A 12-year old on a joy ride is not the same as teen-agers who regulary drive the vehicle. Don't chance it, get with your insurance company and get properly insured. If they tell you no problem, thanks for letting us know, you should be very happy. If they tell you, thanks and that will be $xxx, then you should be be relieved that you're covered.
You do not want to fight them in court should one of those treen-agers have an accident, especially a serious accident.
BTW: The only association I have with insurance companies is as a policy holder.
What is this "family auto policy" that you speak of? And more importantly, is there not somewhere when you obtain your policy -- be it internet, agency, over the phone, that you have to sign something indicating that you have not given any fraudulant information etc...
I think that there probably is -- I think that when asked of the drivers of age in your household that omiting those would be in violation of the same (even if they are part-time drivers.)
Now, the twelve year old would be covered, I agree (household member, resident relative, etc...) but I would only assure you that he would be covered because he was not intentionally left off the policy in order to obtain better rates.
Where you may be in luck is if you've been insured with the same company for a long time then it would likely be written off as an oversight. But if you just upped with a carrier since at least one of your daughters has turned 16 and driven that vehicle, then you need to let them know (in my opinion.) Also, and off of this really is so very policy dependent, your daughters, without being listed on your policy, may not have coverage in the event that they are driving another person's vehicle -- yes, that vehicle's policy should be primary anyway, but yours would be excess coverage (and potential primary if no others existed -- this can come in handy in a first party situation when the borrowed vehicle has no first party coverage.)
There is a difference between "Named Insured" and members of the household, not spelled out as "Named Insureds". Not being a "Named Insured" may not provide Secondary Liability when driving a borrowed car.
Father and Mother = Named Insureds on the policy.
Daughter has coverage to drive their family cars.
Daughter does NOT have the position to loan same car or allow a friend to drive that car. Emergency situations are excluded from this Exclusion.
Standard Auto Policy Special Auto Policy Broad Form Auto Policy Auto Non Owner Policy = for driver w/o a car or car ins. Family Auto Policy = the broadest providing coverage.
Rating policies enables the carriers to get as much $'s as possible so if you feel good about increasing the coffers of the company unnecessarily, then you wouldn't mind volunteering to pay more income taxes to support the federal government.
The latest rating scam of the industry is using your less than excellent Credit rating to surcharge your insurance. The industry says if you're negligent with your wallet, you are negligent with the wheel. You buy that?
You've got me here -- I'm still unsure, but it just seems to make sense that giving false information with the intent to defraud would probably void the contract.
war·ran·ty /n. ˈwɔrənti, ˈwɒr-; v. ˌwɔrənˈti, ˌwɒr-/ b. (in the law of insurance) a statement or promise, made by the party insured, and included as an essential part of the contract, falsity or nonfulfillment of which renders the policy void. (Dictionary.com -- yes, probably not the most reputable source.)
Beyond this, I'm certainly in no position to debate as you're now citing very state specific information here. I can assure you I have no "family auto policy" in my state. In fact, what you seem to be referring to would likely be specific endorsements from some companies, maybe a seperate policy from others -- it's really impossible to tell. In fact, I think it's even a stretch to guarantee that the father and mother are both "named insureds."
Rating policies assists the insurance companies in getting the correct (see: most) amount of money from the correct people. You see, while I have children, I wouldn't be to keen on my rates being precisely the same as a family of four w/two teenaged daughters if I didn't. I mean, the carriers are still going to make money, they should make it from the people who present the most risk. How this relates to the federal government I fail to see ... or at least I fail to see a pertinent connection.
Moreover, the INDUSTRY doesn't say a whole lot about credit ratings, the statistics appear to say that there is a correlation. Personally, I don't think my carrier should have access to my credit and I think many others, including many in legislation feel the same way (as apparently do you.) This is something that can be nipped in the bud at the beginning, and probably will be.
But let's all be realistic here. You don't think that a dubious rating process (scam) has anything to do with whether it is right or not to omit information regarding a licensed driver in your household.
More precisely, my intention is not to share my opinions on whether it is right or not, only whether I feel that a carrier might be able to deny a claim in such a situation. Trust me, I know of two carriers that do, on a regular basis, deny claims for mis-reps. In fact one of them will do weeks of work attempting to verifiy that you in fact did mis-rep before they will begin to attempt to work a claim for you. Is this right? Probably not. Is it legal? I think the jury's still out on that one -- literally. Does it happen? Absolutely.
My initial post recommended that IF the agency or company asks whether or not youthful operators are in the household, you are obligated to TELL them so. However,
If the companies, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is not fraudulent.
When the company's app for coverage does not ask the birthdate of all children in the household, the company missed an important underwriting fact.
Not offering information on an app,that's not asked for is not misrepresenting. If you are asked, then fess up.
As for Named Insureds - Always include both parents so as to broaden the coverage afforded.
The companies in my state use your credit rating and place you in rating tiers accordingly. Higher your score, the lower your premium.
What has driving skill to do with credit history? It is another measure of personal responsibility attitude. If the applicant has ever spent time in jail or had a Major traffic violation, that is also a responsibility attitude quality.
Because insurance companies can not grow faster than a certain ratio of earned premium to potential losses, they are to be very prudent in examining potential customers. Re insurance treaties come into play in this issue as well.
Thus the industry is constantly looking at all ways to minimize their loss ratio and as a shareholder, that's OK.
To a point, yes. But I've read of horror stories where the elderly, who have no credit rating because they haven't borrowed anything in a long time, have had their rates sky rocket.
When, down the road, the company issues a "Renewal Questionnaire" you can then reveal the youthful operators, but not revealing them will not jeopardize your policy and coverages. If you have two youthful operators and tell them of only one, the company will not just pay for half the claim. They're on it because the company doesn't have your signature on the Driver Exclusion Endorsement.
Fraud that is mentioned in the policy covers a situation where you say you hit a deer when in reality you hit an invisible concrete pillar. Now that's fraud.
