Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

coldcranker

Yes, you can usually take the percent ethanol (10% around Colorado), divide by 4, and thats the percent reduction in MPG you suffer. That E85 we hear about, which is 85% ethanol, reduces MPG by around 20% or so. Its just that ethanol has fewer calories per gallon than gasoline.

dzdncnfzd

What did the dealership do for you? I have about 9K miles on my Freestyle and I have noticed significantly more brake dust on the rear wheels as compared to the fronts since I first bought it last October. I have also noticed that the rear rotors look very worn with lots of grooves in them like an LP while the front rotors are still like glass. The rear pads look like they still have some life in them. The car still stops fine no squealing/grinding noises but it just seems to me they are wearing too fast for 9K miles. I rarely use the parking break so and I'm quite confident I never left it partially engaged.

I have hesitated to bring the car to the dealership because I am afraid they are just going to say it is a wear item and not covered. I don't want to waste my time going there if they aren't going to do anything.

blue05

I was told that Ford is using a low metallic brake pad (softer pad) which means more wear and dust . The dealer also stated Ford is aware of the problem, and will have a new pad out in 2007 . He also, said my brakes were covered for 12 month or 18,000 miles. Does the Freestyle have electronic brake force distribution , if so this would explain the dust and wear problems . The braking bias is electronically controlled more to the rear .

dzdncnfzd

Your response brings up several questions.

1. Although a softer pad would explain faster wear on the pad and more break dust it doesn't explain why the rotor appears to be wearing so fast.

2. If the braking bias is more to the rear brakes why are the rotors about 1/2 the size and the pads about 1/3 the size as the fronts. If the rears are going to do more of the breaking they should be larger.

dougmalissa

So how fast was the Mitsu going when it hit you?

Also, the car did it's job and kept you safe. No complaints there. :sick:

blue05

1.The specs I found for the front rotors are 12.4 inches in diameter and 1.1 inches thick vs,the rears 13 inches and 0.43 inch thickness. You may in fact think your rear rotors are wearing thin when you started out with less than a 1/2 inch thickness.

2. No, if you notice the front rotors are ventilated to allow cooling from the friction generated from the larger pads. The rears are solid disc and would not be able to rid the heat as fast, therefore resulting in warping of the rotors.

coldcranker

Remember the rear tires lose grip and start to lock-up quickly when braking hard, so there is only so much serious braking the rears can do. Therefore, the rear rotors don't need to be big. If they were bigger, less caliper force would be needed and they would be too sensitive.

dgulino

So check the gas that you are filling up with. I will go back to the 15% ethanol 87 regular because it is the right thing to do but its nice to know it IS NOT the car.

I question this logic! This is a trap that so many people fall into. Just because something is claimed to be better for the environment doesn't automatically make it so! If the 15% ethanol fuel has fewer emissions per gallon burned BUT you have to burn more gallons of it to go the same distance because the mileage is poorer, you might very well be emitting the same amount of pollutants either way. And paying MORE for the ethanol fuel to boot!

Remember, there is a HUGE ethanol lobby in this country, and without significant government subsidies, ethanol could not survive in the automotive fuel marketplace. The industry lobbies state governments to require oxygenated fuels and fuel additives to create a market for ethanol.

Yes, ethanol is cleaner burning than gasoline because the molecule contains oxygen whereas the isooctane molecule does not. But, the energy density of gasoline is just a little less than twice that of ethanol, so, if you were to run your car on pure ethanol, you'd have to burn about twice as much to go the same distance on a given amount of gasoline.

bruneau1

At this time, ethanol does not offer significant advantages and some big disadvantages. However, the U.S. needs to get going on its technology to produce it more cheaply, use other sources besides more expensive corn, and come up with a workable distribution method. Gas prices are down, but this will not last. It will take some time to do this. Brazil started their program 30 years ago, and they are nearly fuel independent. So ethanol give fewer miles per gallon. It produces far fewer emissions, may provide a slight improvement in acceleration. And fewer miles per gallon is better than no fuel at all. We have millions of acres that could be devoted to growing the products to makes ethanol. We need to look down the road a few decades and not just to next week which is the usual American vision.

stever

I thought Brazil's number was that 30% of their auto fuel comes from ethanol. Someone probably has some good links over in the The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol discussion. Or try the Will ethanol E85 catch on in the US? Will we Live Green and Go Yellow? board. Or the Is Ethanol good for the environment? one.

