves through best. In my experience, the lane that is closing is the fastest way through, and the lane on the opposite side is next. The slowest lane is the one next to the closed one, since it ultimately has to carry traffic from both. If traffic is moving freely I usually go to the opposite side and ride it out there. If traffic is braking to S&G I will go down the closing lane and move over into a convenient opening near the end. I hate sitting at the end begging...
Cell phones are a problem, but not much bigger problem than other distractions. I say scrap the laws against them and outlaw driving while distracted.
But, that said I do think a phone conversation is much more distracting than talking with a passenger. The main reason IMO is that silence is intolerable on a phone. You can see a passenger, and they can see what's going on and shut up when appropriate. Also, and not a point to be underestimated, the driver is "performing" for a passenger, and will usually try to drive better when they are on stage. The person on the other end of a phone can't see just how badly you're driving...
A phone conversation makes too many addressable gray cells unavailable for the driving thing. First your mind maintains a mental connection to the other person, complete with an image. Then you have to track and understand and store what was said, and formulate a response without interrupting the flow of the conversation. True, if necessary you can say "Hold on a minute", or simply drop the phone, but that is in emergency situations. People tend to be reluctant to do that. But meanwhile their speed drops, their attention wanes, they stop using turn signals or looking behind properly when changing lanes etc. Some of the stoopidest moves I've ever seen were made while talking on a phone.
I know, I know (ducking flames) some people are still wonderful drivers while talking on a phone. I've watched enough other people make bone-headed moves that I started watching my own driving while on the phone. Know what? My driving was not as good. Not bad, but there is little room for decreasing driving skills in my life, so I stopped using it while driving.
Whether laws are passed to ban cell phone use or distracted driving is really a moot point if neither is enforced. Speeding is banned but everyone does it because speed limits aren't enforced.
where the zippering is done in a lane closure. Once it's all said and done, only X amount of cars can actually go through that lane in a given period of time, no matter where the zippering starts. Whether the zipper starts at the throat of the closure, or a mile down the road makes not one bit of difference. The key is that everybody has to do it at the same point, and everybody has to take turns alternating, one-for-one.
I think that fortunately or unfortunately, you have hit the nail on the head. I truly believe that we do NOT need more laws in this regard, only ENFORCEMENT.
Hey -- that's pretty strange. I'd forgotten I'd updated my profile. The Scion is mine, which I'll be using to commute from Hingham to Cambridge once it gets too cold for the bike.
I don't envy your trip, but none of us have great ones around here.
It does make a difference where the zippering occurs. On my commute, some people will come to complete stop in the lane that ends, to move over. What's wrong with that? I see people do this 3+ miles before the lane actually ends! There is absolutely no reason to do this. Usually one guy will just sit there with his blinkers on. This usually always happens in clusters of 3 cars or so.
While true, mathematically, everyone must flow through the 2 lane road, so it would seem it wouldn't matter where the zipper occurs, but there is a flaw with that argument.
If you zipper at the chokepoint, usually everyone takes there turn. Because you can predict what's going to happen, you don't even need to slow down, as you can pace yourself to allow cars in front and in back of you to come in.
When you have these clusters of cars here and there, pulling in and random locations, you can't do that. Only way to let them in, is if somebody slows down/stops. And as soon as someone slows down, the people behind hit the brakes, etc. Then when you go to speed back up, the guy behind you already came to a complete stop, etc etc.
I read AVS's comment and decided the continue to the end of the lane and then zipper. The safety aspect of people who have learned to merge early and be courteous to other drivers rather than cuttoing in at the last minute is a reason I've changed my mind.
"Speeding is banned but everyone does it because speed limits aren't enforced."
Actually, everyone speeds because everyone knows that it's reasonable and safe to do so in most situations. Here's an illustration: Most people don't steal. This is not because police enforce the law, it's because they know and believe it to be wrong. Most people do speed. Similarly, it's not because limits aren't enforced, it's because they know that the limits are unreasonable in most situations.
that the two most bothersome bad habits drivers around here have are poor lane discipline, and failure to use turn signals.
By far the most annoying is the lane discipline thing. It's been beat to death in TH for years, but I honestly think it's taken on proportions I never considered possible, at least in eastern MA. I suspect the problem is typical of all urban areas.
