Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

newdriver2

Do you think 5.1" is a little too low for a crossover SUV? Even the Pacific have 5.9". Why Ford will build a SUV which have a lower ground clearence than the Focus

ranger

It is low and who knows what lurks in the mind's of the Ford engineers.

On another note, I was searching local auto dealers for any specials and Van Boxtel Ford in Green Bay has several Freebies listed on their web site. This is the first car dealer web site I've seen any Freebie listings on. Check out http://application.vanboxtel.com/browse.php?d=28&type=1&m- odel=freestyle

starlightmica

Given how many US market SUV's go off road, 5" is more than sufficient. Probably cheaper, lighter, and easier to engineer for a lower ground clearance, not to mention lower center of gravity.

BTW, Volvo XC90 built on a similar platform has about 9" clearance.

Where's the electronic stability control!?! What lurks in the minds of Ford marketers?

figueroafamily

Gang (means EVERYONE):

I do recommend that you come to your dealers armed with Edmunds' advise. Read the confessions article, and recall your buying experiences. I bet you'll have a very reinforced mindset to negotiate to YOUR terms.

* I recall an car purchase where the price was right for the car, but the trade-in wasn't great. I saw my car at their used car lot for TWICE their trade-in!.
* I'm paying for a vehicle I should had bought cheaper. That translates into a YEAR of extra payments. "Rather go to" Freebie payments.

Yes, I'm VERY opinionated on the subject. You have to beat the salesman at ALL four squares. (Don't know what's that? Read the article!)

Come prepared, come aware. Leave with vehicle, leave with wallet (or purse .

Sam

figueroafamily

ANT14:

You're not authorized to die. We need your insights for getting our Freestyles!

*****
Important note: All your inheritors & inheritor-ettes (as applicable) want you around a lot longer than that!
(Any grand-inheritors, if available, would join the chorus.
*****

Questions for your capable sources:
* Are the reviews like Edmunds' "first drive" stirring Ford to expedite the Duratec 35 into the Freebie/500/Monty line? Doubt it, but doesn't hurt to ask.
(I recall the "Aviator dibs the 35" plan FORD had.)
* Any specs on the 35? You know, horse & torque (nice rhyme, heh , etc.

Gang:

In other news, I got word about my paycheck bonus will come in at least four weeks. Four weeks in "Government time". That may push Freebie's purchase to December. All this while Contour stalled on my wife twice today. I plan to get it to the mechanic ASAP.

Sam

ANT14

" * Are the reviews like Edmunds' "first drive" stirring Ford to expedite the Duratec 35 into the Freebie/500/Monty line? Doubt it, but doesn't hurt to ask."

Nope, the situation is more about factory and change over.

"* Any specs on the 35? You know, horse & torque (nice rhyme, heh , etc."

That's still being worked out and depending upon the application, it can be tuned differently. Sort of like Nissan's 3.5L, which runs from 235HP to 287HP if need be depending upon the vehicle.

fsmmcsi

If you need a car right now, why not find a good used vehicle? You would probably be much happier with a smaller or no payment. I know this flys in the face of current American practice (debt up to the eyeballs). Besides reading car buying advice on Edmunds, I suggest reading the excellent "Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley and Danko. It is a fun book to read and is full of useful information.

stever

Here's the link:

Confessions of a Car Salesman

And check out the recent chat transcript with the Confessions author.

Steve, Host

nancyb

I read "Millionnaire Next Door". The advice in the book is to drive a slightly older car and save all the depreciation. That's how your neighbor got to be a millionnaire. It's good advice, but we're still getting a new Freestyle -- and I'm about 2 years away from retirement. With interest rates as low as they are, at least we don't get killed with high interest payments.
    I say, "Go for it!!!!"

figueroafamily

I bought our current vehicles as "one year old" purchases. That increases warranty coverage & reduces depreciation. It's my preferred style.

Freestyle obviously doesn't fit that mold. I'll study possible discounts, Edmunds pricing, etc. This will be in the balance with used vehicles. I'm checking used Contours, Escapes, and others that could do the job.