I have never read or known about a company who successfully denied a claim because the underwriter didn't know about a youthful operator. Most common is when the step child moves in during the policy period, becomes a resident member of the household and thus is automatically covered.
I just did a cursory search, and found two recent fraud indictments in New Jersey where people failed to report additional drivers on their auto insurance policy. (link - last page). Who knows what the story is behind those two cases.
I'm surprised it's much of an issue since most insurance companies use database services to see if the number of licensed drivers at your address matches the number you declared on your application. It may take them a few months to find out (if they find out) but then they may cancel your insurance or bill you for the premiums you should have been paying. That's not the same as denying a claim though and you'd think the companies would really bird dog this issue so they can collect all the premiums they can. Plus that would probably help lower my premiums!
I read the two cases and it appears the issue is not about coverage, but premiums for the coverages. It will be interesting to see how these two Allstate cases resolve.
It is possible the New Jersey Insurance Code enables Allstate to collect using the audit premium process commonly applied in Commercial Auto policies.
Please track this one, if you are able, and share the results with us. Thank you.
Read the "Answer" portion. Basically, a licensed driver in your household must either be excluded specifically from the policy or be listed as a driver.
discussion is simple...it is an accepted fact (factoid?) that drivers under 21 are higher risk drivers and will almost always raise one's rates...the stereotype of the parent dreading their child turning 16 and driving is legend...
Yet we have someone who does not recognize the need (IMO) to contact their insurance company to inform them of 2 new teen drivers, hoping the "family policy" will be adequate coverage...I feel this is misrepresenting the obvious truth that this family's risk of a wreck have gone up exponentially, yet we are tryintg to find a way to be sure that we do NOT notify our insurance carrier of the obvious factor that would most likely cause a raise in the family rates...
They should be notified, plain and simple...if this "family plan" means that the rates stay the same, more power to you...but if you are wrong, and you do not pay the additional premium, there may be trouble down the road when you go to make a claim...
Remember, if an insurance company feels, for ANY reason, that false or incomplete data was given to them, they can legally hold up the payment of any claim until that situation is resolved...failure to inform them of two teenage drivers, IMO, would constitute major, big-league, major-domo, top-notch, gen-yew-ine, misrepresentation, or at least a failure to disclose the obvious...
Notifying the insurance of two teenage drivers is so obvious, IMO, EVEN A CAVEMAN KNOWS THEY SHOULD DO IT...
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“Drivers under 21 are higher risk and will almost always raise rates.” That is a universal understanding.
However, someone does recognize, & knows by experience, that when the youthful operator is not voluntarily declared to the company, the terms and conditions of the insurance contract are not threatened.
As mentioned earlier, when the company inquires of a youthful operator in the household the Named Insured is then at that time obligated to advise the company all about that youth.
The policy covers all residents of the household unless a resident is specifically excluded by an endorsement signed and agreed to by the named insured.
The fear of “trouble down the road when you go to make a claim” is just that, Fear.
"Remember, if an insurance company feels, for ANY reason, that false or incomplete data was given to them, they can legally hold up the payment of any claim until that situation is resolved...failure to inform them of two teenage drivers, IMO, would constitute major, big-league, major-domo, top-notch, gen-yew-ine, misrepresentation, or at least a failure to disclose the obvious..."
Not offering underwriting information that hasn’t been requested is not misrepresentation. It is not going to "legally hold up the payment of any claim".
There has never been the payment of a claim threatened because the underwriting department was not aware of a driver in the household.
Resorting to labeling another person who disagrees with your opinion as a “Caveman” is disrespectful enabling others to wonder if your argument is really valid.
As a reminder, because I think we've all begun to setup our own parameters around this original question to best suit our argument.
Dswaney wrote: (and has not likely been back since) " I have what may be a stupid question, but I will ask it anyway. I have 2 teen age daughters 19+16 and they both drive. by law do I have to have them on my insurance policy? The vehicles they drive are in my name and insured that way also.I have been told as long as the vehicle's are insured then they are covered. But I have also been told that they are not covered if not on policy. Which is true and which is false."
I guess you can make your own inferences regarding whether he implied he has current insurance, or whether he plans to be re-written -- or whether he has been re-written within the past three years (since his first daughter turned legal.) At any of these points he would have signed a new app, which would have asked him the ages, DL, SSN, etc.. of ALL licensed drivers in the household. (oh, in some states you cannot exclude a driver.)
But that is not the reason I think he should tell them, I think he should tell them because I'm a "true" company underwriter and his higher premiums translate directly into my 100% bonus program. I like to spew my pro-insurance, fill-their-coffers propaganda throughout, so that I may continue to work in my office in -- let's see -- Ohio?
Disclaimer: I do not underwrite anything, other than my children's toys which are constantly broken and shoved into orifices -- and this seems to be a losing proposition.
FIrst off, I do have insurance and more than the state min. on every vehicle. Second, I did notify the insurance of my oldest when she turned 16. They dropped the ball and did not add her. When I went to add my second daughter is when I fould this out. I asked what would have happened if she had an accident and they said it would have been covered reguardless if she was on policy. They then said I would have had to add her then, ( after the fact.) There was no accident this was just a question. So I then asked why I had to pay a big increase on my daughters if they were covered anyway and what was the benifit to paying this extra money? They could not answer then and still have not answered over a week later. I have no problem paying the money, but, I am not going to pay it if I dont have to and still am covered. They get plenty of my money as it is, remember I carry way over the required min.....
It was a reference to the GEICO commericals and making a joke...please DON'T tell me you have no idea of the Geico commercials and the Caveman series...
I stand by my statement...when one has underage drivers, I believe one has the duty to inform the auto insurance company...what would change my statement is if drivers under 21 were statistically equal to all other groups in their accident percentages...since they are not, I believe you are withholding materially pertinent info by not informing your insurance carrier...