My commute consists of the following road types:
2-lane 35mph residential and feeders - 3 miles, 6 min. 4-lane divided arterial 50 mph (Rt. 9) with at-grade intersections - 7 miles, 25 min.! 6-lane Interstate 55mph (I-90) - 16 miles, 15 min.
I travel counter-traffic, and the roads run free all the way. The only reason that 7 mile stretch takes 25 minutes is that the left lane is filled with mopers and campers who dawdle along at 40 mph, delay at the few lights and generally will not allow traffic to pass and flush through.
The key problem you're facing is the "divided" part. In Detroit, we have a ton of divided roads. Problem is that to get to a business on the other side of the road, or even just to turn left, you have to get into one of the u-turn lanes on the left side of the road, pull onto the road going the other way, and then make a right. So this means that even the slow drivers HAVE to use the left lane. And since the slow drivers aren't usually keen on making last minute lane changes, they get into the left lane about five miles from their turn-off and just stay there.
That's true, plus the entering/exiting traffic is so constant that many (most) just get over and stay there to avoid the interruptions. I can understand the reasons, but they could at least move on at somewhere near the speed limit, or get over to let others pass. No, they will ride contentedly next to another car for miles.
At least I've learned that because of this blockage it doesn't matter at all how aggresively people go at the road. Lane-jump and flash your lights all you want, you end up at the I-90 interchange surrounded by the same bone-heads you were with when you got on the road. So might as well settle back and ride it out. I do it in the right lane, though.
"Lane-jump and flash your lights all you want, you end up at the I-90 Interchange surrounded by the same bone-heads you were with when you got on the road, So might as well settle back and ride it out."
Well, exactly when you pass people and then hit a toll plaza you have to re-pass all those people you passed all pver again. It kind of is a bad deal.
On a seperate note I always wondered about left lane capers. Can't they just move out of the way? Why do those people choose to camp in the left lane? Of course I am not fast enough to be in the left lane of an interstate highway ever for some reason. It doesn't bother me as much as other people. Usually if there are 3 lanes on one side of an interstate I am usually in the middle or in the right lane and not the real fast lane. On Rt 22 in Central NJ sometimes I use the left lane. I try to move over when I am done passing the cars I want to pass so I can let the other people who might be faster than me pass. On other roads in New Jersey this is difficult though. Usually on Route 18 in East Brunswick you have 3 lanes each way. The right lane I never go in it. I always stick to the middle lane. The right lane people are always exiting off to go to the Brunswick Square Mall or to use other roads that run off Route 18. Even though I am in the middle lane people can still pass me on the left.
bottgers: So does that mean everyone should decide for themselves which laws actually need to be obeyed and which ones to ignore?
No, it means that most drivers have figured out that speed limits on many roads have no relationship to their stated intent (i.e, to improve safety), and therefore drive accordingly.
On the interstates around here, I'm more wary of the "I-always-drive-the-speed-limit-no-matter-what" drivers than people who cruise along at safe, comfortable speeds in the 75-85 mph range.
On the other hand, drivers in school zones and downtowns in the area do obey posted speed limits, because these limits have a relationship to improved safety.
Exactly. Laws are there to enforce safety and justice, and that's why people obey them. If a law does neither, most people recognize it and act instead in a safe and just manner.
So, yes, essentially society as a whole decides which laws are just and whether they should obey them. Which is why most people speed on the highway. Which is also why they only feel put-upon and resentful when they are pulled over, rather than ashamed.
On the interstates around here, I'm more wary of the "I-always-drive-the-speed-limit-no-matter-what" drivers than people who cruise along at safe, comfortable speeds in the 75-85 mph range.
On the other hand, drivers in school zones and downtowns in the area do obey posted speed limits, because these limits have a relationship to improved safety.
I agree that it is (mostly) safe to go 75-85 on an interstate (in a modern car.) The problem is, if most people are breaking the law on the interstate and getting away with it, they are getting conditioned to doing it everywhere.
<<So, yes, essentially society as a whole decides which laws are just and whether they should obey them.>>
I think society as a whole has chosen to ignore the following laws as well: 1) Keep right except to pass 2) Do not drive distracted 3) Signal before turns/lane changes etc. So, let's not worry about these either.
I don't think the average person evaluates a law to see if it is just. Laws are broken when no apparent victim is perceived.
