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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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It just seems logical to me...you want your suborgated funds back?...that's fine with me, but then let's ante up your half of the legal fees! I know this is not an option, just food for debate. I told my wife if we can't negotiate the suborgation for "pennies on the dollar" we'll just hold the money in an interest-bearing account and pay it back at the VERY last minute.
In our case, my wife was truly injured and will have back trouble throughout her life...I feel she want even come close to being "made whole". I love that broad legal term, their definition of "made whole" vs the injured party's definition won't look anything alike...and here we are stuck between two insurance companies who have more money than God!
Am I bitter??? Yep! And I ain't ashamed to say it!! My wife's injury has placed mega stress on our relationship!When it's all said and done she'll end up with "milk money"...and you want to suborgate??? Please! You'll get it but, not until I say so!!!
C-ya!
Thanks,
Bill H.
Dropping you depends on your insurance record and other factors, but the claim will be paid.
omegagen...after what your wife has been thru, you can see why my posts are oriented around maximizing your settlement thru my various insurance recommendations, assuming your state has them or permits them...with the pain she suffers, you certainly believe that every dollar of compensation is yours, and I would bet you do not feel that you are "greedy" at all, only trying to maximize your just compensation...that is what attorneys do, at least on valid injury cases...and none of us really wants the malinger or the frivolous case...once we detect it, we generally send them to our "friend" down the street and let him/her waste their time on the consult...:):):)
About 7 years ago, I had two "clients" come to my office after an auto accident...they asked what their case was worth...I asked a simple question, were you injured???...they said no...I asked again, is there any part of you that has suffered any pain???...they said no...then your case has NO VALUE and you are wasting my time...then they asked how they were going to recover any "pain and suffering?"...I said, you must EXPERIENCE pain and suffering to be compensated, and you have no injuries so no pain and suffering...
I thought the words actually meant something... pain...and...suffering...but apparently I need to find folks that really do understand the language, and these were Americans...
omegagen again...if you can get them to split legal fees you might be on to something...normally, when we process the subrogation, we het a small legal fee from the insurance over and above the fee we receive from the client...it is legal and ethical, as we are first negotiating for the client independent of any subrogation matters...then, if we must deduct a specified amount from the settlement for subrogation, we are paid a collection fee for retrieving the money for group health...which is why I prefer they have medpay (if possible in your state) because there is no subrogation (not suborgation) for medpay, and the injured party, well, they don't get more settlement monies in the gross settlement, they get more of their settlement monies in the net settlement, as no deduction for subrogation...
Then, 2 years later they are broadsided by some guy running a stop sign, they suffer injuries like your wife did, but now THEIR injuries are not ripping off the insurance, they just want just compensation for their real injuries...now that the shoe is on their foot, where is the money???...why does the guy only have $25K in insurance limits and my meds are $20K???...what do you mean, I should have medpay or uninsured motorists insurance, shouldn't HE have $100K limits???...well Mrs. Smith, what limits do you carry on your car???...well I only have $25K minimum, but shouldn't he have more???...folks think we are parasites on the system until they suffer an injury, then a one billion settlement just ain't enough, because now THEY hurt...when you hurt, your injury is fake and lawyers are scum, when they hurt, now its time for the system to cough up money for them...I never cease to be amazed at the hypocrisy and ignorance of some people, possibly with an IQ slight less than my Labrador
but here is my question, my husband will have been out of work 4 (work) weeks tomorrow, since his truck, trailer & mower were all totaled (he had sold his other mowers in order to purchase this one). we checked into renting a truck, trailer & mower, no luck on renting all three (not for commercial use on the mower). we are about to begin the loss wages portion of the claim; i am not sure how to figure his loss wages beyond the obvious work he has missed out on. the grass doesn't stop growing just because we have an accident, therefore, we are sure that he has probably lost all his clients (how do we know, should we call? that is awkward because he doesn't even think he will go back into lawn maintenance & he can't say i wanted to see if you wanted me to still do your yard.). he just started his business last october & it has taken him 8 months to build up his client base; he cannot rebuild it by the end of summer. don't they owe us for the loss of clients? and how do we figure that? the insurance company said that they normally request a tax return, however, we are a new business & have no history to show them; plus, our accountant filed an extension & we don't even have a tax return yet! but even so, they can't base it on october-december, the first 3 months of operation that happen to be in the slow winter! we were thinking of asking them to reimbuse us for what we would have made through september, but i am sure that they would not agree to that.
