Ford Freestyle - Taurus X

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Comments

  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Ford recently put together a "Diesel Team" to evaluate the posibilities of Diesels in future applications.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,807
    how about half a 6.0 powerstroke :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Hmmmm not exactly possible. Mainly because a truck classification would have to uphold different certifications.

    Ford already has great sophisticated diesels over in Europe. Possible 2.7L TurboDiesel V6. Currently Ford is working on a 4.5L Turbodiesel V6 with International for the F-150. Again, all depending upon the tighter restrictions, and lower sulfer fuel by 2007.
  • figueroafamilyfigueroafamily Member Posts: 223
    Our Freebie is about 800 miles in, and overall, no blues. Absolutely minor thingies.

    * Very small paint gaps in the rear left door.
    * A vibration noise.
    * A dealer-installed reverse sensor.

    Nothing of worry. I'm extremely impressed how well they pulled a near perfect "first batch" vehicles.

    Yes, my inclination was to wait a year, but Contour (old car) forced my hand. No regrets.

    Sam
  • figueroafamilyfigueroafamily Member Posts: 223
    I would wait for the Fusion's release to see how good a powerplant it'll be. (The Fusion is the Taurus' replacement, supposedly due as "early" 2006.) It'll also be somewhat similar to Freebie's weight and size.

    I'm not knowledgeable on Diesel.

    Sam
  • avenger1avenger1 Member Posts: 90
    I am concerned about first year blues from ford products. Ford is known for having great problems with quality when they make a new product (**cough FOCUS cough**).

    An article in September states that many of the freestyles and 500's had problems when rolling off the lines....

    http://www.blueovalnews.com/2004/cars/fivehundred.quality092804.h- tm

    "While the documents detail everything from build costs to assembly concerns, the most troubling area that these documents detail are a high number of quality issues plaguing the D3 vehicles. According to the documents, these early D3s have possibly suffered from one or more of sixty-five (65) quality concerns, from defective platforms to faulty CVT gearbox and paint quality problems. In addition, employees at CAP have been voicing their concerns on the BlueOvalNews message boards since 25 September 2004."

    I know Ford recalled all of these vehicles before they hit the showrooms, but do you think they scrapped these vehicles or simply switched the transmissions, etc? Would you worry if you now own one of these "problem" vehicles?

    Secondly, the transmission. Do we know who else uses the 6 speed and cvt transmissions in their vehicles, for reliability comparisons? I know they won't use the exact transmission as ford, but just to compare from the same manufacturer. Example...is the Murano CVT from the same maker?

    Does any brand use a 4 or 5 speed auto from the same maker?

    Lastly, why doesn't ford offer a longer warranty on their vehicles? Even Mazda (ford owned) has a 48/48K warranty. It would go a long way in bringing back their reliability perception. Mitsubishi had to do this after their quality concerns. Is ford too big to be concerned by this perception (ie - they would sell boat loads of cars regardless)?

    GregC
  • lumber2lumber2 Member Posts: 184
    Look back at ANTs postings and you'll learn what happened, as Ford engineers did things like reflash the computers post build. Nothing unusual in that, happens even on vehicles that have been on the road for some time.
  • franktfrankt Member Posts: 3
    GregC--
    If you go back to BlueOvalNews and dig further into their forums, you will see this has been a non-issue since it was first reported. The general concensus seemed to be that the 'repairs' were minor, not that much of a surprise for a new car (and would happen at most manufacturers) and actually good for us consumers they were not simply sending problems onto us. Nothing I read at that site or in other sites caused me to cancel my order for the Freestyle. Now if I could only push up the build date!
    Regards-
    Frank
  • avenger1avenger1 Member Posts: 90
    That's good to hear!

    I've had hit and miss with first year cars...one was great (I still own at 104K) and one was a total mess (a certain GM sports car no longer made).

    I currently have a 2000 Taurus SE which has been sitting in my driveway for 1.5 years because the tranny gave out. I have always loved fords but got burnt big-time. And all my fords needed new transmissions (my father-in-law had his replaced, and the replacement failed within one month...all fords).