Today I had an inconsiderate oaf on a motorcycle pull out in front of me, in a parking lot. He was looking my way with eyes wide open. As if he wasn't expecting me, with the right of way, to be there. I was already on the brakes, so, he didn't get broken.
Yesterday, I saw an Igmo(ignorant moron) in an Exploder, actually lay rubber to turn left in front of a bicyclist, who was in the right. If that bike rider had a flyswatter with swat end removed, he could have left a nice calling card to the would be vehicular assaulter. That's how close it was, flyswatters aren't that long.
It really bugs me when oncoming traffic swerves into my lane to go around a pedestrian, or someother slowmover(Amish buggies), when I'm coming right there. I usually drive right at them, which is to say, center of my lane. They almost always jerk back quickly. I guess they don't want to be charged with several moving violations, and have their insurance jacked up.
I'm on the right lane, with a car behind me. A line of cars is merging from the right. I change lanes to the left.
The idiot behind me decides to PASS me on the right, thereby defeating the purpose of my lane change and also creating a more dangerous situation for all of us by blocking merging traffic and lining up three cars next to each other. Grrrr...
I was driving on a 4 lane road (2 in each direction) with no extra turning lane, just double yellow. My direction is bumper to bumper at about 7 miles over speed limit. The woman behind me was tailgating so I let the gap in front of me grow by about 50% so that she wouldn't hit me if I needed to slam on the brakes. Her gap was about 5 ft. I see her cross the double yellow and assumed she was turning left. She passed one car that was coming towards her in the outside lane without incident and then made to pass me as another car came towards her head-on. I hit my brakes and let her in because by this time she was 70% past me. But the thing is. I'm really ticked off at myself for not closing the gap completely when she first pulled out. What an idiot. I had no idea she was insane and after all of that, she only gained less than one second on her time. I'm not saying I should have helped her to crash; I'm saying she should have been the one required to slow down and slip back in behind me. But like some politicians, she wouldn't change her mind no matter the consequences.
Yup, totally insane and worthy of a host of traffic citations. But of course you realize that it was your fault. Can you imagine how frustrated she must have been by that gap in front of your vehicle....
"Why did he create that gap, he could be driving faster, he is intentionally holding my up. Well I'll just slip ahead of the jerk."
So, what kind of car was Princess driving? Could you tell her age or judge her appearance. Just curious what type of woman has such a strong sense of self-entitlement that she would commit such a blatantly illegal, rude, and pointless maneuver.
When in stop-and-go traffic and a lane ends, the most efficient flow of traffic and use of roadway occurs when alternating cars from both lanes merge using the zipper method at the very end of the dropped lane, right where the dotted line ends. It is inefficient, confusing, aggravating, and potentially dangerous to merge any sooner than that under these conditions. And under no circumstances is it legitimate for someone in the through lane to move over and interfere with traffic in the lane that ends further down the road. Period.
When I am in the through lane and cars are passing me in the ending lane I may get a bit annoyed, but I know that I have no legitimate reason to be angry at the cars passing me, even if one of them had just been directly behind me and wanted to squeeze in up ahead. I could choose to do the same maneuver, but if I don't, I have only myself to blame or congratulate.
When the traffic is moving along, the efficient flow of traffic is best served by merging before the end of the lane, because you need time to maneuver into a slot.
She was about 30, dark hair about 1.5" long. Slightly oversized glasses. Her rear-view mirror wasn't adjusted right because I couldn't see her eyes as I was giving her the double bird. But I got a good look at her as she was passing me; as I sat there dumbfounded. She drove a ~2003 Subaru Outback hatchback, probably 3.0 liter, since she had pretty good acceleration. My car is slightly faster than that, had I decided to race her.
There are crazy drivers in every age/gender/race classification. My grandmother used to take me dragging main once in while in her Dodge. She was about 70 and I was about 12. It was great when she would leave some high school kid in the dust. "This car's got plenty of power when you need it." She would say, as the light turned green.
Well, what goes around, comes around. You can bet that she will eventually learn her lesson the hard way. We can only hope that is expensive, but not fatal. :P
Comments
The professional taking a call or making a call and doing business on the phone. They generally move to the right lane and slow down to 50 or 55 on the 3 lane interstate.
