Questions About Auto Insurance and Accidents

Kirstie_H

Has the insurance co. made you a settlement offer yet?

(it sometimes takes awhile for our data to be updated, even if you've reported an error. Sorry.)

brownie523

Hi, I just had a DV report done today for my car. I have a 2007 Toyota Camry XLE that sustained $16,400 worth of damage. The DV report says that the DV is only $5,000. On the report it says Market Area Wholesale is $15K and the appraisal is $17,500. The appraiser said that they dont take into consideration the options (i.e. Leather Seats, Navigation, Smart Key,etc.) when determining the DV. My car is fully loaded with every possible accessory you can get on a Camry. It's really hard to believe that a $30k car can sustain this much damage and the DV only be $5k? Anyone have any knowledge in theis area?? I'd appreaciate any help :confuse:

cccompson

$5000 in diminished value seems like a high number to me. Combining it with the amount of damage may well total the vehicle and should be what you should push for.

It may have stickered for 30K but you didn't pay that much and it was worth less than you paid when the crash happened.

joe131

My car was t-boned when a lady ran a red light. Damage plus rental plus diminished value made it a constructive total loss even though damage to vehicle was not enough to total it initially. It was a current model year car. That helped in getting the DV paid.
I had to push for it. Most companies fight paying anything for third party diminished value claims.

marsha7

Diminished Value is fairly generous, unless I am totally missing the point...I had a client whose Lexus SC430 was rear ended, fairly extensive damage, and Lexus valued his DV at $3,900 to $4,400...

As I see it, if the car is not a total loss, then DV simply makes up what your additional loss would be when you trade it in on another car and the dealer asks you, "Has the car ever been wrecked?"...and the obvious answer is yes...

A wreck does not mean the car has no value whatsoever, it means that its trade-in value (and eventual resale value) has been diminished due to the wreck...so, theoretically, the next buyer may buy it at a $4-5000 discount, knowing it has been wrecked but repaired...this may be a first car for a young adult...

Also keep in mind, the original buyer who bought it new believes his car has been "taken from him" because it is no longer a new car...but the next buyer, who test drives and believes the vehicle drives well, can maintain wheel alignment, may just be getting a bargain if the repairs were done properly...

We all complain about a bent frame, or "my new baby was damaged, and it just ain't the same", but the next buyer who buys the car with the knowledge of the wreck (I am assuming full disclosure, of course) and gets a dealer warranty, likes the way it drives, may consider it a cream puff...

It is possible, of course, that some repair shops can actuallu repair the vehicle quite professionally, even with a bent frame, and the car may be quite usable, yet we who saw it glisten when new may feel different...the next buyer may not feel that sentimental and may get quite a few good miles from the repaired car that YOU received the check for DV...

Just my random thoughts...

brownie523

Thanks all for your input! This is my first time going through all of this (and hopefully my last!)--just wanted to make sure the DV amound sounded OK. According to my attorney, it may be hard to recover anyways, but it's worth a try I guess :confuse:

user777

i'm really confused. with that amount of damage, why isn't the vehicle being totaled out by the ins. co?

joe131

If it costs less to repair a car than it would to pay for its replacement after subtracting salvage value, then it is not a total loss.
But sometimes an insurance company will also count amounts it might have to pay in the future when determining if it is a total loss. If it does, it makes it easier to total a car. Those could include supplemental repair costs (usually about 10% to 15% of the intitial repair estimate), diminished value and car rental. Some companies refuse to consider those, but others may. If a car is totalled this way it is called a constructive total loss.
The replacement cost of a vehicle can often be negotiated somewhat with the insurance company. If you can show good evidence why your vehicle was special, and worth more than what appearances would indicate, then you might be able to get a higher total loss offer. But you don't want to do too good a job doing that because if yours is a borderline total, you just might convince the company that they should not total it at all.
If you have a third party injury claim against the company's insured, and if you can afford the wait, you may want to settle the property damage claim along with the injury claim.

user777

thanks. i thought there was a threshold - perhaps 80 or so percent of the value. if the repair amount is above that threshold, it's typical to have it totalled.

repair shops know this, and often asymptotically approach this figure...

aljohns

Hi,

my wife rear-ended another car today; it was very minor, our car has nothing; the other car had some bumper scratches, but those can still cost many 100$$$.
I let the other driver know that he should let me know how much it costs before filing a claim with our insurance, so that we can pay him directly if it isn't too much. We're insured with Allstate in CA, two cars, never been in an at-fault accident. We pay $763 for 6 mo. We haven't signed up in any accident forgiveness program.

Now my question: How much do rates increase after an accident like this? Let's say damage is $1000. If they jack up our rate by $300, We'll pay more in 2 years than if I would settle w/o insurance.
What is your experience with this? Is there information about this on the web?