Makes you wonder if a flex-fuel Freestyle is in our future (try saying that three times fast...).

blue05

This would be true if you didn't have (ebd) electronic brake force distribution which continually optimizes the balance between the front and rear, also you have ABS to back up ebd . A larger rotors dissipates heat better and thus lessen fade and glazing of pads or rotors . When panic braking or hard stops are involved the bias will change according to conditions .The system (ebd) also accounts for varying loads (ex. people or cargo) .

coldcranker

Physics dictate what ultimate braking force you can apply to the rear short of wheel lock-up, so all the EBD in the world won't cancel those physics, a vehicle that is front-heavy applying a diving torque about the c.g. The main thing EBD does is to apply more rear braking when there's a load in the back, which is impressive. Bigger rotors would just be a waste of mass. Ford engineers did the right thing.

blue05

There's no driving aids that will over come the laws of physics . The point is that ABS, EBD, and ESC are driving aids that inspire confidents when driving . If you notice the front rotors are vented and the rears aren't, so if you increase the surface area you can reduce excessive heat build up . When you have uncontrolled heat build up other parts could fail,in an effort to reduce the heat rear rotors are larger than front and all 4 calipers are aluminum . If your vehicle is AWD this is beneficial to the traction control . I do agree with you that Volvo and Ford did a excellent job with the final product .

passat_2002

Ford car sales were up 26% in September, and truck sales were only down 5%, but Freestyle sales were down 46.8% year over year. Granted.. the Freestyle sales #s benefited from employee pricing a year ago. But one has to wonder what will happen to Freestyle sales once the Edge starts hitting the lots next month. The re-styled re-engined Freebie cannot come soon enough.

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=24421&make_id=trust

bobw3

The Taurus was up 64% so go figure. I've never been in the market for a Taurus, so I don't why those sales are up so much with the Accord and Camry as competition.

stevedebi

"The Taurus was up 64% so go figure. I've never been in the market for a Taurus, so I don't why those sales are up so much with the Accord and Camry as competition."

I didn't know the Taurus was still being produced. I didn't see it in the Ford showrooms...

passat_2002

You'll see few if any Taurus's on dealer lots anymore. It's mainly a fleet sales vehicle to car rental agencies and such. It will be discontinued altogether next year.

coldcranker

OK, the world is officially nuts. The Freestar has sold about the same numbers as the Freestyle so far this year.

tom_holsinger

The ad about divorced parents might have something to do with the decline in Freestyle sales.

passat_2002

It didn't help. Certainly a "Bold Move" in the wrong direction. Slate wrote an entire piece on the ad.

"The Divorcemobile"
http://www.slate.com/id/2148392/

barnstormer64

All I gotta say is that if a "divorce" ad makes people NOT want to buy the vehicle, then people are dumber than I ever thought possible.

bobw3

I think they should fire anyone involved in Freestyle ads. To me it seems so easy to advertise the Freestyle, You could show 7 people climing inside and then show inside full of space. Load some stuff behind the 3rd row. Maybe show some minor off-road/poor road driving to emphasize the AWD. Show the trip computer getting 26mpg on a highway trip. Flash up some stuff about the saftey ratings. And finish up with something about how it handles like a car, has the space of a minivan, and the off-road capability of an SUV.

In a real-life ad, I parked my Freestyle nose-to-nose with an identical one. As we were strapping in our baby, along came a group of people and the all got into the Freestyle and drove away. There were at least 7 that climbed into the car, but they were mostly teens. Anyway, that was real-life ad!

passat_2002

"I think they should fire anyone involved in Freestyle ads."