please help me, i really don't know what to do. this has been dragging on & the insurance people are usually not kind to me on the phone. i have been experiencing anxiety a lot lately because of having to deal with them day-in & day-out; it is really taking a toll on me (i haven't had anxiety in 3 years until now!). thank you for any advice anyone may have!
When you work for someone else, and lose 3 weeks of work, your supervisor or manager can sign a document certifying that 1) yes, you are employed there, 2) yes, you would have been employed in those weeks, and 3) they would have paid you $500 for each 40 hour week you lost...so, an independent third party can verify that you lost $1500 worth of earnings...
When self employed, all this goes out the window...
1. You cannot prove how many clients you have
2. If the weather was very dry or very wet, you have no way to prove how many lawns you would have mowed
3. If you had worked a full year last year and claimed it on your tax filing, you COULD amortize your eanrings to a weekly average, but you do not have that much time on this job
4. Sadly, you cannot even prove which clients you lost from not mowing their lawns...
Anytime I see roofers, contractors, storekeepers, landscapers, etc, I can never prove any income, and, these are the folks who traditionally get paid in cash and beat the tax system...so, they often show almost no legitimate income all year, which is great when evading taxes, but screws you royally when you are injured, because you can rarely prove any income at all...
Restaurant servers also get hit hard...paid $2.13 per hour plus tips, but they rarely claim tips on their income...the IRS makes an estimate of 8% of gross restaurant sales, but good servers in good restaurants make 20-25% tips, often $500-1000 weekly in a 40 hour week...but all they show is $2.13 hourly (about $85 weekly) plus $100-200 in tips...so, their lost earnings that they can prove may be $100-200 weekly, yet they lost $500-1000 for every week they lost...kinda tough...
I wish you luck with lost earnings, and consider anything you get as quite lucky...
Also, here in GA, a totalled vehicle, if paid quickly, almost never qualifies for loss of use, simply because if it is totalled, it is like selling your car to the insurance company, and you would be w/o a car anyway...loss of use is often paid if your car is being repaired, simply because you are deprived of your car during repair, but they "bought" your car when it is totalled...go figure...
One other thought...if your mower was damaged in the collision, they should repair it or buy another one for you, as anything broken from the collision, mower, trailer, yard tools, chain saws, weed eaters, etc., are also the responsibility of the at fault insurance...
I hope this helps, but I believe you will come out of this feeling like you are the proud winner of the short end of the stick...
Thank You
Chris
If you were previously treating with a neurologist or a chiropractor for, say, migraine headaches, seeing them 1-2 visits monthly, and now you complain of migraine headaches from the accident, it is obvious that the entire problem is not the fault of the collision, so your compensation may be reduced...
Generally, if a condition has not received any treatment in six months, definitely 12 months, then it can be assumed that the collision was the entire cause of the flare-up.
To take this to an extreme, if you have been receiving treatment once monthly for the last 5 years for migraines, and now complain that the injury caused migraines, sure, there will be compensation for the aggravation of a pre-existing condition, but it will be gard to say that the wreck was the entire cause of the problem, when you have been receiving treatment for 5 years previous...
This only affects soft tissue injuries, which cannot be verified by testing, like headaches, back pain, neck pain, you know you have it, but it cannot be objectively proven..
Fractures and lacerations are different because they are visible...you could have broken your arm 5 times in the last 5 years, but if the wreck breaks your arm, there is no question that it was done by the wreck, as x-rays can prove the fracture and prove that it was healed from the previous fracture...
Thank you again
Chris
Another reason to carry all the coverages I recommend, altho I realize that most us of do not have any enemies that intend to run us over...