Having said that, do as you wish...but my thoughts are unchanged...and, if it is based on fear, I believe my fear-based reasoning is prudent...I see too much crap with the smallest detail when it comes to insurance claims, and I do not consider the failure to inform of two underage drivers a small detail...
I don't know if this has been covered here but a recent experience I had might serve others as well as it did me.
A while ago I had a little fender bender in a parking lot. The other driver backed out of a parking spot and hit the side of my car. It was no big deal and we exchanged info and usually that would be that.
I thought to myself that maybe I should have a police report to show to the other person's insurance so I had the police come and investigate. As a result the other driver was given a ticket.
I felt bad for the other driver. Getting him cited was not my intent. It was just a dumb accident.
What a difference it made dealing with the insurance company! They called me within 12 hours, said they were sorry, assumed full liability and gave me a free rental. I can only assume that the police being there and issuing a ticket convinced the insurance company not to try any games.
I have heard so many horror stories of how people are treated I was dumbfounded when I got treated so well. Next time, call the cops no matter how minor the damage.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I thought the same thing when I got backed into 3 weeks ago in a parking lot. The guy did about $650 worth of damage to my truck. I didn't call the cops and was worried about it, but the guy's insurance company was GREAT! I called them a couple hours after it happened, they got all the info, the adjuster called me at 8 am the next day. They assumed full responsibility and the adjuster came out at noon that day, did the estimate, and cut me a check. I was very impressed.
If the other guy admits to his ins co that he was backing out and it was his fault, what difference would a police report make? Also, not sure about other states, but here in Florida police are not required to write up a report if the accident was not on a public road.
And what if the other guy says that you ran into him? Now it's your word against his. Who will his insurance company believe? In this day and age of people who feel no responsibility for their actions it is better to be safe than sorry.
I'm naturally inclined to trust people but when money is involved some folks have the urge to avoid the consequences of their mistakes.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That's one reason to keep an instant camera in the car-one of the throwaways. Get out and take pictures before you talk to the other driver unless there's injury involved and then the police are coming anyway. Pictures are worth a thousand words...
exactly. i thought if you leave the scene of an accident, it's akin to agreeing to handle the damage between yourselves. without a police report, you're potentially in "hear-say" mode aren't you?
Always get a police report. Just because the guy says when it happens "Hey it was my fault" Does not mean he will maintain that when it is time for the saw bucks to start changing hands.
I pulled out in front of a guy a few years back and when my insurance company did its phone interview with me they asked me 25 different ways if it was his fault and not mine. I finally stopped the lady and said "Hey, I pulled out in front of him, it is my fault, handle it"
Always get a police report. Just because the guy says when it happens "Hey it was my fault" Does not mean he will maintain that when it is time for the saw bucks to start changing hands.
EXACTLY!
And, even to add a bit of a twist to this ... i had a woman run into the back of me about a year ago. Some 17-year-old kid then drove into the back of her. She admitted to the whole thing, etc. We all exchanged info and I failed to call the cops (why i haven't learned by now, i'll never know). Well, she changed her story and blamed the kid for hitting her and pushing her into me. I still got paid, but it wound up being the poor kid's insurance that took on both her and my repair bill. I tried like hell to get his insurance to go after her because of what she said on the scene, but I guess they didn't want to bother.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
thumb is..............ALWAYS GET A POLICE REPORT!!!...you may need it to prove fault, even if you have no damages or injuries...a prime example from my library of worthless experiences shall follow...
Let's see a 2 car accident, nobody's car is damaged and nobody is injured, BUT the other guy was at fault...even if you have no claim to make, at least the police report says he was at fault...why bother, you ask???
Because later he claims that his neck and back were injured in the wreck (no, most pain and injuries are not felt at the scene while the body is numb or in shock) and says YOU are at fault...even if you win, your insurance has to pay to defend you against a frivolous claim...by having the police report designate him as the one at fault, he can never come back at you for "causing his injuries"...
Please stop thinking...please stop pondering if it is worth it...please stop arguing...ALWAYS GET A POLICE REPORT, NO MATTER WHAT...you may never need it for your claim, but it may stop the other guy's fraudulent claim cold...
Whatever reason you can conjure up for NOT calling the police, I will give you many more reasons why it could cost you or your insurance a lot of money, even if you did not cause the collision...
Many Police Reports contain valuable information such as....
A motorcycle officer stops a man for running a red light. The guy is a real jerk and comes running back to the motor officer. The violator demands to know why he is being harassed by the [non-permissible content removed]! So the officer calmly tells him of the red light violation. The "Motorist" instantly goes on a tirade, questioning the officer's ancestry, sexual orientation, etc., in rather explicit terms. The officer, being a professional, takes it all in stride, figuring "battleship mouth and rowboat [non-permissible content removed]".
The tirade goes on without the cop saying anything. When he gets done with writing the citation he puts an "AH" in the lower right corner of the narrative portion of the citation. He then hands it to the "Violator" for his signature.
The guy signs the cite angrily, tearing the paper, and when presented his copy points to the "AH" and demands to know what it stands for. The officer then removes his mirrored sunglasses, gets in the middle of the guy's face and said, "That's so when we go to court, I'll remember you're an [non-permissible content removed]!"
Three months later they are in court. The "Violator" has such a bad record he is about to lose his license and has hired an attorney to represent him.
On the stand the officer testifies to seeing the man run the red light.
Under cross-examination, the defense attorney asks, "Officer, is this a reasonable facsimile of the citation you issued my client?"
Officer responds, "Yes sir, this is the defendant's copy, his signature and mine, same number at the top."
Attorney: "Officer, is there any particular marking or notation on this citation you don't normally make?"
Officer: "Yes sir, in the lower right corner of the narrative there is an 'AH', underlined."
Attorney: "What does the AH stand for, officer?"
Officer? "Aggressive and Hostile, Sir."
Attorney: "Aggressive and hostile?"
Officer: "Yes, Sir?"
Attorney: "Officer, are you sure it doesn't stand for [non-permissible content removed]?"