Thanks,
Al

cccompson

There's no way to tell given the variables between companies and policies.

IMHO, the issue is not how much your rates might go due to this accident. The real question is: what happens to rates the next time (whenever that might be)?

I buy insurance to protect me from a major loss. My wife has hit cars twice in parking lots in the past two years. Both times I paid the (small) damages out of pocket. Neither involved an insurance claim.

mikefm58

I believe for a small claim, your rates wouldn't go up at all. What that threshhold is I'm sure varies considerably between ins cos. I agree with the previous poster, pay small claims like this one out of pocket.

euphonium

Only because the other car was occupied I advise to report the crash to your company ASAP. If you don't and there are latent injuries surfacing, you may be obligated on those too. Taking care of little PD claims is one thing, but having to deal with Bodily Injuries down the road requires your company to be informed and advised ASAP.

joe131

Or even latent claims of injury.
I agree, better to let your company know ASAP. It is your obligation under your policy. They could deny coverage if you don't report it and then months later the other person comes up with neck and back injuries and makes a claim.
And if your premium increases, so be it.
What you could do is shop for a new company immediately and if you find one cheaper than Allstate, switch to it. Your accident will still be covered by Allstate, even if you change companies.

aljohns

Thanks for all the answers so far.

If I would settle without insurance, I would ask the other party to sign a general release from all liability (property or injury), like this one:
http://www.findlegalforms.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=19321&cat=556&page=1

I was more looking for your experiences in dealing with small damage insurance claims so I have some data points for my decision. I hope this forum is a good place to discover insurance company policies by comparing individual stories.

joe131

Yeah, the release is a good idea, but you'll only get one from people you pay. A year later another person may surface, claiming to be injured because of that accident. He might be lying, maybe he was not even in the car. But if he can get someone else to lie along with him as a witness, you may end up being responsible for paying him too.
If you don't report it to your company promptly, you assume the risk of having no coverage for the accident.

oldfarmer50

"...your experiences in dealing with small damage insurance claims..."

A few years ago I spun on ice and dented my bumper. I had collision so I filed a claim with my own carrier. The claim was for about $600. Upon renewal I saw my rates rise about $300 a year. This seemed a lot for a small claim (I had never filed a claim in over 10 years) so I called the carrier and asked how long would my rates be up by this amount.

Their response: "at least 3 years".

I asked why if they only paid out $600 they were raising my rates $900. "That's the way we do things" was the response. I cancelled my coverage the next day and went with someone else.

On the later liability issue. A friend's wife bumped the rear end of another car with minor scratches on the other car's bumper. No more than 5mph.

A year later she was sued by the other party for a million. The claim said the other driver had been totally disabled by the accident and had not worked in the past year.

joe131

So what was the outcome of that million dollar suit?
Was the other driver ever paid anything? If so, by whom?

In the U.S. anyone can sue anyone else for just about anything. Whether the court dismisses the suit or grants a judgment is what is important to most.

marsha7

is NOT the most important thing, at least not in the beginning...the most important thing, at least from most people's viewpoints, is how much were the attorney fees to defend the case in court???...most folks are unable to defend themselves, and in many states, any amount sued over, say $25K, reagrdless of the eventual judgment (if any), will take it out of magistrate court and into a court of record, with discovery, depositions, juries, etc.

Often, it is not the judgment that is so scary, but the fact that your insurance will pay the lawyers on an ongoing basis to defend you, whereas you could probably not afford to pay them on your own...

You are also assuming that they will sign a release...this was one of the rotten practices of the insurance industry not so long ago, getting you to sign a "full release" when your car was repaired...

At least in GA, TWO releases must be signed, one for PD and one for BI, and never the twain shall meet...

dtownfb

I was on the other end of a similar situation. We settled it without the insurance companies. Since your wife's accident was a rear end accident, definitely get a waiver signed. Most people are honest but sometimes you run into one that thinks this is their lottery. Personally I would not have a problem signing a paper like this since as long as the person was willing to pay to return my car to its pre-accident condition.

As long as the person is agreeable to signing the waiver, I would not report this to your insurance company. With the state of insurance nowadays, I would not give them a chance to raise your rates or cancel you. And quite honestly, depending on your deductible, this is the smart way of doing it. If you have a $500 or $1000 deductible and the total repair is $1500 and you can afford to pay out of pocket and no one was injured, why report to your insurance company???

joe131

Why report it?
Well, one reason is because you may be obligated to report it to your company. Check your insurance contract. You probably agreed to report accidents promptly. If you don't abide by your agreement, you could end up cancelled.

euphonium

The question involved Property Damage Liability of which there are NO deductible options. In a case of Collision damages, there are several deductibles available. Remember, Collision coverage applies to your vehicle while Property Damage Liability covers the damage to others for which you are liable.

mikefm58

At least in GA, TWO releases must be signed, one for PD and one for BI, and never the twain shall meet...

