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Although you may be right - it could have been the "you honked your horn at me and now I must DESTROY YOU!!!" attitude.
-Jason
There is NOTHING that irritates me more than tailgaters when I'm hauling a trailer, horse/firewood/camping. Do you have a deathwish? Do you realize that you don't know if I checked the hitch/safety chains/breakaway? For all you know that trailer could be hanging on with a wing and a prayer. How do you know I secured the cargo? You don't, so stay back.
Remember its 1 car length for every 10 mph, further if you are behind a trailer.
Now. Threatening my life and the life of my family for executing a perfectly legal pass? Yeah. That I have a problem with.
-Jason
There could be lots of reasons he moved over, a pothole, piece of tire in the road, lots of things. Was it right? Maybe not, but I'm sure he wasn't trying to kill you.
Mirrors aside though, the number one reason that people sideswipe others is simply because THEY DON'T BOTHER TO LOOK! Back in '96, I got sideswiped in my '68 Dart by a then-new Dodge Ram pickup. I put a nice deep crease down the entire length of his 8 foot bed. He said "You must have been riding in my blind spot". Umm, sorry dude, but by definition, a pickup truck with no camper shell on it doesn't have a blind spot!
Maybe it's just me, but I was raised to not trust what you see in your mirrors, but actually LOOK before you make a lane change!
-Jason
As much as I despise the use of cell phones while driving, it isn't my #1 pet peeve. That's reserved for tailgaters. I always drive between the speed limit and 5 mph over the limit and yet there is constantly someone riding my back bumper. While men and women both do it, I notice it a lot more by women. I think a lot of the women around here have that hurry syndrome because most of them drive 15-20 mph over the limit. Sometime during my lifetime I am going develop some type of a device that projects messages from the rear of my vehicle that tells drivers behind me to backoff or else! I'm sick and tired of inconsiderate drivers putting everyone else's lives in jeapordy just because they think they have to speed!
How about a sidewinder pod?....
I find around the Dayton area many drivers (more are women) seem to follow in right lane because
1) they want something to follow so they don't have to pay attention to what they're doing or so that they won't get a ticket at 3 miles over the limit because there's someone ahead of them
2) or they don't understand the laws of physics and rubber's friction on road in case they need to stop quickly... because the car ahead slowed down
I also find tapping the brake lights seems to be a stimulant for women in 'power' vehicles to tailgate more rather than back off. Had a Park Avenue type tailgate me in 35 zone on the street I've complained to local police department to use laser gun on more because of speeding and tailgating.
BTW: In past local police said judges ignore charges of tailgating -- unless they hit someone.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
How about one of those giant foam #1 hands they sell at stadiums? You can stick it out the sunroof to show them that they really or number 1 !
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Im approaching the end of one of the drives in my subdivision, preparing to turn out into the main street. The subdivision drive splits at the end(to accommodate the brick structure in the middle that has the name of the subdivision on it). So the last 8-10 feet beyond the brick structure or so is a pretty wide stretch of pavement. This large black SUV makes a "soft" or gently arching left turn into my space just as I'm approaching the end...fortunately she missed the right front end of my car by a couple of feet. That could have been real bad.
Unfortunately I see it often at intersections...cars making left turns and cutting too quickly into the opposite lane just as that first car approaches.
Well he of course held up fingers to indicate his IQ, and started tailgating me, running his mouth all the while. I eventially lost him, but what a bonehead.
Typically I'd guess that on an average freeway I follow cars with about... three to six car lengths between us? It's hard to estimate sitting here in front of my computer.
I'd say that when being followed I start to get really annoyed if the car is less than 2 car lengths behind me.
On my daily commute, OTOH the freeway is fairly full - all 3 or 4 lanes - at about 60-80 mph depending on lane. If people leave 4-6 car-lengths, passing cars fills the gaps immediately. Sometimes cars are only a couple car-lengths apart for a short period, and there is little that can be done about it. You have to either be super-alert, or get in the right lane and stay there.