The other is the social talker who is yaking away, gossiping, planning, passing the time by talking on their free unlimited minutes, and is really mentally engrossed in handling the social and emotional factors of the conversation. The often have lots of head movement indicating emotional involvment with their conversation. I've even seen many with hand gestures as they talk. All the while tailgating you, because if they stay within 20 feet, their peripheral vision keeps them going at the right speed. Otherwise they might slow down by forgetting to push on the acceleration due to involvement in their conversation.
No. I don't have a cell phone any more.
Yes. When I had a Nextel as a part of my job, I slowed down when a call came in and looked for a driveway to stop shortly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The fact they're not holding a phone with one hand doesn't improve their driving.
I did misspeak in my earlier comment. We do have a cell phone. We have ONStar cell phone service. But it's rarely used. It's hands free and I find it distracting when I get a call or make one.
If anyone thinks it's not a serious subject about cell phone use being dangerous, a lady and one or two children were killed when she was calling ahead to home returning from Indianapolis. She changed lanes at a traffic slowdown in construction at 70 and 75 interchange and hit a slow-moving or stopped semi. Deadly. As I recall she was on the phone at the time. Sad.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A common one (at least once a week I see this) at a major intersection near my work I'll see people waiting to make a left turn. They'll stop because they didn't get up to the intersection in time for the arrow. Then as soon as cars begin to cross the intersection they'll floor it through to make their left turn. EVERY SINGLE TIME THESE PEOPLE ARE ON CELL PHONES! I mean they don't make you stupid do they?
What other stupid things have people done while on Cell phones . . . Oh! Years ago someone in a Tercel blew a stop sign and T-Boned my sister in law's Mazda 929. He hit that car HARD because the entire passenger side was caved in. His excuse was he was dialing his cell phone. "It wasn't my fault" Yes that is what he told the police.
What annoys me though is people that will stop their vehicle to use the cell phone. What I mean is they'll stop in a parking lot. They won't find a parking space, instead they'll just stop where ever they feel like stopping. Or they'll pull into the center lane of a road and stop to use their phone when there's a parking lot a left turn away. Usually when I've seen people do this they've been impeding on people who would want to use that lane to make a left turn or avoid someone on a cell phone who starts swerving into their lane. ;-)
I think the person on the other end usually gets annoyed with me anyway. I'll start not paying attention to the conversation at all because I'm trying to drive. ;-) This is a good thing because I save a ton of money on cell phone minutes.
I have a friend who insists on talking on his cell phone all the time. One time he was driving and I ended up grabbing the steering wheel from the passenger seat because he was driving, talking on the phone and fiddling with the radio and didn't notice someone who parked close to the center of the road and flung their door open in front of him.
Needless to say I try to drive now when I hang out with that person.
There have been times I've been inclined to drive her car, and let her be the passenger, but I refuse to do stick specially on her unreliable Passat which things FALL from it at any given time. DO NOT wish to be responsible for the next 1XXX part that breaks down. SO I'm left as a backseat driver just critisizing.
Yes, her next car WILL be an Automatic...
The upshot is I would be on the side of ticketing for "ANY" distractive behavior. I have read that the number one "distractive" cause of accidents and fatalities happens to be eating food!!?? Seems that consumption of "FAST" food while driving is not only "deadly" to the consumptive distractive driver!!!
1. Holding the phone
2. listening and interpreting the other persons words
3. Synthesizing your response, including emotional response
4. Watch and drive carefully
For the food
1. Hold the food
2. Chew, a habit or skill requiring no thinking.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I am anxious to learn.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I also read that (cell phone) fatalities were 1,200 per year of (app) 43,000 for the 2003 year . Since NHTSA does not break it down this far, any legislation that cites just cell phones and not the whole gambit of "distractions" is counter productive on many levels.
Put yourself in the "victims place." If you were the victim, is it or will it be any consolation to you that you were killed by a cell phone user or a big mac eater? Or a driving a parent that was trying to discipline a child in the back seat?
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/pressdisplay.cfm?ye- - ar=2004&filename=FFARSrls404.html
I am on everything from quiet side streets to main commuter arteries to busy downtown (Boston) city streets and long bridges during the 10 mile commute. The worst stretch is a quarter mile or so segment in my little suburb. I ride the sidewalk on that part after having tried to ride on the road. I was loudly cursed, beeped at and nearly flattened several times and, to my regret, retreated to the sidewalk.
