Car & Driver magazine has a very nice article in the Jan. issue. They LOVE the Freestyle in almost every respect, with the exception of the underpowered engine (of course!) and the 2000 lbs. towing which is not enough for them.
Otherwise they say only good things about it. They love the quietness, handling and road holding, build quality (!), and room.
So once the Freestyle gets the 3.5L Duratec, we can hope that all critics would fly away?
I guess at the moment that forces me into the AWD, but I'd probably opt for that anyway.
I take it that the AWD is geared a bit more towards better acceleration and higher rpm's at cruise than the FWD? That would explain the mpg dropping from 27 to 24 on the highway (20 to 19 in the city). Anybody happen to know what happens to the 0-60 time with AWD?
The one thing I do not like about the Limited is that faux wood-grain up front. Ugh, ugh, ugh.
I wonder if they could change that to the faux carbon-fiber if I ordered? Probably not. I can only hope that there's after-market stuff to replace it. Is it really just an "applique"? Meaning that it's essentially like contact paper?
Thanks for the info about Car and Driver article. I'll have to go pick it up.
I wonder if they feel that the 3.0 Duratec is also underpowerd in the Taurus sedan/wagon? They must, because it feels about the same, to me.
I think anything less would be underpowered. Meaning, unsafe for merging into highway traffic around here. Like 140-160 hp 3.0 liter SOHC engine that's the base engine in the Taurus. Adequate if you live somewhere where the traffic isn't so aggressive as it is around Houston.
Ask the dealer if they have a build date, once you have that, then officially it means there's a place reserved on the assembly line for your vehicles.
Barnstorm,
If the dealership is nice, and they like you, they could possible switch the faux carbon applique, with another vehicles wood variety, But yet, chances are you'll find something aftermarket, I always do.
Well, they may not like me too much since I'll order with X-plan pricing. Hehe. Still, the salesman said I could see HIM and not the fleet manager. So maybe there's still a commission in it for him somewhere.
How much work is it to switch the applique, though?
The name implies that it's something like contact paper, which could be a real mess to do.
In reality, it looks like it might be something that just "pops" in and out.
Personally, I'd settle for it being the same color as the surrounding areas.
Now if they could just get of that chrome on and around the gear shift . . . . .
I think the wood grain would look better with one of the darker interiors. But on the Limited, that would mean black. And I can't see having a black interior down here.
Right now we'll probably go for the Titanium Green Metallic and Pebble Leather. At least we both agree on that one. And it'll be a close match for the 02 Taurus we keep.
That's what I would have guessed, just looking at it. I would never call it an "applique", then. I'd call it an "insert".
Hmmm, I could probably find somebody willing to PAY me to swap with them. Hehe. I'll also bet Ford has that available as a replacement part somewhere.
Checked out the magazine rack at the grocery store, but didn't see a Car and Driver. They did have a January issue of Motor Trend, though. It had an article comparing the Pacifica to the Freestyle.
They liked the Freestyle better, but didn't really seem to think either was all that great. Definitely thought the Freestyle was underpowered.
They had an AWD version, and clocked it at 9.2 seconds for 0-60.
Maybe I should wait for the SRT-8 version of the Magnum, instead. A bored-out 5.7 L Hemi (to 6.1 L) with 420 ponies. Yowza!
Can you tell me how the Traction Control on the Freestyle differs from the ESP (Electronic Stability Control) on say the Dodge Magnum or Chrylser 300C?
Aren't they basically doing the same thing, which is to apply brakes and change power (as needed) to keep the vehicle moving in a straight line?
You'll have to wait a few days to get Car & Driver at newsstands and magazine stores. I got it in the mail as a subscriber.
Here is what they say about the engine:
"Power comes from Ford's familiar DOHC 3.0-liter V-6 that does duty in the Five Hundred. The engine's 203 horsepower and 207 Lb.-Ft. of torque work well enough in smaller vehicles, but in the Freestyle the relatively small mill has 4190 pounds and the friction of an AWD system to put into motion. Supposedly, a 3.5-liter version of the engine is on the way..."
Here are the highs and the lows (from C&D):
Highs: Solid structure; quiet at speed; room for seven; low step-in height; CVT makes the most of available power.
Lows: Could use more power; engine groans when stressed; weak tow rating; questionable CVT reliability.
They had an SEL model with AWD. They rated 0-60 in 8.2 seconds
Odd that C&D would get 8.2 secs in the AWD version while Motor Trend would get 9.2 secs. It, too, was an AWD. I think it was the Limited, as I recall it having 18" wheels.
Does it make sense that 18" wheels would slow the vehicle by a whole second in the 0-60?
Barnstormer, Traction Control, ESP, etc. differ according to how the manufacturer 'calls it'. Traction control for the most part, makes use of retarding engine spark (cuts power to the engine) and will activate when a sensor detects slip on a driving rear (whether it's FWD, or RWD, depends on the vehicle itself).
This is the simplest and most common system which is what you will find in the majority of vehicles, including the Freestyle.
Now ESP, ETC, Satbili-Track, AdvancTrac, are all a bit more sophisticated. Those use various other sensors, and will apply the breaks to correct a pending overstear/understear, according to how you put your stereing wheel. EACH system (according to it's manufacturer) will incoporate these basics, in various ways to get the job done.
Ford is the only one so far that incorporates "Roll Stability Control" in a few vehicles that will factor in a possible roll-over, and use the basic principals described in the previous paragraph, to make it work.
Ford by the way, is licensing "Roll Stability" to other manufacturer's, so you might see it pop up on other manufacturer's vehicles.