I believe this lets me keep an open mind.

Sam

fsmmcsi

The chat transcript linked above by Steve (Host) mentioned getting good deals at the end of the model year. It is excellent advice. You can even get good deals beyond the end of the model year. In April of 2003 we bought a new 2002 Mercedes-Benz C230 Coupe for about $1,900 below invoice.

fsmmcsi

Nancyb - I think you shortchanged the book. Even on cars, it has far more to say, and it really is a fun book to read.

I was reminded of another buying strategy used by a millionaire real estate guy we have done business with (Marshall Reddick) while looking at the value of my '02 Mountaineer. He owns several Chryler minivans, and typically buys used ones with 30,000 or so miles, then sells them at 80,000 or so miles. His cost per mile is very very low, as the vehicles are on a depreciation plateau.

In the case of my Mountaineer with 74,000 miles, Edmunds says it is worth $15,000 now, and will still be worth $15,000 with 100,000 miles. Since I drive 25,000 to 30,000 miles per year, I may just keep it one more year and replace it with an '06 vehicle, an '05 still on the lot, or better yet, a low mileage '05 vehicle. Driving so much makes me want something quieter and smoother NOW, but driving one more year for $0 is difficult to pass up.

nancyb

I didn't mean to shortchange the book at all, I actually learned a lot from it. Your points are very well taken about getting that extra year out of an existing vehicle.
   For me (and possibly for "Sam" as well), though, the Freestyle is the first vehicle I've seen that meets all my needs for the kind of travelling we will be doing, the low easy entry for my hubby (who is disabled), etc. It will probably be the last "new" car that we buy. I'll drive my Acura sedan until the wheels fall off.
   Anyway, I agree 100% with you, but am making an exception for the Freestyle. That is, unless we hate it when we drive one for the first time at the dealership!!!

kcan

It looks like Motorweek is going to feature the Freestyle on October 24th.
http://www.ket.org/cgi-plex/schedule/series.pl?id=MOTK&layout- =popup

A short review:
http://www.fyilondon.com/perl-bin/niveau2.cgi?s=wheels&p=8821- 0.html&a=1

kcan

A review of the Fivehundred with quite a few references to the Freestyle.
Some nice pictures as well!
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/FordFiveHundred/

Car and Driver:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article- _id=8523&page_number=1

odie6l

Car & Driver did a nice write-up on the F-Style. My wife has narrowed my shopping list to 3 vehicles - F-Style, Pilot, or GC SXT (with StoNgo) I'm still leaning toward the F-Style (SEL AWD), but the mileage is about the same as what I'm getting in my '01 XLT Escape v6 4wd. I also priced one on the Fordvehicle and it came out to $30k +change. The dealer I bought my Escape at has already offered me $17k trade if I buy the F-Style. Plus, I still have the letter for the year of free gas from the Dealers Owner :> I can say I'm tempted.

Odie

kcan

Sounds like your a Ford family to me?
The Freestyle is a good compromise between the Pilot SUV and the minivan...
Also depends on whether you want more towing capability or not.

kcan

Lots of detail here:

http://www.epinions.com/content_155141508740

johnclineii

USA Today review:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2004-09-16-fre- estyle-five-hundred_x.htm

headcase

Reviews are nice and all, but enough already!! when the heck are these things shipping to dealers??

figueroafamily

My local dealer told me the end of the month.

Sam

ANT14

Some have already started arriving... Just takes awhile to find it, there are over 5000 Ford dealerships

joyelyse

So, my local dealership finally got a Freestyle in, and my husband and I went dashing out to drive it before it sold. Perhaps it's because I'm not an SUV person (I'm looking at mini-vans and wagons), but I thought the reviews were off-base.

If all I was concerned about was the cabin, I would have come home with this car. It is by far the most comfortable 2nd and 3rd row seating I have found in both mini-vans and wagons. Storage was good. The third row folded flat easily. The third row was fairly accessible. The cloth was fine (though not as nice as the MPV.) I didn't get to test out the leather.

