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Comments
What, you think ford just love to give money away to toyota for no good reason *laugh*
It's called licensing - it happens in many industries. Why pay to develop you're own discreet technology when it would be cheaper to pay someone else a few bucks to use theirs. Everybody wins.
We all know that PC's exploded when IBM licensed the technology and Apple became second tier because they didn't.
on a side note, went to the local ford dealer here in Hawaii and the salesguy was clueless about the freestyle. I asked him if he had any freestyle on stock and he kept pointing me to the freestar. I told him, No i want to see the freestyle not the freestar. He looked puzzle and I had to finally clue him what the freestyle was. Gees how some of this guys keep their job is beyond me.
Now, if you really wanted to be annoying (Like I have been in the past) I would print out Freestyle information, print some pictures online, etc. and SHOW it to him. Just like you would do with a little kid "Here, let me hold your hand, so you see what I'm talking about" because it's what some sales people deserve.
Of course, this is a common tactic for them to sell you what THEY have there, AT that moment. So there are some that believe their customer's are un-educated, and act as if they really don't know. If it's possible, I would go to another dealership.
Went to another ford dealer today and the salesguy knew exactly what I was referring to. He said he didn't have any in stock right now but they should be getting some in starting October.
-- Recall my Freebie is a LIM. --
On noise, I did the "ANT14 Test"
Extremely snooth ride. I thought my father-in-law & salesMicki, feels like riding on a bed! Extremely comfortable.
It behaved what I can only call excellent. I'm very impressed.
My only gripe is the height, and that's due to my CAR upbringing. This is my first vehicle of the _UV type. A little getting used to is in order. Otherwise, I handledl it with absolute ease.
I lost the battle with Contour. They won't accept it as trade. As I came into the dealer, it gave me enough signs of warning. (Noises, lights, etc.) I hope I can donate it.
Sam
Since your vehicle can tow, you should check my dream trailer. (I get no commissions.)
http://trailmanor.com/
It may get your adventure gene stirred
The posts are public domain, within restrictions set by your e-hosts, edmunds.com. Keep reading, so you can enjoy the "Freebie gossip".
Don't feel sheepish. You came out with a vehicle you'll enjoy just as much as Freebie (well, a bit less
Sam
My popup: link.
Maybe that's why I only went camping one week this summer; the ground seems harder after you turn 50.
Steve, Host
Those restrictions are a full copyright.
I stand corrected.
--------
Mr. Moderator, you can't be THAT old. There are two Egyptian Mummies pictured on the floorplan!
When all else fails, claim Jack Benny's age.
Sam
I hope they learned their lessons, and applied them well. They're competing with companies that "do it right" in most customers' (and reviewers') eyes. (ANT14 highlighted some blunders, yet they don't see that far.)
How many auto segments' top-rated vehicles are from Ford? Few, most being SUVs. Furthermore, the competition continuously erodes that advantage.
No company will last long when they offer less product for more or same money. "Less-than" only increases how long the dying takes.
* Sooner or later, the "more product" side will make buying the lesser one a dumb decision.
* OR, the cost of making the "less product" will kill any profit potential.
I believe the changes at Ford that resulted in Freebie/Monty/500 production are in the right direction. Toyota may do all that and more blindfolded, but it takes seldom-seen courage to change things to that scale. Also a very honest realization that Ford won't survive in a Taurus & Explorer comfort zone.
If I get ANY recall info, you'll get every word of it.
Sam
Mazda, in part owned and totally controlled by Ford, has put out a fix for rust on tops of Mazda6 doors that many consider laughable, and denies that the rust is of any concern to the longterm structural integrity of the vehicle. Perhaps.
Secret recalls, denials and dealing with vocal customers only and/or those who litigate.
Be careful what you wish for.
You may get it.
Then again, I have received TSB's that I've never responded to. And to think, there's a Ford dealership 8 blocks from me heh...
I went in the dealership and said "I understand that you have a couple of Freestyles in inventory" and their initial reply "Freestars?". "No, Freestyles" I reply.
Although I can forgive them as I have an English accent, and many people here in Wisconsin initial mistake certain words I say, why do I get the feeling that many people will end up going through the same dialog.
Turns out that they only had one, the SEL, that arrived just an hour or two earlier and that the Limited has not turned up yet. The car was in the back waiting prep, but I still went back to take a look.