    The engine is not a concern (I like the Duratec), but transmissions are a concern. Do we have any specs on the CVT and 6 speed? Like oil capacity? I ask this because there have been a rash of transmission problems in Hondas and Nissans because they have been reducing the transmission fluid capicity in order to save money (factored in over 100,00+ vehicles) -every quart reduced is money in their pocket. Unfortunately, this creates more heat/wear.

    Also, will this be a "closed system" transmission? My biggest beef with my Taurus was that it needed to be serviced every other year. My 10 year old dodge has a closed system (60K service), and my current suzuki has a closed system (no service until 100K - and it's a 4x4 with a transfer case!). Any ideas?

    My ignorance about ford having an open tranny caused the trouble I'm dealing with now (in fact, I don't even trust the 100K service number stated for my new truck).

    GregC
  • lumber2lumber2 Member Posts: 184
    The Ford Freestyle Tranny is made by ZF in Germany, at a plant the two companies originally jointly owned. The plant makes two CVT units, in different torque capacities.
    The CT 23 used in ford focus in Europe, Audi and other small cars, the CT30 was planned for larger vehicles just like the Freestyle, which has been the intended launch customer for several years.
    Personally I think ZF makes some of the toughest units and is used by every manufacturer. I'm pretty confident in their engineering. Now how about that Duratec 35?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,807
    is advertising 2k off a freestyle with msrp 28,300.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Avenger,

    Personally, I've had Ford's for years, and never had any transmission problems... Then again, I never had a FWD vehicle from them, I always bought (parents bought as well) RWD and V8's because they are usually built to higher tolerances.

    IN the 80's/90's the Taurus'/Windstars were notorious for transmission problems, (same platform actually). And Ironically I do know many who did have them, and never had any tranny problems. Just like me questioning a VW driver when they tell me they never had any issues... IN dis-belief, in awe.

    For first year blues, granted the Escape and Focus had their issues. That was from the Jac Nasser era. A few new vehicles have been released recently, with no issues. Including the F-150. Over 1MIL have been built since it's release last year, and no recall. Granted, this doesn't mean one won't come out at some point.

    The article you mentioned from BlueOvalNews, you should read their forums and see how the discussion continued. Actualy employees are there discussing the issue, and as I mentioned many posts ago, issues were resolved. This are normal last minute details that are cleared before being shipped. In fact, knowing these vehicles are so important to get right from the started, every vehicle is being reviewed extensively, just as the F-150 did when it debuted.

    As for transmissions the 6 Speed unit is beign produced by Aisin, which Toyota owns a majority of. The Mazda6 will also receive this same transmission this year.

    As for the CVT, the project was started by ZF, but Ford took over. Now it's Batavia Transmission LLC owned by Ford. Ford has been using CVT's in Europe for awhile now, and so far they haven't had any issues.

    If you ask about GM's recent withdraw from CVT's, they used a different belt set-up which wasn't proving reliable. Honestly, GM didn't do enough research and testing, whereas Ford has been working on this for years already.

    Granted, I'm not trying to tell you everything will be peachy and just watch tomorrow some sort of recall is issued, BUT overall compared to vehicles being released, I would say this program has been covered with a fine tooth comb just to make sure everything is as perfect as possible. And considering this same procedure was used for the F-150's release, I'd say it should ease some concerns.

    BTW....For those asking about placing order's and such... I took a look at some number's today, and there's easily over 35K orders that have been placed. I say pick your favorite idol/talisman/saint and start praying.
  • figueroafamilyfigueroafamily Member Posts: 223
    In the tradition of "Mega-bucks", may I suggest a new measure of car introduction success:

    The KILO-FREEBIE! =)

    Sorry, 11:00 PM humor (anything's a joke...)

    Sam

    PS - I hope you guys/gals didn't miss the lunar eclipse.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    What channel was it on?

    badda boom/

    "In hopes of boosting car sales and turning its entire work force into salespeople, Ford is letting workers and retirees hand out more discounts to friends."

    Ford relaxes discount rules (Courier-Journal)

    Steve, Host
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    The CVT is built NOT in Germany, but in Batavia, Ohio, near Cincinnati.
  • lumber2lumber2 Member Posts: 184
    Sorry for brain fart on Batavia. Brain was obviously in Neutral not drive .
  • avenger1avenger1 Member Posts: 90
    good news about the tranny. Sorry if I came off sour, but it's the thought of how much I'm going to need to spend to get it back to spec (on a car I just finished paying off).

