Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

figueroafamily

I agree.

They should narrow their review perspective to the segment the vehicle belongs to.
* Pluses over other segment vehicles.
* Minuses over other segment vehicles.

If they want to make some pointers about engines on X segment, etc., they should be separate.

IMHO, Freebie exceeds expectations by meeting many compromises (seats, space, etc.) that are opposites. That fine balance is its forte'.

Sam

PS - We got Freebie back from the sunroof repair. Shouldn't do it again, but I don't plan to test it.

Funny PS
--Can't find an elephant in a living room Dept.--
The dealer "briefly lost" our Freebie in its own repair facility. (Misplaced it in their parking lot.) Someone had to search the lot, until they found it. And I thought I was a bad when I misplace my keys...

jchan2

sounded quite positive, except for the engine.

avenger1

I will post this to both the 500 and freestyle forums, as they are similar vehicles and potential cars in my future.

After following the freestyle forum for months, I'm surprised no one has done a comparison between the 500/freestyle to the volvo counterparts (s60/v70).

I know they do not compete in terms of luxury and styling (I still believe volvo to be some of the nicest designs), but comparison in terms of utility.

I would like to have a wagon with room and some luxury, and considered a CPO v70 2.5T. The power is similar in terms of HP, but I noticed that the V70 had a higher towing rating. Any thoughts about why? You would think an NA engine would have better towing specs that a turbo (never driven a turbo, can't comment).

Second, I have a fear of turbos over the long haul (too many horror stories about saabs blowing blue smoke after 60K). My fear is that although the volvo would offer more "luxury" in a slightly used v70, I would worry about the mechanics at going to 100K.

The same goes for the 500...the volvo s60/80 are beautiful inside and out, while the 500 is styles more conservatively like the Passat (another car to consider until you hear about the reliability).

Any thoughts comparing the 500 to a CPO volvo s80 and a freestyle to a CPO v70?

If you can get them both for the same price, what are your thoughts? Do the seats fold down in the s80? Gas mileage comparisons? Acceleration concerns? Let's discuss.

GregC

cminchik1

GregC,
I personally don't consider a Volvo to be a dependable car, CPO or not. Safe, yes! Now Ford isn't exactly the most dependable either (past history). So if I were considering a certified previously owned vehicle, I would lean to Lexus, Acura, or Infiniti (my preferences). But let's consider your comparison:
1)Comparable price (CPO V70 to Freestyle)
2)Luggage Capacity: edge to Freestyle
3)People Capacity: edge to Freestyle (comfort especially)
4)Acceleration: edge V70 (although Freestyle not far behind).
5)AWD: a wash.
6)Style: individual preference but I think the Freestyle looks awesome.
7)Luxury: Freestyle Limited has everything but NAV like a fully optioned V70.
So it sounds like personal preference and if you need a "name badge". I personally love this CVT transmission, having driven it in an Audi A4 3.0. That may be the difference. Those are my thoughts.
Chuck

headcase

ANT -

After many weeks of waiting, my Freestyle Limited is finally being built (started today). It just happens I'll be in Chicago Wednesday through Friday on business, and I was wondering if buyers are able to visit the plant.

I'm not looking to pick it at the plant (although I've heard how this happens), but I though it would be *very* cool to see my baby fresh off the assembly line.

cminchik1

GregC,
I personally don't consider a Volvo to be a dependable car, CPO or not. Safe, yes! Now Ford isn't exactly the most dependable either (past history). So if I were considering a certified previously owned vehicle, I would lean to Lexus, Acura, or Infiniti (my preferences). But let's consider your comparison:
1)Comparable price (CPO V70 to Freestyle)
2)Luggage Capacity: edge to Freestyle
3)People Capacity: edge to Freestyle (comfort especially)
4)Acceleration: edge V70 (although Freestyle not far behind).
5)AWD: a wash.
6)Style: individual preference but I think the Freestyle looks awesome.
7)Luxury: Freestyle Limited has everything but NAV like a fully optioned V70.
So it sounds like personal preference and if you need a "name badge". I personally love this CVT transmission, having driven it in an Audi A4 3.0. That may be the difference. Those are my thoughts.
Chuck

ANT14

Currently, I believe only the Rouge Plant is officially holding tours. Not sure if you can just walk to CAP and ask for a personal show/tour though.

figueroafamily

****************
What time of year do the insurance industries publish data? Do you know? (--anotherwagon--)
****************

No, I don't. Based on Volvo ratings & three-row side bags, I doubt anything other than 5 stars.