In my humble opinion, firing them wouldn't be sufficient punishment.

To Ford's credit, they have publicly acknowledged how badly they bungled the Freestyle's introduction. Quite honestly, I don't think anyone in the marketing department knew just exactly where the Freestyle was supposed to fit in. (The words "Crossover" and "CVT" looked like greek to them.) But now that they're so close to the intro of the all-important Edge, don't look for too many ad dollars to be spent on the Freebie. By shortly after Thanksgiving, it's going to be an Edge world.

freealfas

" By shortly after Thanksgiving, it's going to be an Edge world."

Only 2 rows of seating folks...not a competitor if you need 3 row capability. I keep hearing edge this and edge that, it only seats 5 and is a CUV yes, but one with less capability than the FS in terms of space & seating.

passat_2002

I meant advertising dollar-wise it will be an Edge world. The sentence you quoted out of context was meant to refer back to the previous sentence.

bruneau1

We like our FWD very much, but expect Freestyle sales to go into the dump when the Edge, along with CX-7 and 9, are on the same lots. Some people do use the 3rd row, but around here, and I have seen lots of Freestyles, nobody seems to use the 3rd row. Furthermore, the 3.0 is inadequate for carrying seven passengers and luggage, especially up long grades. The CVT will disappear, so that is another point against current purchases. Had I known what Ford intends to do. i am not sure I would have bought the Freestyle. In the meantime, we enjoy ours and hope the CVT doesn't need work when nobody knows how to work on them and parts are scarce.

northlakes

The amount of discussion about the Freestyle tells me it has a good future. The first 9 months of 2006 Freestyle sales is down 17% over the first 9 months of 2006 - but that is measured right after summer incentives ended. Don't forget that the Ford F-150 sales were down 11% over the same period, and Ford puts an order of magnitude more advertising dollars into that platform.

The ability to carry 6 people was a selling point for me, but even more so was the cargo carrying ability of the Freestyle. The Edge will find a niche. It is more similar to the Lexus RX-330 than a Freestyle, and will be priced as a luxury vehicle accordingly. There is also a Lincoln badged version of the Edge ready to go for the Escalade market.

There should be a lot of ad dollars floating around Ford now that they will be promoting the F-150 and Explorer less. If even a fraction of that is left for the Freestyle, it will be an improvement over the amount of advertising in the past for the Freebie. Do not be surprised if Ford releases another couple of cross-overs to fill the void left by the trucks of the family.

The CVT and 3.0 liter engine work well together in the Freestyle. Anyone who buys a hybrid will have some flavor of CVT to deal with. They will also have tradeoffs in towing and hauling. Is the Edge chassis as stiff, or the crash results as good as the Freestyle? Don't know. I will keep my Freestyle, but the Edge should grow Ford's overall sales.

:shades:

passat_2002

"...the Edge should grow Ford's overall sales."

Indeed it will. The Edge should rapidly go mainstream, while I think the Freestyle will remain sort of a niche vehicle. (A very good niche vehicle.)

I suspect Ford dealers will be getting some interesting trade-in's on their Edge sales. If it's going to be the "conquest" vehicle that they hope for, there will likely be a fair number of RX 330's and (butt-ugly) Murano's on their used car lots.

bobw3

Edge too small, Explorer too SUVish, Freestar too minivanish, Freestye just right. The same with what the other manufactures produce.

passat_2002

Edge too small? It's quite a bit bigger than the Escape.. and Escape sales this year have been more than double Freestyle sales in spite of it's dated looks.

Explorer too SUVish? The Freestyle looks so similar to an Explorer that most people cannot tell the difference between them.