    Back to the specifics to the trannies...does anyone who has access to the owners manuals able to check and see the fluid capacity of both the engine and transmission?

    I'd like to see if ford changed the fluid capicity (oil) of the duratec from that of the taurus to save costs (you'd think it would be greater, as the 500/freestyle is larger).

    Second I'd like to see what kind of maint. level the manual states for the tranny...30K, 60K, 100K?

    Would be nice to know for both the cvt and 6sp.

    Lastly, is the belt used in the CVT a chain or belt? Any possibility of needing the belt changed as years go by (a'la belt VS chain discussions for timing chains).

    Sorry for all of the technical/engineering questions, just a concerned future buyer.

    GregC
  • ranger2001xltranger2001xlt Member Posts: 85
    I hope it's not too early to tell, but will the 3.5 liter require premium fuel? (In model year 07) And I don't care about the horsepower number, what is the projected torque?
  • mkoblermkobler Member Posts: 4
    GregC, I think we are in the same boat.

    From what i've heard, the belt is a chain (there is a picture in the freestyle literature.)

    mike
  • yoyo123yoyo123 Member Posts: 33
    Your comment about praying makes me want to cry :-(.
    Seriously, why do all the dealers order all their freestyles (SEL & Limited) with Moonroofs (At least 95%, but the other 5% don't have the safety package)? I am 6'2" and it is not comfortable to sit with a moonroof without reclining significantly.

    Anyway, I find it hard to believe that I can't find a Limited Freestyle with the Safety Package and no moonroof. These are my only requirements. My wife would also like the Pebble interior and either the Green, Red or Blue, but all other options are ok whether on or not.

    Sorry, venting here, but would appreciate any suggestions other than cutting off my head so I have more head room.
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    Amen-

    I was shopping for a Montego and also had no luck finding one without a moonroof AND with the safety package. I had to order one:( I would suggest sending a polite but firm letter to Bill Ford, and cc copies to other relevant entities at Ford, e.g. Nick Scheele, Jim Padilla, Martin Collins, etc. arguing that if Ford want's their purported safety commitment to be taken seriously, that side airbags, ABS, and othe safety equipment be made standard. Follow Honda's lead on this, but I wish, as a stockholder that they would have taken the lead. Also, keep kvetching in foums, to your dealer salespeople, etc. If they get tired of the complaints maybe they'll do something.
  • figueroafamilyfigueroafamily Member Posts: 223
    Courtesy of Freebie's Manual.

    Before you make your calculations, recall a CVT is a very different animal to a n-gear transmission.

    CVT Oil is 10 quarts.

    Oil & Filter changes at 60K, 120K, & 150K.

    Sam
  • figueroafamilyfigueroafamily Member Posts: 223
    According to the Marketing guide, the marketing mix is as follows.

    * SELs are 45% w/Safety, 30% with Moonroof.
    * LIMs are 60% w/Safety, 50% with Moonroof.
    * SEs don't have Moonroofs, and 20% have Safety & Security.

    Of course, dealers do whatever increases profits, like dealer (vs. factory) installed reverse sensors.

    Sam
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Yoyo,

    Usually when a vehicle is released 500, 300, etc. The upper level trims are what most dealer's want because they figure, "Hmm it's a new vehicle, people are willing to pay more because it's all we have available".

    Plus the 500 has been selling quite well, in higher Limited, and SEL trims, with CVT/AWD. A higher take rate for the more expensive versions than they have anticipated.

    Same issue is going on with the F-150, the take rate for the higher trim level is roughly 48-52%, that's a good 10%+ more than the earlier version. Which brings another point, people ARE willing to pay a premium for a better product, just have to make sure you offer it to them.
  • yoyo123yoyo123 Member Posts: 33
    Thanks, Sam. Yeah, I read that too. If that is in fact the ordering mix, I would like to know where all the limiteds w/o moonroofs are going.

    I agree with ANT's comments. It is a new car and no one will question one with all the features. I look forward to when the orders more closely match the marketing mix.
  • figueroafamilyfigueroafamily Member Posts: 223
    One thing I noticed while doing searches for Freebie was that Fordvehicles.com doesn't let you search out-of-state. For example, I couldn't search for NY-side dealers' lots.

