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That would only slow down a NorthStar, not stop it.
I still think Gallagher had a good idea:
Issue every drive a little suction cup dart gun with like six darts, which they could use to soot at a car that does something stupid. Then when the highway patrol sees a car with a dozen of these sticking out from the side, they can pull the driver over and give him a ticket for being an AH :P
But in crowded surface/residential streets, or on crowded limited-access highways during rush hour, trying to speed just isn't worth it. You'll get a minute or two of excitement, until the next traffic light, stop sign, traffic backup, or whatever gets you.
Anyhow, I agree with you. I have experienced a barrage of this activity as well here in Fairbanks now that the roads are dry. It cracks me up, really. All winter and all summer I drive 60 on a road with an SL of 55. All winter, I pass most other drivers and all summer most other drivers pass me. I guess they are making up time for their (or vehicle's, or both) lack of wintertime competence by driving these 55 mph roads at 70-75 mph. *shrugs* To each their own.
I have a great, immediate solution to get people off my bumper or, at least, to make me more comfortable with having them there. However, I am not going to share it here because I am sure it would spark a lot of debate that I am just not interested in reading.
Agreed. And, I think I see your underlying intent even though the presentation muddled it up somewhat. I my rather analytical mind, there are a few rather simple notions that should be automatically understood or accepted by every driver:
1. Your vehicle, once on a roadway, is part of an amazingly complex system of cause and effect relationships with every other object on and around the roadway, including the road itself. Complex systems can and do break down - be wary of that which is unexpected.
2. You accept responsibility for your own life and your own actions.
3. Laws are guidelines, not gospel. Think for yourself.
4. Do your part to prevent breakdowns in the system: drive within your own capabilities, the capabilities of your automobile, and at all times be assertive, courteous, and conscientious.
5. When driving, be in the present - A rested, relaxed, and focused mind is an alert mind.
These "notions" I mention above minimize risk and simplify/expedite solutions. Unfortunately, notions 4 and 5 are becoming increasingly scarce even though, as more drivers enter the roadways, they are increasingly more important as there is less room for error than there was even a few years ago.
Ah well, I am probably beating a dead horse here and ending up just as muddled as everyone else. I better work more on #5.....
In fact, I personally always wait until they do their turn.
Not so long ago a person that I know well assumed that the lady with her car's blinkers on and slowing down was going to turn on his street... So he started moving out just to have his car's front end smashed. Turns out, she was going to turn to the next street... He was also put at fault for that accident. So better lose several seconds and save yourself a major PITA.
But I'll always remember: you cannot count on turn signals. My dad got into an accident when he pulled out because he thought the approaching car with the blinker was going to turn. He was cited of course since the turn signal means squat.
Unfortunately you are correct as it seems the axiom: "Drive defensively", has been replace by "Drive offensively".
I haven't yet taken the time to read many posts on this forum, but I know what I know, so here it goes.
The worst drivers are those which do one or more of the following on a consistent basis (in no particular order):
-Changes lanes without using their turn signals (ARGH!)
-Uses the left on highways as a cruising lane instead of a passing lane (and don't move over for thise behind who obviously want to pass).
-When the road curves they can't stay between the lines (lane discipline)
-Driving beyond the braking and handling limits of their vehicles (particulary when they're Truck, SUV or Minivan drivers).
-Not paying attention to the fact that the light turned from red to green and their can now go (instead of futzing with the stereo or their soda). Staggering the acceleration of a long line of traffic stopped at a red light has tremendous traffic delaying implication that most people are too ignorant of or too inconsiderate to take appropriate action.
-Slowing down to stare at an accident on the other side of the road (rubbernecking) which creates almost as much traffic on that side as the side where the accident occurred.
-Refuses to move into the intersection to make a left turn - particularly when there's no dedicated left turn signal (If you do, a total of two cars - three in larger intersections - can get through and make the left turn as the light cycles from yellow to red instead of nobody getting through until the light next turns green) (yes it is legal to make the left turn if you're in the intersection after the light has turned red).
-Tailgating (even if the dope in front of the tailgater has no obvious or good reason for being there).
