Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

tim156

I purchased one last fall through autowebaccessories.com. It was a few bucks cheaper than my dealer plus no tax.

coldcranker

28 mpg is fantastic for an AWD model. I'd check the mpg the old fashioned way over several tanks before drawing a conclusion. My FWD model gets 27 mpg on the highway regularly, but without the added drag of rear differential to eat gas.

northlakes

Though I don't expect to see an indicated 28 MPG again (have had the Freebie for almost two years and never saw 28 before), and I am not sure I believe it, mid-to-high 20 MPG is excellent for a vehicle of this size. The most recent reading must be that tailwind. :shades:

explorerx4

Doesn't colorado have some hills? it can cut down your mileage.

coldcranker

"Doesn't colorado have some hills? it can cut down your mileage."

reply: I don't go into the mountains that much. The Kansas side of Colorado (Denver and east) is very flat (just small rolling hills). When the Freestyle is taken up to the mountains, it handles the ups/downs so smoothely, it makes me wonder why conventional trannys are even used any more. My regular 27 mpg is done driving almost identical speed profiles used when the EPA rated the FWD Freestyle at "27 mpg highway".

jessealan

I have a awd 2006. With the cruise set at 60 I averaged 31.5 during a 40 mile stretch of highway. I think on the long flat stretches it really gets great mpg if one is easy on the gas pedal. I think it has something to do with the fuel feedback system.

mrfurious19

Hey all,
I was detailing my new Freestyle and noticed that the hood seems rather lightweight for it's size and has quite a bit different sound than the other body panels when you knock on it. Is the hood made of aluminum or steel or something else?

Thanks!

coldcranker

"cruise set at 60 I averaged 31.5 during a 40 mile stretch"

reply: If you read that off the digital display, then I wonder if its accurate. With a tailwind, or going downhill a little, its possible, but I'd test gas mileage the old fashioned way, by fill-up to fill-up, and even averaged over several tanks for greater accuracy. I used to have a '90 Cadillac V8 with a digital MPG readout, and with Mojave desert tailwinds blowing at 30 mph, I'd get 32 MPG at 60 mph cruising.

fordwrench

The message display is in fact very accurate. The problem comes when it is not used correctly. The readings should be reset at each fill up. It is entirely possible to achieve 31 mpg on a straight highway run, but watch what happens if you have to stop and then regain a highway speed,fuel mileage drops considerably! That is where hybrids get all their gains, by electric assist or totally on electric for acceleration & engine shut off on decel and idle. Do a simple test, hit the reset on the highway after you've gotten to cruise speed, then try the same route but hit reset on the on ramp before you get up to speed there will be a large differance in readings but both are accurate for when the readings were taken.

stevedebi

"With the cruise set at 60 I averaged 31.5 during a 40 mile stretch of highway."

Oh, sure, but who can keep their FS that slow on the freeway? Here in LA, we tend to run 70-75.

I noticed this past weekend that at 65 the RPMs really drop. So I'm not surprised at 30+ , if you are willing to go slower.

northlakes

Just to comment that the 28.3 mpg I noted earlier was done with the cruise set at 65 to 70. In the midwest, it is possible to do it without being overrun by six lanes of traffic. :shades:

barnstormer64

Funny, but on my recent visit to LA, I averaged only about 5 mph on the freeways. :surprise:

stevedebi

"Funny, but on my recent visit to LA, I averaged only about 5 mph on the freeways."