But, last month, in the little town where I live, some nut case did run over 5 people at a McDonalds, 2 adults and 3 children...one of the children was run over back and forth multiple times, killing him, and witnesses said they saw the driver laughing while he did it...so, you never know who is the nut case out there...for him, the death penalty will not be enough punishment...altho I doubt auto insurance would have much to do with this case...but I mention it because we don't need enemies to hurt us with their vehicles, just idiot nut cases...
Then the umbrella policy cost is $903/yr. Total cost is $2543/yr, not chump change for some of us.
So, first you must go to their max of 100/300 before you can use a 1 mil umbrella...some companies offer their basic as high as 250/500/250, like yours, so most of the premium cost is with the basic, and your 1 mil umbrella actually only insures you for the extra $750K...
Not knowing your state, those premiums are higher than mine, but if you live in an area like NY, NJ, Calif, Chicago, those premiums are probably quite reasonbale, as those folks are accustomed to everything costing 3X "normal"...:):):)
Forgive me, but looking again, your cost is quite reasonable...$2600 for FOUR vehicles is $650 per car per year...that is cheap...after all, if you can afford the four cars one would assume that you could afford $650 per year for each car...and that gives you all the coverage you could reasonably ever need...
If you had 2 cars like I do, then your premium is what mine is, so if 4 cars cost twice as much as 2 cars, that is better than fair...besides, I assume that some of the premium is offset by the contributions from the kids so they can drive their cars...I assume that you are not footing the bill from your wallet so the high-risk kids can drive, so they get the advantage of your umbrella that they could never get on their own...
I pay $2700 for four vehicles (2 drivers) and $250 for the umbrella, with an additional $90 for boat liability. This is for State Farm in Texas, and I was told the umbrella is a little higher than usual because of the farm/ranch policy. So it looks like teenagers add a lot to the cost :surprise:
When you loan your vehicle to someone, you are also loaning your insurance. Not recommended.
The other point here about liability limits, at least as far as I'm concerned, is that I not only want to protect myself but also make sure that if I really hurt someone that they are properly compensated.
In 1990, my 1988 Accord and Acura, combined, had a premium of $4,000 in Michigan, with zero accidents...when I moved to GA, the same limits with half the deductible cost about $1,200 yearly...and the GA folks were complaining that their rates were too high...go figure...
Regardless of cost, just think of what it could cost you if you are underinsured, that is why, to me, whatever it costs is worth it, and you would be glad if you needed the coverage and you actually had it...
If you live under the radar, are an undocumented worker, have a 1975 Chevy van with no insurance, and you have no SS number, then it is a waste to have this insurance as you are not only judgment proof, but it is almost impossible to deport you...
But, if the readers here are like me, exposed to anything anyone might do to me, I have those limits for protection...and remember, things like medpay and UM with a UM umbrella really do protect me in case the wreck is caused by the "worker" described above, as I have no other place to turn for compensation or payment of my med bills...
I was involved in an auto accident on April 4th, 2006. I was side-swiped by a dump truck. I was driving a 2001 Ford Escort when the dump truck driver claims he didn't see me and proceeded to come into my lane. I contacted his insurance and immediately got a rental car. The insurance agency I was dealing with was Scottsdale Insurance out of Scottsdale, AZ. The adjuster came to my house and appraised the vehicle. About a week later, the adjuster declared it totaled. The insurance company said the car was worth around $4200. The only problem was that I owed 4700 on the car, thus leaving $500 left as payoff on the car. Fortunately, I just filed for Ch.7 Bankruptcy and my attorney was able to recall the reafirmation agreement, thus leaving me with nothing left to pay, besides that, I had gap insurance as well. I figured it would be easier if I didn't pay anything. Upon accepting the amount the insurance quoted me, they asked me who the title was with and gave the $4200 to the finance company. Meanwhile, the insurance company sent me a power of attorney that I had to sign to give the insurance company permission to come pick the car up to take it to a salvage yard. I signed the paper and sent it back in. I was also talking to my wife's friends dad and he said I should have got the insurance company to give us more money to buy another vehicle as well. As it is now, we only have one vehicle. My feeling is that since the insurance company and I agreed on a settlement, that I couldn't get anymore money out of them to buy another vehicle. Besides that, I owed more on the car than it was worth. I also asked the insurance claims rep what I would do about another vehicle and he said I was on my own. Is this correct or should I have gotten more money? After the accident happened, I was summoned to court for the accident as a witness. I showed up, but the person at fault didn't show. Is there anything I can do there with the person that hit me? My wife's friends dad also said I should sue the person that hit me and get his company to buy us another vehicle. What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Chris
Mark
In regards to who pays, they pay their ins. but the wife and I pay most of their college. But what difference does it make who pays? They need a car to get to school and their part time job, but just not enough funds for everything. No parenting advice please.