Hi Tom! Framingham to Stoughton every day is my ride.
Ugh, Rte 9 AND 128 in the morning? you should have all kinds of Inconsiderate stories
So when you're driving around in a car with someone you can always put the conversation on hold to focus on traffic because you aren't going to lose them. I know my wife gets frustrated when she is trying to have a conversation with me when I am driving. I'll stop in mid sentence when the constantly changing traffic situation commands my attention. I'll forget that I was even saying anything and after a bit I'll hear "well?"
I've noticed the drivers here are for the most part very bad. Most of them don't use their turn signals and they all speed and tailgate. I think a big part of the problem is that there doesn't seem to be any patrols that monitor traffic at all. I see very few patrol cars on the road and ususally when I do see one, they seem to be on their way somewhere. I've never seen one monitoring traffic. People probably drive the way they do because there's absolutely no threat of them having to suffer any consequences for their poor driving habits. Maybe there should be more (or some) patrols for monitoring traffic? Not only would this make our roads safer, it would generate more revenue for local government. What's your take on this?
Also, I've never seen a place where the price of gas fluxuates so often, or so drastically. For example, just Tuesday of this week at the Speedway on the corner of Old Troy Pike and I-70, the price for reg unleaded was $1.70. Yesterday the price jumped to $1.97 (that's a $.27 jump in one day). Today it went back down to $1.87. The price has been doing this since I got here in June. I realize the market is very unstable and the price of crude oil changes on a daily basis, but I've never seen prices that were as all over the place as they are here. I've brought this up in the "Report your local gas prices here" topic, but no one else seems to be able to explain this. Do you know what's up with this?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Another factor is that unmarked police cars are not used for traffic control by state law. Indiana makes a killing with their undercover cars catching aggressive and fast driving.
I used to be able to tell a car from this area of Ohio traveling in the left lane on I-75 coming north through Kentucky. They're the ones who get right up on your bumper and started flashing their headlights a couple hundred feet behind so you would know to get out of their way. And I'm only going 75 in a 65 zone!!! They often were cars from Butler, Montgomery, and Miami Counties used to driving like that on I-75 in our area.
The only other pattern cars doing that I found were Ontario drivers returning from Florida who had been on the road a long time.
I did post in the ohter forum about gas prices.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
In Portland, on I-5, it is 3 lanes wide going into the city. There is a bridge, where it shrinks down to 2 lanes. There is a sign, saying "right lane ends in 1 mile". In the morning, you know all the drivers on the freeway are commuters. Many of them know the lane ends ahead, so they change lanes back on the interstate bridge, which is probably a good 4 miles before the merge. Now traffic is almost always backed up in the morning. Where are we supposed to merge? I personally go all the way to end, or pretty close to it and merge. Am I supposed to merge in earlier? How much earlier? Try coming to portland. It's not uncommon to see the left two lanes bumper to bumper, and the right lane EMPTY for 3+ miles. Am I supposed to take this 3 lane freeway and turn it into a 2 lane freeway? I'd also think twice about straddling the line. One time there was VW new beetle in front of me. It honked at a guy straddling the line. After a few honks, on came red and blue flashers. It was an undercover.
Personally I think if people actually used all 3 lanes, instead of only 2, and actually do the zipper properly, there would be LESS traffic. I see it all the time. At the choke point, I see cars zoom up to block the other guy, even though the umpteen number of cars in front of them were zippering just fine. The blocker than causes the other car to slam on the brakes, which causes other people to slam on brakes, etc etc. If they would've just let the guy zipper in, nobody would've had to slow down. The only time I've seen zippering fail, and people actually stop, instead of staying at a constant speed, was always when someone didn't know what a zipper merge was. You say it may save only 6 seconds or so, I say, come to portland. I did it before with a friend, that is against zippering. They got in line in the left about 4 miles before the merge, I went on my normal way. I told him to call me, when he got to the freeway interchange. Turns out he was about 20 minutes behind me, even though we got on the freeway at the same time.