That's an excellent idea. I can really see a problem asking someone to sign a waiver for medical injuries, even for a minor fender bender.

mikefm58

Why report it?

I believe in the state of Florida and with State Farm here, law requires it to be reported if there are any injuries, not sure about any obligations in the policy though.

mikefm58

And we're suppossed to save, on average $316 a year. I'll be holding my breath.

marsha7

Here in GA, we switched from no-fault to fault in 1991, and it was under the guise of saving 10% on auto insurance...

All they did was take the mandatory PIP and convert it to optional medpay, and since medpay back then was about $40-50 and most folks with minimum limits (10/20/5 back then) would actually see their premiums go down about 10%

Of course, if you are now buying less insurance, of course it will cost less...since medpay, to me, is as mandatory as liability coberage, my premiums did not change...

Be careful what you wish for...you might get it...

mikefm58

Given the fact that (at least in Florida) there is a fairly high percentage of uninsured drivers, the ins cos should make out like a bandit. For example, my family has been hit several times in very minor accidents where the other driver was uninsured. Luckily there were no medical injuries and the damage was only a few hundred bucks, which I had to pay out of pocket. If there were injuries, then my car ins would have paid the medical bills because Florida was a no fault state. Now with it going to an at fault state, and the guilty driver not being insured, unless I had UIM protection, I would have to rely on my medical ins. to pay any medical bills.

joe131

In some (maybe all?) states an auto accident must be reported to the police if there is an injury.
I doubt if there is a law requiring a policyholder to report the accident to his insurance company. That is more likely to be a private contract obligation between the insured and the company.
If a person is not sure what his obligations are under the policy, he should contact the insurance company and find out before a regrettable mistake is made.

cccompson

There is a difference between notifying your insurance company about an accident and actually filing a claim.

In both recent situations involving my wife, my insurance company was notified of the fender-benders but no claim was made in either case as the damages were paid out of pocket.

joe131

Of course it is true that reporting an accident is not the same as filing a claim. So what? I don't think anyone would think they are the same.
But even if your company does not pay out $ on a claim, your premium may increase if it finds out you caused an accident.

marsha7

many (most) insurance contracts mandate that you notify them of any accidents (almost always within 30 days unless you are in a coma) is simply because THEY are insuring you and may have to pay out damages if a claim is made against you, or, may have to pay lawyers to defend you even if you are without fault...

Numerous policies that I have read state that failure to notify them within the prescribed period of time will relieve them of any responsibility to defend you or pay damages on your behalf...

So, failure to notify them of a collision may leave you on your own to pay for everything...while every little fender bender does not cause injuries, some folks develop pain overnight (very common...most do NOT feel pain immediately or within a few hours of the trauma, as the numbness of the shock prevents that), but each party has already gone home...

You, thinking the damages are only $700, do not report the collision...the party who felt pain the next day starts going for treatment...they receive $4,000 in physical therapy over the next 4 months...then, they seek an atty like me who sends a letter to the insurance, asking for the claim number, and I mail them a copy of the police report (I assume that police were called, if not, oh well)...the insurance rightfully states that they never received notification of any collision...can they refuse to pay after 4 months???...yes...now what do YOU do???

You have caused the injury, you thought you could save $100 on your premiums, and now you may owe thousands of $$$ in medical bills, pain and suffering, lost wages, and the time consuming process of defending yourself in court, since it is unlikely you know how to conduct discovery and depositions...

Just like going without medpay and U/M, you are taking a great financial risk by not reporting the collision, no matter how minor...ESPECIALLY IF A POLICE REPORT WAS MADE AND YOU ARE LISTED AS THE AT FAULT DRIVER...paying for minor property damage is usually the smallest part of any collision...

Without a police report, you COULD always deny that the collision ever took place, but members of Edmunds that post here would NEVER do the unethical thing, you WOULD admit it immediately, so you would now be financially responsible for damages...

It is quite reasonable for your insurance to contract with you to notify them within 30 days...more than ample time...and it allows them to set up reserves for the damages...

Frankly, to NOT notify them is foolhardy, as few folks can pay for all those monetary damages themselves out of pocket, and, remember...the person who is not injured at the scene may be quite injured whn they get home and the shock and numbness of the trauma wear off and they sense the full extent of their injuries...

Don't be stupid...report it and take the premium increase like an adult, for once, and stop shirking responsibility...

