Questions About Auto Insurance and Accidents

qbrozen

well, i think this comes down to one important point ... who was at fault for the accident? If it was the guy from the dealership, then I agree pretty much with the above post .... they don't NEED to do anything, but they COULD.

If it was another party at fault, then I don't see why the dealership should do a darned thing. I mean, it was the wrong place at the wrong time. Certainly not their fault in any way, so the offending party's insurance needs to take care of you.

euphonium

Need to know:mileage on your car; areas damaged;whose fault;who was ticketed and who is loaning you a car in the meantime;

Assuming dealership's at fault: They have insurance less a deductible which is paid by the employee. This deductible is to encourage the employee to be safe, but it also increases their tendency to lie after the crash. Bottom line: Dealership is to replace your '05 with another new '05, but if no 05's are available, they are to provide you with an 06. The cost difference is offset by any Diminuation of Value should the 05 be repaired.

Assuming dealership NOT at fault: You are at the point of dealing with the adverse insurance company. Bottom line: You demand a new 05 and if they can't come up with one, they will be obligated to replace yours with an 06. There again the Diminuation of Value offsets any amount due having an o6 as a repalcement. The sooner they replace your car the less due on "Loss of Use". Good Luck.

paulhuang

euphonium, I have a few questions regarding your post. If the accident is not the fault of the dealership, then how is the accident different than if the owner was at the wheel when the accident happened?

It seems to me that there would be no difference. In that case, can the owner realistically demand a new vehicle and the at-fault party's insurance company be obligated to provide a new vehicle?

Thank you very much!

euphonium

Right. The owner can and should demand a new vehicle because the damaged one was less than 6 months old, thus still quite new. If repairs are made on the damaged one, the at fault insurance company would, in addition, have to cover "Loss of Use" and many times, rather than paying a high car rental bill, providing a new one is more economical for all concerned. Each case is different and circumstances alter cases.

marsha7

to offer a new car from Honda, you have not stated who was at fault...if the dealer's driver was not at fault, then you only deserve to have your car repaired...period...no different than if you were driving it and somebody hit you...

If the dealer was at fault, they should certainly repair it and maybe give you some nice things...but give you a new car???...why do folks think that everytime someone in the car business causes a wreck, they should replace their car with a brand new one???...I could see them offering you an additional $2-3K discount on a new one, after the usual haggling, but to just offer you a new one is beyond ridiculous...such thoughts go beyond the pale...

lilyowen

I concur 100%

They don't owe you a new car -- the dealership or the liable party (whether one and the same or not.)

marsha7

simple...nobody likes to keep a car that has suffered substantial damage in a wreck, so everybody finds 1000 (ridiculous) reasons why someone should give/buy them a new car...but, as long as cars can be repaired, you don't get another one just because you want it...

Yeah, life just ain't fair, is it???

euphonium

Assume there is a high cost of repair on a very low milege Accord which generates
(1) high cost of car rental
(2) high cost of Diminished Value

It's possible the combination of including the above would be in excess of just replacing the almost total with a new car.

marsha7

Your thinking is good, but I would bet it doesn't win anybody new cars for it...

lilyowen

So basically, Euphonium, you're saying that if a somewhat new car totals then the liable party owes the car owner a brand new vehicle? Keep in mind this vehicle is six months old, not "brand" new by any stretch.

Seems to me that if the DV and the rental exceed the value of the car then the liable party would owe, well, the value of the car.

In addition, DV is not always ... no, rarely is it something that is easily recoverable. I know I've posted on this before, but if the damaged car isn't sold there really isn't a financial loss (until that vehicle is sold.) So unless you live in GA most insurance companies won't even consider DV until you address them with papers detailing the actual amount of loss you sustained.

I'll be the first to admit that it sucks when your car gets wrecked due to no fault of your own, but I'm sure you can see that paying for an '06 when the loss vehicle is an '05 is over-indemnifying -- something a car lot may do for customer service, but nothing that their or any other insurance company will do (unless they and their shareholders are a bunch of idiots.)

euphonium

DV is a measurable value not requiring a sale of the vehicle to ascertain it. Crash history does lower the value of the vehicle. How much it is lower is comparing it's TMV with a like vehicle that has not been smacked. That is the financial loss. It doesn't have to be an incurred loss through a sale.