Sam

ANT14

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=19309

Source: Ford Media

anotherwagon

All the models I've seen have the tan interior. Anyone out there have (or seen) the black? Thoughts?

anotherwagon

Don't forget, premium fuel vs. reg unleaded!

Had two Volvo turbos - replaced them both and heard many more turbo horror stories.

We have had a LOT of Volvos - Still considering another but really would like to see a Ford take its place.

Also, if I was told correctly, the V70 isn't AWD you have to go to XC70 to AWD. Plus all (most) the goodies that came with the Limited Freestyle are in 4 or 5 different option packages in the Volvos.

Then, if you are looking at wagons, there is rear facing bench seat vs. forward facing w/lots of room.

I do agree, the interior looks much nicer....

nedc2

The V70 was available with AWD in the states a couple years ago and it's dtill available with AWD in Canada and probably most other markets.

Had you noticed any reliability difference between the low pressure turbo, as in the V70 2.5T and the higher boost T5 models?

lumber2

V70 AWD virtually invisible if its still available in US. XC70 has taken over. So far our XC has been good enginewise, lousy transmission wise. Volvo having problems with Aisin Warner transmissions thats mated to 5 cylinder. Dealer is great.

subarktika

Yes, I've seen the black interior. A salesman personally ordered a Limited with a black interior. I didn't think I was going to like the faux wood with the black, but it actually looked fine. I've yet to see a vehicle with the pebble leather interior, although I've seen the pebble cloth.

subarktika

I've test driven three Freestyles on snow. We live on a fairly steep hill and was able to take two of them home. One I kept overnight. The only tire slippage was at a very icy intersection and I was "testing" it. The roads were fairly slick on two of the occasions with temps just below freezing and was very pleased with the vehicles' performance. Going down the hill it did just as well in Drive as in Low. We normally put our vehicles in 2nd or 1st going down the hill. The other vehicles that I drive are an Escape with 2 year old studded tires and an Excursion without studs. The Freestyle did better than the Excursion in 4WD and was about equal to the Escape. Anyone looked into getting Blizzaks or studded tires for the Freestyle?

frasierdog

As I understand it, the current 6sp tranny will be swapped for a FORD/GM mfg 6sp tranny in 06 or 07.

Do you think this in-house tranny be equal in terms of reliability to the current design (JAPAN)?

On a different topic, I think I can live and like the 500 with a few tweaks done by me.

1 - Add a soft cover to the center console.
2 - Add footwell, trunk, door, glove box and rear maplights
3 - Add sound proofing to floor, trunk floor, backseat and doors.

I think if I could wait till 07 with the new engine, this would be the way to go.

Mercury should add a Quite Tuning feature like Buick. Perfed seats and headlights just don't cut it. I do like the Zephyr concept.

ANT14

Aisin, which Toyota has a large equity in, has had a few issues with some 5 Speed units they have supplied another manufacturer. Although the 6 Speed version has turned out much better. The Ford/GM 6 Speed tranny is engineered to be much more durable than the Aisin unit, and tuned differently depending upon the model and the various loads it'll carry.

You meant Quiet Steel...Your talking about what debuted on the Ford F-150 to help control unwanted noise ? Some of that is already being used, it's just not advertised as Buick is doing.