Kyle
With the Passat I have a much closer view, and a lot more vested interest in not getting rear-ended. I try to get rid of them if possible.
I bet that guy *never* tailgated again
Turboshadow
No, it doesn't. There are no such things as accidents. They are "crashes". At least that's what WI DOT tells me on their website.
"I think you'll agree there's a huge difference between the examples you've created and what happened in the Alaska example. Hitting a patch of ice or having bad depth perception is one thing; taking your eyes off the road for ten seconds to watch a DVD or to reach for a can of soda is another."
Is it, though? Why do YOU get to decide that? I'm asking you, because remember, YOU were the one that advocated tossing everyone in jail who causes an accident due to distracted driving (a term, as yet, undefined, except by you--which is convenient). To me, if you hit a patch of ice and lose control, it is STILL DRIVER ERROR! You were going too fast for conditions and failed to maintain control of your vehicle. In insurance, if that caused a crash, that person would be liable for the property damage and bodily injury caused. Based on your initial post, it seems that person should go to jail. If the law holds him civilly liable, I would think applying your logic he would be criminally liable, too.
"Bottom line: driving is not a right. I would rather have people inconvenienced, red-taped, and over-governed than have even one person lose his life because some selfish jackhole is fiddling with his dashboard NAV or putting "Dunston Checks In" into the DVD for his kids."
Before you think I'm advocating the ability of people to drive in whatever manner they choose, doing whatever they like, without consequence, let me just say that I agree that truly negligent driving deserves to be punished. DUI causing death is Voluntary Manslaughter/Vehicular Homicide and those convicted of that should be tossed away for a long time. But, distractions to proper driving have been around forever, from when horse and buggy still shared the roads with cars to NAV/DVD/cell phones today. I, for one, do not want things to get to the point where we are tossing every person in jail for causing an accident while distracted, because laws like that have unintended consequences. Thus, my example of turning back to check on a choking or screaming child. YOU do that and cause a crash do you expect to be thrown in jail? I sure hope so, because that's a distraction the SAME as any other.
The standard that applies now is adequate. Was the driving criminally negligent. It doesn't matter how "tragic" the accident was or anything else. It also doesn't matter whether that the driver was using one of those gum-danged new fangled gadgets or turning around to check on his kids. Criminial negligence is a certain standard that needs to be met and if not, then that person does not belong in jail. I would argue that crashing after reaching down for a soda and crashing after hitting a patch of ice are equally negligent. People can and have been prosecuted for driving too fast for conditions, reckless driving, etc.
I think you are completely missing the point here. There are things that are beyond one's control (child choking, getting a heart attack etc.). Nobody is advocating jail sentence for these.
Next, there are things that are very hard to judge, i.e. hitting a patch of ice. These should be dealt with on a case by case basis.
Final category is where driver has complete control,i.e. taking your eyes off the road to do anything such as calling on cellphone,reading a map, reaching for a soda etc. If you do one of these and cause a fatal accident, you certainly deserve to go to jail.
Lumping all of these distractions into just one category and thus equating them is just plain naive.
Last I checked, I make my payments to "American Honda finance" Import companies have done more for creating jobs in this country than domestics have. That's why you get Mexican built pickups and Chinese built motors.
Again, I have an Ohio built Accord and a Canadian Acura. Why am I un-American???
That's obviously what this guy was getting at...
kirstie_h
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Driving into work this morning, I was merging off the highway onto the road that my company is on, driving along, no big deal, when this Chevy Avalanche came flying up behind me, flashed his high beams and started tailgating me for probably 200 yards, maybe 1 foot between my trunk and his front bumper! I slowed down figuring he was late for work, in a hurry, whatever so I pulled over to let him pass. Not even over to the side yet, and passes me on the left, almost sideswiping me and cuts me off, again almost striking the front of the vehicle. I was peeved, (still am) so I followed him for a while, pointing at him to pull over! I so wish a cop had seen this...