Unfortunately, the Freestyle isn't showing up yet. Neither is the Magnum, though.
What I find interesting, though, looking at published 0-60 times for the Freestyle, etc, is that it's really not that bad compared to the likes of Taurus, Camry, RX330, etc.
I don't see any mention of RX330 anywhere in the sources that you mentioned (or its plebian twin the Highlander, which is probably a closer competition to Freestyle).
I just received an e-mail from Ford with a rebate offer of $500 for either the Freestyle or the Five Hundred. Does this mean that sales are slower than expected by Ford? Should I wait to see if the rebate amount goes higher?
The acceleration numbers for the Ford Freestyle (i.e., 0 to 60 in 8+ seconds) look competitive with other like vehicles. However, the consistent message from reviewers is that the Freestyle is "underengined". Could this be because the lack of torque (i.e., 200 ft-lbs) makes it feel less powerful or has Ford just "engineered: the numbers? That is, the Ford Freestyle performs well on the normal road test reports, but in everyday driving it feels sluggish. Does anybody have real world experience with driving the Freestyle?
I have had my Freestyle for 3 weeks and can tell you that underpowered it is not. The CVT with no shifting makes acceleration very deceiving. I have found acceleration more than adequate around the city as well as on the highway although I have not "stomped" on it yet (i.e, 0-60 timing) since I would like to get a few more miles on it.
I have not found merging on freeways any problem particularly in high volume traffic situations. This past weekend I had five teenagers (17 year olds) on board and absolutely no issues with acceleration or handling. It is certainly not sluggish. My previous vehicle was a 2000 Mazda MPV with a 2.5 L Duratec (170 hp) and there were lots of complaints about being underpowered. Again I never found it underpowered. I think the Freestyle is far peppier than our MPV even though it is quite a bit heavier.
Bottom line? - Numbers on paper are one thing but you really have to try the Freestyle to understand that Ford has got it right. Yes more HP might be desirable (and it will probably come) but I certainly did not buy the Freestyle as a dragster.
Mid-8's doesn't seem too bad to me. No, it won't win any drag races. But it's certainly enough to get you up and merged without causing any issues.
That last page shows a Ford similar to my first one (3 L V6 SOHC . . not the Duratec) at 10 seconds. That, to me, seemed a bit underpowered.
It shows some of the mid to late 70's Mustang 4-bangers at 14.2 seconds. That was DEFINITELY an underpowered vehicle (courtesy of my wife). It didn't feel safe to merge at ALL with that car.
Based one that, I'd say that 10 seconds is about the threshold of what I'd call "Acceptable", and it'd really need to be in the 8's to be what I'd call "adequate".
Rather than repeating myself, here's an old post of mine regarding Freebie's "lack of power".
#1012 of 1411 Re: kcan Questions by figueroafamily Sep 29, 2004 (9:53 pm)
********* Congrats Sam! Nice to see someone on this discussion buying a Freestyle! For the rest of us talk is cheaper at this point. ********* Thank you. No, everyone's talk is equally valuable. I bet you can highlight things too look at which I never imagined. Things like those the dealer should attend to if wrong.
********* Question for you: do you think the Freestyle CVT revs higher than a normal 4 spd transmission? Or is it just that it stays up there whereas a shift transmission is going up and down? ********* The CVT is a completely different animal. I'll describe what happens when you press the pedal, as when you enter an Interstate. * As you press the pedal, it'll "over-react" rpm-wise. The tach will move up fast (4-5,000 rpm). * Within two seconds of stepping on it, the rpm count starts to drop. Don't be amazed to see over a 1,000 (up to 2,000!) rpm say 'bye within the next 2-3 seconds. The rpm count gets steady in 5 seconds or less. (Those are not chronometer timed, but "brain ballparks".) * That rpm behavior is similar to a "gear transmission", yet more dramatic since pulleys are far faster than a gear shift. * If you keep your acceleration steady (over 3-5 seconds), Freebie will do something way unusual for most of us. The car will continue to ACCELERATE, while simultaneously the rpms DROP. My mech-challenged instinct told me "lost the engine!". Nope, that's a CVT in action. * In a flat section of I-80 (north NJ), Freebie sustained 65 MPH at 1,800 rpm. My Windstar does 2,500 give or take. * BTW, the speed control is real good. The speedometer was steady, like if it was glued in. The tach adjusted to up & down hill pavement with equal ease. (I'll try a REAL steep incline later on.)
********* Are the revs really noticeable under normal acceleration? If you accelerated slower would the RPM stay lower? ********* * Yes. Although a "gear transmission" would sound/react about the same. The CVT makes the rpm rise somewhat dramatic, as I said earlier. (It's only a matter of getting used to.) * I don't think so. Perhaps some reduction if at all. * See my description above on how Freebie gets you in an Interstate. * The "over-rev" only occurs for a couple of seconds. That's because the CVT errs on the side of power. It takes a few seconds to find the perfect pulley point for your desired speed (include incline up/down as well). * This behavior has a hidden benefit. It trains you to fix your acceleration or speed profile. That's how Freebie's CVT can settle on the perfect pulley point. Since that point is much lower than a "gear transmission", you'll save more on gas. *********
I'll drive our Windstar to work tomorrow. I'll use the same route to compare.
In short, it's "odd behavior" is because of simple facts of physics, and not the product of a Duratec seeking hernias. (I realize most reviews call the Duratec 30 "barely adequate". My description is "sufficient".)
I saw that post before, and I'm not sure I completely understand it.
My take on this is quite simple (and might be what you're saying anyway).
