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Comments
Ford already has great sophisticated diesels over in Europe. Possible 2.7L TurboDiesel V6. Currently Ford is working on a 4.5L Turbodiesel V6 with International for the F-150. Again, all depending upon the tighter restrictions, and lower sulfer fuel by 2007.
* Very small paint gaps in the rear left door.
* A vibration noise.
* A dealer-installed reverse sensor.
Nothing of worry. I'm extremely impressed how well they pulled a near perfect "first batch" vehicles.
Yes, my inclination was to wait a year, but Contour (old car) forced my hand. No regrets.
Sam
I'm not knowledgeable on Diesel.
Sam
An article in September states that many of the freestyles and 500's had problems when rolling off the lines....
http://www.blueovalnews.com/2004/cars/fivehundred.quality092804.h- tm
"While the documents detail everything from build costs to assembly concerns, the most troubling area that these documents detail are a high number of quality issues plaguing the D3 vehicles. According to the documents, these early D3s have possibly suffered from one or more of sixty-five (65) quality concerns, from defective platforms to faulty CVT gearbox and paint quality problems. In addition, employees at CAP have been voicing their concerns on the BlueOvalNews message boards since 25 September 2004."
I know Ford recalled all of these vehicles before they hit the showrooms, but do you think they scrapped these vehicles or simply switched the transmissions, etc? Would you worry if you now own one of these "problem" vehicles?
Secondly, the transmission. Do we know who else uses the 6 speed and cvt transmissions in their vehicles, for reliability comparisons? I know they won't use the exact transmission as ford, but just to compare from the same manufacturer. Example...is the Murano CVT from the same maker?
Does any brand use a 4 or 5 speed auto from the same maker?
Lastly, why doesn't ford offer a longer warranty on their vehicles? Even Mazda (ford owned) has a 48/48K warranty. It would go a long way in bringing back their reliability perception. Mitsubishi had to do this after their quality concerns. Is ford too big to be concerned by this perception (ie - they would sell boat loads of cars regardless)?
GregC
If you go back to BlueOvalNews and dig further into their forums, you will see this has been a non-issue since it was first reported. The general concensus seemed to be that the 'repairs' were minor, not that much of a surprise for a new car (and would happen at most manufacturers) and actually good for us consumers they were not simply sending problems onto us. Nothing I read at that site or in other sites caused me to cancel my order for the Freestyle. Now if I could only push up the build date!
Regards-
Frank
I've had hit and miss with first year cars...one was great (I still own at 104K) and one was a total mess (a certain GM sports car no longer made).
I currently have a 2000 Taurus SE which has been sitting in my driveway for 1.5 years because the tranny gave out. I have always loved fords but got burnt big-time. And all my fords needed new transmissions (my father-in-law had his replaced, and the replacement failed within one month...all fords).
The engine is not a concern (I like the Duratec), but transmissions are a concern. Do we have any specs on the CVT and 6 speed? Like oil capacity? I ask this because there have been a rash of transmission problems in Hondas and Nissans because they have been reducing the transmission fluid capicity in order to save money (factored in over 100,00+ vehicles) -every quart reduced is money in their pocket. Unfortunately, this creates more heat/wear.
Also, will this be a "closed system" transmission? My biggest beef with my Taurus was that it needed to be serviced every other year. My 10 year old dodge has a closed system (60K service), and my current suzuki has a closed system (no service until 100K - and it's a 4x4 with a transfer case!). Any ideas?
My ignorance about ford having an open tranny caused the trouble I'm dealing with now (in fact, I don't even trust the 100K service number stated for my new truck).
GregC
The CT 23 used in ford focus in Europe, Audi and other small cars, the CT30 was planned for larger vehicles just like the Freestyle, which has been the intended launch customer for several years.
Personally I think ZF makes some of the toughest units and is used by every manufacturer. I'm pretty confident in their engineering. Now how about that Duratec 35?
Personally, I've had Ford's for years, and never had any transmission problems... Then again, I never had a FWD vehicle from them, I always bought (parents bought as well) RWD and V8's because they are usually built to higher tolerances.