The Mercury version of the Freestyle will have improved interior fitments, and will be geared more as a Sports Wagon, than Cross-Over. Stay tuned for the "Meta One" Concept at the next round of Auto Shows in the next month, to give you an idea.

samnoe

Yes, ANT14 is correct. The Buick 'quiet steel' is copied from the Ford F-150. It's just that Buick calls is 'quiet tuning'.

Here is what USAToday writes about the Buick LaCrosse:

"Buick wants quietness as a hallmark, and says it benchmarked the Lexus ES 300. LaCrosse is mainly without annoying sounds, either from the car itself or from the outside leaking in. Sandwich-construction panels known as Quiet Steel, pioneered on the '04 Ford F-150, mute harsh sounds..."

Want to read the entire article? Here:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2004-11-11-bui- - ck-lacrosse_x.htm

Still, according to Motor Trend measurements, the Buick Lacrosse is much quieter than Ford 500/Freestyle. The Ford (Duratec) engine revs louder than the Buick 3.8L or 3.6L engines, and is not as much isolated than buick. Seems that Ford reserves that quietness for the Lincoln version.

lumber2

I can vouch for the Aisin 5sp units having problems. Volvo has had a terrible time with these units, typically not going into gear or going into neutral while accelerating. I spent several months working on this problem with my dealer (xc70 model BTW) and ultimately we replaced the valve body, which was the part I identified as defective in my first message to the dealer. Volvo was about to replace the entire tranny, which they have done on many vehicles.

ANT14

Samnoe,

Yes, the quiet factor is mainly reserved for Lincoln and chances are you will see Ford using much more Quiet Steel. Although, to a certain degree don't expect tomb-like quietness either. Many people like hearing some sort of muffler/exhaust sound under hard acceleration.

Buick is trying to replace the spot where Cadillac was at, therefore chances are you might see much more tomb-like quietness in their vehicles over the Lincoln versions which are aiming for a younger crowd. Then again, with the buying demographics of the typical Buick buyer, can they hear to begin with? heh...

Lumber,

Yes Volvo is one of them. As you stated, the Aisin supplied 5 speed automatics have been giving them issues. NOT on the design itself, but the small little things that are attached to the tranny itself. A few other automaker's have, or will be, stepping up to the plate since it's affecting some other brands as well.

lumber2

Thanks Ant, the car is solid now and the best thing I've ever driven.

Another question for you. The vehicles at my local dealer are mostly in the 12,000 vin range now.Love the colorful sticker they all have on the back glass.

Has the spec stabilized now to include all the fine tuning the first 12-15k had post build?

ANT14

Yes, and there's a large number of vehicles that have yet to be shipped because delivery bottle-necked for a few weeks. Therefore in the next coming weeks you might see a few more out on the road. I have yet to see one out on a public street, did catch a Mustang V6 though.

eemalawyer

I also live in Baltimore and I got mine at just above invoice. You have to shop around, but deals can be had. I've had it for several weeks and I love it -- can't say enough good things. I basically wanted minivan functionality without a minivan look, and AWD for winter driving (the city doesn't plow my street). I think it's the ultimate family vehicle.

cminchik1

eemalawyer,
Just curious where you got yours at just above invoice? I ordered mine from Bob Davidson Ford and felt good with $1250 off sticker. Good Job!
Chuck

anotherwagon

Still looking and keep getting back to the Freebie. We are eligible for Z plan pricing but I have never used this benefit before. From what I understand, we get the Z plan price then any incentives. (If there are any) We are also eligible for military discount. Wouldn't that come after the Z price? Do I have it all wrong?

Thanks,

mgp2

I am confused:

http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/spy_reports/2003/1/detroit- _spy_report/

According to the spy shots (above) the mercury freestyle looks a lot like the freestyle - Is Meta One going to change that fact or is Meta One further out in the future?

What is a good guess to when the Mercury freestyle will hit showrooms - I would like to wait for it or else I may choose a Mazda 6 wagon over a frestyle. My Taurus wagon is at 199,000 miles and I would to upgrade within 6 months.