"Euphonium, you're saying that if a somewhat new car totals then the liable party owes the car owner a brand new vehicle?" That's what you understand, not what I wrote. Reread, slowly, my post again. Long term car rental expense plus Diminished Value can push the loss higher than just replacing the crashed car with a new one.

Following a minor car fire repair you can smell the DV!

lilyowen

Good point on the incurred loss -- though, again, in any state outside GA you will have a ridiculously hard time obtaining any DV -- why, because it has to be an incurred loss and because the loss amount changes as time goes by. Some states don't recognize DV at all.

Any insurance company, if the "long term car rental expense" plus DV pushes the expense of repairing over the ACV of the vehicle will simply total the vehicle, that is because they don't owe more than the car is worth to indemnify the damaged party (barring any injuries and incidentals.) Now, if the vehicle is considered a total by the insurance company, do they owe the damaged party a new car? NO, they owe the ACV, TMV, whatever you kids are calling it these days, i.e., '05 value for an '05, '06 value for an '06 -- see "comp" vehicle.

I'm shocked to see this out of you Euphonium, after your strong comments on deficient loans and that a carrier wouldn't owe for a vehicle owners deficiancies -- now you're positing that they would owe for a new model year??? It just doesn't make ANY sense.

euphonium

"if the "long term car rental expense" plus DV pushes the expense of repairing over the ACV of the vehicle will simply total the vehicle, that is because they don't owe more than the car is worth to indemnify the damaged party."

I see how you are looking at this. You would "total" the repairable car because the DV & rental expense combined exceed the value of the repairable car.

My thinking didn't combine those costs for I was concentrating on repairing the damaged vehicle.

As you note it is difficult to obtain DV in many states, it is almost impossible to collect Sales Tax as well. However, when the vehicle is repaired the insurance will cover the ST.

IMO the adverse carrier should pay on a total, pro rata license fees, Sales Tax, and car rental until settlement.

lilyowen

I agree wholeheartedly ... with possible stipulations on the rental until settlement. I can see that getting out of control real quick.

Kirstie_H

Well, it appears that I totalled my car on Sunday night. (Photos to appear on my CarSpace page later today)
This will be my first claim EVER on any auto insurance, so I'll see how it goes.

The other driver will very likely be found at fault... can I expect my insurance co. to help me make a claim against the other driver's? Also, what's a reasonable time before I should expect an adjuster to call me? I called my company at 9am yesterday, and no one's returned a call yet.

mark156

Kirstie, why don't you tell us what happened? What kind of car do you drive?

PS. sorry to hear about your accident.

Thanks, Mark

qbrozen

its really going to depend on your insurance company.

No, they usually won't help you make a claim. You have 2 choices, file with the offending party's insurance company and hope for the best, or file with your company, pay your deductible, have the car fixed, etc, and allow them the time to go after the offending party's insurance to get their and your money back.

Personally, having been through this a few times, I find it best to file with the other insurance company yourself and not even talk to your own insurance company. Only if the offending party's insurance refuses or starts giving you a hard time should you file with your own company and allow them to go after the other company.

wai

In this case, you should have called the claim department of the other insurance Co. And they will arrange an adjuster to see your damage and ask you to go to one of their garage to estimate the damage, it only takes you two to three days to get the check.

euphonium

Be pro active with the adverse insurance company. First, confirm the other party had insurance. Second, confirm your car is a total. If not a total, ask for an estimate of repair from the body shop of YOUR choice as you are not obligated to patronize another shop who happens to have a repair agreement with insurance companies.

After confirming the adverse at fault driver has insurance, go out and rent a vehicle comparable to yours and advise the rental agency to send the bill to the adverse insurance company. It would be courteous to also tell the company what you are doing. Don't ask the other company about what you want as that can be taken as a sign of weakness. Just be decisive and take action that serves you best, not some adjuster. Be firm & resolute.

marsha7

insurance, since the guy who hit you probably will not, hoping that you don't call his insurance...