Anyone living near a metro area knows of, has witnessed, or has been a victim of road rage. To oversimplify things, road rage manifests itself when someone becomes frustrated because conditions exist to drive at a higher rate of speed (and get to wherever faster), were it not for those in the left lane driving too slowly and not letting those behind pass, or for those left-turning at a traffic light intersection having no dedicated left turn signal.
I've got more to say but it's late. Feel free to comment (I enjoy the dialogue).
Regards,
Deanie
No doubt that tailgating is a horrible driving trait. I must say though, you're comment about driving 5-10 miles over the limit (and I'm assuming you're referring to highway driving in good driving conditions - no rain, no excessive traffic density), indicates you're actually encouraging tailgaiting because the left lane is universally used to pass by faster traffic, not for relaxed cruising. Ever see those highway signs saying "Slower traffic keep right"?
You suggest you're driving at 60-65 on a 55MPH highway, or 70-75 on a 65MPH highway, and driving at such speeds in the left lane is inappropriate when most major roadway left lanes see cars routinely traveling at 75-85 MPH and more. I'm not saying you should drive faster, but you should not be driving in the left lane at the speeds you mention because doing so impedes traffic flow, and can cause road rage in the drivers behind you. So, what's best? Moving over when it's appropriate to do so, or Sitting in the left lane because you feel like it?
The left lane is a release valve to let the pressure of faster and relatively higher traffic density bypass the slower forward traffic. Think of the left lane as the most efficient and practical means of letting the roadways "burp" or "pass gas". If you stop up that valve by not allowing the pressure to release and cars to pass, then the roadway gets a "stomach ache" and all suffer.
Better yet, constantly monitor your rear view mirror and side mirrors (as most good drivers do), and avoid a tailgaiter before he becomes one by moving over before they get within close proximity to your bumper. You can always move back into the left lane when the potential tailgater passes, unless there's a steady flow of higher speed traffic progressing in the left lane, in which case, you shouldn't be there in the first place. Let's make the most efficient and safe use of the road.
And no, I do not tailgate. Mine are just objective observations while on the road. Please comment.
Regards,
Deanie
This discussion has run several times in the topic here. Read some old posts to get the idea. The problem is that speed is limited to 65 mph. So the extra friction of the "gas" units wanting to rush on through without following rules of the road themselves is a problem. The speeder who is moving in andout of the right lane as the laws infer gets more respect from me than the left lane dominator (LLC) who stays in the left lane and never has to change lanes.
I consider lane changes dangerous and find if the LLC expects us to move in and out of right lane, often slower, traffic, they too should move in and out. But some of them don't. They are the superior "gas" and should always have a clear lane.
I have discussed these dynamics on 3 lane interstates and in I75 Dayton to Cincinnati. The problem is the LLC's attitude and the dangerous friction they represent as they cause other cars to move in and out to clear "their" lane for them. It works better if they just move through the other lanes of traffic, i.e. pass on the right.Or they can move with the general flow of traffic rather than acting like they've had a laxative.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
While I agree with you, and probably about 80% of the posters here agree with you, there is still a group of drivers who believe something along the lines of, "well, you are speeding so why should I get out of the way?"
This is probably the consistently hottest debate on this forum, and to date, I don't think I have ever seen a single LLC on this forum conced, "Okay, from now on I will stay right except to pass." (Likewise, I don't think I have ever seen a "speeder" concede, "Alright, well I will slow down and never, ever tailgate a LLC").
In short, this is one of the few driving issues where a consensus will NEVER be reached by the opposing factions, at least not on this forum and likely not on the streets.
That's why at some point you have to agree to disagree and move on
By no means should that driver feel OBLIGATED to move over for Mr. Gas. Exceeding the speed of surrounding traffic is a luxury, not a right. People who opt for this luxury really ought to remember that there is no reason to create undue stress on themselves or other drivers when the situtation (and actions of other drivers) are entirely out of their control. It is all about spheres of influence... and driving two feet off someone's bumper is not an effective way to include another driver in your sphere!
Where has the state said or implied that "Slow keep right"means slower than what the speeding herd deems it to be?