Is it true what the link says about the mercury freestyle having standard AWD but with the 6 speed transmission instead of the CVT?

ANT14

Mercury's version will be a bit more "Sportswagon" than the Freestyle, and mainly because it's more directive in how the vehicle is marketed. But it's still over a year away.

lumber2

I've read that CVT transmissions have limited torque capacity at this time.
If its close to the top of its torque capacity with the 3.0 Duratec, asssuming the Mercury gets the duratec 35 engine (the timeline before production is similar for both), its going to require a conventional 6 speed transmission.

ANT14

IN the cards, future plans to use a CVT with higher torque capacity. If Batavia isn't able to pump those out yet at that time, because of demand for CVT in other vehicles, Ford can look to the one that is being used in the Nissan Murano which can withstand higher torque loads.

lumber2

Spent some time behind the wheel today. Early model vin ended under 6300. Plenty of get up and go, loved the smoothness of the transmission, its definitely the way to go.
Ride/handling like a xc volvo, not as sharp as a car, much better than a truck. Thought the seat squad was a little short for my 6ft3 frame. Headroom just enough (sunroof).
One major gripe. The view in the inside mirror is filled with the overhead compartment immediately behind it. Its near useless. Dealer told me the DVD makes rear view worse for taller people like me. Looking at one vehicle equipped with the DVD suggests I can believe it.
I really hope that this is something Ford can fix quickly without waiting for the 06 my.

anotherwagon

Still shopping. Looked at the Freestyle again this weekend and the Honda Pilot.

Does anyone know how manufacturers measure the rear leg room distance. Freestyle states 33.3 - Pilot 30.2 - but actual room to me seems like 12 and 8/9. Is this seat back to seat back?

Anyone have 12+ tall kids riding in the back a lot?

THANKS<

magic

I'm interested in the freestyle, but with other vehicles that I was interested in, I would read the problems and solution articles to get valuable info.....I see no such heading for the freestyle and would like to read about some problems people are having with the car..................Also does anyone know more about this Mercury Freestyle mentioned in some other peoples messages.
If it has a bit more power and a better trans, it may be worth waiting for....any info

ANT14

The measurement is from the rear of the cushion, where it meets the bottom cushion. Or roughly, where your hip bone point is at, to the lower seatback of the seat in front. Legroom follows the same principle, but angles downward at an angle (where your knee would be at) to where the upper opening of where the front seats rear shoe room meets... Some people might know this as the place where your stick your CD case-just the rear part of it where people slide their feet under at times.

lumber2

Anotherwagon, since all manufacturers can vary how they measure things like internal dimensions suggest you take the measurements in a consistent fashion yourself. Seat back to the seat back of the next row is meaningful.
I'm also shopping it against the Pilot. Interesting in your opinion of the two.

mgp2

Ford should make stability control available as an option. Recent evidence suggests it is a highly effective safety system. I know this has already been discussed but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

I personally feel that Ford should follow Honda's lead and make safety features like side curtains standard as opposed to options. For example, I recently looked at a couple of Freestyle Limited's on a dealors lot that were priced about $32,000.00 but did not include side airbags. I can't image paying that much money and not getting side airbag protection in this day and age. Many customers will not notice but that only makes a stronger case for why safety features should be standard. I like the Freestyle more than the Pilot but I respect the Honda corporate commitment to the safety of their customers more.

tincup47

Maybe Honda should follow Ford's lead and make side curtain airbags available. While the safety package on the Freestyle is $695 it does include the side curtain airbags for all three rows of seating and the front side thorax bags with rollover sensor. Even with the option, (which is available on all trim levels) the Freestyle will be priced less than a comparably configured Pilot. I can't imagine paying as much as you would for a Pilot and not having that very important safety option available at all. Seems Honda's commitment to safety may not be as great as you imagine.
 I do agree that the stability control should be available.

nedc2

I understand that Honda will be making the side curtain airbags standard, in fact Honda really seems to be taking the lead in making side airbags standard on their cars. I applaud Honda for this, and I don't much like Honda. I really wish that Ford, my hometown company, a company in which I am a stockholder, would be leading in making safety features standard.