You should call them immediately, get a claim number, adjuster's name (there could be 2, one for vehicle damage, and one for bodily injury, if you were injured...we hope not)...then ask them how soon you will hear from the adjuster to come look at your car...by prodding them, you will have a time frame in case they "lose" you and forget to come out, you can call and complain to their supervisor...

I would hesitate to tell them you are uninjured, even if you are not injured...auto accidents have what is called the "latent effect", meaning symptoms will not show up for up to a week...kinda like doing yard work on the first spring Saturday, and waking up on Wednesday with severe leg and back pain...it was "latent" (hidden) until the symptoms finally showed...

Tell them you need to be checked out by a doctor to determine "the extent of your injuries"...if, after a week or two, you still feel fine, then you have no injuries and no bodily injury claim...

But, if you tell them you are not injured, and three days later you have splitting headaches, severe back pain and cannot turn your head, you will have screwed yourself because they have your voice on the recorder saying you have no injuries...we would not have to do this if insurance companies were honest (they know what the latent effect is), but since they exist to screw you, you must use vague terminology to protect yourself until you KNOW you are OK...this, by the way, assumes that you are not complaining of immediate injuries...if you are, what I said is disregarded...

You may also want to check and see what your car is worth...I understand that edmunds.com is a site worth considering... :P :P

Stay on them until they come out and estimate your car...

In Georgia, if your car is repairable, they must pay for a rental car...but if your car is totalled, in essence you are "selling" your car to the insurance, so they are not obligated to rent a car for you...odd...many of them will pay for 3-5 days as a courtesy, so you can drive around and try to buy another car...

And, if your car is totalled, and you owe more than it is worth, I do hope you have GAP insurance...please feel free to see the "Gap Insurance" topic at edmunds.com...I hear it's pretty good and some really great people post comments there...

Bob

Kirstie_H

Thanks, everyone, for your wonderful advice!

It was my Chrysler Town & Country - I was going straight through on a green light, and the other driver was coming the other way and turned left on green without a green arrow. The other driver didn't admit fault, and the police report won't be available for at least a week, maybe more... so, I need to get this moving and I've started to deal with my own insurance company.

Seeing as they haven't paid anything yet and won't for awhile, I may be able to cancel my own claim and go for the other guy's insurance before anyone has to fork over any dough. The other problem is that I did not get insurance info from the other guy - it's on the police report, but it was late at night, I was somewhat shaken, and didn't even think about it.

I do think I'm OK, but I plan to go to a doctor today because my neck/shoulders are still killing me.

And Bob, I wisely purchased my vehicle with a downpayment and at a price that ensures that I do not/did not require GAP insurance, so at least I'm pretty safe there!

marsha7

There is nothing better than being prepared...

If your neck and shoulders hurt, it is usually a "minor" soft tissue injury...but that does not mean that it may not hurt for some time, or require treatment...treatment may be as simple as moist heat or may require something like chiropractic treatment if neck and upper back bones were messed up in the whiplash injury...and, by definition, you suffered a whiplash injury, as the mechanism of injury is that your head and neck are whipped at the moment of impact...it just depends how serious it is...

Do not be surprised if an MD offers you a week of pain pills and muscle relaxers, as they diagnose it as "cervical sprain/strain"...it is amazing how ignorant MDs are when it comes to whiplash injuries...keep me posted, and if you have any questions, feel free to email me...

Bob

patg2

recently involved in accident (not my fault)i have a 2000 chrysler 300M...is it better to go for a "total" or have it fixed...i realize this is dependent on many factors, but GENERALLY speaking, which works out better?

also, how does one make sure things are done right????

thanks so much for any and all comments...pat

qbrozen

personally, i think totalling is always better. A fixed car will never be as good and will never be worth as much as a factory original one.

euphonium

Your wreck is seven years old. Go for the new to drive in the Easter Parade.

omegagen

My wife finally saw the IME. She requested a copy of the report and to our surprise he pretty much agreed with all the other physicians my wife has gone to. He stated that she would probably have pain the rest of life and future surgery could not be ruled out. Also, he stated that she is now suffering from degenerative disc disease at L4-5.