IN the 80's/90's the Taurus'/Windstars were notorious for transmission problems, (same platform actually). And Ironically I do know many who did have them, and never had any tranny problems. Just like me questioning a VW driver when they tell me they never had any issues... IN dis-belief, in awe.
For first year blues, granted the Escape and Focus had their issues. That was from the Jac Nasser era. A few new vehicles have been released recently, with no issues. Including the F-150. Over 1MIL have been built since it's release last year, and no recall. Granted, this doesn't mean one won't come out at some point.
The article you mentioned from BlueOvalNews, you should read their forums and see how the discussion continued. Actualy employees are there discussing the issue, and as I mentioned many posts ago, issues were resolved. This are normal last minute details that are cleared before being shipped. In fact, knowing these vehicles are so important to get right from the started, every vehicle is being reviewed extensively, just as the F-150 did when it debuted.
As for transmissions the 6 Speed unit is beign produced by Aisin, which Toyota owns a majority of. The Mazda6 will also receive this same transmission this year.
As for the CVT, the project was started by ZF, but Ford took over. Now it's Batavia Transmission LLC owned by Ford. Ford has been using CVT's in Europe for awhile now, and so far they haven't had any issues.
If you ask about GM's recent withdraw from CVT's, they used a different belt set-up which wasn't proving reliable. Honestly, GM didn't do enough research and testing, whereas Ford has been working on this for years already.
Granted, I'm not trying to tell you everything will be peachy and just watch tomorrow some sort of recall is issued, BUT overall compared to vehicles being released, I would say this program has been covered with a fine tooth comb just to make sure everything is as perfect as possible. And considering this same procedure was used for the F-150's release, I'd say it should ease some concerns.
BTW....For those asking about placing order's and such... I took a look at some number's today, and there's easily over 35K orders that have been placed. I say pick your favorite idol/talisman/saint and start praying.
The KILO-FREEBIE!
Sorry, 11:00 PM humor (anything's a joke...)
Sam
PS - I hope you guys/gals didn't miss the lunar eclipse.
badda boom/
"In hopes of boosting car sales and turning its entire work force into salespeople, Ford is letting workers and retirees hand out more discounts to friends."
Ford relaxes discount rules (Courier-Journal)
Steve, Host
Back to the specifics to the trannies...does anyone who has access to the owners manuals able to check and see the fluid capacity of both the engine and transmission?
I'd like to see if ford changed the fluid capicity (oil) of the duratec from that of the taurus to save costs (you'd think it would be greater, as the 500/freestyle is larger).
Second I'd like to see what kind of maint. level the manual states for the tranny...30K, 60K, 100K?
Would be nice to know for both the cvt and 6sp.
Lastly, is the belt used in the CVT a chain or belt? Any possibility of needing the belt changed as years go by (a'la belt VS chain discussions for timing chains).
Sorry for all of the technical/engineering questions, just a concerned future buyer.
GregC
From what i've heard, the belt is a chain (there is a picture in the freestyle literature.)
mike
Seriously, why do all the dealers order all their freestyles (SEL & Limited) with Moonroofs (At least 95%, but the other 5% don't have the safety package)? I am 6'2" and it is not comfortable to sit with a moonroof without reclining significantly.
Anyway, I find it hard to believe that I can't find a Limited Freestyle with the Safety Package and no moonroof. These are my only requirements. My wife would also like the Pebble interior and either the Green, Red or Blue, but all other options are ok whether on or not.
Sorry, venting here, but would appreciate any suggestions other than cutting off my head so I have more head room.
I was shopping for a Montego and also had no luck finding one without a moonroof AND with the safety package. I had to order one:( I would suggest sending a polite but firm letter to Bill Ford, and cc copies to other relevant entities at Ford, e.g. Nick Scheele, Jim Padilla, Martin Collins, etc. arguing that if Ford want's their purported safety commitment to be taken seriously, that side airbags, ABS, and othe safety equipment be made standard. Follow Honda's lead on this, but I wish, as a stockholder that they would have taken the lead. Also, keep kvetching in foums, to your dealer salespeople, etc. If they get tired of the complaints maybe they'll do something.
Before you make your calculations, recall a CVT is a very different animal to a n-gear transmission.