It was the first time I was able to sit inside and poke around a bit. Initial impressions where a little disappointing, but as the car was not prepped and mostly covered in protective plastic it was hard to be particularly critical. I will pop back later in the week and have another look when the car is drivable.
I am mostly interested in the Limited so I really want to see that car. One thing I noted was that the "stadium seating" felt funny to me when I sat in the back, like I was sitting too high, but I am sure my daughter would love that.
I told the dealer that I qualify for Ford's X-plan pricing and he was quite willing to work with me on that when the time was right.
I will write more on my experiences when I get to drive the cars.
Kerry
It was locked up and I didn't bother the sales rep as I am not in the market for this type vehicle. (nor any other type for a few years)
I only hope Russ Darrow doen't screw up the dealership as I have been very impressed with their service department in the half dozen times I have used them in the last 14 years. Their new car prices were always good too. Time will tell whether this continues.
I was looking at the Ford dealership in Racine, but I live up in Milwaukee metro area so I will look around there as well over the next month or two.
I would like to take delivery of a new vehicle by early December, so I have a month to research new cars, and assuming no more than 6 week delivery should be find.
Any idea on how long it is to take delivery at a dealer from a custom order?
Kerry.
* The safety package is on allocation.
* Dealer supply of on-lot orders is being filled before SOLD customer orders (if true, I think this is NUTS)
Sounds like there are more Freestyles showing up in dealerships every day. Even though we bought something else, I'm still going to find myself looking at the Ford dealerships every time I pass one!!!! I may even stop for a test drive one day! -- Nancy B.
I got a complete cure from the "seat too high" syndrome. Recall I used CARS before. It's great, as it makes you feel you are in a way huge vehicle. I need to get used to the steering wheel, as I felt it smaller than Contour's.
One thing I noticed is that Duratec 30 & CVT tend to go high on the tach as I accelerate. Once I reach the desired speed, they drop the tach count, as much as 1.5K rpm's, to a steady level. (I did 45 in a medium steep hill then.) The final rpm count was very low compared to our Windstar. That was a pleasant surprise. (ANT14, it made me recall the torotrac CVT's home page, although in a much smaller scale.)
The CVT errs on the side of power, at the expense of rpm's. Its go-high-and-then-settle gives the IMPRESSION of being underpowered. That would be true on a gear transmission. What really transpires within Freebie is the CVT takes its time to adjust to your speed. This lets you do whatever acceleration profile you want, without hesitation on CVT's part. It takes a little getting used to, as your (gear transmission) Pavlovian reaction is to THINK the car over-revs.
This LIM Freebie has a truckload of buttons. I already understand most if not all. However, driving it without reading the manual was a bit intimidating.
The noise level is great. I turned of the radio to listen. The defrosters were markedly louder than the Duratec 30's purr. (Like a vocalist is louder to the rest of a band.)
Another thing is that Freebie is BIG. I had to be way careful while parking it in our garage. To enter "my" side, you have to come at an angle, which can easily become a scratching experience. (I'm going to check how much getting a single rather than two openers.)
My first impression with the brakes is positive. They WILL stop you. The question is whether you'll come out flying when you press them. OK, I exaggerated a bit
I'll keep you posted, as I do more driving, etc.
Sam
PS - Caveat emptor (buyer beware, if I got my Latin right) regarding dealer installed reverse sensors. See Edmunds' comments on Dealer installed anythings.
***There are the two bland mid-size products coming this fall from Ford — its Five Hundred sedan and Freestyle crossover vehicle, Ford’s first. They may indeed be conservative, even derivative of a 5-year-old VW Passat, but you only need to understand the success of, say, the Toyota Camry to understand that affordable and dependable blandness can mean big success if they are executed properly.
Are the Five Hundred and the Freestyle destined to be home runs? Probably not. They may not need to be in Bill Ford’s 21st-century Ford, which is building “our business case on the back of hitting a bunch of singles.” ****
The entire article can be found at: http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/29/a01-288088.htm
That reminds me of a letter sent to a band, rejecting a recording contract with them. They said something about their music with amplifiers not being in tune with customer's taste of the day.
The band was the BEATLES.
Freebie is not the strongest, nor the ____-est on its class. It's a good compromise. Precisely what many people need. IMHO, the reviewer may get a surprise.
Sam
PS - Thanks for the Hurray, ANDYMAN73. I'll tell my wife, who'll probably drive it most. (I've been domesticated. =(
With nothing on the lots to show, they won't get as much interest.