Yeah, well, that's the other side of LA freeways. I generally travel them on off hours. All or nothing, I suppose. :P

coldcranker

Thats probably right about the digital readout accuracy, because instantaneous gas mileage = speed divided by fuel flow rate. Speed is known to the engine computer OK. Fuel flow rate must be inferred from fuel injector duty cycle commanded, and that is likely very accurate unless your fuel injector spray nozzles have a little varnish muck on them, which is not usually a problem. As a Ford tech, do you know a way to check fuel flow rate at a known engine load and RPM to find out if something is dragging in the engine or tranny?? Some people are getting about 20% less MPG than normally expected, not accounted for by driving style. Some people have said they can cruise steady at 65 on mostly flat ground on a trip and only manage 22 mpg, which is low for most Freestyles, including my own (I get 27 under those conditions). But of course, tracking down something internal which is dragging a bit would be next to impossible.

fordwrench

There is a way to check flow rate. Scan tools show injector flow rate by how long their open in milliseconds. A bit of research has to be done though by comparing a number of cars at certain speeds and loads. Build tolerances are actually quite close car to car but there can be some "stacking" of those tolerances to account for some thirsty cars. I believe the problem stems from driving habits, some people have feet that are constantly moving & they don't even know it. My wife used to make a car surge at cruise about 2 mph, on the gas, off the gas, until I pointed it out to her, it was driving me nuts! The other issue is engine calibration, what level is the PCM at. The latest update will most likely give you the best fuel mileage. Back to fuel mileage all over the place, I'll bet the cars getting low mileage are standing still idling maybe with the a/c on more than the people are willing to admit or they have a remote start & wait 5 minutes until they go out to their cars. Every time the gas prices go up we at the dealer get swamped with " poor mileage" concerns and they almost always turn out to be no problem found.

coldcranker

Thanks. The fuel flow rate is assumed from the commanded fuel injector duty cycle percent open or milliseconds open, assuming standard fuel pressure. I guess one sure way to see if a Freestyle is thirsty is to drive down the same road, hot engine, and record the milliseconds open on the injectors with another Freestyle doing the same thing. If one has 13 milliseconds and the other has 15 milliseconds, the 15 one is suspicious. Also, I appreciate the way you noted the possible stacked tolerances issue. Maybe with break-in any internal rubbing might get ground down a little until the fit is better. Is there any possibility the CVT belt may be too tight? Tough questions to be sure, as it may take a tranny manufacturer engineer to know if there is a weakness there.

coldcranker

I get such great gas mileage with an old software load (never re-flashed) from about April, 2005, I'm not sure a new re-flash could make it better. It was my understanding that the newer software takes care of CVT RPM oscillations mostly. I wonder if Ford did tweak the engine map, as my Freestyle already gets 27 mpg in 80% highway driving with old software. (Still, one day I may ask for a re-flash.)

fordwrench

The injector flow rate is dead on, remember this is a feedback system, the oxygen sensor "checks" for correct air/fuel ratio. It doesn't matter if an injector is spraying a little off due to varnish buildup, which by the way doesn't happen until about 60k miles, the PCM will adjust injector on time to compensate. A tight belt is impossible to have, the belt is set into two adjusting pulleys that ramp up and down the pulley groove in order to change ratios. By the way the belt is a chain and is not driven in the conventional way, on the links, but on the very outside of the chain on lugs that stick out from the side edges. It is a very slick design and very robust parts are used throughout, to me over engineered like the good old days!

fordwrench

The mirror can be swapped for the sunglass holder. The problem is the entire overhead console has to be ordered, the parts are not available separately, another bright idea from Ford. I'd check ebay or scrap yards maybe you'd get lucky.

elibruno

antenna is outside and i have a wired modulator from Best Buy. Nothing could be better!

jessealan

My dealer, salesman said my freestyle can run on e85. Yet I see nothing in the manual about this. Any thoughts.

dougmalissa

Call Ford directly. My salesman told me to not run e85 in my freestyle. My fuel cap came with the BP logo on it, but that is just an ad for BP. It does NOT mean you can use e85. Let us know what Ford says if you call.

stevedebi

The FS got good ratings

Now I know what it is - an SUV! :P

"The 2007 Ford Freestyle and Toyota FJ Cruiser, two midsize sport-utility vehicles, earned top “good” ratings in front- and side-impact crash tests conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, The Associated Press reported."

mrdinmn

No, don't do it. The FS is not a flex-fuel vehicle - requires programming, alchol-resistant fuel parts, etc.