The Edge hits a sweetspot in size. Best of all to most.. it won't look anything like an SUV.

northlakes

Perhaps Ford will even take Pontiac Azteks in trade for an Edge. :shades:

bobw3

Edge too small? It's quite a bit bigger than the Escape.. and Escape sales this year have been more than double Freestyle sales in spite of it's dated looks. (But I need the 3rd row...that's why it's too small)

Explorer too SUVish? The Freestyle looks so similar to an Explorer that most people cannot tell the difference between them. (I'm not most people :P

The Edge hits a sweetspot in size. Best of all to most.. it won't look anything like an SUV.

pnewby

FYI- I bought a 2005 Freestyle AWD in Nov. '04 and an '06 Explorer 4x4 in Oct. '06. Love them both, and they really are different vehicles, inside and out.

passat_2002

Yes, you're right. They really are different vehicles. I'm not saying otherwise. But Ford clearly tried to make the Freestyle look as much as possible like an Explorer. They succeeded so well that unless the two are parked side by side, most cannot tell the difference. This didn't exactly help Freestyle sales any. To add insult to injury, they gave it a name that sounds like Freestar. Good Grief! What were they thinking! Looks like Explorer.. sounds like Freestar. Talk about an identity crisis! Could they have done a better job of confusing the public? Well actually they did. They decided not to advertise it, apparently so it wouldn't steal sales away from... (guess what!) the Explorer. Brilliant!

In any case, they have apparently learned their lesson and won't be repeating any of this nonsense with the Edge. Nobody will ever mistake it (or it's name) for anything else in the Ford lineup.

BTW, I really like my Freestyle too. My criticism is directed at Ford's decisions on how to style and market the vehicle, not the vehicle itself. Hopefully, those responsible for this textbook case in how not to market a new vehicle, have already gone against the wall.

dougmalissa

But thankfully it does NOT have the 6 speed transmission! There have been issues with that.

bobw3

I were in the market for something like an Edge, I'd buy the Honda CR-V. The CR-V is 10" shorter, but has more 2nd row legroom and more cargo space behind the 2nd row, plus all of the safety features are standard. Why would I spend the same $$$$ on a Ford Edge when I can buy the Honda CR-V?

I think that's the problem with Ford in general, if you can get the same (or better in the case of the CR-V vs Edge comparison) thing in a Ford or Honda, why buy Ford when you have the added quality of Honda. I own a Ford Freestyle because I couldn't find a Honda or Toyota to match what the Freestyle offered at the same price. But the quality level of just the interior of the new Honda's is so much more superior than the American cars. From the Fit, Civic, Accord, to the CR-V. So to compete, Ford must come up with something different...either more space, a lot cheaper price, or something...not just styling because that will only go so far. Ford is already losing out on safety with Honda putting in every safety feature as standard.

passat_2002

Dude. Your opinions on Honda belong in a Honda forum. The cool-aid drinkers are all hanging out over there and will no doubt welcome your viewpoint.

I can't let your safety comments go unanswered. You would be hard pressed to find a vehicle anywhere in the Honda world that would keep you and your family as safe as your Freestyle does.

bobw3

I was just making a comment that I bought the Ford Freestyle because it had something for me that neither Toyota nor Honda offered, but that I don't see anything unique offered by the Edge. I would hope that these discussions can be more than one-sided "My car is better..." statements. What's the point of discussing a vehicle if you can't makes comparisons with other vehicles?

dougmalissa

No. This is what your comment was.......

I own a Ford Freestyle because I couldn't find a Honda or Toyota to match what the Freestyle offered at the same price.

coldcranker

There are strong and weak points about every vehicle. The nice freedom we have is weighing the pros/cons for each choice and going with it. My choice was the Freestyle because I liked the Volvo-derived chassis, safety rating, size, economy, and CVT, and am very happy with my choice of FWD SE (2005) side curtain bags. Are there better cars out there, to one extent or another? Yes. Is Freestyle a great balance of features and capabilities for my needs? Yes. I might have been happy with a Honda Pilot, but it was more expensive. The Freestyle is an American winner. After all, its made by mostly rude Americans in Chicago (OK, ever met anybody from Chicago?.. they are largely rude slobs, but they are Americans, at least, and Ford is mostly American, too.)

tidester

OK, ever met anybody from Chicago?