Without a CVT, this engine would be what I call "underpowered" (like the 150hp V6 Taurus, not like the 4-banger Mustang). But with the CVT, it's back to being "adequate" (or slightly better than that) like the 3.0L Duratec in the Taurus. Some would call it "more than adequate", I suppose.
However, to achieve this, it has to rev a lot higher (at least for a while) than the Duratec in the Taurus. It can do this because of the CVT. It could also do it with a 5-speed or 6-speed, I'm sure, but I'm sure it can do it more smoothly with the CVT.
I suppose that it's the fact that it has to rev so high in order to get that 8.5 secs 0-60 time (to be "adequate") that some call it underpowered. They expect an engine to get that kind of performance without having to be at 4500+ rpm for so long.
It may certainly seem underpowerd to a sports enthusiast who wants to accelerate fast up a winding road on a mountain in California or something like that. But I suspect that even the Taurus, Avalon, Explorer, Pacifica, etc. would be the same way.
Therefore, I don't see any need to single it out as being underpowered. That being said, maybe these magazines call all those other vehicles underpowered, as well. In that case, you just have to consider their bias.
I will say that it seemed more responsive to a quick push of the accelerator, in terms of going ahead and starting the acceleration process. May Tauri seem to hesitate a bit before deciding that you're really serious and want to accelerate before they come out of 4th into 3rd at highway speeds to accelerate. Thus, the Freestar seems more smooth and responsive to me. Hopefully that sensation won't change as more miles get put on the vehicle.
Just picked up our new Freestyle on Saturday morning -- found one with what we wanted and a little more at a local dealer, and they offered it to us at invoice via email so no hassling, which was GREAT. (SEL, AWD, dark blue/grey cloth, loaded w/o DVD).
We love it! The AWD kicks in incredibly fast even when you try to spin the front wheels out of a stop -- very hard to lose control. The CVT does definitely take a little getting used to -- definitely revs higher than similar acceleration in a regular 4 or 5 speed, but it also accelerates perfectly smoothly and modulates itself in a few seconds to a cruising RPM. When you stomp on the accelerator, the car just accelerates, none of the downshift pause that you get in other cars.
Have not found the car underpowered at all, but I'm not too interested in 0-60 times. You can merge onto the highway without feeling like you're straining the engine at all, and go as fast as you want to go. I don't think the automotive press has yet found a car that they don't truly believe should be faster and more powerful.
Still getting used to driving up a little higher, but it's a nice ride. Great handling, the tight frame and fairly stiff ride makes it very much like our old Volvo 850 (none of the minivan/big SUV sway like you're captaining an America's Cup yacht.)
Only 100 miles so far, but very happy with our decision.
Still lovin it. I like it better every day. Definitely not as fast as the LS V8 I traded, but suprisingly better than the Auto rags would have you believe. Ordered the factory vinyl floor mats, and they fit perfect.
Well, that's what happens when you accidently hit the enter key. Pick up my Merlot Limited w/everything but DVD. Immediately drove from MD to NJ. Maybe the best ride I have ever had! The pickup is fantastic & instantaneous. It can go with anything. The room is better than a Chevy Tahoe I used to have. Wow...wow...wow! Anybody worried about acceleration should relax...IT WILL MEET YOUR NEEDS! I am open to any questions. Chuck
Well, that's what happens when you accidently hit the enter key. Pick up my Merlot Limited w/everything but DVD. Immediately drove from MD to NJ. Maybe the best ride I have ever had! The pickup is fantastic & instantaneous. It can go with anything. The room is better than a Chevy Tahoe I used to have. Wow...wow...wow! Anybody worried about acceleration should relax...IT WILL MEET YOUR NEEDS! I am open to any questions. Chuck
We have put about 2800 miles on our SEL AWD in the past 1.5 months. It is not underpowered. If you want snap the head back acceleration, consider a Subaru WRX STI. If you want an incredibly smooth, quiet, useful vehicle the Freestyle is a good choice. Yes, the low towing capacity will keep some people away. On the other hand, hauling 4 people and lots of gear while getting 25+ MPG is very nice. Don't get hung up on the horsepower stats or the CVT until you have driven it. By the way, we have had the Freestyle on snow on trips 3 times and continuously (we live at 4800 ft) for the past two weeks. The grip is outstanding. Normally we would put studded tires on. However, the Freestyle is so good, we're thinking of studless snow tires. Plus, it is so quiet we don't want make it noisy. Anyway, other than getting picky about the interior, the Freestyle has exceeded our expectations.
Not that I wish to give people some ideas, but considering some of the testing I have placed the vehicle in, I haven't yet found another AWD (non-fulltime) vehicle that matches the grip that the 500/Freestyle has. And trust me, I try tricking it as much as possible, and I can't seem to make it slip....
The nutshell is that the sum of CVT & "wimpy" Duratec 30 is far greater than each by itself.
Freebie will do everything you ask of it, except world speed records. It should gladly delegate that to Ford GTs .
I'm extremely impressed on how it handles, runs, accelerates, and fits 6-7 at the same time.
You can't do all that anywhere else without a single-digit MPG, much less 17 & up.
Sam
PS - "New Fig Tree Branch Dept." Wife had sonogram last Fri. Kiddie heartbeat strong and healthy. Wife bursting through seams with excitement (loves kiddies like nobody else...). Still surreal to me.
Obviously you didn't drive the Merlot LIM I saw in the NJ Turnpike a month ago. I was doing 65-75, and that Freebie went past by me like if I was at a red light! (Not bad for an "underpowered" vehicle.
Front and rear side impact ratings have been posted. Both are 5 star. I couldn't tell if it was sith or without the curtains. The 500 got all 5 stars front and rear and 4 stars for rollover without the curtains.