Thus, when I come up behind a LLC who is doing the limit of speed, I can't feel he is "policing" or passive agressive driving for he is just obeying the law and that's OK.
Slow move right only applies to driving less than the posted limit.
A traffic condition has occured in the roadway up ahead that reduces traffic to one lane. Say, for the sake of simplicity, that it is a repair crew sealing potholes/cracks in all but one lane. There are signs well ahead of the bottleneck that request all traffic to merge to the left lane, and there are cones set up to funnel traffic in that direction. Traffic is fairly heavy and the speed limit (construction) for the bottleneck is 40 mph, with the standard speed limit at 65. As you approach this area, you see that there is a long line of automobiles in the far left, stopped. Knowing that this is the only open lane, you pull into it and stop within the line of autos.....
But, there are a few automobiles that continue to trickle past you, driving at a high rate of speed until they reach the end of the "funnel" and are forced to stop. Now, they stay stopped, all the way at the end, until they can nose into traffic (forcing all autos behind them to stop and wait). I call these people "bulldoggers." I have no idea why, maybe I heard it somewhere, but whatever....
Anyway, you wait in this left lane for an obnoxiously long time - let's say 15 minutes to travel 1/2 of a mile. The moment you pass the end of the funnel where the bulldoggers are forcing their way in, traffic speeds up to 45 and there no more problems. I say that the source of the problem is 100% the bulldoggers rushing up to the end of the lane. What do you say?
Now, let's alter the scenario a little. Instead of a road crew, there is an accident and the road curves up a hill. You are driving in the left lane (two lanes in your direction), when suddenly you approach and begin to pass increasingly slower and heavier traffic in the right lane. You start slowing down, anticipating a problem ahead, when you see that there are emergency lights and the left lane is closed ahead. Immediately, you slow down to the speed of traffic in the right lane and signal to merge into the right lane, though you still have a good 1/4 of a mile until the left lane is blocked. Drivers in the right lane suddenly have knee-jerk reactions and nudge bumper-to-bumper to prevent you from accessing the lane. You slow down some to let those drivers pass, but the trend continues until you run out of lane and stop. Then you wait for any kind of opening and jump in, causing all the traffic behind you to slow down somewhat and permit your entry. Now who caused the problem? I say it was the drivers in the right lane. You, as the driver in the left lane, did everything possible to preserve the flow of traffic on the right. Had even one driver just let of the accelerator for a moment to increase distance enough to allow you to ease in while at the speed of traffic flow, the entire flow would have been maintained. What do you say?
Both of these scenarios are merging issues - the same that you see on every freeway in the country every day. I could easily fabricate 100 other daily scenarios where the outcome is the same. The reason for the problem is selfishness and, in my opinion, a lack of foresight or perhaps a gross misunderstanding of what causes traffic flow delays and how to remedy it. Amazingly, I have actually had drivers behind me "signal" their disapproval of my attempts to be courteous and preserve traffic flow more often than not. Are people everywhere really this short-sighted? :sick:
Some states have a "left lane for passing" or "keep right except to pass" sign they use... Tennessee comes to mind where I've seen that or maybe Kentucky. That means the speeder uses the right lane except during the time they are passing... That's what's missing (at least in Western Ohio) with many of the left lane dominator's approach to how others should use the lanes. I've watched left lane dominators stay in the left lane and run up on those using their 3rd lane out of 3 lanes as try to dominate them over into the right hand lane or middle lane--but the speeder never changes lanes.
I always feel uncomfortable trying to change lanes and if I"m going 7-14 over, I don't feel obligated to change unless it's easy and I don't have to appreciably slow down while in the right and middle lanes.
I especially love the BMW types that would flash their brights to notify you to "get out of my way." That's no longer the case now that American brand and others have adopted the flash on the turn signal stalk to make it easy to flash in t he daytime without turning on the headlights.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Other states should adopt this and put some teeth in it. Apparently Tennessee drivers were convinced they had to get over when they reached that sign. They merged smoothly and all traffic slowed but without the stop - start that usually occurs.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
An LLC is by definition breaking the law and that is what is so aggravating. Almost every state has a "Keep right except to pass" law, which by camping in the left lane an LLC is not doing (keeping right that is).