The test drive was another story. Acceleration was terrible. I did not feel at all comfortable merging. Cornering was also sub-par. I really needed to hit the brake to keep from feeling like I was going to tip over. Noise was OK, but certainly not the best I've experienced.

I really hate how much I don't like driving the car, because it's so perfect for what I'm looking for. But I would never feel safe with that poor acceleration.

Joy Elyse

figueroafamily

The Duratec 35 should be available by next year. It's a more capable engine. (See post 886 from ANT14 on its capabilities.) I don't know if that wait meets your purchase timing needs.

In my case, it won't. It's a Freebie or some other vehicle.

I recognize most reviews note the engine as Freebie's "Brad Pitt's heel" (oops, Achilles, as in "Troy" . I have to see for myself.

-- Edit --
J.E., was it a Limited or an SE/SEL? Some reviewers said there's a distinct difference on the drive quality.
-- Edit --

Sam

johnclineii

Don't forget the CVT makes it FEEL like you are accelerating much less slowly than you are.

And, from what I hear, it will be at least two, if not three, model years before we see the larger engine. Sales may dictate a different answer, though!

figueroafamily

Copy/Paste
----------
And, from what I hear, it will be at least two, if not three, model years before we see the larger engine. Sales may dictate a different answer, though!
----------

Ouch!

Sam

ANT14

Ok from Mr.Ed... The engine won't come in till the mid-cycle refresh, 2 years from now. AT that time, you'll also receive a new front fascia and retouched rear fascia (the lights change a bit). Very much to what you will see on the upcoming Fusion... The 3 bar design.

As for the engine feeling slow, as John said, it FEELS slow because it's a CVT. And that's the common misconception people are making. They expect a downshift when they slam the gas, when in reality it does it much quicker than conventional automatics.

0-60SEC of 7.4, to 8.2 I think is quite well for any sedan of that weight and heft, with a fuel economy of 21/29, 19/26. It's all relevent. Not everyone needs a V8, and chances are the majority of people that will be the vehicle, have V6's, or are upping from I4. And with the current fuel prices and the economy, a V6 as this would do well.

As for the cornering and breaking, they are ahead of the class in all aspects. It's not a Mustang, nor does it need to be.

Noise wise I can answer that, the SEL and Limited have more insulation in the cabin, so it's quieter than the SE. Not that the SE is loud by any means. And the ride is a bit choppier with the 18in wheels on the Limited when you hit a washboard surface. Which might be experienced maybe ONCE a month for a split second over railroad track crossings maybe ?

joyelyse

Sam, it was an SE, not an SEL. With only one available in the Boston area, I didn't have a lot of choice. Once they become more widespread, I'll give it another chance. I try the SEL and/or the Limited and hit the road for longer. I'll keep in mind the whole CVT feeling aspect. Maybe it will change my mind.

I wouldn't want to go up to a V8. I already have issues with the fuel efficiency/emissions of the cars I'm test driving. I wish there was a good choice for a family hybrid. The best I can do now is the Sienna, and it's like driving mush.

Joy Elyse

kcan

The acceleration numbers sure seem good for the Freestyle!
I've had 4 & 6 cylinders my whole life because that is all I need. I appreciate some people need more for towing and grades.
Sometime I think we'll still be discussing acceleration as we pump the last gallon of gas on the planet.
Did the Freestyle really feel like it was going to tip over??

joyelyse

>Did the Freestyle really feel like it was going to tip over??

To me it did. But I am not used to SUVs and being up hihigh.I just know I felt more comfortable in the MPV.

Joy Elyse

mgpmgp

Why is the freestyle only equipped with privacy glass in the rear quarter? I looked at all the pictures on Ford's web site and I am convinced that there is no 2nd row privacy glass despite some pictures that almost seem to show it, but upon closer inspection, I am convinced that it does not exist? I also have the brochure which is excellent overall, but again it supports the notion that there is no privacy glass. My guess is that it will be offered next year.