The 18 yr old's ins. premium is almost DOUBLE what the other three policies are COMBINED. He's paying through the nose, and rightly so if I might add. His premium will go down 50% when he goes away to college and the car stays home.
But still $2543/yr (or $400/mo.) is (IMHO) a huge increase. I know what Bob's opinion is on this, but curious what others think. How much insurance does a person NEED? Enough for any conceivable accident? Enough to insure one's assets? My agent recommends the 100/300/100 for someone like myself.
Your wife's friend dad is wrong. The ins. co. isn't liable to buy you another car, just compensate you for the value of your vehicle, which they did.
They should pay for the rental as well as any lost wages. Good luck.
"It is done." :mad:
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I am assuming that you accepted $4200 for the car because, after checking Kelly and NADA, that was the reasonable value for the car...if your car really was worth $6000 and you accepted $4200 that is different, but I am assuming that you were offered fair value...
Assuming that, you were wise to have GAP insurance, because I am sure that when you bought the car you were not contemplating Chapter 7 (I am a bankruptcy lawyer as well as personal injury)...
This guy is under the ignorant misconception that if you owe more on your car than it is currently worth, then the liability insurance is required to make up the difference...he thinks that they should pay what you OWE, not what the car is worth...you need to set him straight before he starts spreading this drivel to other human beings...
Give him an absurd example...if you trade in a car in which you have $5000 negative equity, and make no down paymt on a $25K car, you now have a loan of $30K on a $25K car...six months later, your $25K car is now worth $20K, but your loan is still almost $30K...if your car is totaled by the other guy, does he actually expect them to pay out $30K even tho your car is worth $20K???...if he does, read him the riot act because he may be dangerous to his fellow man...:):):):):)
You are on your own...they have no responsibility to find you another car if they pay you for yours that was totaled...it becomes the functional equivalent of you selling them your car and they paid you, and now you must look for a new car on your own...
As far as the guy not showing up in court, did you check and see if he paid his ticket beforehand???...if he did, it means that he pled guilty, and you just need to ask for a certified copy of his paid ticket, probably around $5.00...if he did not pay, and you and the cop told your story, if he was not there to deny it he should have been declared guilty by the Judge...
If you were injured, depending on whether you are no-fault or fault, you either pursue his insurance or yours for your injuries...if you suffered no injuries, then this point is moot...if you do not suffer pain and suffering, than you do not recover $$$ from his insurance for pain and suffering...since they paid for your car, they have obviously accepted that liability is theirs...but your wifes friends Dad has some screwy ideas about suing folks...I would be REAL careful around him and his opinions as I believe he has dreamworld tendencies...
Did I miss anything???
All you are doing is deciding how much risk you are willing to tolerate for any given amount of money...
If you cause a wreck and someone has $100K in meds and loses an arm, you will wish you had the umbrella because they can get a judgment that can be placed against you, and garnish your paycheck for years if you work for someone else...
If such an incident NEVER happens, and I certainly hope it does not, you will have saved $1000s in premiums over the years...but since we never know if we will slide thru a stop sign on an icy day, run over someone crossing the street and maim/kill them, I believe we should have as much insurance as reasonably possible, and I include a $1 million umbrella policy under the definition of reasonable...I would also think that a $10 miilion umbrella is unreasonable, as even most of the big cases, usually are well covered by a million dollar policy...