As I've posted before, a few months ago we ordered a Limited fully loaded, minus the factory DVD player, since it completely blocks rearview line-of-sight when the screen is open.
That said, our Freestyle finally arrived a few days ago, and I immeaditely had a few aftermarket and dealer modifications done.
Namely, we had our Ford dealer tint our 2nd row windows to match the factory tinting of the 3rd row (as it should be!), and had them tint the 1st row as dark as legally possible for the state on North Carolina.
Next, we had the dealer install the new Ford "Mobile-Ease" hands-free Bluetooth cell phone kit, so my wife and I can use our Bluetooth phones without any custom-installed phone cradles or wires -- both phones work great. Just have your phone in your pocket, and as soon as you enter the Freestyle, the car pairs up with the phone for all inbound/outbound calls, with car speakers switching from music to phone. The sound of the caller on the other end is fine in the auto, but I'll admit the voice of my wife while she's in the Freestyle sounds a little bit "tinny" as compared to how she sounds using her cell phone.
Lastly, and most importantly for our family of five (three kids), I had a pair of overhead DVD players installed. After visiting numerous local mobile audio/video shops (including Tweeter, Best Buy, and some locals), we found a really great pair of COMPACT units made by LiquidVideo at our local Circuit City. We first wanted to go the route of headset install, to minimize clutter. But we ended up going the route of overhead mount for 2 reasons: a) in-the-headset installation meant having a screen no larger than 5" in each headrest b) line-of-sight of the headrest from the 3rd row seats was difficult for our kids.
By going with the overhead installation, we could get large 8" screens installed on the sides of the Freestyle, while minimizing any visual blockage of the rearview mirror. We had the pair wired together, allowing the kids to view one movie on both screens, or different movies on either screen. We also had Circuit City install a S-video connection down the B-pillar for our Playstation2 that we put under the front passenger seat (fits nicely), so the kids can play games, watch movies, or do both at the same time with two screens. And to top it off, we had wireless headphones and wireless gamepads set-up for up to four people.
Question for ANT14, Maybe I'm missing something but I notice no mention of electronic stability control on the Freestyle. Ford calls this part of their Advancetrac and it is included in the Freestar. Is there any chance Advancetrac will be incorporated in the Freestyle together with the All-speed Traction Control?
I ordered my Freebie SEL AWD early October. It arrived at the dealers middle of last week - that's roughly two months from start to finish. That's the good news - it came in! The bad news is that it came in from the factory with the wrong 2nd row seating (2 buckets, no console; should have had 60/40 split bench). This seating option is a no cost option. The error occured when the order details were entered (by a human) into the factory order system to get it in the queue in Chicago - this was where my seating option was not coded. So, everybody out there placing orders - make sure the dlr provides evidence that the factory order has been entered accurately! Another facet here is that, I'm told, that bench seating, until the advent of the Freebie, has been the standard type of 2nd row seating. Not so with the Freebie ,so it will default to 2 bench seats (SE/SEL/LTD diffs notwithstanding; mine is an SEL). How do you like them apples? I did not take delivery of the off-spec vehicle. The dlr looked at what other dlrs in the area had for the same option mix but they were already spoken for. Now they are trying to get Ford/Detroit to sign off on a seat swap with another Freebie on their lot with the seat that I should have. The fat lady is due to sing tomorrow according to expectations....
To quote you: "Stability control won't be available just yet, it's going to be awhile before it does. There's also various reasons why the AWD/CVT (which are considered premium items) are coupled together and being released first, before other versions are released. But it's all for the best... "
Can you give any more details when you refer to "other versions" and the time tables, e.g. do you mean next Oct. (2006 model)?, (2007?) or are you talking about changes before that?
And what do you mean by "it's all for the best... "
Unfortunately my Taurus now has 199,000 miles and I do not anticipate keeping it much longer but it has certainly served me well as did the Probe I drove for 245,000 miles. I would like to buy a Ford and thought the Freestyle would be ideal but certain features like stability control cause me to lean toward the Odyssey even though the two vehicles are not competeing for the same market - its just hard to resist all the performance/value the Odyssey offers at its lowest trim level going rate of around $23,100 in my area.
The current system offered is an All-Speed traction control. There's various reasons why stability control wasn't offered ar first...I believe the thinking is, that with AWD and at this price point, it should be more than enough. (From my experience with it, I haven't been able to trick the system into letting me lose control).
There's times you don't wish to integrate all the expensive toys upon the first release...
A) Another possible gadget that can go wrong, which might lead to a recall, which will give the vehicle negative publicity. The consumer's reactions are important, don't wish to integrate techonology that the majority might not need. So unless numbers otherwise state so, then the decision will be made at a later time. C) Don't wish to push the vehicles pricepoint too high, might give a negative impact. D) Another gadget that might slow down development time.
Another thing to consider, AdvanceTrac was just implemented on quite a bit of Ford's SUV's, Expy/Explorer, etc. So it's creating a bit of a shortage, and since those vehicles (as with all SUV's) are prone to rolling over, it's priority to supply them first.
So far it depends on the market, and the demographics of the consumer'. Not set time table as to when other versions will be available. But FWD-only version will be available in the next couple of months. AWD was a prority at first mainly because of the winter season.
Also, AWD and CVT are both pricey items to offer on a vehicle, in terms of engineering. The thinking behind offering this at first is, it allows inexpensive versions (FWD/6SpeedAuto) to be released later to allow the vehicle to be financially reachable for some consumer's.