Officer: "Well, Sir, you know your client better than I do!"
Always get a police report if you don't want to rish the consequences. I am of the opposite feeling, if I can get away with no police report, I rather deal with it off the radar. Makes it much easier in the long run for your wallet.
Don't worry about the kid. He learned that he should not follow other drivers so close and he should not believe what people say - two good lessons that will serve him well for the rest of his life.
The GEICO caveman commercials are classic! I've been told that a TV series will based on upon them. I doubt the series, but enjoy the caveman commercials. I normally hate all commercials!
While I can certainly appreciate not being addicted to the Liberal Mainstream Media, I DO watch Star Trek reruns on Channel G4, and also watch the Food Network, where I see these commercials...those channels, at least at the time I watch them, are free of any political opinions...I do avoid, however, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN and MSNBC..:):):)
I didnt see the insurance/accident section. I posted my accident in the hatchback section. So..it is there. I was hit HARD by a full size crew cab GMC truck,that big of a truck. SHE hit me so hard, she pushed me over 3 lanes. I was NOT the cause of the accident, she turned out in front of me out of a Wal-Greens parking lot when she was 'waved on by someone',as she said. Now,4 days later she and the MAN that is named on the insurance card,wont call State Farm back to start up a claim on his side,or her side,whoever she is...it is HIS truck, and we both have State Farm, and both have 2006 vehicles. But State Farm told me not to try to reach her...I have her cell number and she lives like 5 blocks from me. She SEEMED so nice at the scene, but I called the police, and all she could say was, 'oh God,my insurance is going to go up so high AGAIN!!!!' Think she has done this before? That NEW truck had 5 different colored hit marks on the body..and now my blue paint on the front bumper. She openly admitted she hit me in front of the cop. But here I sit, drivers side all smashed in, and now my body pains are coming on strong! Turns out MY policy has to cover me for 80% of my medical costs,I found out. THEN to get the 20% it doesnt cover,I 'supposedly' will get it back from the other sides insurance policy...if it is this woman or this man. At least there is an active policy. BUT they or he or her, wont call State Farm back and just say,'yes I had an accident and yes I am guilty of it, the cop wrote it down'. So I cant get my car fixed until one of them calls back, preferably HIM, I assume, calls State Farm back and opens a claim...this is what MY side has told me. So my side is waiting for HIS side to call them/him back. And call me and ask me questions to for some reason. The one thing I did wrong, was I stiffened up just a millisecond before she hit me, I grabbed the steering wheel tight,got all stiff, hit the gas pedal hard,to TRY and move further away from what was coming at me,I managed like 1 foot, that probably saved my life..but it still smashed my car! But now because I was so stiff..unlike a drunk ,who is floppy and relaxed, so they never get hurt. I am hurt and have to go to all sorts of doctors and have all sorts of scans and miss work etc...,and it has aggrevated a pre-exsisting long running neck and back pain problem that I have been treated for, for over 3 years! So....I know I am worrying to much, which isnt helping, but if anyone has any advise on what to do...please post. All I know is that SHE hit me, but the truck is covered by some guy...maybe her husband? And I was told that 'her name didnt have to be on the insurance card,so dont worry, the truck is covered and IF he loaned it to her..HE is out of luck'..she hit me and she is guilty, so HE will have to pay for it out of HIS policy. But they are avoiding the State Farm Agent for his side. In Florida..I'm just glad that someone with insurance hit me! THAT is a miracle!! But I just know I'll get screwed somehow...help me not worry. Someone must know something I'm not thinking of. Any advise...please? To calm me down..I want to go over and shake HER and say..CALL the damn agent! Since I dont know where HE lives. IF that wasnt her husbands truck...his name isnt listed on her condo property listing...I looked it up online:)...it is in her name only. THAT is odd. That makes me worry. So...any advise? :sick:
Did you get any info about the person who waved this women out? I don't know about Florida but in NY I understand that such "good samaritians" can be held liable for accidents caused by "wave-on".
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Good advice from the previous post, let YOUR ins co do their job. They know how to handle people who don't respond. You have the accident report that clearly shows fault and the guilty party's ins info.
Take a deep breath and concentrate on what you need to do with your ins co to get healthy again and your vehicle fixed or replaced.
Yep...let the insurance company handle it...Or you could contact a lawyer. The largest advertiser here in Memphis is Cory x xxxxx. Their 'clients' say things like 'the insurance company would not call me back, but Cory got me my money'. I don't really recommend this action in the early stages, but later on if the outcome is not favorable or is really dragging along, then this could help.
One other thought, has the accident report been filed at the police station yet? Wonder if it would help if you could get a copy of that to pass along...might get things moving, then again maybe not.
You both having State Farm makes it a lot easier - your agent will take care of it for you. I was run into 15 years ago and the other party's insurance was dragging their feet until I called my State Farm guy and sicced them on the other ins. company - it worked!
LONG story short. The woman that actually hit me is denying liablity...I dont know what the man who has the insurance policy is saying,I would assume the same thing. SHE says I hit her! That I purposely went from the far right lane to the closer lnae...only two lanes going in my direction,I had the green light,I was going with trafic and SHE was coming out of a parking lot making a turn. Common scense says that I had the right of way to start with...and she has to make sure it is safe to turn...right? I was on the main road...had the green light,was going with traffic,and I was in the lane closer to her to make MY turn onto the next big road...but somehow I picked up my car,purposely went into the lane closer to her...still on MY side...and slammed it into her side door! When it was her front corner bumper that slammed into me! But I hit her. Right?