If your ins ever had to pay out $4 or 5 hundred thousand dollars, and you only had $100-300K, you would be out many times what those add'l premiums are...
The priorities are yours to set...all an insurance policy is is a calulated risk on what could happen...since injuries costing over $250K in hospital and rehab are not that rare, having a policy of only $100K/$300K is not prudent...one claim could bankrupt you and cause you to lose your house and everything you have worked for...naturally, if you have nothing, own nothing, and live under the local bridge, storing your possessions in a shopping cart stolen from the local supermarket, then you should go uninsured, as you are judgment proof...then, it should be the OTHER guy who I recommend should carry an uninsured motorists umbrella policy of $1 million to compensate him for his injuries caused by another...
It boils down to how much risk you can tolerate for you and your family, and how much are you willing to pay to alleviate that risk by having adequate insurance for the one-in-a-million chance that it could happen to you...
It is always easier NOT to spend the $$$, but if the big claim ever came against you, I would bet that a few thousand dollars each year, in retrospect, would be chump change compared to what an injury payout could cost you...
Just my random thoughts...
High limits of Liability and high deductibles.
Rather than $100 Deductible Collision on a $25,000 vehicle, have $1,000 Deductible and apply the savings on higher limits of Liability.
I have a 16 year old stepson who lives with us but his grandmother is giving him a car which she will put in her son's (the real dad) name. Does the dad or the stepdad cover him on their insurance policy? If it goes by household, meaning I have to insure him (he will pay difference but I AM concerned about liability!), what happens if he in an accident with the car since it is titled in his dad's name? Whose insurance covers it? Does anybody know the answer to this? Thanks
b1boy: truth IS stranger than fiction...I could not think up a scenario like that if I was given a year to pontificate...I would think that the "real" (biological?) father should specifically place him on his policy as a covered driver...but, in the event of a high judgment, could they go after your policy because he lives under your roof???...interesting question...
While I would check with an insurance agent, I would think (and yes, I am guessing) that if you have him listed specifically as an excluded driver on your policies, and Dad has him specifically listed on his policy as a covered driver (I would request from Dad a written proof that the boy is on his policy, and written permission from Dad, notarized, to check Dad's policy at any time to verify that the boy STAYS on his policy, so that Dad can't drop him a month from now...or, demand that Dad's insurance must notify you if the boy is ever removed from the policy or the policy is ever cancelled, so you would know immediately...
my guess would be that if the car is in Dad's name, and the boy is a covered driver on Dad's policy but an excluded driver on yours, I believe the intent would be obvious and that you would not be liable even tho he lives under your roof...having said that, consider asking your agent to research it, because your state may have had a case like that before and a court decision was already made on the issue...
Not here in Florida. Why do you think OJ moved here? He lives in a multi-million dollar home in Miami. Your primary residence can't be touched in a bankruptcy. I know retirement accounts are exempt as well, but there are limits, not sure what they are. I know there's other assets that are exempt that would make you scratch your head too.
And I do appreciate your advice.
Having said that, a judgment would still hold against until you did file for bankruptcy, so for those who are appalled at the thought of Ch7, it still pays to have adequate insurance...also remember, I had also thought it was a good idea to carry a hreat deal of UM insurance, because if an uninsured motorist ever caused loss of limb to you, you could recover from your UM for catastrophic pain and suffering, while HE blows you out in Ch 7...and the only way you can usually carry sufficient UM is for the basic policy to have those same high limits...
Again, we insure against risk...will you be involved in one of those ultra serious auto accidents with million dollar awards for loss of life or limb???...unlikely, but I believe in the utility of insuring against it, and I recommend same...my sole intent, Mike, is just to make sure that you make an INFORMED decision, so you consciously know what could happen and the risk you take...once you know all the facts that most agents never tell you, then your informed decision is fine with me, including if you want to go totally uninsured altogether...just be informed, that is my "crusade"
b1boy: Your insurance company will want him on your policy if he lives there as there is a chance, however small, that he will drive your vehicles; and, if driving your vehicles your insurance will be primary (thus, they want to rate him on your policy.)