So he pulls over, gets out his truck starts walking over to my car. Meanwhile, I get out and start yelling <edited for content> What is your problem?!?!?! This guy was probably 35 - 40 maybe, medium build, no bigger than I so I'll stand up to him.
Went something like this:
Me (absolutely steaming): What is your problem?!?!?!
him: Next time get your little foriegn tin can off the road. You should be even on these roads...
me: Huh?!?! I work here... <edited>
him: You need to get out of the way so us real Americans can get to our jobs. Only American's should drive on these roads, and obviously, you're not American. Go back to China or whatever and drive on their roads. You don't belong here! Got back in his truck and sped off...
Now, I'm just stunned. What is this, 2004? Right? And, mind you, I'm in Massachussets. I'm about as white bread American as they come, but just because of my choice of Vehicle, A Honda Accord from Ohio (not China btw) I'm almost killed by some jerk who decided I'm not allowed to share the road with his Chevy truck!!!
But then construction trades are the only group of people I know who still commonly throw litter out the window of their vehicles. Common sense and concern for their fellow man aren't required skills...
Thats a real nice way to treat a fellow American. Guess what, in America, we have the FREEDOM to buy whatever we choose. YOu want to buy domestic great, you want to buy foreign great, its YOUR choice, nobody eles. It really pisses me off when people try to impose their choices, beliefs, etc. on me. YOu know what that is, its facism or communism or some ism, but its NOT a free choice process. You want to try to limit my choices, guess who's I'm calling un-american then. THere, I am stepping off the soapbox now.
Thanks,
Kyle
Well, gee, that's good to know. Ok, people who've been driving for 30 accident-free years: make sure you don't reach for that soda! But feel free to turn completely around and attend to your child's screaming--that's ok! Never mind the person that got killed when you blew the stop sign while doing so. At least you weren't on a cell phone! You will probably argue I'm blowing this out of proportion. I don't believe I am. It's truly absurd to me for anyone to decide that some kinds of distractions are ok, but these, like cell phones, radios, soda reaching--oh no, those are terrible--a threat to civilization! It must be stopped. A fatal crash is a fatal crash and if it's caused by a distracted driver, an adequate solution to how we punish this is "it depends"?
"Next, there are things that are very hard to judge, i.e. hitting a patch of ice. These should be dealt with on a case by case basis."
Yes, and they already are--just like any other fatal crash. Whether it's distraction, ice or otherwise. As I noted, if some drivers are so good as the purport to be (I don't talk on the phone, I don't reach for the soda, I am never distracted types), then they should recognize conditions when ice could be an issue. Losing control after hitting ice is too fast for conditions. Driver error, the same as choosing to reach for a soda.
"Lumping all of these distractions into just one category and thus equating them is just plain naive."
So is deciding that NOW, all of a sudden, there are distractions to driving to require people be thrown in jail. As I said, as things in general evolve, so do the distractions to good driving. You think in the 50s and 60s, when fatal crash rates were astronomical compared to now, there weren't distractions? Yes, that rate has been reduced because of safer cars, etc--but SOMETHING still caused the accidents. Where was the outrage and hand wringing then over all the stupid things people do that distract them from driving?
I guess my only point is bad driving is bad driving, whatever the cause and bad driving causes crashes. Certain things are so easy to pick out for criminal prosecution, like drunk driving, as to make it a no brainer. But, to say going 70 on a highway when you "don't expect" ice and then hitting ice and killing 3 people in a minivan isn't the same as reaching down for a soda and rearending someone is ridiculous. At least, IMO.
There have been times where I've been tailgated and I just slam my brakes...enough to just have them bump me (in some cases it has damaged the other persons car, never mine)... Then in that situation, just be calm... call the cops to report it (even though you have no damage) And out of the 11 times I've done it, 9 had no insurance and their car was impounded, license revoked, fines implemented etc. All with a big grin on your face of course. Doesn't take more than 15 minutes actually, depending on your municipality.