    That gives me an idea, provided you're near a state line. Check for the zip codes of county seats or towns across the border. Enter it at the beginning of the website's search process. (Fordvehicles.com asks your zip right after you select the vehicle you want.) That will let you scan through area vehicles.

    Once you spot one of your liking, you could call Mr./Ms. Local Dealer and ask them to barter. Of course, "allow me to help you" words will soften things for you.

    Otherwise, you may have a family day trip ahead of you =).

    Sam
  • anotherwagonanotherwagon Member Posts: 301
    After a quick glance thru previous posting just wondering if those who have the Freebie really like it?
    I have numerous Volvo Wagons and am intrigued with the Freestyle. I have a Land Rover Disco (ugh) that will be replaced. What a nightmare - hate to mess up again.
    Anyone else chose this over the Volvo Wagon?
  • lumber2lumber2 Member Posts: 184
    Anotherwagon, you sound like me.
    Two Volvo wagons and a Discovery. The latter is my off road beater truck and has been very reliable.
    Freestyle's greater length without apparent bulk, three rows of seats, better economy interest me more than the short xc90 or the expedition type of vehicle. Its a candidate to replace a 98 Volvo wagon if I like it in the metal. Others include Pilot/MDX
    Taking a look see this weekend we shall see.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,807
    when i was at the ford dealer over the weekend, an older volvo wagon parked next to me as i was leaving. the guy got out and went right over to some freestyles. people must be looking for a volvo wagon at a ford price.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • mark_in_nhmark_in_nh Member Posts: 11
    About the Volvo to Freebie migration - we've been
    running Volvo 240 wagons since '93. My Freebie is
    still on order, but close inspection and test driving indicates that it should be a worthy replacement for our beater wagon. I've been on the lookout for a non-SUV replacement for one of
    our 240 wagons for years and didn't want the 'too high' ground clearance, bad gas mileage, and dinky interior space for stuff of the post 240 wagons.
  • figueroafamilyfigueroafamily Member Posts: 223
    YES!!!

    In case you didn't see Freebie (no longer at Warnock's),
    http://community.webshots.com/user/figuesam

    It's a very confidence-inspiring vehicle. Treats the driver real well.

    Sam
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    for my wife's car, as it seems smaller than an SUV...waiting for dealer to get some in...with the rear seats down, is the back cargo area large enough for 1 or 2 dogs, say, Lab retriever size, 70-90 lbs???...will there be a flat cage to fit behind the 2nd row seats to confine dogs to rear of vehicle???...assuming 2 adults in front, does the vehicle accelerate well onto the freeway???...my 2000 Sable, with 200HP Duratec, did, indeed accelerate well, is the Freebie as good???...
  • avenger1avenger1 Member Posts: 90
    The freestyle is actually longer than some SUV's, but lower in height, so room should be fine with the third row down. Wagons traditionally have better layouts than SUV's (lots of wasted space in SUV's).

    The accelleration should be similar or better than the sable (I have a 2000 Taurus) because of the 7 extra HP and the transmission being designed to wring the most speed from the engine (and to compensate for the extra weight).

    If you don't need the AWD, go woth FWD and save on gas.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Thanks for the quick response...I meant to add another question to my post (or open a can of worms)...how would the folks on this topic compare the Freestyle to the Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander???...don't want to start a whole 'nuther topic for what may be a few simple similarities and/or differences...
  • mas23mas23 Member Posts: 38
    I was deciding between the Highlander and Freestyle and ultimately chosed the Freestyle. Being eligible for Ford's A Plan certainly helped, but I also liked features such as the theatre-style seating, MP3 stereo, message center w/ compass, and dual zone temp control. Plus the 3rd row is much more usuable here. I was also a bit worry about the potential hestitation problem on the HL.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,807
    (lots of wasted space in SUV's).
    could you explain that please? are you referring to suv's that don't have a 3rd row that fold flat?
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • avenger1avenger1 Member Posts: 90
    As an owner of an suv, I call it wasted space as most suv's are tall but very short behind the second or third row of seats. Most of the cubic inches listed in suv space readings are because they are tall...do you really need 6 inches of air above your head when seated? You can't store anything in that space above your head. Most people wont stack items above the seat level or block the rear window, which makes the extra height useless, but the extra length of a wagon more usefull.