So..we are all awiting for this police report to be released...hopefully saying that she hit me and the cop saying THAT...he SAID he would be writing that on the report. BUT no one has the report yet. It isnt ready. I even called the cops record dept. today and it isnt ready. So its like I picked up my car and threw it at her. SHE says I hit her door. The repair shop,my dealer, took pictures today and did an estimte,at the other sides request it turns out,they asked my side to get it done...so I did it,but even my body shop manager said I got hit my a bumper...NOT a side door. Or I would have much more damage and it would have broken the windows,etc.... So bascially we have to wait for the police report to say what WE both told the officer and that he wrote down SHE is guilty and openly admitted it to him. THEN the liablity will go to him/her...then she will sing a different tune!!!! So until then I have to sit on my thumb and wait. BUT if God forbid worse came to worse and I HAD to file and get it repaired under MY policy...State Farm just told me that I have an accident free account,so it wont go up in monthly payments. IF somehow the report says either I did it or it comes to no conclusion. BUT this woman or that guy took 5 days to reply to their own agent and file the claim that 'I hit her'. They or him or her was avoiding State Farm...probably repairing her damages! I was going with traffic,I had the green light,I was on the main road..so it doesnt matter if I was on the outside lane or if I was going 20mph or 120mph..SHE was turning onto the main road and didnt look to make sure she had a clear access to turn...so plain facts say she hit me! So if it comes to a 'fight', My side of State Farm has to get off its [non-permissible content removed] and fight for me. I am in the right and I WAS going to be nice...but now I am taking her for evey cent I can to repair my car to pristine condition...and if it costs more than just fixing it back to the way it was...which was perfect anyway..she is paying for the decal kit,that no longer exsists:)...the hub cap cover that no longer is made,I replaced it with a Daewoo one that cost like $50 a cover! She scratched 1 cover,...so she has to buy all 4 to get a set:), etc. I was willing to be nice. But I am in horrible neck and back pain...I cant work..and I am drowning in debt already. My lawyer said to stop helping the 'otherside'. I WAS going to draw a diagram of the accident and send a written statement to MY side, they asked for it. bUT he said not to do it. It could lock me into exactly what I say..and limit my recovery..IF any for my injuries. All I know is 2 doctors so far cant find out why I am in agony..I have a 3rd appointment with a doctor on Monday to get an MRI and x rays to see if my prexsisting condition is worse because of the hit...or if it is 'just' whiplash of a sort. But each day I get worse, I loose work,..and I have nightmares of the accident EVERY night...so I am getting like 2 hrs sleep a night.I keep seeing the accident in my mightmares and I wake up screaming! THAT is not good! So..hopefully on Monday this doctor can find whatever is causing all my pain and fix it. Right now I am just on MILD drugs and it isnt helping. BUT MY policy covers MY medical..80% of it..the other 20% I get back from the other side once it is proven THEY hit me. So as I was told...consider the other side, the enemy...like it isnt another State Farm rep. and just hold on and wait for that report from the cop. And they get a copy and pray that cop wrote down the FACTS and it is found SHE is guilty..then that guy,who the truck belongs to,and the insurance is written to...is liable. And the bit-- that hit me is guilty and liable!!!. Till then. I just have to sit and wait. So it could be 1 more day..or 2 more weeks! However long it takes for the report to get into the Broward county police system. So here I wait. Once I am proved right. I will spit in her face! :mad: And laugh!
My insurance company offers two types: $100/$1000 comprehensive/collision and $500/$500 comprehensive/collision deductables.
Which is a better option? The $100/1000 dollar option is actually $40.00 cheaper per 6months so $80.00 cheaper for 1 yr. The insurance guy was saying people tend to use the comprehensive deductible more so the 100/1000 is a better deal, but most insurances only offer the 500/500 and 500 vs 1000 is a big difference for the collision.
perhaps you need to go to the station and get the report. don't call the records dept. i presume you were given a slip of paper with the police officer's name and a case number on it?
i don't know where you live, but a report should have been completed and filed by the end of the next business day following the accident.
Flaaveo, I'm so sorry to hear about your accident. I can definitely relate to the pain you are feeling right now. I was in an accident on March 26th in my new car with only 5500 miles on it My car has about $16k in damage and I was also injured physically. My advice to you is to: (1) go pick up a copy of the police report yourself (that's what I did...), (2) document EVERYTHING-- from your days you missed from work to doctor's appointments to telephone conversations with your lawyer, state farm, etc. (3) Follow your lawyer's instructions and do EVERYTHING he tells you to. (4) Continue with your doctor's appointments and follow up with physical therapy until you are medically released by the doctor.
It's going to be a long process, but hopefully in the end you will get a good settlement and be compensated for your pain, suffering, and mental anguish!!
Comments
You do not want to fight them in court should one of those treen-agers have an accident, especially a serious accident.
BTW: The only association I have with insurance companies is as a policy holder.
I think that there probably is -- I think that when asked of the drivers of age in your household that omiting those would be in violation of the same (even if they are part-time drivers.)
Now, the twelve year old would be covered, I agree (household member, resident relative, etc...) but I would only assure you that he would be covered because he was not intentionally left off the policy in order to obtain better rates.
Where you may be in luck is if you've been insured with the same company for a long time then it would likely be written off as an oversight. But if you just upped with a carrier since at least one of your daughters has turned 16 and driven that vehicle, then you need to let them know (in my opinion.) Also, and off of this really is so very policy dependent, your daughters, without being listed on your policy, may not have coverage in the event that they are driving another person's vehicle -- yes, that vehicle's policy should be primary anyway, but yours would be excess coverage (and potential primary if no others existed -- this can come in handy in a first party situation when the borrowed vehicle has no first party coverage.)
There is a difference between "Named Insured" and members of the household, not spelled out as "Named Insureds". Not being a "Named Insured" may not provide Secondary Liability when driving a borrowed car.
Father and Mother = Named Insureds on the policy.
Daughter has coverage to drive their family cars.
Daughter does NOT have the position to loan same car or allow a friend to drive that car. Emergency situations are excluded from this Exclusion.
Standard Auto Policy
Special Auto Policy
Broad Form Auto Policy
Auto Non Owner Policy = for driver w/o a car or car ins.
Family Auto Policy = the broadest providing coverage.