At first, you usually have the "I gotta have one" buyer's which are willing to pay for all the toys and gadgets when a vehicle is first released. As the vehicles ages, you wish to keep it fresh offering updated engines, gadgets, etc. while offering configurations that are finacially suitable for buyer's who wish to buy one, but without all the unnecessary toys.
Although I'm happy to say that the F-150, 500, Freestyle has been selling much more of the higher trim levels, than first allocated. Which proves my point that people are willing to spend more, for a better product. This allows the company to research and implement the Navi/StabiltyControl, ahead of their anticipated expecations. (Not the engine though, for issues I've mentionedin posts in the beginning of the forum's opening)
As it is, what has kept the 500/Freestyle/Montego at a decent price point has been the switch to a flexible production plant. The amount of engineering and quality that has been implemented into this platform rivals that of what I saw with the DEW98 platform (JaguarXJ-Stype/Tbird/LS), and shocked the price point started as low as it is. And it's a shame most won't ever hear of it.
I'm hoping a video/documentary of it is made discussing it's development, engineering, as there's one for the F-150 on the Ford website.
Were you able to get any updates during your 8 week wait period? The dealer has not been able to get any information for me and I have it on order for over 5 weeks. I have some rebates that I need to redeem by the end of the year and I am a bit nervous about the delivery date. I live in the Chicago area so hopefully it will speed up the transport a bit.
Yes, we contacted our dealer, and once they realized we might buy elsewhere because of the releated delays, they quickly provided a fax of the Ford invoice, proving (according to the dealer) that our order was about to be filled (car about to be built).
The dealer also called into the factory, to get a *realistic" ship date. But overall, it was frustrating having to wait so long, which apparently has been due to the popularity of the Freestyle.
I remember Freestyle/500 mix was being changed in favor of the freestyle, but up in the Boston are, its almost impossible to find a Ltd not spoken for while sel/se are ignored. Is Ford upping the LTD mix? As much as I prefer the colors of the SEL, I'm trending towards the LTD due to SWMBO. Flexible production is nice but seems to me that Ford doesn't have enough production capacity.
Flexible production basically allows Ford to build various vehicles using the same assembly line, with the flick of a switch. If more Freestyles are required than the 500, it can easily switch over to do so. Also, allowing supplier's to locate their parts onsite, allows for an easier switch over.
The change has already been made to build more Freestyle, than 500/Montego's, and yes, the higher trim versions since they are selling at a much higher mix than first calculated.
Comments
Otherwise they say only good things about it. They love the quietness, handling and road holding, build quality (!), and room.
So once the Freestyle gets the 3.5L Duratec, we can hope that all critics would fly away?
Why the limited?
1) Better stereo
2) Built-in garage door opener
3) 18" wheels
4) Adjustable pedals
All things I want, but can't get any other way.
I guess at the moment that forces me into the AWD, but I'd probably opt for that anyway.
I take it that the AWD is geared a bit more towards better acceleration and higher rpm's at cruise than the FWD? That would explain the mpg dropping from 27 to 24 on the highway (20 to 19 in the city). Anybody happen to know what happens to the 0-60 time with AWD?
The one thing I do not like about the Limited is that faux wood-grain up front. Ugh, ugh, ugh.
I wonder if they could change that to the faux carbon-fiber if I ordered? Probably not. I can only hope that there's after-market stuff to replace it. Is it really just an "applique"? Meaning that it's essentially like contact paper?
I wonder if they feel that the 3.0 Duratec is also underpowerd in the Taurus sedan/wagon? They must, because it feels about the same, to me.
I think anything less would be underpowered. Meaning, unsafe for merging into highway traffic around here. Like 140-160 hp 3.0 liter SOHC engine that's the base engine in the Taurus. Adequate if you live somewhere where the traffic isn't so aggressive as it is around Houston.
Yes, they do. And they cause all sorts of problems while they're at it.
Cars that can't do 0-60 in less than 10 seconds shouldn't be allowed on the freeways around here.
Ask the dealer if they have a build date, once you have that, then officially it means there's a place reserved on the assembly line for your vehicles.
Barnstorm,
If the dealership is nice, and they like you, they could possible switch the faux carbon applique, with another vehicles wood variety, But yet, chances are you'll find something aftermarket, I always do.
How much work is it to switch the applique, though?
The name implies that it's something like contact paper, which could be a real mess to do.
In reality, it looks like it might be something that just "pops" in and out.
Personally, I'd settle for it being the same color as the surrounding areas.
Now if they could just get of that chrome on and around the gear shift . . . . .
I think the wood grain would look better with one of the darker interiors. But on the Limited, that would mean black. And I can't see having a black interior down here.
Right now we'll probably go for the Titanium Green Metallic and Pebble Leather. At least we both agree on that one. And it'll be a close match for the 02 Taurus we keep.
That's what I would have guessed, just looking at it. I would never call it an "applique", then. I'd call it an "insert".
Hmmm, I could probably find somebody willing to PAY me to swap with them. Hehe. I'll also bet Ford has that available as a replacement part somewhere.
Checked out the magazine rack at the grocery store, but didn't see a Car and Driver. They did have a January issue of Motor Trend, though. It had an article comparing the Pacifica to the Freestyle.
They liked the Freestyle better, but didn't really seem to think either was all that great. Definitely thought the Freestyle was underpowered.
They had an AWD version, and clocked it at 9.2 seconds for 0-60.
Maybe I should wait for the SRT-8 version of the Magnum, instead. A bored-out 5.7 L Hemi (to 6.1 L) with 420 ponies. Yowza!
Aren't they basically doing the same thing, which is to apply brakes and change power (as needed) to keep the vehicle moving in a straight line?