coldcranker

fordwrench,
Remember that the commanded fuel flow rate is the injector millisecond command. The lambda (air-fuel ratio) feedback then adjusts the commanded fuel flow until the lambda is correct. The readout you see of the commanded fuel flow rate, say, "15 milliseconds", for example, corresponds to a certain flow rate, assuming the injectors are clean. The feedback system will keep adjusting the commanded fuel flow rate as necessary, so a thirsty Freestyle will indeed show more milliseconds because the engine must burn more fuel to overcome something dragging. If an injector were dirty, then it would take more milliseconds to get the needed flow rate, although an air-fuel reading is only taken on one bank of cylinders. Sorry for the long reply, but I'm a Control Systems engineer (2 degrees in that). Engineering I understand, but there's a lot I don't know, especially in criminal law, as I just lost a Disorderly Conduct charge in Fed Court on Monday trying to represent myself (I'm innocent) because they suppressed evidence as inadmissable. I digress, but I drove to Yellowstone in my Freestyle to go to court, and got 27 mpg over 1400 miles of driving, so maybe its all relevant.

fordwrench

I agree, if there's an extra load on the vehicle there will be longer injector pulse width. My point was one car can't run richer than another without other symptoms like a check engine light on or poor driveablility. The engine is monitored by an O2 sensor in each bank and a catilist monitor for each bank that is also used to adjust fuel rate if the front O2s fail. My real point is 99% of poor mileage concerns are because of driving habits. There are too many sensors on these vehicles to have the drivrtrain to be the sole cause.

passat_2002

"99% of poor mileage concerns are because of driving habits."

Precisely. And thank you for saying so.

coldcranker

The sensors only keep emissions and air-fuel ratio under control, and can't do anything to prevent excessive internal friction from spoiling MPG. Stacked tolerances? Driving style could be the cause of bad MPG. Many people getting the bad MPG indicate they're doing nothing unusual, however. If you take 20 Freestyles down the road at the same time single file with flight recorders reading the engine computer fuel injector milliseconds-open command (aka, duty cycle), it wouldn't surprise me to see one about 20% too high (thirsty), while all 20 would have good emmission levels.

northlakes

Hmmm... 20 Freestyles - single file - that would be a beautiful sight. :shades:

fordwrench

Nope, "excessive internal friction" would mean HEAT & something would fail. There would be a slow crank when starting and possibly no roll away at idle with foot off brake. Now, low tire pressure a dragging brake or something strapped to the roof, that will drag down fuel econ. The problem with the rear brakes that are across this forum is this, the original rear pads would transfer materal to the rotor & cause a pulsation if they sat too long. The replacement pads would swell when wet & drag & wear out fast. The latest level pad fixes both problems but adds brake dust as a new problem. A vehicle this size with a 3 litre engine will only get so much fuel mileage, 17 at the low end is perfectly acceptable.

tidester

99% of poor mileage concerns are because of driving habits.

I'll agree with that if you consider "driving habits" to include properly inflated tires, well-tuned engines and use of quality gasoline and oil.

tidester, host

sramos01

We purchased a 2005 Freestyle a little over 6 months ago. A 2005 with 12 miles. I was happy with the car until last Monday. I was at a dead stop at a red light and was rear ended by an older Mitsubishi Galant (a lot smaller than my car). My car moved about 20 feet (mind you my foot was on the brake as I was at a dead stop). The damage to my car is unbelievable. The entire spare tire well is pushed in (the entire back floor needs to be replaced), the gas tank is also pushed in, the steering wheel did a 90 degree turn (they say it is not the alignment on the car that one of the rods is bent), the back bumper is torn apart, and lastly the muffler needs to be replaced as it is also bent.
I am very dissappointed at how my car is so damaged! Especially since it is suppose to have a high crash rating. :mad:

lateralg

The crash rating is intended to rate the vehicle's protection of the occupants. This is accomplished partly thru "crumple zones" ... sheet metal designed to crumple & absorb energy rather than transfer it to the occupants.