Rating policies enables the carriers to get as much $'s as possible so if you feel good about increasing the coffers of the company unnecessarily, then you wouldn't mind volunteering to pay more income taxes to support the federal government.
The latest rating scam of the industry is using your less than excellent Credit rating to surcharge your insurance.
The industry says if you're negligent with your wallet, you are negligent with the wheel. You buy that?
war·ran·ty /n. ˈwɔrənti, ˈwɒr-; v. ˌwɔrənˈti, ˌwɒr-/
b. (in the law of insurance) a statement or promise, made by the party insured, and included as an essential part of the contract, falsity or nonfulfillment of which renders the policy void. (Dictionary.com -- yes, probably not the most reputable source.)
Beyond this, I'm certainly in no position to debate as you're now citing very state specific information here. I can assure you I have no "family auto policy" in my state. In fact, what you seem to be referring to would likely be specific endorsements from some companies, maybe a seperate policy from others -- it's really impossible to tell. In fact, I think it's even a stretch to guarantee that the father and mother are both "named insureds."
Rating policies assists the insurance companies in getting the correct (see: most) amount of money from the correct people. You see, while I have children, I wouldn't be to keen on my rates being precisely the same as a family of four w/two teenaged daughters if I didn't. I mean, the carriers are still going to make money, they should make it from the people who present the most risk. How this relates to the federal government I fail to see ... or at least I fail to see a pertinent connection.
Moreover, the INDUSTRY doesn't say a whole lot about credit ratings, the statistics appear to say that there is a correlation. Personally, I don't think my carrier should have access to my credit and I think many others, including many in legislation feel the same way (as apparently do you.) This is something that can be nipped in the bud at the beginning, and probably will be.
But let's all be realistic here. You don't think that a dubious rating process (scam) has anything to do with whether it is right or not to omit information regarding a licensed driver in your household.
More precisely, my intention is not to share my opinions on whether it is right or not, only whether I feel that a carrier might be able to deny a claim in such a situation. Trust me, I know of two carriers that do, on a regular basis, deny claims for mis-reps. In fact one of them will do weeks of work attempting to verifiy that you in fact did mis-rep before they will begin to attempt to work a claim for you. Is this right? Probably not. Is it legal? I think the jury's still out on that one -- literally. Does it happen? Absolutely.
If the companies, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is not fraudulent.
When the company's app for coverage does not ask the birthdate of all children in the household, the company missed an important underwriting fact.
Not offering information on an app,that's not asked for is not misrepresenting. If you are asked, then fess up.
As for Named Insureds - Always include both parents so as to broaden the coverage afforded.
Do you really want to risk denial of a claim when push comes to shove?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
What has driving skill to do with credit history? It is another measure of personal responsibility attitude. If the applicant has ever spent time in jail or had a Major traffic violation, that is also a responsibility attitude
quality.
Because insurance companies can not grow faster than a certain ratio of earned premium to potential losses, they are to be very prudent in examining potential customers.
Re insurance treaties come into play in this issue as well.
Thus the industry is constantly looking at all ways to minimize their loss ratio and as a shareholder, that's OK.
When, down the road, the company issues a "Renewal Questionnaire" you can then reveal the youthful operators, but not revealing them will not jeopardize your policy and coverages. If you have two youthful operators and tell them of only one, the company will not just pay for half the claim. They're on it because the company doesn't have your signature on the Driver Exclusion Endorsement.
Fraud that is mentioned in the policy covers a situation where you say you hit a deer when in reality you hit an invisible concrete pillar. Now that's fraud.
I have never read or known about a company who successfully denied a claim because the underwriter didn't know about a youthful operator. Most common is when the step child moves in during the policy period, becomes a resident member of the household and thus is automatically covered.
I'm surprised it's much of an issue since most insurance companies use database services to see if the number of licensed drivers at your address matches the number you declared on your application. It may take them a few months to find out (if they find out) but then they may cancel your insurance or bill you for the premiums you should have been paying. That's not the same as denying a claim though and you'd think the companies would really bird dog this issue so they can collect all the premiums they can. Plus that would probably help lower my premiums!
Steve, Host
SUVs & Automotive News
It is possible the New Jersey Insurance Code enables Allstate to collect using the audit premium process commonly applied in Commercial Auto policies.
Please track this one, if you are able, and share the results with us. Thank you.
I just show up here so Bob can yell at me for wanting to drop collision - who knew insurance could be so interesting?
Read the "Answer" portion. Basically, a licensed driver in your household must either be excluded specifically from the policy or be listed as a driver.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Yet we have someone who does not recognize the need (IMO) to contact their insurance company to inform them of 2 new teen drivers, hoping the "family policy" will be adequate coverage...I feel this is misrepresenting the obvious truth that this family's risk of a wreck have gone up exponentially, yet we are tryintg to find a way to be sure that we do NOT notify our insurance carrier of the obvious factor that would most likely cause a raise in the family rates...
They should be notified, plain and simple...if this "family plan" means that the rates stay the same, more power to you...but if you are wrong, and you do not pay the additional premium, there may be trouble down the road when you go to make a claim...
Remember, if an insurance company feels, for ANY reason, that false or incomplete data was given to them, they can legally hold up the payment of any claim until that situation is resolved...failure to inform them of two teenage drivers, IMO, would constitute major, big-league, major-domo, top-notch, gen-yew-ine, misrepresentation, or at least a failure to disclose the obvious...
Notifying the insurance of two teenage drivers is so obvious, IMO, EVEN A CAVEMAN KNOWS THEY SHOULD DO IT...
Call them...today...
ROTFLMAO......How appropriate.....
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However, someone does recognize, & knows by experience, that when the youthful operator is not voluntarily declared to the company, the terms and conditions of the insurance contract are not threatened.
As mentioned earlier, when the company inquires of a youthful operator in the household the Named Insured is then at that time obligated to advise the company all about that youth.
The policy covers all residents of the household unless a resident is specifically excluded by an endorsement signed and agreed to by the named insured.