This advice does not apply to Donald Trump, Bill Gates, and Warren Buffet, who not only could afford to pay the damages, they can probably afford to buy the insurance company out of petty cash...:):):):):)

joe131

Well said marsha7! That makes it all very clear.
Nice expansion on my previous post. Your statements reflect my thoughts; I was just a little too lazy to spell it all out.

marsha7

It's...what I do.....

dtownfb

Well I have already had 3 fender bender (one my wife's fault, the other 2 someone backed into us) that I did not report. There was also no police report as the fault was obvious. NO injuries, all paid out of pocket (less then $1000). Again the key thing is no injuries!!! I understand (and respect) what you and marsha7 are saying since you both do this all day every day. But to me if this can be settled without the insurance companies, why involve them? If notifying them about the accident is not the same as filing a claim, then the OP should do that just to cover his posterior.

I do not trust insurance companies or politicians.

marsha7

I appreciate your position...you continue to state no injuries...if one is TRULY CERTAIN there are no injuries, then property damage is all that needs to be paid for, and you are correct...

But I believe that readers should know that that strategy can backfire BADLY, if everyone who is "not injured" wakes up the next day, quite painful (and quite legitimately), incurs medical treatment, and you are now on the hook for it...

My way is the prudent way, simply because I see those who are injured, where the pain started 2-3 days later...

Your way, while quite legitimate, can be risky, simply because at the time of collision, and within the nexy 3-5 hours, people who may not feel injured can be injured and they will feel it later...

It is my position to recommend the prudent route to readers, so they understand the risks of not doing so...since you are quite willing to take the risk, I say go for it, but I will NEVER recommend that as a prudent strategy...

Kinda like seat belts...I believe they should be worn as a safety factor, regardless of the law...many folks do not wear them and will brag how they never suffered injuries in wrecks...can it happen???...of course...is that the prudent thing to do???...absolutely not...

joe131

Not only the legitimate late occurring injuries, but fraudulent claims may be made against you too. If they are, you'll wish you had your insurance company to defend or settle those claims.
If you don't report the accident promptly, your company may deny coverage.

oldfarmer50

"...so what was the outcome of that million dollar suit?..."

My friend said that her insurance "settled" with the other driver but would not tell him for how much. I guess that is typical.

dtownfb

As I mentioned in my post, even if someone came back 2-3 days later with pain, you still have time to report the accident to your insurance company. Simply explain to your agent that accident occurred x days ago and how you tried to handle it without making a claim but the other person is complaining about back pain. We are not talking about days here. It takes weeks for a body shop to do repairs (possibly months for a busy shop).

I understand that you want to warn everyone about doing it the right way. Like I said, you deal with it daily, I don't. I truly appreciate that. I may be a bit naive. Either way, I think we have covered this topic thoroughly.

NEXT!!!!

joe131

Pain may not show up until a few days after the accident. That is not the problem. The problem is when you don't report the accident, and the other person develops an injury (or gathers documentation which appears to indicate an injury) and then makes a claim months or even a year or more AFTER the accident occurred. By then, you may have put your company at a serious disadvantage in its investigation of the accident and injuries by not reporting the accident promptly. In that case you deserve a denial of coverage by your insurance company.

euphonium

If you liked the way the government handled the TB scare,
you’re gonna love national health care."

dtownfb

Is it necessary to keep beating a dead horse????

dtownfb

Let's not even talk about politics.... Political debates 16 months before the election. Like their positions won't change 3 times before the Nov. 2008 elections.

mikefm58

I know this is off topic and I apologize to our gracious Hosts, so if they feel the need to delete my post, then they can go ahead.

But dtownfb, do you always like to control the dicsussions? You told joe131 to stop posting as he was beating a dead horse. And you told euphonium not to post on politics. Both of those posters have contributed greatly to these fora with some very knowledgeable information.

Anyone is free to post additional opinions on any topic, if you don't like what they're saying, then just scroll past them.

tidester

if you don't like what they're saying, then just scroll past them.

Good advice! Now let's all get back on topic.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

dtownfb

Yeah mikefm58, I love controlling discussions.

My reference to "beating a dead horse" was that I had already succumb to marsha7 that he was in fact right about the advice he gave to the OP. I didn't agree with all of it but for this type of forum his is the most advisable. I would choose to handle this particular situation differently but I understand the risk I was taking. Bob131's post, which was written right as I was posting mine, reiterated about pain and injury showing up days after an injury was "beating a dead horse". In other words the dead horse was me, not the topic. I'm sorry I did not make that clearer in my post. i will try to do that next time so I don't accused of "controlling" a topic.

I apologize to both bob131 or marsha7.

euphonium

Perhaps "dtownfb" translates to 'Downtown Female Blond'

Now don't get your panties in a knot, I just see humor all over this place.

marsha7

Or, "if you think health care is expensive now, wait until it is 'free' under national health care"...:):):)

tidester

Now, now!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

dtownfb

You're killing me euphonium. :sick:

user777

i'm sorry, i must have missed something. if you both drive away without a police report being made, how can someone submit a claim against another person?