-juice
Nice to see someone on this discussion buying a Freestyle! For the rest of us talk is cheaper at this point.
Question for you: do you think the Freestyle CVT revs higher than a normal 4 spd transmission? Or is it just that it stays up there whereas a shift transmission is going up and down?
Are the revs really noticable under normal accelleration? If you accellerated slower would the RPM stay lower?
Congrats Sam!
Nice to see someone on this discussion buying a Freestyle! For the rest of us talk is cheaper at this point.
*********
Thank you.
No, everyone's talk is equally valuable. I bet you can highlight things too look at which I never imagined. Things like those the dealer should attend to if wrong.
*********
Question for you: do you think the Freestyle CVT revs higher than a normal 4 spd transmission? Or is it just that it stays up there whereas a shift transmission is going up and down?
*********
The CVT is a completely different animal. I'll describe what happens when you press the pedal, as when you enter an Interstate.
* As you press the pedal, it'll "over-react" rpm-wise. The tach will move up fast (4-5,000 rpm).
* Within two seconds of stepping on it, the rpm count starts to drop. Don't be amazed to see over a 1,000 (up to 2,000!) rpm say 'bye within the next 2-3 seconds. The rpm count gets steady in 5 seconds or less. (Those are not chronometer timed, but "brain ballparks".)
* That rpm behavior is similar to a "gear transmission", yet more dramatic since pulleys are far faster than a gear shift.
* If you keep your acceleration steady (over 3-5 seconds), Freebie will do something way unusual for most of us. The car will continue to ACCELERATE, while simultaneously the rpms DROP. My mech-challenged instinct told me "lost the engine!". Nope, that's a CVT in action.
* In a flat section of I-80 (north NJ), Freebie sustained 65 MPH at 1,800 rpm. My Windstar does 2,500 give or take.
* BTW, the speed control is real good. The speedometer was steady, like if it was glued in. The tach adjusted to up & down hill pavement with equal ease. (I'll try a REAL steep incline later on.)
*********
Are the revs really noticeable under normal acceleration? If you accelerated slower would the RPM stay lower?
*********
* Yes. Although a "gear transmission" would sound/react about the same. The CVT makes the rpm rise somewhat dramatic, as I said earlier. (It's only a matter of getting used to.)
* I don't think so. Perhaps some reduction if at all.
* See my description above on how Freebie gets you in an Interstate.
* The "over-rev" only occurs for a couple of seconds. That's because the CVT errs on the side of power. It takes a few seconds to find the perfect pulley point for your desired speed (include incline up/down as well).
* This behavior has a hidden benefit. It trains you to fix your acceleration or speed profile. That's how Freebie's CVT can settle on the perfect pulley point. Since that point is much lower than a "gear transmission", you'll save more on gas.
*********
I'll drive our Windstar to work tomorrow. I'll use the same route to compare.
In short, it's "odd behavior" is because of simple facts of physics, and not the product of a Duratec seeking hernias. (I realize most reviews call the Duratec 30 "barely adequate". My description is "sufficient".)
Sam
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/30/b01-289470.htm
This should positively affect lease payments.
-juice
These numbers never bother me because we keep our vehicles long enough so the remaining value is more dependent on the condition of the vehicle.
Those who lease or trade often, it might be another story. In those cases, it comes down to choosing of how to minimize the high rate of wasting their money, in which case a vehicle with high residual value makes "sense".
But that is why you see $8,999 specials at the rental car lot for 2 year old ones.
I guess this means the new Fords will still be there, but it'll be more like $11,999.
-juice
thnx
CANADIANGAL
They also pointed out some of the safety features inherited from Volvo. The review was very favorable.
Is there an embargo or something? I haven't seen much at all on the Freestyle.
-juice
Just to let you all know...
Our local dealership had SEL's and a Limited arrive this week, so we went down to take a look. First impression of the outside was it's nice looking, and certainly hard to pin down (is it more like a car, a mini-van, or a SUV?). In the end, my wife and I couldn't agree. And yes, it's deifinately only tinted in the read window -- not the 2nd row. But any local tinting company can change that in a day.
When we got inside the Freestyle, we were amazed by the amount of room inside, versus how small the vehicle was outside -- very impressive engineering feat. The SEL felt really cheap inside -- not just the seating, smaller wheels, less options, but also the looks of the dash, and everything else. For not much more $$, the Limited is a WAY big jump up in style. So we asked the dealer if we could borrow the Limited for a day, since we rarely buy a car based on a 10-minute test drive.