Thanks for the comments and opinion.
Honda is still a part of Honda Japan. The Crown Vics are Ford motor. Now matter where the car is build the eventual profit (after income tax and other maneuvering to avoid or minimize taxes in state or federal domains) goes to the home of the parent company.
I do have to ask if the driver's speed was below the limit for the road... I can't understand why the Chevy driver was so unwired. I do not want to imply that the author of the post was responsible for the tailgating... If not excessively below speed limit, then the other driver's just crazy.
I just use the cell phone to call the police and report the license number when it happens around my local suburb. I had a Dodge Ram driver pass me in the left turn lanes on a two-way road. (He was building trades because he had a jet style heater in the open bed of his pick-em-up truck.)
I've been tailgated on 3-lane I75 by a Suburban type vehicle just because I was only going 5 over the limit in heavy traffic outside Cincy. I just try to stay away from them after they get what they want...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But basically, the autos are all global companies now.
Anyone got an inconsiderate driver story?
I consider littering to be inconsiderate, which makes my comment on-topic. Country of origin is not, but all of the mentioned companies are publically traded corporations, and the lion's share of the profits go to the share-holders, who can reside almost anywhere. Country of origin is increasingly meaningless.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I never said that.
Here is my position for one last time:
If you cause a fatal accident and there are extenuating circumstances (such as getting a heart attck etc.) that are beyond the
driver's control, then harsh punishment is not necessary.
If you cause a fatal accident by doing something that is within your control to postpone or avoid (such as reaching for a can of soda) then harsh punishment is appropriate.
Here is what you said:
"Next, there are things that are very hard to judge, i.e. hitting a patch of ice. These should be dealt with on a case by case basis.
Final category is where driver has complete control,i.e. taking your eyes off the road to do anything such as calling on cellphone,reading a map, reaching for a soda etc. If you do one of these and cause a fatal accident, you certainly deserve to go to jail."
Now, maybe I'm reading too much into this or creating a subtlety you didn't intend, but to me, that sounds like "eh, it's ice, can't control it, carry on...cell phone? Arrrrgh. At fault, goodbye, do not pass Go, do not collect $200".
My position is this:
Laws already exist to punish criminally negligent behavior. Some (maybe most?) have separate laws, in fact, "criminally negligent homicide", where neither manslaughter nor murder are technically appropriate. We can, then, agree to disagree about what is and is not criminally negligent. You say reaching for a soda. I say if that's the case, then doing 70 on the highway and hitting a patch of ice is similiarly negligent.
That's the reason most of these cases do not end up in criminal court. The public realizes that drunk driving, for example, is a proactive thing people do BEFORE they even get in the car--they can decide not to drive altogether. Thus, DUI wiht death/injury is typically dealt with harshly. All the other stuff, the ordinary public can see happening--they turn the radio, reach for a soda, answer the phone because the kids are at home with a babysitter, whatever. They look at it as an accident--an accident that they are civilly liable for, yes--but an accident nonetheless. So to adopt a system where distracted drivers are tossed in jail is only the beginning of slope where people like me get on a jury and start saying "well, it's winter in WI, don't you automatically expect theere MIGHT be ice?" and put people away for that. To me, I don't personally think it's a good idea to put either of them away, but if you're going to toss the cell phone using, soda reacher, you've got to toss the drove too fast even though it's winter or I didn't see the stop sign people, too.
And it didn't work...
What is it with conservative GM defenders and reading comprehension? Maybe it's a liberal conspiracy
Does calling the cops about a random inconsiderate act really do anything? It comes down to word vs. word, and I can make up some good stuff too. In these days of camera phones and easily totable digital cameras, one would hope more evidence would be sought.