Now on to my second question. When using a cell phone with a hands free system, how is this any different or more dangerous than talking to a passenger in your car? I would almost argue it is safer than talking to your passenger. At least when on the phone, you are still looking where you are going. I don't know how many times I've been a passenger, and the driver kept looking at me while talking to me. Even when I'm in the back seat
I don't think cell phones make driving any more dangerous. It's the person using it. When I'm on the phone, I always tell the person on the phone to ,"Hang on", while I merge, or do something that requires my attention. The people that don't do that, are the same ones I see digging for something in their purse while driving, shaving, reading a book, etc.
As for saying that you are more involved with a cell phone conversation, again... Depends on the scenario. When I'm physically talking to someone, and my cell phone rings, I usually don't answer it, unless caller ID says it's someone important. But how is that different, then when a coworker is in my cube talking to me, and the VP walks by and wants to talk to me? You pick and choose your conversations, regardless of the medium.
There are a couple lane drops on my commute, and my approach is to try to use the lane that moves through best. In my experience, the lane that is closing is the fastest way through, and the lane on the opposite side is next. The slowest lane is the one next to the closed one, since it ultimately has to carry traffic from both. If traffic is moving freely I usually go to the opposite side and ride it out there. If traffic is braking to S&G I will go down the closing lane and move over into a convenient opening near the end. I hate sitting at the end begging...
Cell phones are a problem, but not much bigger problem than other distractions. I say scrap the laws against them and outlaw driving while distracted.
But, that said I do think a phone conversation is much more distracting than talking with a passenger. The main reason IMO is that silence is intolerable on a phone. You can see a passenger, and they can see what's going on and shut up when appropriate. Also, and not a point to be underestimated, the driver is "performing" for a passenger, and will usually try to drive better when they are on stage. The person on the other end of a phone can't see just how badly you're driving...
A phone conversation makes too many addressable gray cells unavailable for the driving thing. First your mind maintains a mental connection to the other person, complete with an image. Then you have to track and understand and store what was said, and formulate a response without interrupting the flow of the conversation. True, if necessary you can say "Hold on a minute", or simply drop the phone, but that is in emergency situations. People tend to be reluctant to do that. But meanwhile their speed drops, their attention wanes, they stop using turn signals or looking behind properly when changing lanes etc. Some of the stoopidest moves I've ever seen were made while talking on a phone.
I know, I know (ducking flames) some people are still wonderful drivers while talking on a phone. I've watched enough other people make bone-headed moves that I started watching my own driving while on the phone. Know what? My driving was not as good. Not bad, but there is little room for decreasing driving skills in my life, so I stopped using it while driving.
My 2 pennies - YMMV.
Very good analysis of the difference.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't envy your trip, but none of us have great ones around here.
Cheers, Al.
While true, mathematically, everyone must flow through the 2 lane road, so it would seem it wouldn't matter where the zipper occurs, but there is a flaw with that argument.
If you zipper at the chokepoint, usually everyone takes there turn. Because you can predict what's going to happen, you don't even need to slow down, as you can pace yourself to allow cars in front and in back of you to come in.
When you have these clusters of cars here and there, pulling in and random locations, you can't do that. Only way to let them in, is if somebody slows down/stops. And as soon as someone slows down, the people behind hit the brakes, etc. Then when you go to speed back up, the guy behind you already came to a complete stop, etc etc.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Actually, everyone speeds because everyone knows that it's reasonable and safe to do so in most situations. Here's an illustration: Most people don't steal. This is not because police enforce the law, it's because they know and believe it to be wrong. Most people do speed. Similarly, it's not because limits aren't enforced, it's because they know that the limits are unreasonable in most situations.
By far the most annoying is the lane discipline thing. It's been beat to death in TH for years, but I honestly think it's taken on proportions I never considered possible, at least in eastern MA. I suspect the problem is typical of all urban areas.
My commute consists of the following road types:
2-lane 35mph residential and feeders - 3 miles, 6 min.
4-lane divided arterial 50 mph (Rt. 9) with at-grade intersections - 7 miles, 25 min.!
6-lane Interstate 55mph (I-90) - 16 miles, 15 min.
I travel counter-traffic, and the roads run free all the way. The only reason that 7 mile stretch takes 25 minutes is that the left lane is filled with mopers and campers who dawdle along at 40 mph, delay at the few lights and generally will not allow traffic to pass and flush through.
Very, very annoying habits.