All of which I knew and my poor wife through her constant pain knew what he'd concluded to be factual, yet, we were looking for him to slant whatever he could in the insurance company's favor since they recommended him to her.

We've not heard from the insurance company, but I figure they've only had the report a day or so. Now I guess we'll wait a week before we contact them if they don't contact my wife first.

Although, my wife will probably receive some kind of settlement for pain and suffering it hurts me to my heart to know she'll always be in pain and not be able to do a few things she use to, but maybe someday medical technology will offer her something better than what's out there now...I hope and pray it does.

Be careful out there! It only takes a blink of they before you could be injured or worse...DEAD

C-YA!

Kirstie_H

Yup, I got offered some muscle relaxers, but passed. IMO, that often makes the whole situation worse unless you're in agony.

Got a call from the adjustors yesterday - $19K estimate to fix a car worth $17K NADA retail. I'm kind of impressed with the amount of destruction

They offered me the NADA retail, and I'm quite happy to take that. When I was talking trade-in at dealerships, I didn't get an offer close to that, so all worked out for the best in the end.

mikefm58

Do they also pay you sales tax on top of the $17K in your state?

euphonium

Good question re: Sales Tax.

Did they pro rate the unused license plate fee?

Muscle relaxants are helpful unless you're a Don Juan.

smoothdave1

Okay, my fiancee's brand new 2006 Camry was recently rear ended while at a stop light by a 19 year old in a 1998 Dodge Caravan who had swerved over into her lane to try and run a red light. Anyway, the car sustained some major rear end damage(about $3000 worth). Anyway, the car has been at the body shop for 3 weeks now. Anyway, I spoke to the body shop and they told me that the car had frame damage but they were able to "fix it". Granted, this is a a Toyota dealer who is fixing her car. However, we're worried about the car and the bent frame as the vehicle only had 1400 miles on it. Should we insist that we get a new car? The other driver was at fault (as noted on the police report) and was issued a citation. My fiancee had to go to the emergency room and has been visiting a chiro for a few weeks now. Please post and let me know what we're able to do!!!

Any ideas or suggestions????

mark156

kirstie, good for you that the van is going to be totalled. When I saw the pictures, I actually was thinking that it wouldn't be totalled. Glad I kept my thoughts to myself.

Sometimes, the damage makes it look worse than it is. Yours was not the case!

At first, I was thinking that all you really were going to need was a little can of spray-on hood straightener, a new front fender, duck tape a on a couple of flashlights, an alignment, a little bondo-wando and you would be ready to go for $2,500 ! :P

Let us know what you decided to purchase!

Mark156

euphonium

The car is repairable and that cost is forthcoming. Ask the dealer how much in addition to the repair cost will he take to provide a like kind and quality Camry. (The idea is to trade in the damaged car with the insurance repair check plus ?) His figure is what you want from the adverse insurance company. IMO, 1400 miles is still a new vehicle so depreciation should be negligible. Why should you be stuck with a "straightened frame" car that goes down the road like a dog walks?

smoothdave1

The Toyota dealer has repaired the Camry and I am scheduled to pick it up in the morning. Should I still inquire about how much more it would be for a new 06/07 Camry? Would the insurance company go for this? What risks do I have if I keep this car with a "repaired frame"?

I plan to have the dealer put the car up on the rack to show us what was done. My concern, though, is that it now has a repaired frame that still may be bent and will it drive the same? If I am ever rear ended again, will the Camry be okay, or has the crumple zone met its quota? Please advise!!!

euphonium

That was quick. You now have a repaired Camry. The insurance company has fulfilled their obligation and it is highly doubtful the company would go fir this.

Good idea to rack it up so you can understand what was done. Drive it and see how runs out for you. Can't say about crumple zone quotas so Good Luck.

Kirstie_H

Well, I kind of knew that there was a serious frame problem when I couldn't open any of the doors apart from the front passenger side.

Sales tax - nope. But I only pay tax on the difference between what they gave me for the van and the price of the new vehicle, plus I'm just transferring the license tags, which are good til July 07.