Took it home and around town -- very smooth ride. Turning radius in the AWD was excellent -- seemed to turn on a dime. Took the bumps well, and the interior was VERY quiet. Very much like a Lexus quiet. The acceleration was better than most of the other "cross-over" vehicles we've been test-driving lately, and the braking was very impressive - stopped quickly.
The seats are Volvo-like firm and shaped, which I hope will help on those long-term trips. Seats fold up and out of the way very easily, for more cargo space. And with the 3rd row in use, the pictures online don't do the cargo space justice -- a LOT more room with that deep well behind the 3rd row, versus any other vehicle we looked at. We tossed our stroller in there, and still plenty of space to toss groceries or any bags on top. Believe the hype -- 3rd row is the most spacious of any 3rd row we've ever sat in -- truly usable for an adult on short trips, or kids longer-term.
Sound system was adequate, and the dual-zone climate control system worked well. Lots of cup holders and storage pockets all around for the kids. The biggest grip we had with the interior is the very high placement of the rear view mirror on the windshield. Because of this, when the kids use the optional DVD player (this one had it), it blocks out most of the view out the back window. If you need DVD system for the rear, get one of those aftermarket packages from Best Buy, etc. that install the screen in the back of the headrest.
The other major complaint my wife had was the doors -- we constantly had to slam the doors to get them to shut, because the air-tight cabin was perhaps engineered a little TOO air-tight... you could literally feel the air pressure create resistance as you shut the door. Great for soundproofing, bad for door shutting.
So after test-driving the Volvo XC90 (which is also built on the same platform as the Freestyle), the Acura MDX, a few other vehicles, we decided to buy the Freestyle for the following reasons:
- EXTREMELY roomy inside for families, compared to other cross-over vehicles
- VERY smooth car-like ride
- nice interior (Limited)
- semi-sporty exterior (I just wish I could jack up the body a few inches with out voiding the factory warranty)
- closest you'll get to mini-van practicality, without looking like one (for the most part)
- excellent fuel efficiency compared to others
- excellent price point, especially if you have the X-Plan ;-)
Oh, and just for kicks, we test drove the latest Explorer, and the Freestyle certainly had more room inside for kids car seats, etc.
Yes you are correct. The "fart box" of the vehicle had to be increased after some pre-production units where hard to open/close because of the air sunction. Even ears would pop inside the vehicle, if the doors were slammed. SO that was rectified. But even still, it seals very tightly.
I notice you got it on the X-Plan; I too quality for that. I am interested to know if you were able to haggle any extra discount of if you went straight with the X-Plan price?
Kerry
I must note that by the time we get a flurry, you guys/gals would be deep in white burials. Once I get some, I'll tell you.
Sam
Kerry
I agree on the DVD becoming obstructed view. Anyway, you can buy 3 or 4 at Wal-Mart for what you'll pay for Freebie's!
Only the trunk gives me door ajar troubles. A steady application of Newton's Second Law (force!) solves it.
I disagree on the audio. (I may be biased as it's my first vehicle with sub woofer.) To me, the sound is completely crystal clear. I enjoy that sound a lot more than the one from sound systems I mixed on during my "sound guy" days.
Another thing I had to get used to is the mirror/seat memory. Contour and Windstar don't have it, so we kept the same settings on both vehicles. (Wife & I are two inches apart in height.) However, Freebie forces you to select your memory. The mirrors go out and down, until you press your memory setting. If you forget to press before shifting off park, they won't move. You'll either turn off/on Freebie or adjust on the fly.
We found a small paint blemish on the driver back door. It looked like a scratch, but then when my friend opened the door, its inside also had those same "spots". Not a problem, VERY small, and the dealer will give it a look.
NANCYB: Yes, it's the Blue LIM you saw in the pictures. I'll attempt to get more. Say where you want the picture taken! Hmm... the driver seat? Others?
CANADIANGAL: Ours is LIM, with everything but reverse sensor and DVD. (Our reverse sensor is dealer installed. I don't like it.) Some Plans are $1,500 under invoice, others are invoice. Give or take.
Where? If you qualify, you may want to check http://axz.ford.com. My father in-law retired from Ford, so I came in easy. BTW, retirees get an extra $1,000 off Nov 20-30. Check website for details, provided you or your family qualifies.
Sam