At least I've learned that because of this blockage it doesn't matter at all how aggresively people go at the road. Lane-jump and flash your lights all you want, you end up at the I-90 interchange surrounded by the same bone-heads you were with when you got on the road. So might as well settle back and ride it out. I do it in the right lane, though.
Well, exactly when you pass people and then hit a toll plaza you have to re-pass all those people you passed all pver again. It kind of is a bad deal.
On a seperate note I always wondered about left lane capers. Can't they just move out of the way? Why do those people choose to camp in the left lane? Of course I am not fast enough to be in the left lane of an interstate highway ever for some reason. It doesn't bother me as much as other people. Usually if there are 3 lanes on one side of an interstate I am usually in the middle or in the right lane and not the real fast lane. On Rt 22 in Central NJ sometimes I use the left lane. I try to move over when I am done passing the cars I want to pass so I can let the other people who might be faster than me pass. On other roads in New Jersey this is difficult though. Usually on Route 18 in East Brunswick you have 3 lanes each way. The right lane I never go in it. I always stick to the middle lane. The right lane people are always exiting off to go to the Brunswick Square Mall or to use other roads that run off Route 18. Even though I am in the middle lane people can still pass me on the left.
No, it means that most drivers have figured out that speed limits on many roads have no relationship to their stated intent (i.e, to improve safety), and therefore drive accordingly.
On the interstates around here, I'm more wary of the "I-always-drive-the-speed-limit-no-matter-what" drivers than people who cruise along at safe, comfortable speeds in the 75-85 mph range.
On the other hand, drivers in school zones and downtowns in the area do obey posted speed limits, because these limits have a relationship to improved safety.
So, yes, essentially society as a whole decides which laws are just and whether they should obey them. Which is why most people speed on the highway. Which is also why they only feel put-upon and resentful when they are pulled over, rather than ashamed.
On the other hand, drivers in school zones and downtowns in the area do obey posted speed limits, because these limits have a relationship to improved safety.
I agree that it is (mostly) safe to go 75-85 on an interstate (in a modern car.) The problem is, if most people are breaking the law on the interstate and getting away with it, they are getting conditioned to doing it everywhere.
I think society as a whole has chosen to ignore the following laws as well:
1) Keep right except to pass
2) Do not drive distracted
3) Signal before turns/lane changes etc.
So, let's not worry about these either.
I don't think the average person evaluates a law to see if it is just. Laws are broken when no apparent victim is perceived.
Yesterday, I saw an Igmo(ignorant moron) in an Exploder, actually lay rubber to turn left in front of a bicyclist, who was in the right. If that bike rider had a flyswatter with swat end removed, he could have left a nice calling card to the would be vehicular assaulter. That's how close it was, flyswatters aren't that long.
It really bugs me when oncoming traffic swerves into my lane to go around a pedestrian, or someother slowmover(Amish buggies), when I'm coming right there. I usually drive right at them, which is to say, center of my lane. They almost always jerk back quickly. I guess they don't want to be charged with several moving violations, and have their insurance jacked up.
The idiot behind me decides to PASS me on the right, thereby defeating the purpose of my lane change and also creating a more dangerous situation for all of us by blocking merging traffic and lining up three cars next to each other. Grrrr...
"Why did he create that gap, he could be driving faster, he is intentionally holding my up. Well I'll just slip ahead of the jerk."
So, what kind of car was Princess driving? Could you tell her age or judge her appearance. Just curious what type of woman has such a strong sense of self-entitlement that she would commit such a blatantly illegal, rude, and pointless maneuver.
james
When I am in the through lane and cars are passing me in the ending lane I may get a bit annoyed, but I know that I have no legitimate reason to be angry at the cars passing me, even if one of them had just been directly behind me and wanted to squeeze in up ahead. I could choose to do the same maneuver, but if I don't, I have only myself to blame or congratulate.
When the traffic is moving along, the efficient flow of traffic is best served by merging before the end of the lane, because you need time to maneuver into a slot.
This ain't rocket science.
There are crazy drivers in every age/gender/race classification. My grandmother used to take me dragging main once in while in her Dodge. She was about 70 and I was about 12. It was great when she would leave some high school kid in the dust. "This car's got plenty of power when you need it." She would say, as the light turned green.
james