I saw a couple good drivers today. I commute home on a long two lane in each direction road which is posted at 35mph, with very few cross streets, and a wide median. I saw an old granny in a Malibu who was facing the wrong way in my lane, and I don't know what she hit to get in that position, but she hit it hard. The front bumper was ripped clean off, the passenger side front fender was torn up and ragged, and the passenger side wheel was hanging by a thread. The impact set off the airbags. A total loss, no doubt. I don't know if she was "inconsiderate", but I bet she's more ammo for the anti-old driver crusade. No other vehicles involved, of course.
And then not two blocks later, at one of the only intersections on the road, an old geezer in a Park Avenue turned left from the far right lane, right in front of me! I swear he didn't even look up as he cut across several lanes. I couldn't do anything but just shake my head in awe. No rage, just shock.
I'm not ducking a definition of "distracted driving"; I just felt it was so self-evident as to not bear mentioning.
Distracted driving is the driver's deciding to engage in any activity that impedes and diminishes his or her ability to operate his or her vehicle in a safe and lawful manner. It's that simple.
Your continued insistence on equating a self-distracted driver with a driver faced with an external "distraction" like an ice patch or choking child is a red herring.
Things like mudslides, heart attacks, black ice, tornados, and so forth contributing to a situation that causes a driver to crash are hardly the same as the driver on his cell phone in a heated argument with his sweetheart, or the driver fixated on his NAV because he wants to switch the clock to military time, or the driver yelling at his kids (who quite a lot of the time aren't in age-appropriate restraint devices) because they're getting their juice boxes all over the leather seats, or the driver dozing off listening to the CD version of "My Life," or the driver juggling a gyro in one hand and a Big Gulp Diet Dr. Pepper in the other.
Contrary to what you seem to want to believe, the law allows for shades of gray and nuance. Do you honestly believe, for example, that a licensed gun dealer would be brought up on murder charges if, while showing a loaded gun to a prospective buyer, he suffered a massive heart attack and seizure and involuntarily shot and killed the buyer? Of course not: even the most iron-clad statute has an "out" for the accused whose action doesn't truly fit the intent of the law.
And contrary to what you seem to want to believe, distracted driving cases would be extremely prosecutable. There are numerous clues at the scene of a car accident that remove it from the realm of "he said, she said," and this isn't even taking into account the black boxes and other self-monitoring equipment that will eventually be standard on all cars and trucks.
Driving a car while intoxicated is a crime. Driving an unsafe, poorly maintained car is a crime. Driving while choosing to engage in extracurricular activities rather than focus entirely on the very important task at hand--safely driving the car, what a concept!--is a crime as well, and it ought to be legislated and vigorously prosecuted as such.
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In this case, I was just blatantly run off the road. YEs, I got his liscence plate, yes, I could have called the cops, and maybe I should have. But I was at boiling point. Just last week, my future wife and I were involved in a rear end collision on the highway, so the potential for 2 accidents in one week really puts you on edge.
I actually think that the whole "You're not an American" thing calmed me down a bit. Obviously this guy was an arrogant, narrow minded jerk who had some personal vendeta against anything foreign. Not worth the time really...
Maybe I should have told him my other car was a Chevy.
This guy in a Camry flys up behind me and starts tailing me. I had to move over to a farther right lane anyway so I signal and do so. At the same time as I'm moving over he tries to fly around me on my right side. Of course by the time he attempted that he wasn't able to fit because I was too far over which PISSED him off.
So he flings his car and gets along side of me to the left and starts staring at me giving me a real evil look. I do him one better. I look over and start making goofy faces. As weird as I can do. Probably not the brightest thing in the world to do but eh oh well.
He gets even more pissed and starts yelling and flips me off then speeds ahead. My sister was in the passenger seat at the time and she could see him for a bit after he sped in front of me. "Can you see him? He's cracking up laughing!"
Then a little later before I turned off he was again back to darting from lane to lane cutting people off to try to go as fast as he can down a 35 mph street. Yeesh.