All this talk about freestyle feeling "tippy" makes me wonder what is the rollover resistance of a Freestyle likely to be. I know they have no active anti-rollover system but its lower body should help out. I believe the pilot is the only SUV that earns 4 stars. Hopefully the freestyle will match that. Rollover resistance and crash test scores can be found at nhtsa.gov, but freestyle's aren't available yet.

If the AWD system only engages when needed, why is there a 10% reduction in mpg, it doesn't add that much weight?

Any idea as to when the mercury version of the freestyle will become available and what are likely to be the main differences?

ANT14

I have yet to read any reviews of the vehicle feeling tippy. And i've thrown that vehicle every which way, and I say it grips the road much better than even a Camry or Accord. The only difference between the Freestyle and 500 is one inch of height, and since it's car based it does not at all give you an impression of flipping.

MGP,

The Haldex AWD system adds around 150lbs, compare these to other AWD/4x4 systems that can weight up to 400lbs. The MPG issue isn't really related to the AWD, but it's how the vehicle is tested. IN real world senarios I expect the CVT to do as better as the 6 speed unit. Remember the vehicles are tested PER EPA regulations. I can name numerous vehicles that are 'tricked' into posting high EPA data, while in real world senarios post much less. The angency understands it needs to improve it's testing to reflect real world data, over the antiquated system from decades ago.

As for what the Mercury version will have, that is still being worked out. Too early to speculate...

nedc2

I drove the Freesstyle at a ride and drive on Belle Isle in Detroit, it was an SEL. I threw that thing around hairpin turns and through a slalom at speeds I'd never try on public roads when approaching a sharp turn and I honestly could detect no tippiness. Frankly it seems to have less body lean than you would find on a Taurus. The seating position isn't all that high either, lower than the MPV or almost any SUV, including most car based ones. It seemed quick enough too, at least tom, almost comparable to my old Crown Vic with its V8, but it sure doesn't sound like any other car I've driven, there is a noticable, almost turbine like, whine from the CVT when the engines revving, and no jump when the car accelerates. It is different.

beer4704

Did not drive, only looked. Here goes, front hood misaligned as was rear hatch glass. To me that was almost unforgiveable considering the tight tolerances on Toys and Hondas. Paint looked good. Wheels looked excellent with 17" tires. Interior materials were a large step up for a Ford, well done actually. Interior seemed quite large and usable. Third row was a little cramped but it was more accomadating than the 3rd seat in a Tahoe! If you want heft however, the Taho would win hands down, but that would be two different consumer types!. I feel the overall size is excellent and what the average American can use for everyday use and weekend activities. I imagine that the 2 new A/T will make the 3.0 seem larger than it is, but, I can't really comment because I did not drive it. I think
Ford has a winner on their hands that will cannabalize the Escape and perhaps a few others. The question is " Will Ford sell more units all told?" I think the answer is yes.Some who want an AWD wagon will still think Subaru and can you blame them?I also think that the Five Hundred is going to fly off the lots. All in all it seems like a good effort. Reliability concerns will need to be addressed going forward in the public's mind. Few are concerned about the reliability of a Camry when they buy one. Can Ford sell a 28-30K vehicle with AWD and pull it off? I hope they can.

johnclineii

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/21/c01-279950.htm

figueroafamily

I'm not a tire expert, so here's a question. I want to understand the difference between the 18" tires vs. 17".
* ride
* handling
* choppiness or bumpiness
* turning & cornering

Thank you for your help.

BTW, Freebie's coming to town. There's a Silver SEL at a dealer 15+ miles from home. There are two Limiteds a little farther. I bet the nearby dealer should get his SEL & LIM by weekend. (The latter is NANCYB-colored.

If I get my hands on them, I'll tell you. I have a handful of ideas for the photo coverage...

Sam

figueroafamily

Yes. See ANT14's post (#907). First paragraph.

Personally, I like it as currently shown. But a good rebate can entice a compromise...

Sam

headcase

As our family car is dead, we're scrambling to find a dealer that has any Freestyle in stock to test drive. All say "soon", but no definative dates.