Had the rear of your vehicle been rigid enough to avoid significant damage, you would have been subjected to very severe forces. You apparently weren't since I saw no mention of injury.

volfangary

Sorry to hear about the accident. Glad you are all right! Could you post some pictures?

sramos01

Most of the injury is just back injury --- the impact of the hit jolted my car forward and I did have my seatbelt on and still jolted me and the aribag came out. I did not expect the car to move or jolt as much as it did.

sramos01

Will post pics in the next day or two.

bobw3

Most people at red light only lightly hold their foot on the brake, so you probably weren't pushing very hard in the first place. And I agree about the crumple zones. The safer cars are designed this way. Plus the head restraint design is one of the best in the Freestyle. Even though the car that hit you was smaller, you didn't mention the speed it was going? Plus the front end with the engine has a lot more weight/mass than the rear of the Freestyle.

explorerx4

i wonder why the airbag deployed? no impact to the front. was it a side airbag?

freealfas

"...I am very dissappointed at how my car is so damaged! Especially since it is suppose to have a high crash rating."

This could be one of the most ridiculous things seen on a post. For that much damage to happen I suspect the Mitsu was going at a faster clip then you surmise. What injuries you finally mention seem minor at best, fortunately for you.

They have yet to design cars that can be hit severly and bounce back with no sign/clue of any damage. If I were you I would be VERY happy with the work Ford and Volvo did in the design of the Freestyle that allowed you to be typing this message at all. If you didn't have the ability to type after this event then upon recovery you might be justified in being "disappointed".

coldcranker

"...I did not expect the car to move or jolt as much as it did. "

I know a Galant is not a huge car (3,000 lbs), so he must have been going fast to move a Freestyle (4,000 lbs) that much. Momentum = Mass x Velocity.

tidester

Momentum = Mass x Velocity

Yes, but ...

My car moved about 20 feet

so without a Δt you can't say what the velocity was.

tidester, host

freealfas

bottom line - regardless of the physics equation the FS in question did its job with no reason to be "disappointed"... it was sacrificed for sramos01 to complain another day...just think if he had not traded up from that pinto he was driving all these years...

tidester

it was sacrificed for sramos01

Yes, and a little enlightenment is also be a good thing so I'm sure he appreciates your efforts.

tidester, host

tom_holsinger

explorerx4,

It sounds as though a significant amount of kinetic energy was transferred to the Freestyle. This makes the damage and deployment of the driver's airbag understandable.

explorerx4

i thought the front airbags would only deploy in a frontal impact. if hit from behind, the passenger's momentum is toward the back of the vehicle, not the front.
i'll remain skeptical, until pictures are posted.

passat_2002

Cars that are rear-ended are frequently pushed into other cars or objects. This could account for front air-bag deployment. The crashee has not yet stated exactly what air-bag(s) actually deployed.

mikemcm

I just had my cd player replaced because of the cd-r skipping problem. The skipping problem is gone....BUT so is my digital clock. There is no "set clock" option in the menu as per the owners manual. No clock is even visible. Do any of you have any idea how to find then set the clock ??
BTW....I love my Freestyle!!

fordwrench

The dealer will have to program the new radio. They will need what's called as built data and download it to the radio with their diagnostic tester. I will bet the illumination isn't working on the radio as well.

mikemcm

Actually they did download from the old unit and the illumination is working fine. That was the first thing I checked before I left the dealership. :confuse: :confuse:

jschreiber

Mileage issues--well I had an interesting discovery about mileage and I think it might be relevant to some of the complaints on this site:
My freestyle has 29,000 miles (never a problem been great) and usually gets around 24mpg in mixed driving--lately I've been getting 20mpg despite using a dose of fuel injector cleaner. Knowing that Minnesota is dumping 15% ethanol into all our gas here (not a bad thing just a fact that it gets poorer mileage), I filled last week with ethanol free hi test at a shell station. Lo and behold back up to 25 mpg in mixed driving. Noticeable difference. So check the gas that you are filling up with. I will go back to the 15% ethanol 87 regular because it is the right thing to do but its nice to know it IS NOT the car.