-- In many states you can "exclude" him. If you do this he will not be rated on your policy; however, if he drives your vehicle and gets into a wreck -- in any way shape or form -- even driving a poor pregnant woman to the hospital, your insurance company WILL deny coverage. In some states you cannot "exclude" a driver -- if you live in one of those states you may be stuck with the tab.
So what are my options here? How do I get fairly reimbursed for my damage? The private party value of my car is $1500 and retail value is $2500. The damage is definitely more than $2000-$2500, so the car is most likely a total loss. How much should I accept as a fair reimbursement from the insurance company?
If Nationwide only wants to pay half (which is what they hinted) and Progressive doesn't pay anything, how can I get either one to pay completely?
Thanks for your suggestions in advance !
My suggestion was to talk to both Nationwide and Progressive and try to get them to split it 50-50, same as the amount of fault...as far as how much to accept, all you can do is check Kelly and NADA, make sure all your options are included, and argue the same number to both insurances...if it is worth $2500, that is what you argue...
What if Nationwide pays half and Prog pays nothing???...all you can do is sue the Prog driver for half of the total, and hope that Prog steps in and pays for him (I am assuming you prevail in court)...is this fair and moral???...no...since you are totally innocent and you were hit by two cars, should Prog pay half w/o arguing???...in a perfect world, yes...our system of justice is imperfect, but the number 1 type of lawsuit is when one person sues another (person, company, corporation) for not doing what they should have done...most folks think injury suits make up the majority of suits, and from reading the news you would think so, but most suits are for breach of contract, breach of duty, or just failure to do the right thing, and they seek court remedy to make someone do what they should do...
b1boy...I stand by my previous answer...I would think (and I may be quite wrong on this) that if the car is titled in Dad's name, Dad owns the vehicle, and the insurance policy specifically covers the boy on Dad's policy, and StepDad specifically excludes the boy from his policy (meaning that the boy should not drive ANY vehicle owned by Step dad under StepDad's roof), I would think that StepDad would not have to worry about liability...
Having said that, I would present this situation to StepDad's insurance agent, I am assuming that cars and homeowners are the same, and ask them for a WRITTEN response as to whether or not you may be held liable and whether or not you need coverage...THEN, submit the same query to Dad's insurance and see what they say, and get it in writing...I guess I am thinking that "Owner of car and owner of insurance on car" will trump "but he lives in my household"...drivers are excluded from policies all the time...
Now, for StepDad, if you EVER let him drive one of the cars that you own, and he gets into a wreck, I believe that the "household rule" will apply, even if he is an excluded driver...after all, you can't save money by excluding him as a driver of your vehicles, and then allow him to drive one of your vehicles...the boy cannot exist in a vacuum unless nobody buys any insurance and all of you drive as illegal uninsured motorists...:):):)
Bottom line, your car was parked, you know who hit your car, they pay. The burden of proof otherwise is on them, not you. Go after Nationwide.
When my wife was rear ended by a drunk driver while sitting at a red light and thusly pushed in to the vehicle in front of her, who was also pushed in to the next vehicle, etc. etc. resulting in damage to about 4 or 5 cars, she was named in a lawsuit and had to prove she was rear ended. Sounds ridiculous, but that's the way it went. Things worked out well, no permanent injuries to anyone, the drunk driver was arrested, and the construction company that owned the truck with bad brakes paid for everything.
Step father can sign a specific driver exclusion endorsement excluding the step son from coverage when driving step fathers vehicles. However, there are court cases where the judge ruled the "Driver Exclusion" endorsement can not waive the public's right to be indemnified in case of an at fault accident and has held that the state's minimum coverage Financial Responsibility Law is in force, which negates the Driver Exclusion.
As for the lady, great with child, being driven to the maternity ward, the emergency exclusion would come into effect and grant coverage. The emergency exclusion is an exclusion of an exclusion.