    Take the 5 series wagon versus the bmw x5. The x5 is tall, but only has about 12 inches of space behind the rear seats, while the 5 series wagon is lower but longer behind the seats.

    Hopefully I explained myself clearly, it's hard to describe without pictures.

    GregC
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,538
    that's why minivans are more useful than SUVs. THey tend to have a taller cargo area, so you get more in it without blocking vision or poking up above the seats. Lots of SUVs (probably becasue of the rear driveline) have a much higher load floor.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,807
    i understand what you mean. if the seats are folded down, for carrying certain items the extra height is a benefit.
    i have a cargo box that i put on the roof rack if i need to.
    the 3rd row seating way smaller than an explorer, access to it too.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • avenger1avenger1 Member Posts: 90
    also, suv's mostly have a radical rake to the rear window in order to get away from the boxy look. This also cuts into the usefull space that would be behind the 2nd/3rd row of seats in an SUV. The dodge magnum is raked at such an angle that rear visibility if affected due to a smaller rear window.

    On the other end of the spectrum, the volvo v70 and passat wagon both have squared off rear ends, which maximizes the space in the back.

    GregC
  • lumber2lumber2 Member Posts: 184
    What kind of mpg are users actually getting Please let us know type of roads, awd or FWD
    thanks
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,807
    just my opinion, but the best selling suv's are pretty well squared off in the back.
    i'm not sure why it's bad for an suv to have height in the back, but not a wagon.
    went to ford website. 'style has 2 more cubic feet of storage behind 3rd row, but it's 10 inches longer in vehicle length and 2 inches higher.
    i just think the explorer is a very efficient and practical package. gas mileage won't be as good as a freestyle.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • kcankcan Member Posts: 20
    Freestyles arrived up in Canada about a week ago. I had a look at one today. I thought the vehicle was going to be bigger than it was. I'm 6'1" and there is really no extra space in any sitting position. It is a very efficient package! The one I looked at was a Limited with a sunroof though so I assume that drops the headliner a bit in the front. A beautiful looking package. Loved everything but the price. It was listed at $45+ Canadian with a DVD player. Ouch.
  • lumber2lumber2 Member Posts: 184
    Took a second look at it. Sticker on the window says transmission origin is Germany. All of them do. So is Ford importing these units from Germany until Ohio can get up to speed or what?
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    I think it's that the principle components, primarily the LUK, are made in Germany, os that over 50% of the transmissions value/parts are from Germany, as far as I know they are all assembled in Batavia Ohio.
  • brantybranty Member Posts: 53
    Yes the Freestyles have arrived in Canada. Took a fairly long test drive in a Limited (no salesperson onboard!) and it is a very impressive vehicle - quiet, lots of acceleration and soaks up bumps well. It handles well on the highway and in the city. Great interior. I am 6'2" and found that there is plenty of room for me (even with the sunroof). The seating is very comfortable in the front and in the second row but for a tall person the rear seats are probably only good for shorter trips. The fold flat feature for the seats is great - really impressive space. I am amazed at how much space there is behind the rear seats when they are up (even more than our Mazda MPV that has good space behind the rear seat).
    We have ordered a Limited and the dealer has found one as we want it - he hopes to have it by the end of November or early December.
  • brantybranty Member Posts: 53
    The Freestyle is being reviewed in the "crossover" category by the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada in their annual Car/SUV/Truck of the year awards. The 2005 winners will be announced December 7th. The Freestyle SEL is up against the 2005 Chevrolet Equinox, Hyundai Tuscon, Nissan X-Trail and Subaru Outback (Yah these sound like SUV's but they are all front wheel drives so they would not do well in the off-road tests that the journalists use for SUV's).
    An initial comment from one journalist was "Only Ford's Freestyle looks like what I think of a true crossover: a blend of SUV and wagon with passenger-car attributes."
    I'll update the list when the winners are announced December 7th but I think the Freestyle stands a good chance of coming out on top in this review.
  • kcankcan Member Posts: 20
    The close to 200" length makes a big difference in the room at the back of the vehicle compared to most vehicles which are in the 180's, except for "grand" vans.
    Do you mind me asking if you had to pay list?
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