As of last night, I'm the owner of a 2003 Infiniti G35... love it!

smoothdave1

The dealer has had the car for about 3 weeks now. The adjuster initially thought there was about $1500 damage and then the Toyota dealer later found additional damage of about 1400. Anyway, I'm about to hop in the shower and go pick it up. I'll keep you posted on how it rides, etc. Thanks for all your help!!!

qbrozen

well, congrats on the total, kirstie, and congrats on that money! wow! That was about a $10k-$11k trade-in, no?

a minivan to a G35 ... that's a heck of a switch. coupe or sedan? auto or stick?

qbrozen

car sustained some major rear end damage(about $3000 worth)

In this day and age, that is FAR from major. My wife's car recently sustained a light tap to the bumper to the tune of $1k. My volvo was swiped across the fender, requiring a new fender, front bumper cover, and removing a scratch from the wheel ... nothing structural or mechanical affected ... $2400. All it needed was a little scratch on the hood and it could have easily surpassed $3k. I think you gotta break at least $5k these days to consider it major.

corvette

Enjoy the G35, they have that legendary, smooth Nissan VQ engine!

blac

I was in a accident in Georgia on 1-1-2006, which was not my fault. I was driving a 2005 nissan 350z touring with 7000 miles on it. My crash was a frontal crash, and I was hurt because of the airbag did not deploy on the drivers side. I had a fractured sternum and lost 2 months of work.
The insurance adjuster said my car could be fixed. The bodyshop first estimate was $12500, but they said it would be more as they went into it. The bill now is $20000 and my car is not the car I had. It leaks water, and the driving is nothing like I had. This car is still at the bodyshop.
This adjuster now is playing stupid saying he did not authorize more work to my car. He did me the same way with a rental car. He allowed 17 days to fix it but used up 17 days before he mailed me a check. I am still in this rental that I have paid $1400 to drive, and it is costing me each day still. I am paying my car payment, when will this end. This is now April, and I am ready to go buy me a car and tell this insurance guy to stick this one. I just want to get back to living without all these headaches. I NEED SOME ADVICE! Can I make them total this car that should have been totaled? I do have gap insurance.

Kirstie_H

Yup, I think I could've hoped for $13K on trade-in (it was loaded at least), so I came out well in the deal.

This is my mid-life crisismobile, so I'm gonna enjoy it. Got the sedan, auto - I spend a good portion of my life on the road and am getting ready to spend even more of it in the car, so auto was the only practical choice. Love it! Just off to join the G35 owners group

marsha7

I am a Georgia attorney, and it is my belief that you cannot "force" them to total your car...we have written earlier that for a car to be totaled, the repairs must exceed a percentage of value of the car, anywhere from 75-85%...even at $20K repairs, I am sure that your 350Z was probably $35-40K new, so $20K, while a substantial amount, may not exceed the "total percentage"

As far as the additional "unauthorized" work, check with the body shop...if they were allowed $12K for repairs, and then discovered additional problems, they would call for authorization and would not perform repairs w/o that authorization...their records will show faxes and phone calls for them to receive authorization...

As far as the rental, you are being shafted by a company that operates just within the law...sadly, we in GA do not have a law that forces the liability ins to pay speedily, just that they have to pay...they will often take folks out to the limit and risk screwing up their credit rating...which is why I always recommend that folks pay the $20 per year for their own rental ins on their auto policy, so you can get quicker service when you need it...

You never told me what the company was...Snake Farm, for all of their bad things, calls Enterprise Rental and arranges for a rental car, and they bill SF directly...this is good...

Allstate, OTOH, will pay for your rental...but first, you must arrange the rental, you must pay up front, and send Allstate the bill...they will usually pay you back within 14 days, but that means you are already into two more weeks of rental...if someone does not have a credit card, or someone is on the lower end of the economic scale, they may not have an extra few hundred lying around just for tying it up in a rental car...so, they will often not get the rental, which saves $$$ for Allstate, and, if they cannot reliably get to their job, they may LOSE their job, all because Allstate is within the law, paying for your rental, but making you pay first...we hope to change that in the legislature...