Here is what they say about the engine:
"Power comes from Ford's familiar DOHC 3.0-liter V-6 that does duty in the Five Hundred. The engine's 203 horsepower and 207 Lb.-Ft. of torque work well enough in smaller vehicles, but in the Freestyle the relatively small mill has 4190 pounds and the friction of an AWD system to put into motion. Supposedly, a 3.5-liter version of the engine is on the way..."
Here are the highs and the lows (from C&D):
Highs: Solid structure; quiet at speed; room for seven; low step-in height; CVT makes the most of available power.
Lows: Could use more power; engine groans when stressed; weak tow rating; questionable CVT reliability.
They had an SEL model with AWD. They rated 0-60 in 8.2 seconds
Does it make sense that 18" wheels would slow the vehicle by a whole second in the 0-60?
Traction Control, ESP, etc. differ according to how the manufacturer 'calls it'. Traction control for the most part, makes use of retarding engine spark (cuts power to the engine) and will activate when a sensor detects slip on a driving rear (whether it's FWD, or RWD, depends on the vehicle itself).
This is the simplest and most common system which is what you will find in the majority of vehicles, including the Freestyle.
Now ESP, ETC, Satbili-Track, AdvancTrac, are all a bit more sophisticated. Those use various other sensors, and will apply the breaks to correct a pending overstear/understear, according to how you put your stereing wheel. EACH system (according to it's manufacturer) will incoporate these basics, in various ways to get the job done.
Ford is the only one so far that incorporates "Roll Stability Control" in a few vehicles that will factor in a possible roll-over, and use the basic principals described in the previous paragraph, to make it work.
Ford by the way, is licensing "Roll Stability" to other manufacturer's, so you might see it pop up on other manufacturer's vehicles.
Here's a site I found that lists some 0-60 times for a lot of cars:
http://www.car-videos.com/performance/speed.asp?Speed1=0&Spee- d2=60
And here's one that lets you compare 1/4 mile times:
http://www.dragtimes.com/compare.php
Hmmm, using a bit of extrapolation, I found this for 30-50 times:
http://www.car-videos.com/performance/speed.asp?Speed1=30&Spe- ed2=50
And this for 50-70 times:
http://www.car-videos.com/performance/speed.asp?Speed1=50&Spe- ed2=70
Unfortunately, the Freestyle isn't showing up yet. Neither is the Magnum, though.
What I find interesting, though, looking at published 0-60 times for the Freestyle, etc, is that it's really not that bad compared to the likes of Taurus, Camry, RX330, etc.
That puts it in better perspective, IMO.
I have not found merging on freeways any problem particularly in high volume traffic situations. This past weekend I had five teenagers (17 year olds) on board and absolutely no issues with acceleration or handling. It is certainly not sluggish.
My previous vehicle was a 2000 Mazda MPV with a 2.5 L Duratec (170 hp) and there were lots of complaints about being underpowered. Again I never found it underpowered. I think the Freestyle is far peppier than our MPV even though it is quite a bit heavier.
Bottom line? - Numbers on paper are one thing but you really have to try the Freestyle to understand that Ford has got it right. Yes more HP might be desirable (and it will probably come) but I certainly did not buy the Freestyle as a dragster.
Lexus RX330 7.8 sec
Toyota Highlander 8.1 sec
Ford Taurus (Duratec) 8.2 sec
Ford Taurus wagon (Duratec) 8.4 sec
Mazda MPV 12.2 secs (woah!)
Ford Explorer (V8) 8.4 sec
Ford Explorer (V6) 10.2 sec
Toyota Camry Solara 7.2 sec
Toyota Camry (3.3 L V6) 7.6 sec
OK, here's a list of some "verified" 0-60 times:
http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html
Mid-8's doesn't seem too bad to me. No, it won't win any drag races. But it's certainly enough to get you up and merged without causing any issues.
That last page shows a Ford similar to my first one (3 L V6 SOHC . . not the Duratec) at 10 seconds. That, to me, seemed a bit underpowered.
It shows some of the mid to late 70's Mustang 4-bangers at 14.2 seconds. That was DEFINITELY an underpowered vehicle (courtesy of my wife). It didn't feel safe to merge at ALL with that car.
Based one that, I'd say that 10 seconds is about the threshold of what I'd call "Acceptable", and it'd really need to be in the 8's to be what I'd call "adequate".
Anything under 7 would simply be WOW!
#1012 of 1411 Re: kcan Questions by figueroafamily Sep 29, 2004 (9:53 pm)
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Congrats Sam!
Nice to see someone on this discussion buying a Freestyle! For the rest of us talk is cheaper at this point.
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Thank you.
No, everyone's talk is equally valuable. I bet you can highlight things too look at which I never imagined. Things like those the dealer should attend to if wrong.
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Question for you: do you think the Freestyle CVT revs higher than a normal 4 spd transmission? Or is it just that it stays up there whereas a shift transmission is going up and down?
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The CVT is a completely different animal. I'll describe what happens when you press the pedal, as when you enter an Interstate.
* As you press the pedal, it'll "over-react" rpm-wise. The tach will move up fast (4-5,000 rpm).
* Within two seconds of stepping on it, the rpm count starts to drop. Don't be amazed to see over a 1,000 (up to 2,000!) rpm say 'bye within the next 2-3 seconds. The rpm count gets steady in 5 seconds or less. (Those are not chronometer timed, but "brain ballparks".)
* That rpm behavior is similar to a "gear transmission", yet more dramatic since pulleys are far faster than a gear shift.
* If you keep your acceleration steady (over 3-5 seconds), Freebie will do something way unusual for most of us. The car will continue to ACCELERATE, while simultaneously the rpms DROP. My mech-challenged instinct told me "lost the engine!". Nope, that's a CVT in action.