The fear of “trouble down the road when you go to make a claim” is just that, Fear.
"Remember, if an insurance company feels, for ANY reason, that false or incomplete data was given to them, they can legally hold up the payment of any claim until that situation is resolved...failure to inform them of two teenage drivers, IMO, would constitute major, big-league, major-domo, top-notch, gen-yew-ine, misrepresentation, or at least a failure to disclose the obvious..."
Not offering underwriting information that hasn’t been requested is not misrepresentation. It is not going to "legally hold up the payment of any claim".
There has never been the payment of a claim threatened because the underwriting department was not aware of a driver in the household.
Resorting to labeling another person who disagrees with your opinion as a “Caveman” is disrespectful enabling others to wonder if your argument is really valid.
Dswaney wrote: (and has not likely been back since)
" I have what may be a stupid question, but I will ask it anyway. I have 2 teen age daughters 19+16 and they both drive. by law do I have to have them on my insurance policy? The vehicles they drive are in my name and insured that way also.I have been told as long as the vehicle's are insured then they are covered. But I have also been told that they are not covered if not on policy. Which is true and which is false."
I guess you can make your own inferences regarding whether he implied he has current insurance, or whether he plans to be re-written -- or whether he has been re-written within the past three years (since his first daughter turned legal.) At any of these points he would have signed a new app, which would have asked him the ages, DL, SSN, etc.. of ALL licensed drivers in the household. (oh, in some states you cannot exclude a driver.)
But that is not the reason I think he should tell them, I think he should tell them because I'm a
"true" company underwriter and his higher premiums translate directly into my 100% bonus program. I like to spew my pro-insurance, fill-their-coffers propaganda throughout, so that I may continue to work in my office in -- let's see -- Ohio?
Disclaimer: I do not underwrite anything, other than my children's toys which are constantly broken and shoved into orifices -- and this seems to be a losing proposition.
I stand by my statement...when one has underage drivers, I believe one has the duty to inform the auto insurance company...what would change my statement is if drivers under 21 were statistically equal to all other groups in their accident percentages...since they are not, I believe you are withholding materially pertinent info by not informing your insurance carrier...
Having said that, do as you wish...but my thoughts are unchanged...and, if it is based on fear, I believe my fear-based reasoning is prudent...I see too much crap with the smallest detail when it comes to insurance claims, and I do not consider the failure to inform of two underage drivers a small detail...
A while ago I had a little fender bender in a parking lot. The other driver backed out of a parking spot and hit the side of my car. It was no big deal and we exchanged info and usually that would be that.
I thought to myself that maybe I should have a police report to show to the other person's insurance so I had the police come and investigate. As a result the other driver was given a ticket.
I felt bad for the other driver. Getting him cited was not my intent. It was just a dumb accident.
What a difference it made dealing with the insurance company! They called me within 12 hours, said they were sorry, assumed full liability and gave me a free rental. I can only assume that the police being there and issuing a ticket convinced the insurance company not to try any games.
I have heard so many horror stories of how people are treated I was dumbfounded when I got treated so well. Next time, call the cops no matter how minor the damage.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
And what if the other guy says that you ran into him? Now it's your word against his. Who will his insurance company believe? In this day and age of people who feel no responsibility for their actions it is better to be safe than sorry.
I'm naturally inclined to trust people but when money is involved some folks have the urge to avoid the consequences of their mistakes.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I pulled out in front of a guy a few years back and when my insurance company did its phone interview with me they asked me 25 different ways if it was his fault and not mine. I finally stopped the lady and said "Hey, I pulled out in front of him, it is my fault, handle it"
EXACTLY!
And, even to add a bit of a twist to this ... i had a woman run into the back of me about a year ago. Some 17-year-old kid then drove into the back of her. She admitted to the whole thing, etc. We all exchanged info and I failed to call the cops (why i haven't learned by now, i'll never know). Well, she changed her story and blamed the kid for hitting her and pushing her into me. I still got paid, but it wound up being the poor kid's insurance that took on both her and my repair bill. I tried like hell to get his insurance to go after her because of what she said on the scene, but I guess they didn't want to bother.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Let's see a 2 car accident, nobody's car is damaged and nobody is injured, BUT the other guy was at fault...even if you have no claim to make, at least the police report says he was at fault...why bother, you ask???
Because later he claims that his neck and back were injured in the wreck (no, most pain and injuries are not felt at the scene while the body is numb or in shock) and says YOU are at fault...even if you win, your insurance has to pay to defend you against a frivolous claim...by having the police report designate him as the one at fault, he can never come back at you for "causing his injuries"...
Please stop thinking...please stop pondering if it is worth it...please stop arguing...ALWAYS GET A POLICE REPORT, NO MATTER WHAT...you may never need it for your claim, but it may stop the other guy's fraudulent claim cold...
Whatever reason you can conjure up for NOT calling the police, I will give you many more reasons why it could cost you or your insurance a lot of money, even if you did not cause the collision...
A motorcycle officer stops a man for running a red light. The guy is a real jerk and comes running back to the motor officer. The violator demands to know why he is being harassed by the [non-permissible content removed]! So the officer calmly tells him of the red light violation. The "Motorist" instantly goes on a tirade, questioning the officer's ancestry, sexual orientation, etc., in rather explicit terms. The officer, being a professional, takes it all in stride, figuring "battleship mouth and rowboat [non-permissible content removed]".
The tirade goes on without the cop saying anything. When he gets done with writing the citation he puts an "AH" in the lower right corner of the narrative portion of the citation. He then hands it to the "Violator" for his signature.
The guy signs the cite angrily, tearing the paper, and when presented his copy points to the "AH" and demands to know what it stands for. The officer then removes his mirrored sunglasses, gets in the middle of the guy's face and said, "That's so when we go to court, I'll remember you're an [non-permissible content removed]!"
Three months later they are in court. The "Violator" has such a bad record he is about to lose his license and has hired an attorney to represent him.