Airbags often do not deploy unless it is a 100% head-on collision...any angle of impact and the sensors are not applied...

If you have any questions about your meds and wages, feel free to ask me...

Bob

patg2

i hope i am not double posting, here goes:

my 2000 chrysler 300M was totaled and i was offered $9100... has 80,000 miles, mechanically sound, 4 new tires...is this a fair price and should i be asking for anything additional...i plan on asking for an increase because of the tires...will i need new plates?
thanks...pat :sick:

lilyowen

There's quite a few factors that go into determining the value of your vehicle ... not the least of which is where you live, condition of vehicle (body-wise), options etc...

I'm not an expert but 9100.00 seems in the ballpark to me. As for the tires, the value for a vehicle is usually determined assuming it has decent tires on it ... betterment may be taken if it does not (as tires are a wear item.) The biggest obstacle you'll run against with asking more for the tires is that "new" tires really don't add any resale value to the vehicle.

Oh, and you'll need to register the new vehicle -- check with your state DMV regarding their process ... it varies by state and you may be able to keep your actual tags.

rogue187

Well, to those who replied to my thread back on pages 155 and 156..
The insurance is NOT going to total out my vehicle.
Their reasoning is that the repairs will cost about $20K and the value of the minivan is $35K..
So they are saving some money..
I told them in no certain terms that if the vehicle does not drive right that they would be paying again to fix the problems.
They claimed that I would have the factory warranty to repair any problems.I told them that the warranty was for factory defects..mind you that due to the accident and repairs that the factory will only cover factory stuff.
I'm still dealing with the insurance to set up something in writing.

Larry

wlbrown9

One thing you might check into... Someone hit my wife's 2004 Envoy before it had 10,000 miles. Ended up taking it to the chain ABRA who had done some previous repairs for us. They seem to do at least a decent job. They are one of the 'prefered' shops for State Farm the other guys insurance. They have a lifetime warranty on repair work they do and would be able to deal directly with the insurance if additional repairs are uncovered. Now if the repair happened to look okay, but you did not think it was driving "right", then the argument point might be "Well, we think it is right, so show us or prove to us what is not right!"

Not sure which insurance you are dealing with, but you might look into who they have a their first line perferred shop if any and what the body shop's policy might be... Might still be 'empty guarantees', but that might be better than nothing.

Good luck on resolving your issues.

Bill

mark156

Roque.... what pages are you talking about (155/156?), this thread only has 83 pages. I was wanting to read your original posts. :confuse:

Thanks, M156

tainted

I had my first car accident on April 18th. I was backing out of my parking spot and my 1999 Saturn SL was hit in the back by a Bronco. The car I share with my mother is totaled, twisted and unsafe to drive. The woman who hit me was speeding or not paying attention, because other witnesses that were behind her saw me, and I had the right away by what the cops told me since I was past the white lines. The woman was out of her vehicle before I realized what had happened and was fine until she started to change her story and was claiming to have whiplash and I am fine.
Now at that time I did not have insurance, not only could I not afford it, but my aunt excluded me from being able to get onto the AAA plan without knowing. I had obtained my mothers permission to drive the vehicle that day as well and the AAA insurance won we spoke to an even a police officer said that was alright an not to worry about it, but now we are hearing that we may have to pay the woman that hit me, even though the police said she was the one totally in fault.
Is it true that I will have to pay her expenses just because I did not have insurance at the time, even though she was the one at fault?

mikefm58

"Usually" if you're backing up and are involved in an accident, you'll pay....unsafe backing. Did the police issue any tickets? If not, you might be OK.

But whoever is the registered owner of the vehicle is also negligent for letting you drive as an uninsured person. Someone like marsha7 can explain the legalities better than I can, but my bet is that the other person and/or their ins co will come after both you and the registered owner.

Ummm, I'm assuming you are NOT the registered owner. If you are, then shame on you for knowingly driving w/o insurance.

bobst

If at all possible, avoid parking spaces that you would have to back out of.

In a shopping center, I will park very far away from the store to find a pull-thru parking space.