* In a flat section of I-80 (north NJ), Freebie sustained 65 MPH at 1,800 rpm. My Windstar does 2,500 give or take.
* BTW, the speed control is real good. The speedometer was steady, like if it was glued in. The tach adjusted to up & down hill pavement with equal ease. (I'll try a REAL steep incline later on.)
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Are the revs really noticeable under normal acceleration? If you accelerated slower would the RPM stay lower?
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* Yes. Although a "gear transmission" would sound/react about the same. The CVT makes the rpm rise somewhat dramatic, as I said earlier. (It's only a matter of getting used to.)
* I don't think so. Perhaps some reduction if at all.
* See my description above on how Freebie gets you in an Interstate.
* The "over-rev" only occurs for a couple of seconds. That's because the CVT errs on the side of power. It takes a few seconds to find the perfect pulley point for your desired speed (include incline up/down as well).
* This behavior has a hidden benefit. It trains you to fix your acceleration or speed profile. That's how Freebie's CVT can settle on the perfect pulley point. Since that point is much lower than a "gear transmission", you'll save more on gas.
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I'll drive our Windstar to work tomorrow. I'll use the same route to compare.
In short, it's "odd behavior" is because of simple facts of physics, and not the product of a Duratec seeking hernias. (I realize most reviews call the Duratec 30 "barely adequate". My description is "sufficient".)
Sam
My take on this is quite simple (and might be what you're saying anyway).
Without a CVT, this engine would be what I call "underpowered" (like the 150hp V6 Taurus, not like the 4-banger Mustang). But with the CVT, it's back to being "adequate" (or slightly better than that) like the 3.0L Duratec in the Taurus. Some would call it "more than adequate", I suppose.
However, to achieve this, it has to rev a lot higher (at least for a while) than the Duratec in the Taurus. It can do this because of the CVT. It could also do it with a 5-speed or 6-speed, I'm sure, but I'm sure it can do it more smoothly with the CVT.
I suppose that it's the fact that it has to rev so high in order to get that 8.5 secs 0-60 time (to be "adequate") that some call it underpowered. They expect an engine to get that kind of performance without having to be at 4500+ rpm for so long.
It may certainly seem underpowerd to a sports enthusiast who wants to accelerate fast up a winding road on a mountain in California or something like that. But I suspect that even the Taurus, Avalon, Explorer, Pacifica, etc. would be the same way.
Therefore, I don't see any need to single it out as being underpowered. That being said, maybe these magazines call all those other vehicles underpowered, as well. In that case, you just have to consider their bias.
I will say that it seemed more responsive to a quick push of the accelerator, in terms of going ahead and starting the acceleration process. May Tauri seem to hesitate a bit before deciding that you're really serious and want to accelerate before they come out of 4th into 3rd at highway speeds to accelerate. Thus, the Freestar seems more smooth and responsive to me. Hopefully that sensation won't change as more miles get put on the vehicle.
We love it! The AWD kicks in incredibly fast even when you try to spin the front wheels out of a stop -- very hard to lose control. The CVT does definitely take a little getting used to -- definitely revs higher than similar acceleration in a regular 4 or 5 speed, but it also accelerates perfectly smoothly and modulates itself in a few seconds to a cruising RPM. When you stomp on the accelerator, the car just accelerates, none of the downshift pause that you get in other cars.
Have not found the car underpowered at all, but I'm not too interested in 0-60 times. You can merge onto the highway without feeling like you're straining the engine at all, and go as fast as you want to go. I don't think the automotive press has yet found a car that they don't truly believe should be faster and more powerful.
Still getting used to driving up a little higher, but it's a nice ride. Great handling, the tight frame and fairly stiff ride makes it very much like our old Volvo 850 (none of the minivan/big SUV sway like you're captaining an America's Cup yacht.)
Only 100 miles so far, but very happy with our decision.
Chuck
Chuck
Freebie will do everything you ask of it, except world speed records. It should gladly delegate that to Ford GTs
I'm extremely impressed on how it handles, runs, accelerates, and fits 6-7 at the same time.
You can't do all that anywhere else without a single-digit MPG, much less 17 & up.
Sam
PS - "New Fig Tree Branch Dept."
Wife had sonogram last Fri. Kiddie heartbeat strong and healthy. Wife bursting through seams with excitement (loves kiddies like nobody else...). Still surreal to me.
Sam
Obviously you didn't drive the Merlot LIM I saw in the NJ Turnpike a month ago. I was doing 65-75, and that Freebie went past by me like if I was at a red light! (Not bad for an "underpowered" vehicle.
Sam
That said, our Freestyle finally arrived a few days ago, and I immeaditely had a few aftermarket and dealer modifications done.
Namely, we had our Ford dealer tint our 2nd row windows to match the factory tinting of the 3rd row (as it should be!), and had them tint the 1st row as dark as legally possible for the state on North Carolina.
Next, we had the dealer install the new Ford "Mobile-Ease" hands-free Bluetooth cell phone kit, so my wife and I can use our Bluetooth phones without any custom-installed phone cradles or wires -- both phones work great. Just have your phone in your pocket, and as soon as you enter the Freestyle, the car pairs up with the phone for all inbound/outbound calls, with car speakers switching from music to phone. The sound of the caller on the other end is fine in the auto, but I'll admit the voice of my wife while she's in the Freestyle sounds a little bit "tinny" as compared to how she sounds using her cell phone.