On the stand the officer testifies to seeing the man run the red light.
Under cross-examination, the defense attorney asks, "Officer, is this a reasonable facsimile of the citation you issued my client?"
Officer responds, "Yes sir, this is the defendant's copy, his signature and mine, same number at the top."
Attorney: "Officer, is there any particular marking or notation on this citation you don't normally make?"
Officer: "Yes sir, in the lower right corner of the narrative there is an 'AH', underlined."
Attorney: "What does the AH stand for, officer?"
Officer? "Aggressive and Hostile, Sir."
Attorney: "Aggressive and hostile?"
Officer: "Yes, Sir?"
Attorney: "Officer, are you sure it doesn't stand for [non-permissible content removed]?"
Officer: "Well, Sir, you know your client better than I do!"
-mike
So....I know I am worrying to much, which isnt helping, but if anyone has any advise on what to do...please post. All I know is that SHE hit me, but the truck is covered by some guy...maybe her husband? And I was told that 'her name didnt have to be on the insurance card,so dont worry, the truck is covered and IF he loaned it to her..HE is out of luck'..she hit me and she is guilty, so HE will have to pay for it out of HIS policy. But they are avoiding the State Farm Agent for his side. In Florida..I'm just glad that someone with insurance hit me! THAT is a miracle!! But I just know I'll get screwed somehow...help me not worry.
Did you get any info about the person who waved this women out? I don't know about Florida but in NY I understand that such "good samaritians" can be held liable for accidents caused by "wave-on".
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
In this case, just let your insurance agent do his job. If you don't like the results, complain to him.
The other parties will act in their own best interest, not yours. Don't expect anything from them.
Take a deep breath and concentrate on what you need to do with your ins co to get healthy again and your vehicle fixed or replaced.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
One other thought, has the accident report been filed at the police station yet? Wonder if it would help if you could get a copy of that to pass along...might get things moving, then again maybe not.
Good luck anyway.
So..we are all awiting for this police report to be released...hopefully saying that she hit me and the cop saying THAT...he SAID he would be writing that on the report. BUT no one has the report yet. It isnt ready. I even called the cops record dept. today and it isnt ready. So its like I picked up my car and threw it at her. SHE says I hit her door. The repair shop,my dealer, took pictures today and did an estimte,at the other sides request it turns out,they asked my side to get it done...so I did it,but even my body shop manager said I got hit my a bumper...NOT a side door. Or I would have much more damage and it would have broken the windows,etc.... So bascially we have to wait for the police report to say what WE both told the officer and that he wrote down SHE is guilty and openly admitted it to him. THEN the liablity will go to him/her...then she will sing a different tune!!!! So until then I have to sit on my thumb and wait. BUT if God forbid worse came to worse and I HAD to file and get it repaired under MY policy...State Farm just told me that I have an accident free account,so it wont go up in monthly payments. IF somehow the report says either I did it or it comes to no conclusion. BUT this woman or that guy took 5 days to reply to their own agent and file the claim that 'I hit her'. They or him or her was avoiding State Farm...probably repairing her damages! I was going with traffic,I had the green light,I was on the main road..so it doesnt matter if I was on the outside lane or if I was going 20mph or 120mph..SHE was turning onto the main road and didnt look to make sure she had a clear access to turn...so plain facts say she hit me! So if it comes to a 'fight', My side of State Farm has to get off its [non-permissible content removed] and fight for me. I am in the right and I WAS going to be nice...but now I am taking her for evey cent I can to repair my car to pristine condition...and if it costs more than just fixing it back to the way it was...which was perfect anyway..she is paying for the decal kit,that no longer exsists:)...the hub cap cover that no longer is made,I replaced it with a Daewoo one that cost like $50 a cover! She scratched 1 cover,...so she has to buy all 4 to get a set:), etc. I was willing to be nice. But I am in horrible neck and back pain...I cant work..and I am drowning in debt already. My lawyer said to stop helping the 'otherside'. I WAS going to draw a diagram of the accident and send a written statement to MY side, they asked for it. bUT he said not to do it. It could lock me into exactly what I say..and limit my recovery..IF any for my injuries. All I know is 2 doctors so far cant find out why I am in agony..I have a 3rd appointment with a doctor on Monday to get an MRI and x rays to see if my prexsisting condition is worse because of the hit...or if it is 'just' whiplash of a sort. But each day I get worse, I loose work,..and I have nightmares of the accident EVERY night...so I am getting like 2 hrs sleep a night.I keep seeing the accident in my mightmares and I wake up screaming! THAT is not good! So..hopefully on Monday this doctor can find whatever is causing all my pain and fix it. Right now I am just on MILD drugs and it isnt helping. BUT MY policy covers MY medical..80% of it..the other 20% I get back from the other side once it is proven THEY hit me. So as I was told...consider the other side, the enemy...like it isnt another State Farm rep. and just hold on and wait for that report from the cop. And they get a copy and pray that cop wrote down the FACTS and it is found SHE is guilty..then that guy,who the truck belongs to,and the insurance is written to...is liable. And the bit-- that hit me is guilty and liable!!!. Till then. I just have to sit and wait. So it could be 1 more day..or 2 more weeks! However long it takes for the report to get into the Broward county police system. So here I wait. Once I am proved right. I will spit in her face! :mad: And laugh!
Which is a better option? The $100/1000 dollar option is actually $40.00 cheaper per 6months so $80.00 cheaper for 1 yr. The insurance guy was saying people tend to use the comprehensive deductible more so the 100/1000 is a better deal, but most insurances only offer the 500/500 and 500 vs 1000 is a big difference for the collision.
Can someone please give me some advice.
Broward County. You know, there are a lot worse places to live.
Get a Police Report.
Get a Police Report.
Get a Police Report.
Bob
i don't know where you live, but a report should have been completed and filed by the end of the next business day following the accident.
It's going to be a long process, but hopefully in the end you will get a good settlement and be compensated for your pain, suffering, and mental anguish!!