Perhaps when folks on the board say they have a local dealer with a unit in stock, they can say *where*.

Thanks.

canadiangal

i live in canada, and as all u ppl kno it can get cold up here in the winter. WE also get lots and lots uv snow. so i wanna kno how much ground clearance it has. i have read that it has 5.1, but somehow i find that hard 2 believe. or if u get the awd its 6.1. but this is where i get confused, cuz i read on another site that it has 8.5(wich seems a little bit high, but not unbelievable). wen i compare the chrysler and the freestyle( with pictures) the pacifica has 6.9 inches but in the pictures the freestyle looks like it has more than the pacifica( so how can it have 5.1????). so as u can see i am very confused. i am hoping it has 8.5 cuz i like doing some light off roading, a playing in the snow.

     ne way if ne body finds out, or if u could take a tape measure or somthing and measure the ground clearance on the awd model that will be great! cuz our deealer hasnt even recieved the new focus so im not planning that out dealer will get the freestyle for a while.

thnx!!!!!!!!!!

newdriver2

I saw the Freestyle in dealer yesterday. The Ground Clearance is seem higher than 5.1 inchs. However, Carpoint.com and Yahoo Car Search also said it has only 5.1. Where did you find it has 8.5 ground clearance. Did Ford say anything about the ground clearance because I think the official data will be much more accurate.

explorerx4

what do you drive now?

kcan

I'm not expert on tires either, but here's some info I have gathered:
P215/65Rx17 -- 28.00 inch didiameterwall height=5.5", tread width=8.5"
P225/60Rx18 -- 28.6 inch didiameterwall height=5.3", tread width=8.9"

The wider tires put more rubber on the road so they should get more traction on pavement, but they can "float" a bit more on snow (less weight per surface area.
There really isn't a big difference between these two tires though.
Lower wall height means the rubber absorbs less shock (choppier ride) and is more susceptable to bottoming out to the rim in a pothole. Lower wall height also means better cornering as the tires don't roll under as much (better handling).
My thinking is that the 17" is probably better for the average driver on roads that aren't in great shape.

This link explains a bit
http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=94#La%20hauteur%20du%20flanc- %20d'un%20pneu

figueroafamily

Thank you. This clears the smoke. The link is very insightful.

Most 1st/2nd roads are decent around here (New Jersey), yet snow is a factor. I agree with you, the 17" seems the most practical for my use.

Sam

johnclineii

And for those who aren't reading over there, there have been several very good posts lately over at Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego in the Town Hall here at Edmunds on why the larger tires/wheels...

johnclineii

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0409/22/g01-280945.htm

and

http://www.nascar.com/2004/auto/09/20/ford_explorer/

luck11

I have been lurking on this board since the intro of the Freestyle FX over a year ago, and seriously considering the Freestyle. But, I finally decided to stay with the Subaru brand and purchased a 05 Outback XT Ltd. Although a 7-seater is great, it is not a necessity for me with a family of 3.

Anyway, thanks to all for the info you have shared here.

Cheers.
Jay.

canadiangal

i am not sure where i found 8.5 inches, but it was only one site that said it had 8.5. so i could be wrong.

canadiangal

o ya i remember where i found it had 8.5! it was on the australian ford web site. they dont sell the freestyle there but it is pretty much the same vehicle so i asumed the freestyle must have around 8.5 aswell, but i could be wrong. and i havnt seen ne info on the the actual freestyles ground clearance on the north american web sites. so sorry if i am wrong.

canadiangal

the australian ford website had info on their model of the freestyle. it turns out that their modelis called the "territory" and is built on a rwd/awd platform. so that could play a factor in the freestyle ground clearance game.

canadiangal

sam, u think your roads are bad in New Jersey? tyr living in saskatchewan ( bet u have never even heard of it). its in canada just so u kno. our free ways are probly worse than your gravel roads. do u even have gravel roads down there? how much snow do u get down there. cuz up here we usually get a minimum uv 2.5 feet of snow. i could b wrong but i think we have it a little bit worse up here.