CVT Oil is 10 quarts.
Oil & Filter changes at 60K, 120K, & 150K.
Sam
* SELs are 45% w/Safety, 30% with Moonroof.
* LIMs are 60% w/Safety, 50% with Moonroof.
* SEs don't have Moonroofs, and 20% have Safety & Security.
Of course, dealers do whatever increases profits, like dealer (vs. factory) installed reverse sensors.
Sam
Steve, Host
Usually when a vehicle is released 500, 300, etc. The upper level trims are what most dealer's want because they figure, "Hmm it's a new vehicle, people are willing to pay more because it's all we have available".
Plus the 500 has been selling quite well, in higher Limited, and SEL trims, with CVT/AWD. A higher take rate for the more expensive versions than they have anticipated.
Same issue is going on with the F-150, the take rate for the higher trim level is roughly 48-52%, that's a good 10%+ more than the earlier version. Which brings another point, people ARE willing to pay a premium for a better product, just have to make sure you offer it to them.
I agree with ANT's comments. It is a new car and no one will question one with all the features. I look forward to when the orders more closely match the marketing mix.
That gives me an idea, provided you're near a state line. Check for the zip codes of county seats or towns across the border. Enter it at the beginning of the website's search process. (Fordvehicles.com asks your zip right after you select the vehicle you want.) That will let you scan through area vehicles.
Once you spot one of your liking, you could call Mr./Ms. Local Dealer and ask them to barter. Of course, "allow me to help you" words will soften things for you.
Otherwise, you may have a family day trip ahead of you
Sam
I have numerous Volvo Wagons and am intrigued with the Freestyle. I have a Land Rover Disco (ugh) that will be replaced. What a nightmare - hate to mess up again.
Anyone else chose this over the Volvo Wagon?
Two Volvo wagons and a Discovery. The latter is my off road beater truck and has been very reliable.
Freestyle's greater length without apparent bulk, three rows of seats, better economy interest me more than the short xc90 or the expedition type of vehicle. Its a candidate to replace a 98 Volvo wagon if I like it in the metal. Others include Pilot/MDX
Taking a look see this weekend we shall see.
running Volvo 240 wagons since '93. My Freebie is
still on order, but close inspection and test driving indicates that it should be a worthy replacement for our beater wagon. I've been on the lookout for a non-SUV replacement for one of
our 240 wagons for years and didn't want the 'too high' ground clearance, bad gas mileage, and dinky interior space for stuff of the post 240 wagons.
In case you didn't see Freebie (no longer at Warnock's),
http://community.webshots.com/user/figuesam
It's a very confidence-inspiring vehicle. Treats the driver real well.
Sam
The accelleration should be similar or better than the sable (I have a 2000 Taurus) because of the 7 extra HP and the transmission being designed to wring the most speed from the engine (and to compensate for the extra weight).
If you don't need the AWD, go woth FWD and save on gas.
could you explain that please? are you referring to suv's that don't have a 3rd row that fold flat?
Take the 5 series wagon versus the bmw x5. The x5 is tall, but only has about 12 inches of space behind the rear seats, while the 5 series wagon is lower but longer behind the seats.
Hopefully I explained myself clearly, it's hard to describe without pictures.
GregC
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
i have a cargo box that i put on the roof rack if i need to.
the 3rd row seating way smaller than an explorer, access to it too.
On the other end of the spectrum, the volvo v70 and passat wagon both have squared off rear ends, which maximizes the space in the back.
GregC
thanks
i'm not sure why it's bad for an suv to have height in the back, but not a wagon.
went to ford website. 'style has 2 more cubic feet of storage behind 3rd row, but it's 10 inches longer in vehicle length and 2 inches higher.
i just think the explorer is a very efficient and practical package. gas mileage won't be as good as a freestyle.
We have ordered a Limited and the dealer has found one as we want it - he hopes to have it by the end of November or early December.
An initial comment from one journalist was "Only Ford's Freestyle looks like what I think of a true crossover: a blend of SUV and wagon with passenger-car attributes."
I'll update the list when the winners are announced December 7th but I think the Freestyle stands a good chance of coming out on top in this review.
Do you mind me asking if you had to pay list?