As a matter of fact, yes, I have and most of them are the nicest people you could know. Let's avoid the incendiary and uninformed generalizations. Staying on topic is far more preferable.

tidester, host

volfangary

Anyone hear anything about a recall on the Freestyle yesterday? I turned on the news and caught the tail end of a story about Ford recalls. I thought they said Freestyle. :confuse:

kpevav

I just purchased a 2006 FWD Freestyle SE with 17,989 miles on it. It was put into service on September 8, 2005.

The dealer (Lincoln-Mercury) is replacing the rear brakes (including rotors and I was told, calipers) with the Ford replacement parts. I'm hopeful about this replacement, since from what I have read on these forums, the new parts should wear better than the old ones. Is that correct?

Delivery is scheduled for today, delayed from Monday while they located the brake parts. Apparently, the calipers are in short supply.

bobw3

Yes, I know what I said. If I could have bought a Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander for $25K, which was my total price for my Freestyle, then I would have considered them, although they still didn't match what the Freestyle had to offer.

When buying a car, I look at meeting my needs first, then quality, then price. If two vehicles meet my functional needs (1), then I look at the quality (2), and then price (3). The Freestyle met my needs and was the lower cost, so I went with it. The Pilot & Highlander had the higher quality, but lost out on the functionality and price. My point is that with the Edge, there isn't anything functional about the Edge that surpasses, for example, the Honda CR-V. So in my books, the CR-V wins on 1) functionality, 2) quality, and on the actual street 3) price, it probably won't be that more expensive than an Edge.

PS...cosmetics, style and exterior looks are way down on my list.

passat_2002

Freestar & 500. Not Freestyle.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?storyID=2006-10-10T195149Z_01_N10- 366806_RTRUKOC_0_US-AUTOS-FORD-RECALL.xml

dougmalissa

Check this link out. It is to an article on CNN.com

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/10/10/bc.autos.ford.recall.reut/index.html

passat_2002

If your Freestyle is a 2006 model it would have already had the "new" brake pads that Ford switched to in around February 2005. Mine was an April '05 build and had the new pads from day one. You might notice a lot of brake dust on the rear wheels for about the first 5000 miles or so. It's normal. How very nice of your Lincoln-Mercury dealer to do this as part of your purchase.

tom_holsinger

Bob is right. Honda interiors are far superior to Fords.

I bought a Freestyle because it gave me the cargo space I needed as a college hauler, had superior milage for its class and was considerably cheaper than the competiton. The competition would have cost more money for less cargo capacity, and more round trips to and from college, at greater expense.

My only regret about buying a Freestyle is that the resale value in 6-7 years will be lower than expected as I think Ford will cancel the Freestyle (along with many others) due to downsizing.

This regret will vanish in the event of a serious accident. There are few vehicles safer than a Freestyle.

passat_2002

Either liking or disliking a vehicles interior is a very subjective thing. When you say that one is better than another, it's like saying "I like green better than blue". That doesn't make green a better color.

Will Ford cancel the Freestyle? I don't see why they should. It's the only 6-7 passenger crossover they have... and nobody's exactly getting out of the crossover business these days. Most are rushing to get into it. The coming Edge will probably cut into some Freestyle sales. But if Ford simply updates the Freestyle's styling and puts the 3.5L in it, I think it will hold it's own for some time to come. Heck.. you never know, they might even decide to advertise it.

kpevav

They delivered it yesterday and detailed it really well. There was only one thing: a distortion that I noticed in test driving was still there when the salesman went to fill up the tank. He came back and consulted with service and realized it was not grease but rather the windshield itself. So, they have ordered a new windshield (warranty item) from Ford and put it into writing as a promise to me.

I came from a car with leather seats, message center, traction control, and many other items, but don't mind this SE without those items. This model does have rear AC and dual automatic climate controls, which are a necessity for Florida. Only one thing that I would like to upgrade and that is the radio or the speakers. Would new speakers improve the sound considerably or do I need to invest in a whole new system? This is the SE model radio.