So speaking as a Ford partisan:

Please Ford, make side airbags standard in all your vehicles on which they are currently available, make ABS and traction control standard on all vehicles on which they are currently available, make the Advance Track stability control system standard on all vehicle on which it is currently available. Furthermore, commit to make all these safety features standard on the vehicles in your line up as soon as possible when vehicles a redesigned or freshened. Do these things before they are federally mandated, and before all of your competition does so.

ANT14

Certain gadgets will be added in the near future. Stability Control w/ Roll Control for example, needed to be added this year to the SUV's since they are more prone to rolling over. Itself, it's quite numerous units. When the supplier can produce more, then it'll be phased into other vehicles.

NOTE: Ford has the highest number of vehicles that earn highest on NHTSA (5 Stars) and IIHS (BestPicks) crash testing.

lumber2

Tincup: The Pilot's side airbags only cover the first two rows. The Freestyle's airbags all three. I've handled plenty of auto claims in my time and sideairbags will prove themselves excellent at preventing the close head brain injuries that occur when peoples heads strike the side of a vehicle

anotherwagon

lumber2,
Here are my impressions on the Freestyle vs. Pilot so far.

First, if we bought a Freebie we would want the Limited. We are in the Atl market and have only been able to locate one over 70 miles across town. So we've only looked at SELs closer to home. We may venture to the dealer over the holidays but chances are it will be gone. So I haven't seen the interior of the Limited to know if I like it. Hopefully our dealers will start getting some inventory of Limiteds.

I do like the interior materials (not layout) of the Pilot. Although on the Freebie the grey/black appeal to me more than the tan.

Exterior color choices on the Limited are, well limiting. I would pick silver, red or blue but they aren't offered.

We like the look on the Freebie and the way it handles. I am a wagon fan.

My kids (6/12 - boys) like the center console that you can get. Can't get it on the Pilot - just the flip down tray. My 12 year old says the Freebie is "bombdiggity" and wants one today!

The legroom is more in the Freebie - but the seat would move up in both. (Limited for Freebie, I think). Like the shifter on the console vs. the steering column and the 3rd seat belt in the back of the Pilot seems wierd. Also, the side curtains as discussed above is another advantage. For kids, don't have to step up as much in the Freebie. Also the split bench is back is great. Don't think the Pilot has that.

I think the seats are deeper but not sure. Would like to have the option of a navigation system.
Your comment about visibility w/DVD is a little conserning - again would have to see one and see if it was a problem. Although, I don't know if I really want a TV in my car all the time.

Hubby thinks the Pilot drives like a van (yes, I know Odyssey) and the Freebie drives more like a car ( I know) but he thinks the Freebie is sportier. Coming from the Land Rover Disco II, the ride is quiet and I didn't feel too low to the ground. (My mom's Volvo 850 now seems tiny!)The Pilot felt bulkier. We had a nice drive in the Freebie.

Gas mileage is impressive compared to my current 13mpg w/premium only!

I am impressed with the safety features but don't know how they are rated. Also, am hoping for some more non-Ford reviews.

Truth be told, and I know I will get it here, but we would go with the Freestyle in a heart beat if it wasn't Ford.

Now to defend myself! I base that on doing some research that may or may not matter. It is a first year model - makes me nervous. Also, am concerned about depreciation and mtn. over time. I want to keep it a while so depreciation wouldn't matter as much, but can it last 100k+ miles like my many Volvos.

There are no cost of ownership numbers - but based on other Ford models, Honda ranks better there.

Is this really the year of the car, is the quality commitment finally there?

Also, impressions at dealerships, Honda has been helpful and professional.