I don't see what the confusion is? LLC=lawbreaker=ticket.
Thus, when I come up behind a LLC who is doing the limit of speed, I can't feel he is "policing" or passive agressive driving for he is just obeying the law and that's OK.
My point was the LLCer is not obeying the law they are breaking the law. The point is not about ratios is about wrongful, illegal and irritating behavior. :lemon:
..."Maybe if law enforcement would start paying more attention to these violators, and ticketing them, and the fines were high enough to detere this this kind of driving, maybe it wouldn't be such a huge problem. "
I brought this up a few months ago in this forum and was surprised to see a number of posters who believe the "bulldogger" is simply making use of an empty lane, and that for everyone to change over immediately is an inefficient waste of an open lane.
Car 1: "But officer, I wasn't LLCing, I had this jerk right on my tail and I was already going a little over the SL, trying to pass a long line of cars. Cite him!"
Car 2: "But officer, I wasn't tailgaiting, I had this jerk in front of me who simply wouldn't get out of the left lane, and I'd been behind him for miles. Cite him!"
The courts are already jammed up. They won't bother with this stuff, especially when any lawyer can argue it was the other guy's fault, not his client. Reasonable doubt and all that. Waste of time.
Bottom line is drive with courtesy. If you're blocking someone, pull to the right. If you're speeding, slow down and give the other guy a chance to pull over. Irritating an idiot or driving a few mph faster isn't worth your life.
That is a voice of reason that will quickly get lost in the angry shouts back and forth of the aggrevated drivers...
The truth is somewhere in between - if I can use a little Buddha on y'all.
The person who wishes to go fast has appointed themselves to a dominant/superior position of importance. That creates a problem for all, because dominance does not truly exist on the roads - only bravery and stupidity (typically the same act for both)
Aggressive acts of tailgating are a sign of anxiety that suggests the driver needs to relax, breath, and turn the radio station...
As for the slow mover in a left lane. If someone does come onto your bumper and tailgate - you have two choices, remain in place or move aside.
To remain in place is also an act of dominance and aggression - from our monkey-evolved minds. "I was here first and I am not in the wrong - you lose."
To step aside is and feels somewhat like an act of submission - that is where the problem stems from...but this is a mental reality, ESPECIALLY when driving. Life is filled with moments of expressing dominant and submissive signals to maintain relationships and social standing...but on the roads, these are not as embarassing as we feel them to be. It is normally a result of submission to maintain safety - and that is the route benefit of moving aside to let the aggressive monkey pass. Why elevate the situation?
Now, I get my daily dose of road rage, much like anyone...and somedays I am better at excercising restraint and maintaining my aggressions...but nothing good ever comes from escalating another driver. You never know how unstable the other person may be - perhaps ever slightly suicidal - and you being in the way is just the last straw that will break the camel's back.
My ex used to play the passive aggressive game with her car - I would give her a hard time about it...she would speed up ahead of someone who was trying to prevent her from merging and then she would slow down to force the guy to change lanes...utter crap and asking for trouble. She has managed to avoid the madman's wrath so far...but eventually she will get burned by testing the metal of another driver in the grips of a dominance struggle.
Humans are some very funny critters.
The other secret is that "stack able" LLCer's leave plenty of room to pass in the "other left lanes". There are very precious few scofflaws who actually go 15 under to the speed limit anymore. In fact. RLCers are much easier to pass than some /most LLCer's who can fancy himself a self rightous vigilante.
Exactly. That's what I do too. I seldom have a problem with LLCers, I simply go around them. Grandad in his Buick (some makes are more prone to becoming vehicular cholesterol than others...) listening to Limbaugh while hovering at the limit on the nose rarely causes more than a furrowing of the brow for me. And what can he do, speed up as I pass on the right? Sorry, you won't catch up. I once had a Suburban try that trick with me on a very deserted interstate...he ran out of steam at about 90...
It's funny how the whole LLC thing is so much less of an issue outside of NA...common courtesy...