Lastly, and most importantly for our family of five (three kids), I had a pair of overhead DVD players installed. After visiting numerous local mobile audio/video shops (including Tweeter, Best Buy, and some locals), we found a really great pair of COMPACT units made by LiquidVideo at our local Circuit City. We first wanted to go the route of headset install, to minimize clutter. But we ended up going the route of overhead mount for 2 reasons: a) in-the-headset installation meant having a screen no larger than 5" in each headrest b) line-of-sight of the headrest from the 3rd row seats was difficult for our kids.
By going with the overhead installation, we could get large 8" screens installed on the sides of the Freestyle, while minimizing any visual blockage of the rearview mirror. We had the pair wired together, allowing the kids to view one movie on both screens, or different movies on either screen. We also had Circuit City install a S-video connection down the B-pillar for our Playstation2 that we put under the front passenger seat (fits nicely), so the kids can play games, watch movies, or do both at the same time with two screens. And to top it off, we had wireless headphones and wireless gamepads set-up for up to four people.
Here's some photos of the mods:
http://homepage.mac.com/headcase/PhotoAlbum34.html
Good compromise with the liquid video.
Which of your vehicles did you replace with the Freestyle? Audi or Explorer? or did you?
Just curious - how long from the time of order until delivery for yours?
Maybe I'm missing something but I notice no mention of electronic stability control on the Freestyle. Ford calls this part of their Advancetrac and it is included in the Freestar.
Is there any chance Advancetrac will be incorporated in the Freestyle together with the All-speed Traction Control?
arrived at the dealers middle of last week - that's roughly two months from start to finish. That's the good news - it came in! The bad news is that it came in from the factory with the wrong 2nd row seating (2 buckets, no console; should have had 60/40 split bench). This seating option is a no cost option. The error occured when the order details were entered (by a human) into the factory order system to get it in the queue in Chicago - this was where my seating option was not coded.
So, everybody out there placing orders - make sure
the dlr provides evidence that the factory order
has been entered accurately! Another facet here is that, I'm told, that bench seating, until the
advent of the Freebie, has been the standard type of 2nd row seating. Not so with the Freebie ,so
it will default to 2 bench seats (SE/SEL/LTD diffs notwithstanding; mine is an SEL).
How do you like them apples?
I did not take delivery of the off-spec vehicle.
The dlr looked at what other dlrs in the area had for the same option mix but they were already spoken for.
Now they are trying to get Ford/Detroit to sign
off on a seat swap with another Freebie on their
lot with the seat that I should have. The fat
lady is due to sing tomorrow according to expectations....
Can you give any more details when you refer to "other versions" and the time tables, e.g. do you mean next Oct. (2006 model)?, (2007?) or are you talking about changes before that?
And what do you mean by "it's all for the best... "
Unfortunately my Taurus now has 199,000 miles and I do not anticipate keeping it much longer but it has certainly served me well as did the Probe I drove for 245,000 miles. I would like to buy a Ford and thought the Freestyle would be ideal but certain features like stability control cause me to lean toward the Odyssey even though the two vehicles are not competeing for the same market - its just hard to resist all the performance/value the Odyssey offers at its lowest trim level going rate of around $23,100 in my area.
There's times you don't wish to integrate all the expensive toys upon the first release...
A) Another possible gadget that can go wrong, which might lead to a recall, which will give the vehicle negative publicity.
C) Don't wish to push the vehicles pricepoint too high, might give a negative impact.
D) Another gadget that might slow down development time.
Another thing to consider, AdvanceTrac was just implemented on quite a bit of Ford's SUV's, Expy/Explorer, etc. So it's creating a bit of a shortage, and since those vehicles (as with all SUV's) are prone to rolling over, it's priority to supply them first.
So far it depends on the market, and the demographics of the consumer'. Not set time table as to when other versions will be available. But FWD-only version will be available in the next couple of months. AWD was a prority at first mainly because of the winter season.
Also, AWD and CVT are both pricey items to offer on a vehicle, in terms of engineering. The thinking behind offering this at first is, it allows inexpensive versions (FWD/6SpeedAuto) to be released later to allow the vehicle to be financially reachable for some consumer's.
At first, you usually have the "I gotta have one" buyer's which are willing to pay for all the toys and gadgets when a vehicle is first released. As the vehicles ages, you wish to keep it fresh offering updated engines, gadgets, etc. while offering configurations that are finacially suitable for buyer's who wish to buy one, but without all the unnecessary toys.
Although I'm happy to say that the F-150, 500, Freestyle has been selling much more of the higher trim levels, than first allocated. Which proves my point that people are willing to spend more, for a better product. This allows the company to research and implement the Navi/StabiltyControl, ahead of their anticipated expecations. (Not the engine though, for issues I've mentionedin posts in the beginning of the forum's opening)
As it is, what has kept the 500/Freestyle/Montego at a decent price point has been the switch to a flexible production plant. The amount of engineering and quality that has been implemented into this platform rivals that of what I saw with the DEW98 platform (JaguarXJ-Stype/Tbird/LS), and shocked the price point started as low as it is. And it's a shame most won't ever hear of it.
I'm hoping a video/documentary of it is made discussing it's development, engineering, as there's one for the F-150 on the Ford website.
The dealer also called into the factory, to get a *realistic" ship date. But overall, it was frustrating having to wait so long, which apparently has been due to the popularity of the Freestyle.
Is Ford upping the LTD mix? As much as I prefer the colors of the SEL, I'm trending towards the LTD due to SWMBO.
Flexible production is nice but seems to me that Ford doesn't have enough production capacity.
The change has already been made to build more Freestyle, than 500/Montego's, and yes, the higher trim versions since they are selling at a much higher mix than first calculated.