The local Ford rep was eating and spitting sunflower seeds while talking to my husband. He said he had a seed stuck on his lip the whole time we talked. I know that is not a way to base anything but still...perception. We will try another dealer.

After purchase service - someone told me the Ford service reps are on commission. They also said that at times they would says cars needed repairs that they didn't to make quotas. This is a person who worked in a dealer's service dept a few years ago. Don't know if it still holds true or not. Don't know if Honda service is set up the same way.

The main thing the Pilot has going for it from our standpoint in the fact that it has the space we need and that it has the Honda reputation.

I have also checked some of the postings for Pilot and do realize folks have issues with them. (Which makes me feel better!)

Pricing - we have them at almost exactly the same. I have a drive out price on a Pilot EX w/ Leather and a Z Plan limited Freestyle (never gave me true drive out) and I think the Freebie inched a litte over the Pilot. So for us, pricing is the same.

So for now, still no decision. Thought about sticking w/the Disco until I looked a cost of ownership on that one! Whew!

Sorry to be so lengthy-

anotherwagon

Do the wires for the auto dimming rearview mirror hang out of all of the mirror or was the casing missing on the demo we looked at?

anotherwagon

Freebie vs. Pilot

Towing - in a comparison the Freebie listed more towing capacity than the Pilot. However, no hitches yet. We would need a hitch for bike carrier, etc. no real towing that I know of. But from what I gather, nothing from Ford yet. Pilot already has them.

tincup47

Just to let you know, most auto dealerships regardless of brand pay all of their income generating personnel (Parts sales, Service writers, Technicians, Salespeople, and Management) using a sales incentive plan. It can be straight commision, salary + individual commision, salary + group commision, etc. This is something the manufacturers do not control.

lumber2

Long is good and current family vehicles are the same. I have a D1, and early V70. The latter is slow low to the ground it drives me nuts.

subarktika

Anyone know if the optional leather seats in the SEL are heated? Thanks.

ranger2001xlt

When measuring leg room in the 2nd or third row make sure you have the slider in the 2nd row buckets set at the same position. The SEL does not have the to/fro adjustments of the 2nd row bench seats but the Limited does.

The price of the Honda and the Freestyle comes out close but also consider the longer power train warranty on the Honda. I don't know why American manufacturers Ford and GM are not offering the same 5 year power train as Nissan and Honda. This has to add some value to that vehicle.

I have to mention that dealer service at my closest Ford dealer is top notch.

Depreciation on the Freestyle. I heard that Ford is not selling the 500 or the Freestyle to fleet buyers. These are primarily the rental car companies. They are doing this to keep the residual value of the vehicle up. The three year residual value for the Freestyle is 50% I believe. That is substantially higher than some of their other cars that they do sell to fleet companies.

I would like to ask anybody that has an AWD model in the Appalacian or Rockies states to let us know if their fuel mileage is close to within the EPA guidlines for this vehicle (19-24).

tincup47

Honda has 3/36,000 mile warranty, they do not have a 5 year powertrain warranty.

ottav

I've been on fordvehicles.com, and when I try to choose a FWD Limited Freestyle, it doesn't allow me. Anyone know why?

headcase

If you get a Freestyle with moonroof, the overhead compartment that holds the moonroof switch, cabin light switches, and sunglass container partially blocks the rearview mirror line-of-sight. There is LESS blockage when you get a Freestyle without a moonroof, but it still intrudes a little. But eitherway, we've found it to be "acceptable".

However, the screen for the factory-installed DVD player, when open, entirely blocks your view out the back. Hence, we ordered a completely loaded Limited minus the DVD player, and we will be installing after-market behind-the-headrest screens for the kids (which we like better, since aftermarket screens tend to be brighter and offer more real estate for less $$, and multiple screens allows the kids to choose Playstation vs. a movie).

pnewby

Bought a new Merlot Limited with all options today.
Take delivery Friday. I'll post more later. Bought an early Lincoln LS in '99, and because of that I was hesitant, but decided to take the plunge. AWD and all options