About road rage, the people who cause it need to be held equally accountable. If you ask to get burned, and then get burned...who is really to blame? Stupid people have way too little accountability in this society.
Speeding is an offense. Driving slightly above the speed limit or more above in the left lane doesn't get an eyebrow lifted--to quote someone posting above.
I drove to Columbus, Ohio, from Dayton on I 70 at 60 mph a few months ago in early morning traffic. It was entertaining and enlightening to watch the LLDs and LLCs work it out. Semi trucks are hard to move out of the left lane!!!! grin. This is two lane interstate most of the way. So much angst and life is so short to have a heart attack over someone in the left lane...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Back to the fun topic where no one is going to change anyone else' mind, but it's interesting hearing the logic and opinions. On with the show.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Unfortunately, being selfish, obstructionistic, and having an absence of courtesy is not illegal. It's very telling that LLCs aren't such an issue in other auto-addicted societies.
It also gets tiring seeing some people so self-involved and serious that they have to whine to the hosts over a little joke...lighten up, Francis...maybe a BMW driver should complain to the hosts too...of course, it's all a one way street, isn't it....
Oh, and on that subject, I believe the Detroit Free Press did an impromptu survey a few years back about which vehicles are seen holding up the flow of traffic the most. I won't say which makess were tops...
Life truely is not about fairness... it is a concept whose purpose is simply to help children learn empathy ("how would you like it if..."). Life is about conflict and resolution. The "justice" mentality is flawed and usually escalates rather than resolves conflicts.
I was amazed at how it worked especially for the TN plated cars. Because everyone gracefully and graciously merged the traffic kept moving slowly rather than having buttins cause the car they managed to get in front of in the line coming to a complete stop which then does the slinky compression of full stops back through the waiting line.
The only ones who kept going up to the front of the line were out-of-staters from (Ohio and Michigan) who probably are LLDers anyhow.
Because the TN cars got over at the sign, I suspect the TN police had reinforced the rule of merging now not 500 feet on down the road with some police action. Or they had a really good information push to get people to realize how it could work.
Having been held back by the buttins on many trips through many states, I really appreciated the merge. It was much less stressful. I didn't have to try to run up in the closed lane and try to buttin or I didn't have to merge over like people should and watch as 50 other cars pass on the closed lane only to buttin much up ahead causing me and others to have slower progress and a much longer wait. It worked like a zipper but at the merge NOW sign.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"dominant/superior position of importance" is very descriptive of the insecure driver of little education in a small cheap vehicle trying to win the race against vehicles of successful people who have earned their superiorty in the caste system of economics.Their window sticker usually states, "No Fear", which really means "no brains".
"nothing good ever comes from escalating another driver" I agree, however that doesn't mean we shouldn't have the abilty and means to return the fire. A rifle rack in the rear window of a pickup usually sobers up the wayward instantly.
bottom line on a lot of this is that bigger is better. a lot more people are pushy with me when i'm driving my focus rather than my explorer. it's pretty much always been that way.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I forgive their stupidity and endangerment of everyone around them only from the joy I derive from not letting them in. Sure someone won't pay attention for a moment and let them in, but it won't be me. My favorite is when there are a half dozen CHP officers waiting at the end of an exit only lane to nab all those fools.
You think its my bad when I don't let you "ease in" after flying by all the little people? Well I think you should cut in front of someone else or suffer the consequenses of your inconsiderate actions. I also empathize madness at you for thinking your endangerment of everyone else around you counts as "attempts to be courteous and preserve traffic flow". But I'll forgive you and not be mad the moment I get the entertainment of seeing your face when I decline to let you in.
There is no good excuse for a driver to decline to merge into a single lane as soon as possible in situations where the need is labeled in advance. However, failure to provide merging opportunities to other drivers when traffic is bunched up due to an emergency situation is dangerous. The endangerment in that situation comes not from those attempting to merge, but those denying the access. Courteousness and preservation of traffic flow are extremely important. If you do not realize that, perhaps it is because you learned "sit" and "stay" just a little too well? :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They really do give tickets? What do they charge them with?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,